The WGA and SAG-AFTRA Strike 2023-?

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > The WGA and SAG-AFTRA Strike 2023-?

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Maxwell Lord: Dec 12, 2008; I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.; Grimey Drawer

I mean that is how long the 1980 strike lasted, as well as the 2007 WGA strike.

# ? Jul 14, 2023 09:36

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# ? May 5, 2024 18:31

Confusedslight: Jan 9, 2020

It will last 6 months.

# ? Jul 14, 2023 09:38

cant cook creole bream: Aug 15, 2011; I think Fahrenheit is better for weather

It's actually already over for weeks. Ever since then, they're just filming a larger scale documentary about the events. Nobody told Fran Dresher.

cant cook creole bream fucked around with this message at 11:06 on Jul 14, 2023

# ? Jul 14, 2023 10:56

Drunkboxer: Jun 30, 2007

Hollismason posted:

Okay go ahead and post how long you think the strike will last. My guess 6 weeks. Also you should rename the thread.

2.5 years

# ? Jul 14, 2023 10:59

Pigbuster: Sep 12, 2010; Fun Shoe

Hollismason posted:

Okay go ahead and post how long you think the strike will last. My guess 6 weeks. Also you should rename the thread.

never, movies are over, we're free

# ? Jul 14, 2023 11:05

egon_beeblebrox: Mar 1, 2008; WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.

Pigbuster posted:

never, movies are over, we're free

Finally

# ? Jul 14, 2023 11:33

McSpanky: Jan 16, 2005

Nucleic Acids posted:

https://twitter.com/DEADLINE/status/1679533243299684365

The Hollywood pres corp has always been in the tank for management, but they are not even trying to hide it anymore.

This was deleted, what did it say? (Screenshot your twitter dirt!)

# ? Jul 14, 2023 11:46

Pirate Jet: May 2, 2010

McSpanky posted:

This was deleted, what did it say? (Screenshot your twitter dirt!)

It was a clip from Deadline of Matt Damon talking about how the strike will be tough times and his own production company has had to shut down a movie already, but it was selectively edited to leave out his comments about how the strike is still necessary and he sides with the actors and writers.

# ? Jul 14, 2023 13:11

happyhippy: Feb 21, 2005; Playing games, watching movies, owning goons. 'sup; Pillbug

SilentChaz posted:

https://twitter.com/yayforzig/status/1679502095244996609 (This was the easiest tweet to find from a writer in response to what Iger said. I know there are others.)

I googled 'residual check' and still am confused.
Is this the only payment they will ever get for this, or are they periodically like yearly or such?

# ? Jul 14, 2023 13:47

TrixRabbi: Aug 20, 2010; Time for a little robot chauvinism!

Maxwell Lord posted:

Yeah I think specifically it's SAG striking that means they can't do promotion work, maybe they see it as more part of the job (which makes sense.)

This was also what Drescher's response to the picture of her with Kim Kardashian: she was working. She was getting paid to be there, under contract, doing influencer work for a company. If your job is being an actor, then that poo poo is your work. A great gig if you can get it, but it's a job nonetheless. I'm inclined to agree with her, especially after that speech she gave declaring the strike.

happyhippy posted:

I googled 'residual check' and still am confused.
Is this the only payment they will ever get for this, or are they periodically like yearly or such?

Residuals are supposed to be periodical, not sure how frequent, but that's going to dwindle down to literal pennies over time as the show ages and only makes occasional income. So this is in theory the big check when the show is still hot and bringing in income.

Of course, the biggest issue here is -- She-Hulk is a streaming exclusive show. And no one but a select group of people inside Disney actually know how many people watched the drat thing or how that translates to income for Disney+. That's part of the whole deal here, the streamers do not loving tell you how many people are actually watching any given show, so the writers have no way to say "wait, wait, X million people watched it and this is all I get?"

Maxwell Lord posted:

Yeah I think specifically it's SAG striking that means they can't do promotion work, maybe they see it as more part of the job (which makes sense.)

This is a big thing. It also shuts down all current productions. You can shoot with a finished script, you just can't get any changes to it made. But you can't shoot without actors. Everything in the pipeline that was going to keep the studios fed for months is now hosed.

SAG striking is also going to affect a lot of the "pivot to reality shows!" strategy that TV and streamers were planning and employed in the last WGA strike. A lot of reality TV hosts and stars like the Kardashians -- are SAG! Jeopardy can't film unless they find a scab host because Ken Jennings is SAG as are most game show hosts presumably. This totally fucks their ability to get around pre-written content.

We're about to see a lot more licensing of foreign shows and indie movies getting acquired and kicked up to the big leagues if they don't solve this.

TrixRabbi fucked around with this message at 13:57 on Jul 14, 2023

# ? Jul 14, 2023 13:54

A Fancy Hat: Nov 18, 2016; Always remember that the former President was dumber than the dumbest person you've ever met by a wide margin

Here's a weird question; what does this mean for conventions like San Diego Comic Con?

We have a local con coming up in August and they're claiming that actors are still coming. But is that true? And if they do show up - what are they allowed to discuss? Presumably no promotion of upcoming work, and no talk of work done while they were in SAG, right? Are we just going to talk about the weather or something?

# ? Jul 14, 2023 14:00

TrixRabbi: Aug 20, 2010; Time for a little robot chauvinism!

A Fancy Hat posted:

Here's a weird question; what does this mean for conventions like San Diego Comic Con?

We have a local con coming up in August and they're claiming that actors are still coming. But is that true? And if they do show up - what are they allowed to discuss? Presumably no promotion of upcoming work, and no talk of work done while they were in SAG, right? Are we just going to talk about the weather or something?

From what I saw, actors can technically attend on their own dime if they just want to go, but cannot participate on any panels, do Q&As, intro trailers for upcoming films, or have the studio pay their expenses (as they usually would for promotion appearances) etc. Don't take my word as gospel, I'm just going off of what I read, I think - for example - a star could attend and still do autograph signings or other work like that, but they cannot promote any current or upcoming releases. So like, It absolutely is a huge wrench in Comic Con's whole deal.

So let's say Brie Larson was there, for example. She could sign autographs and maybe participate on a panel not related to the upcoming The Marvels film. She could answer questions about Room or Kong: Skull Island but she would not discuss The Marvels, or likely Fast X either since that's still in theaters in some places and considered current. I dunno in that scenario if she (as our hypothetical example) would discuss Avengers: Endgame or Captain Marvel, since in theory that could be seen as building hype for the new sequel coming out, but in general that would be how it works.

Sorta neuters the whole experience, which is the point of a strike.

# ? Jul 14, 2023 14:07

xeria: Jul 26, 2004; Ruh roh...

A Fancy Hat posted:

Here's a weird question; what does this mean for conventions like San Diego Comic Con?

We have a local con coming up in August and they're claiming that actors are still coming. But is that true? And if they do show up - what are they allowed to discuss? Presumably no promotion of upcoming work, and no talk of work done while they were in SAG, right? Are we just going to talk about the weather or something?

My understanding is that they can't discuss anything that's any kind of studio-related work - whether past, current, or upcoming - so that seems to have resulted in, say, the That 70s Show anniversary panel being outright cancelled but I saw one article saying that Jamie Lee Curtis/Patton Oswalt would still attend SDCC to promote their graphic novel/etc. work, with the caveat that they just wouldn't be allowed to discuss their film/tv stuff. General sense seems to be: 1) actors who'd be there just to promote film/tv are very likely to pull out of cons entirely; 2) panels/screenings about film/tv may still happen but would be without their writers/actors present (if they'd previously planned to attend); 3) any other unrelated promotional work - books, comics, gaming, etc. - should be unaffected but could still be if any of them involve a SAG/WGA member who cancels their attendance (but they wouldn't be required to do so by the union in this case, I think).

quote:

"In general terms, any kind of promotion of any project that was made under the Television/Theatrical agreements � either current or past � will not be allowed," Duncan Crabtree-Ireland, the National Executive Director and Chief Negotiator of SAG-AFTRA, said during a SAG strike press conference Thursday. According to Crabtree-Ireland, that includes "Comic-Con, festival panels, on social media, at a premiere," or promotion "in any form."

# ? Jul 14, 2023 14:15

Pigbuster: Sep 12, 2010; Fun Shoe

TrixRabbi posted:

Residuals are supposed to be periodical, not sure how frequent, but that's going to dwindle down to literal pennies over time as the show ages and only makes occasional income. So this is in theory the big check when the show is still hot and bringing in income.

Of course, the biggest issue here is -- She-Hulk is a streaming exclusive show. And no one but a select group of people inside Disney actually know how many people watched the drat thing or how that translates to income for Disney+. That's part of the whole deal here, the streamers do not loving tell you how many people are actually watching any given show, so the writers have no way to say "wait, wait, X million people watched it and this is all I get?"

Note that we're starting to see more and more of the Zaslav technique of throwing streaming-exclusive shows and movies in the garbage forever solely to get out of paying residuals. With syndication and physical media, residuals are not enough of a reason for publishers to just completely disappear them; the only way for them to make money from the property is to sell it somehow, and if that includes residuals, so be it. But streaming services aren't selling individual pieces of media � they're selling subscriptions to the catalogue as a whole, and thus they're increasingly realizing they can mothball their low-popularity stuff to save a buck on residual payouts. The downside to the strategy is that it gradually erodes public trust in your service and will almost certainly lead to subscriber stagnation, but gently caress it, that's in the future, we only have eyes on current quarterly profits, baybee. It genuinely feels like residuals are going to become incompatible with the streaming model, especially as Zaslaving becomes more common.

# ? Jul 14, 2023 14:56

Kingtheninja: Jul 29, 2004; "You're the best looking guy here."

Yeah sdcc is going to be interesting now, I saw Raymond Lee from quantum leap posting the whole cast panel thing was canceled so I can only imagine most/all the panels planned are now canceled.

# ? Jul 14, 2023 16:36

Doctor Teeth: Sep 12, 2008

Confusedslight posted:

It will last 6 months.

Yeah my guess is 6+ months as well. The studios really don't want to give out actual streaming numbers.

# ? Jul 14, 2023 18:21

Darko: Dec 23, 2004

Silver2195 posted:

The stakes here seem pretty high; ChatGPT-style "AI" is, frankly, a threat to art, to a functioning economy, and to human communication generally, and needs to have its use limited as much as possible.

Studios wanting to just scan extras and stand-ins so they don't have to pay for extras in their stuff is crazy. Especially since that's typically struggling actors way of making connections and getting a break. Instead, they'll just pay you to come on set for 10/hr and you'll be on there for 3 hours to stand in a line and get scanned, get your 24 bucks, and leave and now you can be background dude in whatever movies forever.

Kingtheninja posted:

Yeah sdcc is going to be interesting now, I saw Raymond Lee from quantum leap posting the whole cast panel thing was canceled so I can only imagine most/all the panels planned are now canceled.

I have passes and am not going because it will be pointless now (I went to meet and hang out with people in the bars and not so much the con stuff). The panels were very carefully worded to be not say the actors would actually be there and Hall H is barren this year with headliners being animation productions and stuff. Nobody is coming except maybe a couple producers from film and TV. They'll probably show quick video clips or something.

I'm curious as to who will be signing anything now.

# ? Jul 14, 2023 19:59

duz: Jul 11, 2005; Come on Ilhan, lets go bag us a shitpost

Here is a handy graphic from the union themselves with what is and isn't allowed
https://twitter.com/sagaftra/status/1679658224629284864

# ? Jul 14, 2023 21:06

duz: Jul 11, 2005; Come on Ilhan, lets go bag us a shitpost

tl;dr is that commercials, game shows, talk shows, reality tv, music videos, video games and news are covered under unstruck contracts and may continue to use SAG-AFTRA workers.

# ? Jul 14, 2023 21:10

CelticPredator: Oct 11, 2013; 🍀👽🆚🪖🏋

And micro budget stuff, which is my territory

# ? Jul 14, 2023 21:14

Jerkface: May 21, 2001; HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE DEAD, MOTHERFUCKER?; Fallen Rib

https://twitter.com/JortsTheCat/status/1679938611955859456

# ? Jul 14, 2023 21:24

armpit_enjoyer: Jan 25, 2023; my god. it's full of posts

"Listen to me, motherfucker. There's a lot of ways to lose a house"

cannot think of a better man to deliver that line

# ? Jul 14, 2023 21:33

CelticPredator: Oct 11, 2013; 🍀👽🆚🪖🏋

Jerkface posted:

https://twitter.com/JortsTheCat/status/1679938611955859456

I love him so much

# ? Jul 14, 2023 21:34

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

duz posted:

tl;dr is that commercials, game shows, talk shows, reality tv, music videos, video games and news are covered under unstruck contracts and may continue to use SAG-AFTRA workers.

No better time than now for the AAA video games to stunt cast some A-list actors

# ? Jul 14, 2023 21:38

Davros1: Jul 19, 2007; You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

Vegetable posted:

No better time than now for the AAA video games to stunt cast some A-list actors

Networks are going to start leasing cutscenes from video games

# ? Jul 14, 2023 21:42

Digamma-F-Wau: Mar 22, 2016; It is curious and wants to accept all kinds of challenges

looks like animated shows for tv/streaming are also okay to voice act in (though there's no mention of animated films being okay to voice act in)

# ? Jul 14, 2023 22:23

CapnAndy: Feb 27, 2004; Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

fez_machine posted:

3 months is like entirely empty quarters in 2024-25 for movies and nothing but reality for streaming and tv. Or I guess I hope you enjoy foreign media.

A deal will have to be struck by then.

I think you are vastly underestimating the AMPTP's desire to break the unions forever and move on to a glorious all-AI future where no pesky "creatives" need to get paid.

# ? Jul 14, 2023 22:40

armpit_enjoyer: Jan 25, 2023; my god. it's full of posts

judging by ron perlman's attitude in that video, i think you're vastly overestimating the HP bars on those studio executives

# ? Jul 14, 2023 22:47

TrixRabbi: Aug 20, 2010; Time for a little robot chauvinism!

armpit_enjoyer posted:

judging by ron perlman's attitude in that video, i think you're vastly overestimating the HP bars on those studio executives

Yeah, they would love to crush the unions forever, but do they actually have the cards to do that?

I do think allowing so much TV work during the strike is an issue, but I understand the agreements are different. My concern is, if you're trying to hit the streamers where it hurts, it sounds like "pivot to reality shows" is still an option. There's a ton of stuff that can still be produced and the streamers, who function as both film studios AND TV studios, will be able to stick to that original plan of doing reality TV and other content they don't need writers for.

# ? Jul 14, 2023 23:08

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

TrixRabbi posted:

Yeah, they would love to crush the unions forever, but do they actually have the cards to do that?

I do think allowing so much TV work during the strike is an issue, but I understand the agreements are different. My concern is, if you're trying to hit the streamers where it hurts, it sounds like "pivot to reality shows" is still an option. There's a ton of stuff that can still be produced and the streamers, who function as both film studios AND TV studios, will be able to stick to that original plan of doing reality TV and other content they don't need writers for.

the bread & butter of streaming services, endless True Crime Documentaries, are not on the table, that content is under struck contract. "Reality Shows" would mean pure absolute garbage like Bachelor and such, which is not what moves the needle. And as noted upthread, the actual personalities that would get eyeballs on a reality show (LeBron James, Kim Kardashian) are in SAG now, so you'd be forced to put nobodies on TV

# ? Jul 15, 2023 02:45

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE: Aug 1, 2004; whoa, what just happened here?; College Slice

They could turn the NASA Mars sim year thing into Big Brother Mars

# ? Jul 15, 2023 07:05

banned from Starbucks: Jul 18, 2004

SilentChaz posted:

Disney CEO Bob Iger says writers and actors are not being "realistic" with strikes: "It's very disturbing to me"

https://twitter.com/yayforzig/status/1679502095244996609 (This was the easiest tweet to find from a writer in response to what Iger said. I know there are others.)

"This is the worst time in the world to ask megarich shitbags like me to let anyone else be able to make any money whatsoever" ~ Megarich Shitbag literally any time ever.

# ? Jul 15, 2023 12:53

zer0spunk: Nov 6, 2000; devil never even lived

won't someone think of the poor CEOs??

# ? Jul 15, 2023 15:12

TrixRabbi: Aug 20, 2010; Time for a little robot chauvinism!

I liked this blog: https://mikedrucker.substack.com/p/just-pay-us-man

Mike Drucker posted:

To be clear, we didn�t change the loving industry. Actors and writers didn�t create streaming platforms. I got into comedy because I�m loving awful at programming. We didn�t tell studios to move away from advertising and physical media sales to a monthly subscription model. We didn�t tell studios to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on films that would never see a dollar from a movie theater. One successful streaming service convinced an entire industry that everything must be streaming. And, look, I can�t blame them. Everyone loves convenience and what streaming platforms can do is a modern technological marvel. It�s not the audience�s fault.

But it did change the business model. And to paraphrase the motherfucking Nanny - whose press conference from yesterday you should really watch - if the way these companies make money has changed, the contracts in which we make money need to change. It�s loving ridiculous this needs to be pointed out. It�s like if you worked at a fancy restaurant that changed its business model to being a Foot Locker, but you still relied on tips from customers. That�s a terrible metaphor, but kind of what�s going on with streaming residuals.

Just pay us, man.

Mike Drucker posted:

If the new business model is difficult or it�s a �bad time� for negotiations, that�s not on us. Remember that. CEOs love to cut costs and do layoffs when a business struggles, but somehow elide the fact that those struggles are almost entirely caused by their own loving professional failures. We shouldn�t be asked to patiently wait for the studios to fix a problem they both created and don�t want to admit creating.

# ? Jul 15, 2023 19:08