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edit - double post
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May 10, 2023 21:37
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 16:30 |
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Talk about bad faith but hey, that's Escobarbarian for you.
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May 10, 2023 21:38
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josh04 posted:Starblade!!! It was! Man of Steel was way better
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May 10, 2023 21:45
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I will say the first viewing of the theatrical cut felt a bit "unmoored" due to the fast editing where they cut a lot of establishing shots and breathing room. On second viewing I appreciated it a lot more because I "got" the whole idea that the editor was carrying through the dream-like logic of the first few sequences into the first half of the movie, this appropriately ends right after Bruce awakes from his Knightmare. I could also see the Ultimate cut feeling a little bloated and long, it's definitely not as majestically cut as ZSJL where it feels shorter than it is. My preferred cut is somewhere between the theatrical and Ultimate cut, probably closest to perfection is the KWaste cut.
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May 10, 2023 21:50
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Escobarbarian posted:What do you lads think about this quote Lol what a wretched website, makes iO9 look readable Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I don't believe there's any world where the Theatrical version did well. The Ultimate, if pitched properly as a "blockbuster epic", might have made it. Maybe. Theatrical did well money wise. It busted that block good! While I enjoy some of the stuff ultimate adds back in theatrical is superior because it's more ambiguous and dream like
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May 10, 2023 21:50
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As tech cult of personalities take over and online propaganda spreads, my love for BvS grows. Quote is right though: BvS remains the most interesting super hero film for me. I think I like Man of Steel more, but BvS has got this intriguing depth. I mean just compare it to avengers civil war… Also reminds me I need to finally buy the BvS 4K.
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May 10, 2023 21:58
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Mr. Apollo posted:Yeah, he's saying "I made a movie this way but it the majority of audiences wanted their superhero movies made that way.". This should not be left at the bottom of the last page Because it's a very true statement
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May 10, 2023 22:00
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Escobarbarian posted:What do you lads think about this quote I think it's very funny because I've seen a lot of responses along the lines of "It's very arrogant of Zack to say I disliked the movie because I didn't understand it, I understood it fine, it's just a bad movie!", but that's not what he actually said. So they didn't understand (or even read) the full quote, then got mad at him for it. And honestly, that's Snyder Discourse (tm) in a nutshell. But I'll echo teagones question, Esco. What did you think of the quote. Guy A. Person posted:With the added context he's even more magnanimous and literally saying "I did a kind of out there deconstruction of a super hero movie and most people just wanted something light and fun" which is literally what people who hate BvS say when they describe it as "grimdark" and say Gunn is going to save the DCEU by making it more fun. Right, the vast majority of negative reviews at the time complained about the tone and how "dark and dour" it was, and contrasted it with the fun MCU movies. Like, the vast majority of criticism against the film I've seen is about howr they're upset the movie deviated from their expectations or wishes (Superman doesn't smile enough, they wanted the movie to be more "fun" like the Worlds Finest animated thing, Batman killing, etc) Jimbot posted:The elaborate "lead-lined" wheelchair stuff in the Director's Cut isn't something I liked. I flip-flopped over that part but settled on "could have done without it". It has the unfortunate side effect of Superman using his xray vision willy-nilly. Like he's inherently suspicious of people. Him not seeing it because he chose to believe the man was there in good faith is a better reading. Yeah I hate that scene too, it's clearly just there to pre-empt nerds wondering why he didn't immediately see the bomb with his x-ray vision. Kinda like the whole "I've seen millions of timelines" bit with Dr Strange. Supermans explanation is way better, he didn't see it because he wasn't looking for it. That's way more elegant.
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May 10, 2023 23:07
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Escobarbarian posted:What do you lads think about this quote People who can appreciate BvS are not just more intellectual, but more importantly, far more good looking and hang out with the hottest guys.
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May 10, 2023 23:22
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KVeezy3 posted:People who can appreciate BvS are not just more intellectual, but more importantly, far more good looking and hang out with the hottest guys. Sso tru
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May 10, 2023 23:23
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Escobarbarian posted:What do you lads think about this quote Dogshit. Was the article written by chatgpt or something? Are people willing to tolerate this kind of writing for brand gossip? Good god
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May 10, 2023 23:25
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teagone posted:What do you think about it? I think that while ultimate cut ain’t too bad calling it layered or a movie you really have to think about to “get” is pretty laughable Mr. Apollo posted:I think Greg Silverman said it nicely: This is kinda silly and conspiratorial at best and laughable at worst. Is that really still the kind of discourse we’re having? “He isn’t taken seriously as a valuable auteur because he’s nice”?
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May 11, 2023 00:01
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What’s the issue with calling BvS layered? Sure saying you didn’t like it because you didn’t think enough may not be accurate, but I see no issues with saying a movie that’s draws a lot from Arthurian legends and post 9/11 and Iraq hysteria layered.
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May 11, 2023 00:04
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There’s a lot of pieces to the puzzle but it’s not complicated to get. It’s like inception in that way. I’m talkin ultimate.
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May 11, 2023 00:06
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Zack Snyder is 100% correct and Escobarbarian is 100% wrong
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May 11, 2023 00:08
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Escobarbarian posted:I think that while ultimate cut ain’t too bad calling it layered or a movie you really have to think about to “get” is pretty laughable This is a totally meaningless statement. Not layered at all.
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May 11, 2023 00:09
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KVeezy3 posted:This is a totally meaningless statement. Not layered at all. Ah, just like Beavis Ultimate, then
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May 11, 2023 00:10
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Honestly sometimes getting something doesn’t mean you didn’t understand it, it just means you didn’t get what it was throwing down. I don’t think the people who hate BvS got what it was doing.
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May 11, 2023 00:11
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checkplease posted:What’s the issue with calling BvS layered? I think the term applies more to the way a movie approaches themes rather than just it having the most surface-level metaphorical version of them, which was my personal take on the ideas BvS was touching on. Like the term “layers” implies depth, right?
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May 11, 2023 00:11
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RBA Starblade posted:Ah, just like Beavis Ultimate, then Go chat with Leon
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May 11, 2023 00:11
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Escobarbarian posted:pretty laughable Man what a fun and amusing day for you 
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May 11, 2023 00:12
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"BvS is a layered movie" Esco: I don't think so "Why not it's got a good amount to say" Esco: Yeah but I don't think so. No I will not elaborate. Excellent conversation. MZ goldmine this thread NOW
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May 11, 2023 00:15
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But I did elaborate. Roth, I know you literally poo poo yourself with fury every time I vaguely post in your vicinity, but I very clearly just elaborated.
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May 11, 2023 00:16
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Roth posted:Go chat with Leon Maybe later
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May 11, 2023 00:19
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Escobarbarian posted:But I did elaborate. Roth, I know you literally poo poo yourself with fury every time I vaguely post in your vicinity, but I very clearly just elaborated. You merely repeated that it's surface level without explaining what makes it surface level. That's not an elaboration that's a different wording you numbskull.
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May 11, 2023 00:21
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Escobarbarian posted:Like the term “layers” implies depth, right? I mean it implies a depth of a least 2 I suppose. I feel like there's a trap here and that you are using "depth" as a way to refute what he is saying by daring people to argue that some shallow summer blockbuster had "depth" but what checkplease is saying scans: if the "layers" are simply "Superman is like Arthurian Legend" and "the battle in Metropolis was like 9/11" then that is more than a single layer to each of those ideas.
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May 11, 2023 00:22
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Esco please share your analysis of BvS and how it is a shallow exploration of the themes it brings up. Only then will you have my permission to post without having a Snyder gangtag forced on you.
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May 11, 2023 00:25
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Guy A. Person posted:I mean it implies a depth of a least 2 I suppose. I feel like there's a trap here and that you are using "depth" as a way to refute what he is saying by daring people to argue that some shallow summer blockbuster had "depth" but what checkplease is saying scans: if the "layers" are simply "Superman is like Arthurian Legend" and "the battle in Metropolis was like 9/11" then that is more than a single layer to each of those ideas. Technically, but he also pairs it with saying it was a movie you “really needed to pay attention to”, and it’s not like the two are meant to be separate points, right? Like he is stating it’s layered in a way that required thought and analysis, which I personally don’t agree with. If a movie is meant to be thematically biblical and has a shot that echoes The Last Supper, that shot in itself doesn’t inherently mean it’s layered the biblical themes in an thoughtful way. To me, that’s how the themes in BvS come across. “The Arthurian legends are mythological and about heroes, and so is the story of Superman” is valid, but I personally don’t think just pointing that out and doing nothing further with it makes a movie smart, but it seems from (the full version of, not just the twitter post) that quote that Snyder does, and it’s certainly not the first place I’ve seen that take. I think it’s fair to refute. His point about thinking the movie was divisive because people were going in expecting a romp and didn’t enjoy getting this instead, although I personally don’t think that’s the case, is at least something I can understand. But when he elaborates further he loses me. Hopefully this explains my point properly and can quell the complaints of the people thinking I’m just here to kick up a fuss or whatever 
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May 11, 2023 00:32
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Right I don’t think BvS has Lynch depth or anything, but I do see it as having more than most super hero films. Which does go back to Synders main point that it may be an outlier. Obviously you can dislike the film for other reasons too including it’s ridiculous title.
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May 11, 2023 00:33
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Roth posted:Zack Snyder is 100% correct and Escobarbarian is 100% wrong  Escobarbarian posted:I think the term applies more to the way a movie approaches themes rather than just it having the most surface-level metaphorical version of them, which was my personal take on the ideas BvS was touching on. Like the term “layers” implies depth, right? So what exactly makes it surface-level? What would you define as depth? Did you want a 3 hour deep dive on the iraq war but with Superman? Like, what's the frame of reference here? Edit: Oh, i was a bit too slow writing this McCloud fucked around with this message at 00:35 on May 11, 2023 |
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May 11, 2023 00:33
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Please, you can't fight in here. This is the Snyderdome!
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May 11, 2023 00:37
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Escobarbarian posted:I think that while ultimate cut ain’t too bad calling it layered or a movie you really have to think about to “get” is pretty laughable Well, when compared to its contemporaries of the time, the level of engagement BvS asks of its audiences is much higher than like The Lego Batman movie. And Snyder's quote is less about "getting" it, and leans far more towards "appreciating" it imo. Snyder never says what the audiences want (a superhero romp that's doesn't require a lot of effort to be entertained) is like bad, it's just that he explicitly had a clear goal of trying to make something more than what you might typically expect from the genre, and is lamenting that audiences responded poorly for deciding to go that route.
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May 11, 2023 00:40
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Escobarbarian posted:Technically, but he also pairs it with saying it was a movie you “really needed to pay attention to”, and it’s not like the two are meant to be separate points, right? Like he is stating it’s layered in a way that required thought and analysis, which I personally don’t agree with. If a movie is meant to be thematically biblical and has a shot that echoes The Last Supper, that shot in itself doesn’t inherently mean it’s layered the biblical themes in an thoughtful way. To me, that’s how the themes in BvS come across. “The Arthurian legends are mythological and about heroes, and so is the story of Superman” is valid, but I personally don’t think just pointing that out and doing nothing further with it makes a movie smart, but it seems from (the full version of, not just the twitter post) that quote that Snyder does, and it’s certainly not the first place I’ve seen that take. I think it’s fair to refute. The bolded statement came from people noticing some visual references to 1981's Excalibur. The biggest ones were Batman's kryptonite spear having a similar green glow to the titular sword, and Superman (King Arthur) sacrificing his life to defeat the armored abomination Doomsday (Mordred).
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May 11, 2023 00:46
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teagone posted:Well, when compared to its contemporaries of the time, the level of engagement BvS asks of its audiences is much higher than like The Lego Batman movie. And Snyder's quote is less about "getting" it, and leans far more towards "appreciating" it imo. Snyder never says what the audiences want (a superhero romp that's doesn't require a lot of effort to be entertained) is like bad, it's just that he explicitly had a clear goal of trying to make something more than what you might typically expect from the genre, and is lamenting that audiences responded poorly for deciding to go that route. I guess I don’t even think the concept of a superhero movie with more then zero thought behind it was that unique at the time, I guess. I mean The Dark Knight was beloved despite some pretty overt contemporary political subtext (not a commentary on that subtext at all, just noting that it’s there). Basically I think a lot of this is trying to put the blame for the movie’s lack of success in this way on the inherent concept, the fact he even tried to do it to begin with, instead of just not liking the way he did it, which is my personal take on things. And I’m saying this as someone who was kinda into the ultimate cut!
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May 11, 2023 00:51
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Escobarbarian posted:Technically, but he also pairs it with saying it was a movie you “really needed to pay attention to”, and it’s not like the two are meant to be separate points, right? Like he is stating it’s layered in a way that required thought and analysis, which I personally don’t agree with. If a movie is meant to be thematically biblical and has a shot that echoes The Last Supper, that shot in itself doesn’t inherently mean it’s layered the biblical themes in an thoughtful way. To me, that’s how the themes in BvS come across. “The Arthurian legends are mythological and about heroes, and so is the story of Superman” is valid, but I personally don’t think just pointing that out and doing nothing further with it makes a movie smart, but it seems from (the full version of, not just the twitter post) that quote that Snyder does, and it’s certainly not the first place I’ve seen that take. I think it’s fair to refute. He's saying that you get more out of the movie if you engage a bit with it. Like the spear for instance. Most obviously, it works as a reference to the spear of longinus, which makes Superman into a messiah character and Batman into Longinus, the roman soldier who was blind but got his eyesight back when the blood of jesus splashed on him, and then became a devout believer, which then carries into JL in a big way. It also plays into Batmans delusion about being a St George-esque knight/hunter figure out to slay what he thinks is an evil dragon. And it also works as a reference to the sword as alexander that was used to cut the gordian knot, Batman uses violence to get rid of an intractable problem, except that the sword of alexander we saw earlier in the movie is a fake, just like Batmans solution to the gordian knot is ultimately proven false. And then the sword of alexander is also a punny reference to Batman himself, because Luthor manipulates Batman into becoming his weapon/sword and into acting against Superman And this is just about the stupid spear. And the threads tie into other threads! The messiah thing ties into the perception of Superman as god and supermans obvious discomfort at being deified which ties into his bluecollar immigrant background which ties into class war against billionaires which ties into Silicon Valley dorks using media as a weapon which ties into etc etc etc etc. There's alot of stuff you can dig into here and I personally can talk about this forever, because BvS is a real clever movie in that way. You might not consider it "deep" but it sure as hell is layered. McCloud fucked around with this message at 00:57 on May 11, 2023 |
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May 11, 2023 00:54
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Equeen posted:The bolded statement came from people noticing some visual references to 1981's Excalibur. The biggest ones were Batman's kryptonite spear having a similar green glow to the titular sword, and Superman (King Arthur) sacrificing his life to defeat the armored abomination Doomsday (Mordred). The whole Martha scene also plays out similar to Arthur fighting and using Excalibur to defeat Lancelot. He then realizes his error and throws Excalibur back into the lake, same with the kryptonite spear. Doomsday functions like mordred yeah in that he is kind of Superman’s son and sin also. Lex orchestrates all this similar to Morgana. There’s more I’m sure as after all Synder loves Excalibur. But I think the post 9/11 aspects have more to say, especially with politics today.
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May 11, 2023 00:57
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Of course, I just wanted to point out that Guy A. bringing up Arthurian legend regarding BvS’s themes didn’t come from nowhere.
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May 11, 2023 01:03
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Oh yeah just having fun adding more references
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May 11, 2023 01:05
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Some cool posts up in here! I definitely get what you all are going for now. I still don’t agree that it’s why the movie was considered a failure and I will always have major qualms with that way of thinking but I can happily admit the comparisons and metaphors go deeper than I was aware of.
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May 11, 2023 01:09
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 16:30 |
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Without the walls of a dome, we can have peace.
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May 11, 2023 01:11
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