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At the time, i thought there was no one clearer to take up the Tank mantle than Cabbage. He didn't seem to have the same degree of malice, but the entertainment proposition was quite similar. He for sure molded the unpredictable and comic template of heavyweight MMA.
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May 29, 2023 21:34
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CarlCX posted:Cabbage is entrenched in memory for one of the worst possible reasons: An impossibly solid chin. He was famous for being so ludicrously tough and addicted to brawling that he would take dozens of knockout punches to the face without dropping, all in the name of getting a chance to swing back and catch opponents who thought they had him where they wanted him. CarlCX posted:I would like to tell you that Aorigele got famous for his fighting. It wouldn't be inaccurate; he was a numerically successful fighter and had victories over famous fighters like Bob Sapp and Kazuyuki Fujita who, respectfully, extremely should not have been fighting anymore. Oh 
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May 29, 2023 22:10
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last I heard of Kaz Fujita was that he returned to pro wrestling, still wrestling like a disrespectful shitkicker and making all of the twitter wrestling fans really angry by doing so.
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May 29, 2023 22:34
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LvK posted:wrestling like a disrespectful shitkicker Is that just acting and scripting, or is that being rougher/ dirtier?
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May 30, 2023 01:30
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He had an hour long match during the pandemic no crowds era that went an almost an hour with the first 30 minutes being nothing but a stare down. It was a pretty well received match if I recall.
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May 30, 2023 02:03
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Ringo Roadagain posted:He had an hour long match during the pandemic no crowds era that went an almost an hour with the first 30 minutes being nothing but a stare down. Very Tank like, then https://youtu.be/-QS1RqjvgTc I can't say it's worth watching in full. This is a good summary: https://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/tank-abbott-scott-ferrozzo-backyard-brawl
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May 30, 2023 02:42
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Choosing to forgo all technique to just stand and bang and just eat shots with your iron chin is what I want from heavyweight brawlers. Cabbage has my support
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May 30, 2023 08:46
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'Being too dumb to know pain' is prime Tank territory. Cabbage has my vote.
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May 30, 2023 09:18
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plus he was doing brawling and power throws against more technical younger guys, which is part of why I saw people on Twitter freaking out about him.
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May 30, 2023 18:13
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  Aorigele, the Tormented Abbott, has been eliminated. Match six begins this afternoon.
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May 31, 2023 09:42
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kimbo305 posted:Is that just acting and scripting, or is that being rougher/ dirtier? It's more that he refuses to put people over because he thinks he'd beat them in a shoot fight. Which seems to be missing the point of Pro Wrestling but that's Inokism for you
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May 31, 2023 11:08
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 ROY NELSON vs BUTTERBEAN IN THE RED CORNER:  ROY "BIG COUNTRY" NELSON 6'0" / 264 lbs Active at 24-19 Winning ratio: 59% Victory method ratio: 67% KO, 17% SUB, 17% DEC Won and defended the International Fight League Heavyweight Championship, won TUF 10, eliminated in first round of 2018 Bellator Heavyweight GP Best win: Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira Worst loss: Matt Mitrione Record against other Abbotts: Lost to Mark Hunt and Derrick Lewis Roy Nelson, ladies and gentlemen. Roy Nelson was a childhood student of Kung Fu and Karate, but it wasn't until he started doing Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu that he found his way to mixed martial arts. Roy's success in the IFL once marked him as one of the best heavyweights outside the UFC, but the release of former stars like Andrei Arlovski and Jeff Monson saw his heat die down considerably, and it forced him to enter the big show through the side door that was The Ultimate Fighter. It's easy to forget now, but season ten of TUF was completely and wholly programmed around streetfighting celebrity Kimbo Slice, whom the UFC had mocked for years and was now, finally, attempting to bring in and market. And then Roy Nelson sat on him and punched him in the face until he gave up. And Dana White never, ever forgave him. Roy Nelson was Dana White's least favorite fighter for loving years. Some of it was Kimbo, some of it was Nelson knocking out marketably preferable fighters like Cro-Cop, Cheick Kongo and Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira, but mostly, it annoyed the poo poo out of Dana that Roy Nelson was a big fat guy. Even though Nelson was going the distance with some of the best heavyweights on the planet, he saw it as disappointing and even disrespectful, and after eight years, Dana had enough. Nelson was released and allowed to run off to Bellator in 2018, where he proceeded to lose five fights in a row and look like absolute poo poo in the process. And now he's fighting in bareknuckle MMA. Maybe it was always destined to be so. IN THE BLUE CORNER:  ERIC "BUTTERBEAN" ESCH 5'11" / 378 lbs Retired at 17-10-1 Winning ratio: 61% Victory method ratio: 47% KO, 53% SUB, 0% DEC Multiple-time boxing superheavyweight champion, Elite-1 MMA Superheavyweight champion Best win: James Thompson Worst loss: Jeff Kugel Record against other Abbotts: Beat Zuluzinho and Wesley Correia, lost to Correia in kickboxing Butterbean was famous for his size long before he was the world's toughest fat man. He was huge even from childhood, he was big and strong enough to work as a floorer as a teenager, and even his nickname is a tribute to it--because he had to eat a diet of lima beans, known elsewhere as butterbeans, to cut down to the 400-pound limit for Toughman boxing. He was an immediate hit, and if you watched sports television in the 1990s you would, inevitably, see Butterbean violently destroying one of the 77 under-trained semi-pro boxers in his way. He was all power and ferocity, he very rarely saw a decision, and he was, indisputably, the king of the Toughman circuit. But boxing wasn't big enough to hold him. Butterbean became a pop culture phenomenon: He knocked out Bart Gunn at Wrestlemania 15, he fought Johnny Knoxville in a department store for Jackass: The Movie, he did video games, he did television shows, he had a reality show about being a celebrity sheriff, and, of course, he crossed into the greater world of combat sports. Butterbean brought his talents to K-1, became a deeply unsuccessful kickboxer, and slid over to MMA where he, somehow, got more submissions than he did knockouts. He'd still swing away, and he dropped his fair share of people--but as a case in point, in his four big Japanese MMA fights he only actually scored one knockout, and it was against former WWE, WCW and NJPW wrestler Sean O'Haire--and that was after he simply grabbed O'Haire's skull with one hand and punched him in the back of the head with the other until he fell over.  This is, to my mind, one of the stiffest matchups of the entire bracket. Both of these men have a strong argument as true representatives of the Tank Abbott spirit--big, mean motherfuckers who swung haymakers as hard as they possibly could in an attempt to use every pound of mass they kept in abundance. They were happiest when they were brawling. It's why Roy Nelson moved on to bareknuckle fighting and it's why Eric Esch expanded past boxing. That and, y'know, money. I think the real winner in this fight comes down to your interpretation of intent and achievement. As similar as they are on the surface, these men took very different approaches to their actual fighting style. Roy Nelson, it is worth reiterating, is a legitimately talented grappler. He's a Renzo Gracie black belt, which is extremely difficult to get, and a multiple-time Pan-Am champion, and yet the vast majority of his victories came through horrifically violent knockouts. He'd shoot takedowns and clinch against the fence here and there--never more than against Derrick Lewis, understandably--but for the most part he actively eschewed his own grappling advantages in the name of hitting people with haymakers. He famously trained to fight the 7' Stefan Struve not by working on his takedowns and grappling, but by having his trainers stand on chairs with gloves and shoes strapped to poles while he tried to weave between them and hit them. And it worked. For a long time the concern was Roy may be TOO successful to qualify as a Tank Abbott, but fortunately, his late-career slide took care of that for him--over the last decade he's gone 5-12, and where once he was crushing world champions, now he's struggling with Javy Ayala. But Butterbean--I mean, he's Butterbean. You knew exactly what you were getting with a Butterbean fight, and whether he was destroying an untrained competitor in a Toughman bout, knocking James Thompson senseless or getting submitted by a 200-pounds-lighter Genki Sudo, it never really changed. He was an endlessly reliable brawler and a constant purveyor of wild, violent punching, and nothing could make him stop. He was not compromised by his size, he excelled precisely because of it: It made him stronger and it made dozens of opponents underestimate him. There was nothing held back in his style and no secret wellspring of skill he was choosing to ignore; he fought with absolutely everything he had, and that meant beating most of the worst fighters on the planet and getting crushed by almost everyone he met that could be considered good. So take your stance on achievement. Is Butterbean the better, more consistent and more traditional Abbott, for having no adulterating influences and overachieving by making the crossover to mixed martial arts in the first place, or does his inexplicable reliance on submissions cost him? Or is Roy Nelson the proper Abbott for ignoring his best skill, being unwilling to lose weight for his career, and ultimately underachieving his genuine championship potential by refusing to get out of his own way, or is he disqualified for the crime of actually being good for awhile?  CAST YOUR VOTE
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May 31, 2023 18:57
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big belly bois!
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May 31, 2023 19:10
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Big Country beat Frank Mir in a grappling competition before he was on TUF. Then he fell in love with his big right hand. I think he is the truer Abbott in this case.
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May 31, 2023 19:14
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To me the biggest thing is that Tank was on Friends. Tank was in WCW. Butterbean was Butterbean. It's that break into the mainstream that might make Butterbean even more Tank than Tank.
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May 31, 2023 19:20
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Butterbean was in Hulk Hogan's Celebrity Championship Wrestling. It feels very Tank to me.
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May 31, 2023 19:32
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I voted for Roy Nelson for one reason: as I understand it, part of being a Tank Abbott is being exceptionally devoted to walking forward and hitting people really hard. Butterbean became famous for winning strong man boxing competitions, and as an outsider I'm willing to say that everyone there is equally devoted to walking forward and hitting people really hard. Butterbean is exceptionally good at it, but he isn't exceptionally interested in it compared to his peers. Besides, the amount of submissions he got when he started MMA proper implies that he made an honest attempt at changing his style and didn't stick with pure force. Then again, I was able to make that argument because I was already aware of Butterbean, so maybe rare Magic card has a point.
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May 31, 2023 19:35
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Is Butterbean okay?
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May 31, 2023 19:47
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Laying out Knoxville in a thrift store is as Tank as it gets. Roy was never that carny, he was just a fat guy who annoyed Dana White
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May 31, 2023 19:50
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I have to go with Roy here. Can't vote for a would-be Tank who has more submissions than knockouts.
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May 31, 2023 19:53
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my brain tells me Butterbean is the more Tank fighter but my heart says Roy even though he was much more successful. Gonna go Roy just because he used his Tank powers to piss off Dana White so much
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May 31, 2023 20:57
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Do you have some links to decent butterbean tank-style fights because I have this one as roy all day. For some reason butterbean doesn't strike me as a tank abbott kind of guy, despite only really having seen his genki sudo fight. Roy abandoning his bjj (except that time he owned kimbo) to brawl is extremely tank
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May 31, 2023 21:50
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Bluedeanie posted:Laying out Knoxville in a thrift store is as Tank as it gets. Roy was never that carny, he was just a fat guy who annoyed Dana White Got to say that Johnny Knoxville's reaction to getting wiped out by Butterbean is one of the all-time cinema comedy moments. That said, being a very good grappler who forsakes it in exchange for swinging for the fences is just exquisitely Tank so I gotta vote Big Country
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May 31, 2023 22:32
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"Is Butterbean OK???"
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Jun 1, 2023 00:26
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Butter bean getting submitted by genki Sudo is extremely tank
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Jun 1, 2023 00:36
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Genki sudo doing the wrestling bounce-off-the-ropes for momentum was extremely genki sudo
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Jun 1, 2023 00:43
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Roy Nelson has punched out too many credible fighters to be a Tank. Going with Butterbean on this one.
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Jun 1, 2023 02:45
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I feel like the grappler that loved to brawl is Tankier than the boxer that loved to brawl but somehow ended up winning mostly by submission. Plus Roy has a big gross beard and having a big gross beard is a key feature of Tank IMO
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Jun 1, 2023 08:25
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With a bit over a day of voting left, the two are separated by a single vote. The forest falls around us for a battle of giants.
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Jun 1, 2023 08:38
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Kuno posted:I feel like the grappler that loved to brawl is Tankier than the boxer that loved to brawl but somehow ended up winning mostly by submission. Yeah, the key thing for me to decide here is if a guy is perfectly capable grappling but they just walk forwards and throw punches.
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Jun 1, 2023 12:29
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CommonShore posted:Butter bean getting submitted by genki Sudo is extremely tank This is where i landed
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Jun 1, 2023 15:07
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Had to vote for Nelson purely on the strength of the love I felt for Butterbean when I watched the Jackass movie and he paused in the middle of beating the poo poo out of Knoxville and said,"Go on and get a punch in!", let Knoxville smack him right in the face, smiled and said,"There you go!  " and then proceeded to continue to mop the floor with him 
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Jun 1, 2023 15:19
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I voted for Nelson, since I'm not sure Butterbean is MMA enough to qualify here.
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Jun 1, 2023 16:49
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Ultimately voted Nelson but it was tough
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Jun 1, 2023 17:47
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CarlCX posted:With a bit over a day of voting left, the two are separated by a single vote. The forest falls around us for a battle of giants. Many hours and a score of votes later, what clarity have we reached? 
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Jun 1, 2023 22:58
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It is time for Steve Jennum to take the place of either of the competitors for this round
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Jun 1, 2023 23:03
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CarlCX posted:Many hours and a score of votes later, what clarity have we reached? I really like this because it calls into question who is tank abbott? What is tank abbott? Butterbean v Roy Nelson may be the most philosophical tank matchup, I know I certainly don't associate them at all in the same "style" of fighter. Whether this is down to era or exposure or success outside of MMA I'm not really sure. I feel like maybe it's almost a chase sherman or diaz reality philosophical kind of question. What is it to be tank? Or what is it to be a tank?
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Jun 2, 2023 00:14
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Boco_T posted:It is time for Steve Jennum to take the place of either of the competitors for this round this is clearly the only allowable solution
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Jun 2, 2023 04:17
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After the closest vote we've had, with by far the most votes tallied:  Roy Nelson, the Self-Denying Abbott, has been eliminated. Match seven begins this afternoon.
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Jun 2, 2023 10:31
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Loving how philosophical this has become
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Jun 2, 2023 15:39
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