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Halloween Jack posted:There are so many things that Roddenberry apparently didn't want to be part of Star Trek, including zippers, that it makes me wonder what a Trek series would look like if every episode had to satisfy his conception of it 100%. Uncharitably, it seems like every episode would be some kind of psychosexual drama that happens due to the manipulations of godlike beings or people developing reality-warping superpowers. He also wanted Troi to have three breasts and Ferengi to have giant cocks, I think it’s safe to say a 100% unfiltered Roddenberry show would’ve been unwatchable garbage cancelled 6 episodes in.
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Apr 23, 2024 18:26
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FISHMANPET posted:Just read the wikipedia summary, I love a good asymmetrical species story. Everything in Star Trek is too same sometimes, aliens all developed along the same trajectory, at the same speed, at about the same time. They just evolved slightly different foreheads. As we found out in one TNG episode that's because one alien race before them all seeded all the races we knew. This enabled them to be similar yet different in certain ways. Now forget about that ever happening for it shall never show up again in the entire series.
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Apr 23, 2024 18:26
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The Last Call posted:Now forget about that ever happening for it shall never show up again in the entire series. hmm
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Apr 23, 2024 18:34
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Big Mean Jerk posted:He also wanted Troi to have three breasts and Ferengi to have giant cocks, I think it’s safe to say a 100% unfiltered Roddenberry show would’ve been unwatchable garbage cancelled 6 episodes in. That's the thing about both Star Trek and Star Wars that I weirdly enjoy is that both Unfiltered Gene and Unfiltered George are nightmarish gobbledygook visions of each man's mental illnesses that are utterly unpalatable outside of their audience of one.
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Apr 23, 2024 18:36
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I’ll take unfiltered George over unfiltered Gene any day. At least George’s hangups are largely harmless. Gene sounds like a real unbearable piece of poo poo and by most non-hagiographic accounts was.
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Apr 23, 2024 18:41
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Gaz-L posted:Yeah, I think that graph is missing a 'mean ratings for TV in general curve' as a point of comparison The other thing is that DS9 was syndicated, while Voyager aired on UPN and had essentially nationwide coverage. I've mentioned this before, but Deep Space 9 aired on WGN-9 in Chicago, and Way of the Warrior--you know, the Hail Mary season premiere that was the producers desperately trying to stave off cancellation--had its first airing at 3 a.m. on a Saturday morning there. Big Mean Jerk posted:I’ll take unfiltered George over unfiltered Gene any day. At least George’s hangups are largely harmless. Gene sounds like a real unbearable piece of poo poo and by most non-hagiographic accounts was. Never forget that during his divorce, Gene offered the rights to Star Trek to his ex Eileen in lieu of alimony (which he couldn't afford to pay, because he was broke). Except the rights to Star Trek were effectively worthless because this was in the immediate aftermath of the show's cancellation in 1969. Timby fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Apr 23, 2024 |
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Apr 23, 2024 18:54
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Halloween Jack posted:Now I want to find that old b&w shareware Star Trek game. The one where you just roam a procedurally generated star map fighting Klingons and refueling at space stations. I know you can find EGA Trek all over the internet, including https://archive.org/details/msdos_EGATrek_1992. (That one's the genericized version where you're the "USS Lexington" fighting "Mongols", but gameplay's the same otherwise.)
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Apr 23, 2024 19:11
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Halloween Jack posted:Now I want to find that old b&w shareware Star Trek game. The one where you just roam a procedurally generated star map fighting Klingons and refueling at space stations. Trek? My Dad had this on his DOS computer and I never quite understood how to play it.  https://www.myabandonware.com/game/trek-3ud
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Apr 23, 2024 19:14
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Thaddius the Large posted:And the buggering. So, so much buggering. We already have Riker though?
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Apr 23, 2024 19:17
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The Last Call posted:As we found out in one TNG episode that's because one alien race before them all seeded all the races we knew. This enabled them to be similar yet different in certain ways. Yeah, about that...
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Apr 23, 2024 19:27
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Powered Descent posted:Yeah, about that... Ohhh what did I miss.
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Apr 23, 2024 19:27
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The Last Call posted:Ohhh what did I miss. The current seasonal plotline on Discovery is about them.
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Apr 23, 2024 19:31
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MikeJF posted:The current seasonal plotline on Discovery is about them. Figures. I need to catch up on Discovery and SNW.
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Apr 23, 2024 19:34
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Well, SNW anyways
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Apr 23, 2024 19:34
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:Trek? My Dad had this on his DOS computer and I never quite understood how to play it. I think it might have been a really obscure game called Star Trek Plus. There's barely any information on that game and no screenshots of the actual gameplay, but the premise--destroy Klingon ships and resupply at starbases--is most of the gameplay. I think you could also mine dilithium from planets? I also found that trivia game I mentioned! I had no idea, but there were apparently dozens of unlicensed Star Trek games made in the 70s and 80s. It must have been about as popular for unlicensed adaptations as Dungeons & Dragons.
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Apr 23, 2024 19:39
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Halloween Jack posted:No, this was on an Apple II (System 6 or 7, I think) and it was a top-down strategy game. It might have been a version of Netrek or Rescue!, but the screenshots I've seen of those games don't quite match what I remember. There were so many variations on that game, made for every computer platform in existence, usually shareware or freeware programmed by amateurs. The early ones were text mode, some monochrome and some in color, some later ones had graphics overlaying the gameplay, some had sound (PC speaker beeps, at least), some had an extra feature or two that the coder thought would be cool, but all variations on the same theme of shooting Klingon ships on a top-down grid. I had a text mode DOS one where I guess the programmer was worried about being sued so the names were all replaced, like the Klingons were "Megatons". I wish you the very best of luck in tracking down the exact variation you remember. It may or may not even exist anymore.
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Apr 23, 2024 19:49
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I’ll take unfiltered George over unfiltered Gene any day. At least George’s hangups are largely harmless. Gene sounds like a real unbearable piece of poo poo and by most non-hagiographic accounts was. Weirdly I think a lot of what typifies most of George Lucas's great work is that while so much of it was new and wild, it was often at every step of the way heavily derivative. I think it's better than a lot of the original works that inspired it, and really refined a lot of concepts, but all the inspiration is lying around in the open for people to follow up on. Star Trek it's a lot more obtuse to follow up on the inspirations. The whole original "wagon train" concept is referencing things that have been kinda buried in pop culture, and then the specific aesthetics of the show were generally purposefully weird and bizarre with bright surreal colors rather than coming from anywhere in specific. And then there were many more creatives on the show getting their own piece in; individual writers seem to have had a lot of freedom to do whatever, and it seems like a lot of episodes were more outright original concepts and fairly direct allegories.
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Apr 23, 2024 19:58
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Soul Dentist posted:I'd like to see the opposite where an Age of Sail culture is Uplifted to warp capability and maintains every aspect of naval tradition, including rigging, hardtack, cannonade broadsides and rum/lash motivation I mean, the Honor Harrington books are pretty much this. Hornblower in space explicitly.
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Apr 23, 2024 20:19
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Wikipedia has average season ratings every year. I plotted the top-rated show for each year here, you can see that the rise of FOX (+WB, UPN) and cable really did splinter the landscape quite a bit in the late-80s and 90s.
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Apr 23, 2024 20:41
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Halloween Jack posted:There are so many things that Roddenberry apparently didn't want to be part of Star Trek, including zippers, that it makes me wonder what a Trek series would look like if every episode had to satisfy his conception of it 100%. Uncharitably, it seems like every episode would be some kind of psychosexual drama that happens due to the manipulations of godlike beings or people developing reality-warping superpowers. Troi gets mentally violated 25 times a year, plus one clip show
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Apr 23, 2024 22:31
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counterfeitsaint posted:Kinda sounds like the Ba'Ku from Insurrection, but not so much the age of sail aesthetic. Well, they're different in 2 ways: 1. It's not like the Ba'ku where they had the tech, flew to the planet then decided to become space Amish. These folks have the theoretical knowledge of how to build tech on par with the big powers in the Alpha Quadrent, but their culture is such that they don't see a need for it so they've never ACTUALLY built the stuff. Like, imagine having all the designs and equations for building a nuke from Los Alamos, but deciding "cool, we know how to do it, let's just stick that in a drawer". 2. IIRC, they're sapient otters or meercat type dudes. (It's been a little while, I was trying to get a game together and it fell through so I put my notes away)
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Apr 24, 2024 01:39
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That age of sail civilization sounds like a riff on that Harry Turtledove story where some aliens belly up to Earth in their gravity-controlling interstellar spaceship... which is made out of wood and has musketeers who troop out to form lines. I don't believe Turtledove explains what it is, but when Earth scientists analyze the ship it's a chorus of "god DAMMIT how the gently caress did we MISS that it's so OBVIOUS."
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Apr 24, 2024 02:29
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I feel like theoretical knowledge is pretty strongly linked to actual experimentation in all aspects of physics and engineering, and so knowing any decent amount about subspace means having built warp-capable devices just to learn about the physics
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Apr 24, 2024 02:31
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Nessus posted:That age of sail civilization sounds like a riff on that Harry Turtledove story where some aliens belly up to Earth in their gravity-controlling interstellar spaceship... which is made out of wood and has musketeers who troop out to form lines. Powered Descent posted:Look up the short story The Road Not Taken by Harry Turtledove.
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Apr 24, 2024 02:33
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The real problem is getting your hands on enough liftwood.
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Apr 24, 2024 03:15
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You just turn the ship upsidedown and it falls up, duh.
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Apr 24, 2024 03:24
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Oh tight. 
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Apr 24, 2024 03:36
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Treasure Planet was a pretty fun movie, it'd be neat to see more of that setting.
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Apr 24, 2024 03:47
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Admiralty Flag posted:
I mean, to be fair, Strange New Worlds is spending a lot of time missing the point of that episode too.
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Apr 24, 2024 07:07
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Angry Salami posted:I mean, to be fair, Strange New Worlds is spending a lot of time missing the point of that episode too. I'm not really happy with what they've done with the Gorn so far. Sure, they got good episodes out of their take, but we're not right yet. I do have some hope that we'll end up in a place where Kirk on Cestus III happens, but that's me trusting modern Trek producers. e. SlothfulCobra posted:Treasure Planet was a pretty fun movie, it'd be neat to see more of that setting. TP is Disney pissing away a perfectly good franchise. I'd have cheerfully watched as much as they'd made.
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Apr 24, 2024 08:12
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mllaneza posted:TP is Disney pissing away a perfectly good franchise. I'd have cheerfully watched as much as they'd made. It failed really badly though It's such a pretty film
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Apr 24, 2024 12:57
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Big Mean Jerk posted:At least George’s hangups are largely harmless. Racism.
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Apr 24, 2024 12:59
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Taear posted:It failed really badly though Yeah, there were ideas for a sequel, but the movie just didn't perform enough to justify returning to it.
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Apr 24, 2024 15:35
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SlothfulCobra posted:Yeah, there were ideas for a sequel, but the movie just didn't perform enough to justify returning to it. Treasure Planet was very, very expensive to make due to its innovative use and marriage of CG and traditional animation, the techniques for which Disney had to all but invent from scratch and invest a lot of pricey server time to produce. And then they released it two weekends after the second Harry Potter movie, anticipating that audiences would have seen HP2 and be ready to move on to the next big kid/family movie. That turned out to be a grave miscalculation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwJGeFPF4xc E: better video Lemniscate Blue fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Apr 24, 2024 |
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Apr 24, 2024 16:33
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My uncle took me to see Treasure Planet at a theatre but when we got there The Ring was playing and everyone at school had been talking about it. He let me go see it by myself while he saw Treasure Planet bc he had either already seen it or didn't like horror. At the time I thought it was the coolest thing he let me do that, never saw a movie alone before. But it was the last time I saw him cause he died in an accident before I saw him again. Took me a long time to watch it and I remember it being really good but not too many details because it fills me with such mad guilt for not seeing it with him because he really enjoyed it and I would have too. Now it's harder to enjoy because of my selfish kid cinema decision but one day I will take my nieces and nephews to see Treasure Planet.
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Apr 24, 2024 17:39
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It was really just a bad time for Disney overall. Their core audience was aging out and Pixar was sort of cannibalizing that sector with their slightly edgier, more mature style. And Dreamworks took that even further, out of literal spite. Furthermore, Don Bluth (also out of spite) beat them to the punch with Titan AE which had a lot of surface-level similarities (but also, once again, a bit edgier). Not that that movie was a success, mind you, but either way I think it hurt Treasure Planet's chances. I know I dismissed TP when it first came out, largely for the above reasons. I was very much in an anti-Disney phase and was very willing to overlook Titan AE's flaws because it was cooler than liking Disney. Watching TP with my kids, it definitely does have some flaws (including the extremely turn-of-the-milennium main character and Goo Goo Dolls music), but it's pretty serviceable and definitely deserved better than it got.
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Apr 24, 2024 18:05
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One of the saddest things about Treasure Planet bombing was that it essentially made Ron Clements and John Musker persona non grata around Disney for quite some time. (To date, they've only made The Princess and the Frog--at the behest of John Lasseter--and Moana since Treasure Planet.)
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Apr 24, 2024 18:40
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Timby posted:One of the saddest things about Treasure Planet bombing was that it essentially made Ron Clements and John Musker persona non grata around Disney for quite some time. (To date, they've only made The Princess and the Frog--at the behest of John Lasseter--and Moana since Treasure Planet.) Gosh I didn't even realize that. I'm glad they finally struck gold with Moana, aside from Frozen that's pretty much top-tier in terms of modern Disney successes. (Princess and the Frog not so much, even though I do like that one too.)
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Apr 24, 2024 18:54
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Sir Lemming posted:Gosh I didn't even realize that. I'm glad they finally struck gold with Moana, aside from Frozen that's pretty much top-tier in terms of modern Disney successes. (Princess and the Frog not so much, even though I do like that one too.) Yeah, it was a real shame. Basically, Musker and Clements had been pitching Treasure Planet since the early '90s, it was a real passion project ... and then it turned out to be the most expensive traditionally animated movie of all time and wound up losing Disney a gently caress-ton of money. So the two of them shouldered the blame, unfairly.
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Apr 24, 2024 20:09
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Timby posted:Yeah, it was a real shame. Basically, Musker and Clements had been pitching Treasure Planet since the early '90s, it was a real passion project ... and then it turned out to be the most expensive traditionally animated movie of all time and wound up losing Disney a gently caress-ton of money. So the two of them shouldered the blame, unfairly. I was reading DisneyWar and I think it mentions the idea being in the initial set of pitches where Little Mermaid came from, so possibly even since the late 80s.
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