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forgot to vote until posting this so it was too late and i would have voted big country but it still wouldn't have been enough. however. every vote matters a poo poo lode
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Jun 2, 2023 15:54
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I should have posted this yesterday, but if you haven't seen how good of a grappler Roy Nelson actually was, watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dj5xMeXybs
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Jun 2, 2023 16:20
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 MARK HUNT vs JAN "THE GIANT" NORTJE IN THE RED CORNER:  MARK "THE SUPER SAMOAN" HUNT 5'10" / 265 lbs Retired at 13-14-1 (1) Winning ratio: 45% Victory method ratio: 77% KO, 0% SUB, 23% DEC Won the 2001 K-1 World Grand Prix, Unsuccessfully fought for the Pride and UFC heavyweight championships Best win: Frank Mir Worst loss: Hidehiko Yoshida Record against other Abbotts: Beat Roy Nelson, beat Derrick Lewis What can you say about Mark Hunt that has not already been said? The dude came from horrible circumstances and channeled his childhood trauma into life as a street tough, and after a bouncer saw him singlehandedly knock out multiple punks outside a bar he was inducted into the world of kickboxing. A week later he scored his first knockout as a professional fighter and was paid in beer, a standard that fueled his early days as an unknown brawler out of Sydney; a few years later, he won the 2001 K-1 World Grand Prix. A few years after that, he was an instant celebrity in the world of Japanese mixed martial arts and one of the world's favorite heavyweights in Pride. ...and a few years after that Pride had folded and Mark Hunt was 5-6 and getting shithoused in seconds by middleweights. After several years of attempting to simply buy him out of his contract Hunt finally wore the UFC down and talked them into letting him fight--and he lost, immediately. But a funny thing happened after that: He started knocking motherfuckers out again. His huge punches, his great timing and his ability to force people into high-pressure exchanges paid dividends, and by 2014, he was fighting for the (interim) heavyweight championship. Which, y'know, he lost. He still, ultimately, mostly lost. But he also sued the poo poo out of the UFC, which is respectable. He retired from MMA in 2018, but he's made appearances for a couple celebrity boxing matches. IN THE BLUE CORNER:  JAN "THE GIANT" NORTJE 6'11" / 333 lbs Retired at 2-6 Winning ratio: 25% Victory method ratio: 100% KO, 0% SUB, 0% DEC Two-sport jobber with a 9-16 K-1 record, SUPER HULK participant Best win: Bob Sapp Worst loss: Shinsuke Nakamura Record against other Abbotts: None Here's the thing about Jan Nortje: He was very large. Nortje was born in Cape Town and was already a big, big dude by the time he was a teenager, and it came as a surprise to absolutely no one in his family when he took up boxing. Despite turning towards the pugilistic arts, he wound up participating in kickboxing first--this was the golden age of K-1, when their kickboxing talent scouts were all over the world, and thanks to Nortje serving as a training partner to international superstar Mike Bernardo he got on K-1's radar, and by god, you could not stop Japan from booking gigantic gaijin on their combat sports cards. But, unfortunately, he just wasn't very good. Nortje didn't really ever get used to kicking, or jabbing, or lasting longer than a couple of rounds. He was a 6'11" man with no idea how to use it--all he wanted to do was swing. Whether from the hip or around the shoulder, Jan Nortje wanted to push people into a corner and act out his anger issues by flattening them with wide, wild punches. When it worked, it was terrifying. Most of the time, it didn't. His crossover into mixed martial arts didn't go any better--he only won two MMA fights, and they were, respectively, an almost 40 year-old Tadao Yasuda who had no idea how to fight and was only doing it because Inoki promised him an NJPW push and a circa-2008 Bob Sapp who was just entering the "pin me, pay me" period of his career. Ultimately, Nortje wound up with a 9-16 kickboxing record and a 2-6 MMA record.  I've tried to stay rooted in the dark-horse nature of some of these matchups and given you reasons why, say, a Dada 5000 could compete with a Tank Abbott, but in the spirit of that honesty: Every mixed martial arts tournament inevitably includes someone getting a much easier opponent than everyone else, and objectively, I think the RNG picked a squash match, here. Look: It's Jan Nortje vs Mark loving Hunt. Hunt is an absolute monster in this tournament: A literal street fighter with professionally diagnosed anger issues who took them out on the fighters of the world by beating their goddamn heads in. He overachieved by becoming a K-1 champion only to immediately underachieve, squandering his career on crystal meth and Counter-Strike. Even his career highs come with massive caveats. He won the 2001 K-1 World Grand Prix, but he actually lost all three of his qualifying matches--he made it into the tournament anyway thanks to injuries and his popularity, and had the benefit of a tournament bracket whose defending champion, the best heavyweight kickboxer of all time, had to bow out after the first round. He got a shot at Fedor Emelianenko, but only after getting manhandled with ease by Josh Barnett. He fought for a UFC championship! But he was, at the time, on a one-fight winning streak and had just fought to a draw with Bigfoot Silva and gotten kicked senseless by Junior dos Santos. His career is a masterclass in Tank Abbottdom and if he doesn't make it to the tournament finals I'll be shocked. Jan Nortje is just sort of a guy. He qualifies as an Abbott--he's all mass, anger and haymakers, with decades of technique under his belt he never really used, and when you see the way he could hit people you also see the way he used that size as a bludgeon--but he never overachieved or underachieved, he was never enormously notable, he was just kind of a two-sport jobber. He was technically undefeated as a boxer, but almost everyone he fought was a fellow rookie. Aside from that it's just losing, constantly. Jan Nortje lost a kickboxing match to Tom Erikson, a wrestler with a lifetime kickboxing record of 1-4. Jan Nortje got outgrappled by violent punchman Gary Goodridge. Jan Nortje submitted to strikes against Shinsuke loving Nakamura. I added Jan Nortje to this tournament as a representative of the low-tier Abbotts and an interesting counter to the Johnathan Iveys and Aorigeles and Dada 5000s of the bracket. The RNG chose to serve him up as a sacrificial lamb instead. Unless you hold it strongly against Hunt that he brushed the top of combat sports--and I personally don't think you should, because a) Tank Abbott got a title shot and b) Hunt failed miserably--I don't know that there's a great argument for Nortje here. If anyone's got one, now's the time.  CAST YOUR VOTE
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Jun 2, 2023 19:22
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was thinking about the giant just a week ago https://twitter.com/Boco_T/status/1661482145452523521
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Jun 2, 2023 19:34
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Mark Hunt did this at age 48: https://twitter.com/MMAPropagande/status/1588864640465133569
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Jun 2, 2023 19:35
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Hunto's penchant for walk-off KOs is a major disqualifier - it is not in the Abbott's nature to refuse the chance to inflict further harm.
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Jun 2, 2023 19:38
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Baron La Croix posted:Hunto's penchant for walk-off KOs is a major disqualifier - it is not in the Abbott's nature to refuse the chance to inflict further harm. this plus mark hunt just seems like too technical and patient of a striker to qualify. instead of forsaking a skill to instead be a brawler, he started as a brawler and learned a skill.
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Jun 2, 2023 19:53
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Hunt would beat Nortje if they went 1 on 1 in Hyper Fighting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib_jzW4bWdI But that's not very Tank Abbotty.
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Jun 2, 2023 19:58
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While there are a few things working against Hunt, such as his skills and Christianity, his penchant for losing despite being a total badass is Tank to the core. The fact that he chose to fight out his contract, even though no one wanted him to, and actually won enough to stick around is one of my favourite MMA storylines. Smashing the jaw of a 7 foot tall Stefan Struve, with the matching x-ray, was probably my personal favourite moment of his.
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Jun 2, 2023 21:47
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Pb and Jellyfish posted:While there are a few things working against Hunt, such as his skills and Christianity, his penchant for losing despite being a total badass is Tank to the core. The fact that he chose to fight out his contract, even though no one wanted him to, and actually won enough to stick around is one of my favourite MMA storylines. Smashing the jaw of a 7 foot tall Stefan Struve, with the matching x-ray, was probably my personal favourite moment of his. stefan sutoruvu
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Jun 2, 2023 23:46
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Jan Nortje dressed up in stripey pajamas and matching mask to have a pro wrestling match (teamed up with the Great Khali) against Kevin Randleman and Mark Coleman
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Jun 3, 2023 00:53
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mark hunt is overqualified, jan nortje is in real life what tank was portrayed as in fiction
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Jun 3, 2023 02:01
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Legally speaking, every vote for Mark Hunt counts as overwhelmingly positive evidence in his lawsuits against Dana White, and therefore we must vote for Mark Hunt.
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Jun 3, 2023 02:40
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How many Abbotts got a pretty decent documentary recently? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MxtsesTEuU
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Jun 3, 2023 07:19
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His KO of LeBanner was loving amazing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LooUfKqUhgM
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Jun 3, 2023 18:28
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  Jan Nortje, the Giant Abbott, has been eliminated. Match eight, the final match of the first round, begins this afternoon or possibly early evening because I am eating dinner at two thirty in the morning.
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Jun 4, 2023 10:32
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 DERRICK LEWIS vs ZULUZINHO IN THE RED CORNER:  DERRICK "THE BLACK BEAST" LEWIS 6'3" / 265 lbs Active at 26-11 (1) Winning ratio: 68% Victory method ratio: 81% KO, 4% SUB, 15% DEC Won and defended the Legacy FC heavyweight championship, unsuccessfully challenged for the UFC heavyweight championship twice Best win: Francis Ngannou Worst loss: Matt Mitrione Record against other Abbotts: Beat Roy Nelson, lost to Tai Tuivasa and Mark Hunt Derrick Lewis has accrued enough of a legend as one of the greatest knockout artists the sport has ever seen that most folks don't realize his origin story is, somehow, even closer to the stuff of myth. Lewis grew up street fighting in New Orleans, moved to Texas, finished high school, and was almost immediately arrested for assault--after beating the poo poo out of an armed member of the Ku Klux Klan with his bare hands. He spent three and a half years in prison, learned to be even tougher, got out and became a truck driver so he could pay for formal boxing training--under George Foreman. George goddamn Foreman wanted Lewis to become a professional boxer. But Derrick Lewis knew what flavor of violence spoke to him. And the only thing more incredible than his power is his inconsistency. Derrick Lewis is the all-time knockout leader in UFC heavyweight history--and he's tied for the all-time, all-division record with violence elemental Matt Brown--and he's knocked out incredibly tough men like Alexander Volkov and Marcin Tybura. And he was also went to a decision against Ilir Latifi, a man who got knocked out by Ryan Bader. He fought for the UFC title twice and was completely wrecked in both attempts. He put on some of the most violent fights the heavyweight division has ever seen and somehow also has one of the single worst fights in mixed martial arts history. In short, Derrick Lewis is a land of contrasts. IN THE BLUE CORNER:  WÁGNER DA CONCEIÇÃO MARTINS, AKA ZULUZINHO 6'7" / 400 lbs Active at 14-12 (1) Winning ratio: 52% Victory method ratio: 86% KO, 7% SUB, 7% DEC Eliminated in opening round of 2006 Pride Heavyweight Grand Prix Best win: Ikuhisa Minowa Worst loss: Fedor Emelianenko Record against other Abbotts: Beat Henry Miller, lost to Butterbean Mixed martial arts, even now, is a sufficiently young sport that second-generation competitors outside of the Gracie family itself are rare. It's fitting, then, that our final competitor isn't just a second-generation superstar, but one who owes any awareness of that lineage--and, indeed, his own notoriety--to the Gracies. Casemiro Nascimento Martins was a Brazilian fighter best known as Rei Zulu. He definitely had underground fights in those pre-legalization days, but his self-stated figure of being an undefeated 200-0 is marketing gone wild--and it made him easy pickings for fellow huckster Rickson Gracie, who, on grainy, poorly-restored video you can still find on Youtube, fought and choked Zulu out twice in the eighties. Zulu would come to be known primarily for losing almost every fight anyone actually saw, but his visible abilities and his tough appearance made him a celebrity in the Brazilian fight scene, and laid the groundwork for his son, Wágner da Conceição Martins, to take the stage as Zuluzinho--Little Zulu--and pick up where his father left off. Which is to say: He fought rookies for a year before beating a contender in Cage Warriors and then Pride flew over the giant 6'7", 400-pound guy with a pre-existing beef with Rickson Gracie because their hearts could not stand the idea of not booking the Miller High Life of freakshow fights. Zuluzinho was a giant whose only real goal in any given fight was to force his opponents into a corner or onto their backs so he could hammerfist them with every erg of force his giant frame could conjure up, and it worked, roughly, half of the time. The vast majority of people who know Zuluzinho know him for exactly one fight: The time Pride put a 5-0 superheavyweight against Fedor Emelianenko, the best heavyweight in the world, and Zuluzinho managed to get dropped twice and tap out to strikes in just twenty-six seconds. I think this matchup hinges on your opinion of Derrick Lewis's success as a fighter. Derrick Lewis is an exceptional case study in the modern mold of a Tank Abbott. The backstory is similar--street tough who did time for a random act of violence (although Lewis was, uh, a lot more justified), well-honed martial background too often ignored in favor of wild brawling and an unpredecented reputation for destruction. It's the underachievement where things get problematic. He's the all-time heavyweight knockout king. He's been a top contender twice. However weird the fight might have been, he's one of the three men in MMA with a victory over Francis goddamn Ngannou. He's unquestionably had a hall-of-fame career. But he's always buffeted down by the fact that when he loses, he loses badly. The last time Derrick Lewis lost a fight by a well-contested decision was 2011. Every single loss since then has involved getting manhandled. If you go back to his early UFC days you'll get some middling losses in the form of Shawn Jordan and Matt Mitrione, but nearly every loss since then--Mark Hunt, Daniel Cormier, Junior dos Santos, Ciryl Gane, Tai Tuivasa, Sergei Pavlovich--has come against either a current/former champion or a top contender. His last loss to Sergey Spivak this past February marked his first defeat by someone outside of the top ten in eight years. It's comparatively much easier to define Zuluzinho's career by his losses as opposed to his wins, because almost everyone he beat was a nobody. His victories are the things padded records are made of--my favorite bit, by far, is his scoring a first round knockout of a debuting, 0-0 Serbian fighter named Aleksandar Aleksic in March of 2019 and having a rematch with him nine months later in December of 2019, by which point Aleksic was 0-5--and the best victories of his life were the one that got him to Pride, an exhausting battering of Rafał Dąbrowski in Cage Warriors, and his TKO of middleweight madman Ikuhisa Minowa, whom he outweighed by roughly two hundred pounds. And it's the line between appearance and efficacy that really propels Zuluzinho into Abbottdom. During that aforementioned Dąbrowski fight one of the Cage Warriors commentators murmurs about the way Zuluzinho feels like he throws every punch with a pure hatred for its target, and it makes it even better that most of his victories came from just crushing people under his mass and punching them until they wanted out. All, oddly, but his one victory in Pride. Zuluzinho went 1-3 at the big show, including, somehow, getting keylocked by Butterbean, but his one victory came over Henry "Sentoryu" Miller when the referees called a TKO after ninety seconds despite Sentoryu visibly moving and defending himself--and it became clear, and was even noted by the commentators, that the real problem appeared to be Zuluzinho's trunks repeatedly falling down and threatening to show his rear end on national television, which Pride desperately wanted to avoid. Derrick Lewis is unquestionably the more classically accurate Abbott. His boxing-and-wrestling style, his vicious power and his desire to use it to violently harm people while talking periodically about the temperature of his balls all fit the mold perfectly. But he was a top heavyweight perpetually on the doorstep of contendership for most of the past decade, and it's only within the last year that he's finally beginning to crack. Zuluzinho is a Tank in spirit. He fights furiously, he wings every punch, he makes a mockery of fighters who are too visibly untrained to compete at any kind of serious level and he's made to look similarly silly by anyone who actually knows what they're doing. He thrashed middleweights, got the poo poo beaten out of him by an actual champion, and has a TKO victory by Pants Fell Down. It is a question of your heart. Is Derrick Lewis too good to be a Tank? Or is Zuluzinho too bad? CAST YOUR VOTE
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Jun 4, 2023 21:58
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this is an amazing last round matchup. would hong man choi ever qualify as a tank? I only really remember him for being gently caress off huge, which I guess isn't fair to him.
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Jun 4, 2023 22:28
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ilmucche posted:this is an amazing last round matchup. Give us Hong Man Choi vs Manny Yarborough as halftime entertainment.
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Jun 4, 2023 22:58
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Jose Canseco is the tank of my heart
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Jun 4, 2023 23:55
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Derrick Lewis all the way baby, my pick to win the whole thing, he's the greatest.
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Jun 5, 2023 04:21
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Considering a fighter a Tank Abbott because you like them isn't the praise you think it is.
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Jun 5, 2023 06:29
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Is Derrick Lewis an evolution of Tank or is Tank not allowed to change?
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Jun 5, 2023 11:13
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Personally, I think the malleability of a Tank is how we can have the spread of talent we do in the field, and Lewis is in a lot of ways an extremely traditional Tank, he's just Better At It. The question of how SUCCESSFUL a Tank can be while still being considered a Tank is the controversial one, to me.
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Jun 5, 2023 20:32
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Lewis' inconsistency is very Tank-like to me. He's had enough disappointing losses to temper his potential. His "just stand up" ability is singular, and I feel like only completely shut down by DC (ignoring Spivac's much shorter ground control on a over the hill Lewis). Just rewatched the fight against DC, and the training with Khabib really shows, imo. A lot of similar base-knocking tactics, tripodding your weight to keep the opponent weighed down -- it's not surprising that DC was able to keep Lewis down, just pleasant to watch the same formula that Khabib used.
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Jun 5, 2023 21:03
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Is Lewis more successful than Tank? Or are we just in Lewis seeing a Tank who starts his career 5 years younger with a broader base of bad regional heavyweights to fight? Half of Tank's losses came from fights he took after the age that Lewis is today.
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Jun 5, 2023 23:13
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I also like that this entire discussion is about Lewis and not about Zulu.
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Jun 5, 2023 23:14
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zuluzinhao i feel is not so much a tank as he is more of a gimmick like giant silva or hong man choi, derrick to me is probably the closest analogue we have to tank.
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Jun 6, 2023 01:13
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CommonShore posted:I also like that this entire discussion is about Lewis and not about Zulu. Aside from the aforementioned point about Zulu's Tank vs Gimmick issue, I think this happens when you have stature mismatches. Roy Nelson vs Butterbean was a great example of an even playing field; even most Pride fans could only name one Zuluzinho fight, and unless you are a tortured human you have not seen more than three or four of his fights tops, whereas Derrick Lewis has been one of the world's favorite heavyweights for like seven years. For the record, there are eightish hours to go and Lewis is only up by three votes.
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Jun 6, 2023 02:03
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  Zuluzinho, the Hereditary Abbott, has been eliminated. This concludes the first round of the tournament. The quarterfinal round will begin on Thursday after some additional preparation; during the break we'll be promoting a special exhibition bout, which will go up at the usual time this afternoon.
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Jun 6, 2023 10:33
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it's always sunny in philadelphia has a podcast where the creator and stars rewatch the show, and this week, our beloved tank abbott got a mention as don frye had a cameo in the episode they were doing (gang wrestles for the troops) and charlie day remembers liking "the heavy set guy with the bushy beard." RIP, tank. you're still remembered fondly, if only partially
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Jun 6, 2023 19:19
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C. Everett Koop posted:Give us Hong Man Choi vs Manny Yarborough as halftime entertainment. So, funny story:  While our competitors rest, recuperate and ready themselves for the second round of the tournament, we have arranged an intermission bout: THE TALLEST BOY CAR CRASH  Featuring, from left to right: CHOI HONG-MAN, THE TECHNO GOLIATH This 7'2" South Korean kickboxer channeled his acromegaly into a technically successful 13-9 career as a kickboxer, a less successful 4-5 career as a mixed martial artist, and a series of cameo appearances on Korean television shows, my favorite of which is Bring It On, Ghost. He fought Fedor once! It didn't go very well, but he tried. Career highlight: Defeating two sumo wrestlers and a 5'11" welterweight to win the K-1 Seoul GP of 2005. Career lowlight: Losing by TKO after Chinese huckster Yi Long kicked him in the groin. Highest achievement in comedy: Beating up Jose Canseco in the first round of the SUPER HULK Grand Prix. PAULO CÉSAR DA SILVA, GIANT SILVA A 7'2" basketball player out of Brazil who was recruited into the WWF as a part of freakshow stable The Oddities before moving onto NJPW, where Pride gleefully gobbled him up and booked him against a top five heavyweight despite his having essentially no actual training as a fighter. He smiled and looked nervous and then Heath Herring beat him senseless for fifteen minutes. Career highlight: Somehow submitting Henry "Sentoryu" Miller. Career lowlight: Getting wrestled to death by GHC Junior Heavyweight Champion Takashi Sugiura. Highest achievement in comedy: Defeating fellow what-am-I-doing-here yokozuna, professional wrestler, kickboxer and martial artist Akebono in a real fight. JAN NORTJE, THE GIANT The 6'11" kickboxer out of South Africa who couldn't manage to win in kickboxing, mixed martial arts OR the Tank Abbott Tournament. He is here for revenge, and he is praying his height, his shades, and his enormous Nikes are enough to win your heart this time around. Career highlight: Knocking out his training partner and the man who got him into the sport, Mike Bernardo. Career lowlight: Getting taken down, controlled and submitted by future Royal Rumble winner Shinsuke Nakamura. Highest achievement in comedy: Making a "come on, hit me" face at the greatest kickboxer of all time, Ernesto Hoost, only to make an "ow, why'd you hit me" face after he immediately kicked him in the leg as hard as he could. NATHAN JONES, THE COLOSSUS OF BOGGO ROAD After getting arrested for armed robbery, the 6'11" strongman turned to powerlifting, won a bunch of titles, took a bunch of steroids, and became a martial artist and professional wrestler. He had only one professional combat sports bout: An extremely fixed MMA match against Koji Kitao at the very first Pride event, where he jumped around the ring, threw a jumping spinning heel kick, and more or less took himself down and pretended to be submitted by a keylock. Career highlight: Playing Rictus Erectus in Mad Max: Fury Road. Career lowlight: Everything else that ever happened to him. Highest achievement in comedy: Joining the WWE, working eight televised matches, and quitting in mid-tour because he didn't want to leave Australia again. There is no golden rule or standard by which these men are being judged. Only one of them can be the man who gets to wreck the car. Let your heart tell you which you think most deserves the honor of punching a pixelated sedan and pick as your instincts demand. CAST YOUR VOTE
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Jun 6, 2023 19:28
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Nathan Jones has legendarily lactated from steroids, so I'm voting for him
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Jun 6, 2023 19:42
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Jan nortje dropping straight into the big man tournament. Who was in if he had stuck around the main tournament?
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Jun 6, 2023 20:24
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Nathan Jones was in Troy and injured Brad Pitt. I'm not sure if this is a point for or against him in this.
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Jun 6, 2023 22:07
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If one of them has to be the one who destroys a car, it should be Rictus Erectus, imo.
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Jun 6, 2023 22:28
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Giant Silva also worked for PRIDE's pro-wrestling sister promotion, HUSTLE, where he'd make his entrance wielding a giant wooden oni club and did a run-in on an opponent in order to set up a feud for the match they were going to have against each other in PRIDE. That, my friend, is a tall glass of goofy and I love it.
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Jun 7, 2023 00:44
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even if it was only for 3 days nathan was the only boy mentored by the undertaker.
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Jun 7, 2023 01:09
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Jones gets my vote https://youtube.com/watch?v=75v-f6pa8X8&feature=share7
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Jun 7, 2023 01:11
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| # ? May 15, 2024 06:52 |
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CarlCX posted:NATHAN JONES, THE COLOSSUS OF BOGGO ROAD "Fun" fact: Jones took part in the 1995 World's Strongest Man competition, where an event in the prelims was arm wrestling. After handily defeating his first opponent, Jones faced off against European Arm Wrestling champion and future World's Strongest Man, Magnus Samuelsson. How did it go? quote:In 1995, Samuelsson accidentally broke the arm of Australian wrestler Nathan Jones during heats of the 1995 World's Strongest Man contest in Nassau, Bahamas. The injury occurred because Jones employed the novice technique of side twisting. The action combined with Samuelsson's own body strength resulted in a snapped humerus. There's a reason why some techniques are considered "novice", as opposed to "loving stupid."
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Jun 7, 2023 01:28
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