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Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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CelticPredator posted:

The JL stream was one of my favorite things ever

I was really sorry to miss out on that one, but I did catch BvS.

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Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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McCloud posted:

lol retroactively beaten, Teagone

That's how they beat Darkseid.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Alexander Hamilton posted:

I still think nerds were just mad that Batman isn’t cool in BvS. Switch Wonder Woman & Batman’s roles and people would have been fine with it.

There is definitely a current in fandom thought where being evil is simply playing the heel while being seen as embarrassing/cringe/awkward-but-not-in-the-cute-way is unforgivable, and Batman is often embarrassed in BvS.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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McSpanky posted:

[citation needed]

[By who?]

It is worth remembering that, despite whatever drama from whichever fans, Beevis pulled around 870 million at the box office and was the top selling bluray for a goodly while (iirc). That's more than either of the first two GotG films or any of the Thor movies.

"People on twitter were obnoxious about it" is not an indicator of success or failure!

(As DC would come to learn to their peril...)

Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 19:26 on May 11, 2023

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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It's going to be the movie the Sony hacked emails wrote.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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McCloud posted:

It also directly led to elon making a 420 joke about buying twitter which, unfortunately for all of is, apparently was legally binding

That's only unfortunate because he's managed to keep the drat thing on life support instead of killing it.


McCloud posted:

Wake up, new details dropping

https://twitter.com/VanityFair/status/1666069807341400065?t=vBnQ1iytuUAaB5IkuIxyPQ&s=19

I love everything about this. The characters all look amazing, the story sounds interesting and you know it's going to have that Snyder flair

Cant wait for December

lol, Sofia Boutella in a field of wheat is gonna be catnip to the haters.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Grendels Dad posted:

Superman is Dracula because he has a bitching cape and has a special relationship to the sun.

...Does Lois know about this special relationship?

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Nowadays comic book super heroes are thought of as their own distinct thing but it is useful not to forget that they're a straight progression of pulp stories, penny dreadfuls, and such.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Only Kindness posted:

OK, let's take that onboard and have like 7.29% less Krypton and lean less into mythology, say by 5.68%.

What changes, "io9" (if that's even your real name)?

Before I provide an answer: is Kurt Angle added to this mix?

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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a diablo miniseries would just be netflix castlevania but worse

it brings me no joy to say this

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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FilthyImp posted:

Then, absent of any agency or hope for higher purpose, the Krytponians are more aptly described as homunculi?

Funnily enough, I think MOS has enough material that you could make this argument sincerely.

It'd be a little misanthropic, but it could be done.

Halloween Jack posted:

No, Kryptonians aren't created by jerking off into a container full of rotten garbage.

Our boy Zack kept the film respectable, but we all know what's going on with those clone machines!

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Part of me really wants to watch Dollhouse since it seems to share so much with Sucker Punch, but drat — do I really want to watch twenty-six 45 minute episodes just to satisfy that curiosity?

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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shoeberto posted:

trying to put a super serious coat of paint on something that conceptually still feels pretty campy

yeah it owns

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:

We're in an aesthetic moment right now that's been termed "comfy" or "cozy" and the Snyderverse really doesn't get anywhere near that until ZSJL. The first two movies are not comforting films. They treat the audience like an adult who can handle the fact that "the world ain't all sunshine and rainbows" and that Superman, while awesomely powerful, can't really do much about systemic corruption. Things will not be ok. You, the viewer, will have to tackle that. That denies escapism and is not a comforting thought, but it's a far cry from "grimdark" - the fact that certain people reacted so strongly is instructive.

I think this is right on the money. One of the most common elements in Snyder's films is how having and exercising power is either unpleasant or somehow fraught. There's an emphasis on how it makes a person culpable.

Similarly, as much as Snyder's work get derided as propaganda for whatever right wing bugbear, the bigger complaint is that his work isn't didactic — and that's bad!

Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Jul 28, 2023

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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I wonder how much of it was the MCU specifically and how much was the assumption that since ZS's films made money but were also kind of love-them-or-hate-them, that a more middle-of-the-road approach would be more profitable.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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I can't believe Zack Snyder supports Zeon.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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RBA Starblade posted:

Mark Hamil was there too!

Huh? The voice actor from Wizards?

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Xealot posted:

I mean, yeah, the reasons are "these are the themes present in this story."

Now that I think about it, that kind of thing tends to happen a lot in fictional stories...

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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A lot of the mid '10s turn on Snyder came down to exactly how disturbing he portrays violence. The moralizing is downstream of that discomfort.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Ghost Leviathan posted:

The hyper-stylisation and intensity is key to that. Especially in a cinema environment, the action scenes and setpieces are almost overwhelming, designed to make a strong impact. That works both for making it scary AND making it cool.

In the same sense that comedy and horror are often two sides of the same coin, so are trauma and coolness. Every toddler who cries at the Night at Bald mountain segment in Fantasia goes on to remember it as their favorite.

Turpitude posted:

Writing this just made me realise that my favorite Silver Surfer story from back in the day also features that hero being forced to kill a genocidal psycho. I guess having all this power, trying to be a pacifist and do the right thing, and then being forced to kill has resonated with me since I was a kid. Sometimes you just have to kill these assholes and it sucks but that is part of being a godlike entity

Haus of Decline's Steven Universe vs Hitler comic really cut to the quick on that discourse.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Ghost Leviathan posted:

Also says something given one of his established backstory moments is writing an essay in school defending the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Rorschach becomes an increasingly better person throughout the comic, and that's why he needed to be killed.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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AccountSupervisor posted:

And yeah from what Ive gathered it seems once again they made the mistake of not just letting the full vision/directors cut be the standard cut.

:lol: that every Snyder film is like this.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Like, you really do have to hand it to the man for being a success while having an approach that's repeatedly proven completely antithetical to studio limits.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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"Grim dark" has been taken to mean approximately five hundred things over the years but lets not forget the term comes from a Warhammer 40k tag line.

"It looks like Warhammer 40k" is one of the original meanings of the term.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Ferrinus posted:

The season finale was bonkers. Is it part of the Snyder canon and therefore appropriate for discussion in this thread? Well, if we look to Barthes,

Rebel Moons is taking some inspiration from the King Arthur stories, right? We might see a Le Morte d' yet!

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Tea Party Crasher posted:

When people start discussing The Last Jedi I feel like an alcoholic at a party where everyone else is drinking. Be cool tea party, everybody else can handle it but you, just go outside where you won't be tempted. You know it's tempting but it's not worth it

You bet your rear end when my friends talk about Star Wars/Star Trek/MCU/Snyder/whatever nerd property I shut my rear end up. There's a time and a place for vomiting up my heinous nerd opinions and that's this website.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Halloween Jack posted:

The difference between Moore's and Snyder's take on Rorschach is simply that Snyder has sympathy for him.

I can't find the quote off hand, but didn't Neil Gaiman once report that Alan Moore cried after killing Rorschach off?

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Fangz posted:

The other way round. Rorschach wants nuclear Armageddon to be back on the table. Even Manhattan refuses to accept the atrocity that would ensue if Rorschach would be allowed to live. That's why he kills him.

The entire story is really about the value of humans as compromised, flawed, unexpected individuals. As the one that ultimately rejects that part of himself, Rorschach is the villain of the story. Even Veidt is humanised by his doubts at the end. Rorschach is turned into a bloody smear once he makes the Never Compromise speech because to Manhattan, the objective observer, he's just not that interesting any more.

turning a big dial taht says "Genocide" on it and constantly look back at god for approval like a contestant on the price is right

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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I loving love that his dilz is the sun.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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well why not posted:

[getting the old razzledazzle eight times consecutively] I am studying his limitations

[lying face down in a puddle of my own blood and spit] download complete

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Admiral Noble is the kind of person who wants to come across as a person like Zod.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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SuperMechagodzilla posted:

Zack Snyder’s Mutant League Football, obviously.

I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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No Luck Needed posted:

the scifi elements were more warhammer 40k than heavy metal

I cannot possibly overemphasize how much WH 40k cribs from Heavy Metal.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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The Creator was loving excellent.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:

That was the exact moment that I loved the movie. "Oh, the West doesn't use AI!" (except for the suicide bombers)

I loved the machine at the airport where it was clearly just a robot person but without limbs or a head. Absolutely twisted poo poo that the characters don't give a second thought to.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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No Luck Needed posted:

the joe rogan podcast is comedy gold, Zack Snyder says that batman and superman should kill and "put his stank" on those films. Wonder why they did so bad?

BvS was a tremendous hit that earned just shy of a billion dollars.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:

This is literally how a nine year old thinks. It's ok if they beat people down, send them to the hospital, smash their teeth out, take the law into their own hand...they didn't kill. This entire perspective is incredibly childish, it's what they were banking on when they invented these codes back in the 40s.

Nine year olds have their action figures kill each other all the time when they're not gunning their friends down in Destiny 2 or whatever is hot now. "Heroes don't kill" is a marketer angle to get their product past parent watch groups. It's CCA poo poo.

Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Mar 12, 2024

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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https://twitter.com/hausofdecline/status/1647604800329072642

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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CelticPredator posted:

I wish man of steel had an actual epilogue to the final battle instead of that stupid drone scene.

I still don’t like it but as far as destruction complaints that would’ve gone a long way. He did a perfect one in watchmen where you see the city being rebuilt in the distance and that’s enough

Yeah, I don't think MoS needs a Snyder style extra 30 minute cut but an extra 3 might tighten the experience.

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Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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McCloud posted:

God forbid that Clark Kent feels apprehensive about wielding absolute power

One of the earlier moments that suggested that the Snyder hatedom may have lost the plot was seeing a bunch of nominally progressive folk decrying how the autistic-coded Clark doesn't smile enough.

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