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bladededge
Sep 17, 2017

im sorry every one. the throne of heroes ran out of new heroic spirits so the grail had to summon existing ones in swimsuits instead

PurpleXVI posted:

I remember when I was a kid and Starcraft 1 was my first PvP game played online, my dad saw me about to rage quit a match rather than playing it to the end, and told me that if I did that, he'd cut my internet connection and wasn't going to restore it at any point.

Taught me an important lesson about sportsmanship? Maybe?

Your father did an excellent job at parenting. No notes.

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BlazetheInferno
Jun 6, 2015
Know the difference between Ragequitting, and accepting that you're in a position where you can no longer reasonably win, and bowing out gracefully.

Basically, are you Alt-F4-ing, or GG-ing?

habeasdorkus
Nov 3, 2013

Royalty is a continuous shitposting motion.
They're two different things, even if both lead to the end of a game. Rage quitting is not great because you could very well still be in a recoverable state. There's value to learning to persevere even when you're in a rough spot, regardless of it being just a video game. Moreover, disconnecting instead of conceding back in early battle.net days would IIRC not count as a win/loss, so you're denying a victory to your opponent. Also, if you're saying nasty poo poo to the other person it's not in any way good, you're just being a jerk. OTOH, calmly realizing when you're comprehensively beaten and giving a gg as you concede is good sportsmanship.

As a kid playing OG SC and BW most of my PVP was in FFA rather than head to head, I was not very good and could not do micro at all but I got reasonably good at macro for all species. I don't recall disconnecting much if at all, or even conceding that often, because in a FFA if you're not coming in second there's value to staying in and hurting your killer's chances of winning by holding them off for as long as possible. I also liked the Starship Troopers maps where your entire goal was to last as long as possible against an infinite horde of Zerg.

habeasdorkus
Nov 3, 2013

Royalty is a continuous shitposting motion.

BlazetheInferno posted:

Know the difference between Ragequitting, and accepting that you're in a position where you can no longer reasonably win, and bowing out gracefully.

Basically, are you Alt-F4-ing, or GG-ing?

Exactly, this is much more pithily put than I did.

e: And so as not to triple post, Jesus Christ non-cinematic mode Kerrigan must have retained some Zerg spinal reinforcement mutations to be able to lug those cans around.

Grand Fromage
Jan 30, 2006

L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?


There was one time I was playing a 2v2 and my friend kept them distracted enough that I managed to pop a nydus canal in the enemy base and shove hundreds of zerglings through. It's the only time I managed that and the only Starcraft game I remember, what a glorious moment.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015

Runa posted:

Honestly it's more sporting to just admit when you've been brought to a point where you can't reasonably win, gg out then leave. At least have a modicum of respect for both your own time and theirs.

Alternatively, become meme like Idra.

Poil
Mar 17, 2007

habeasdorkus posted:

e: And so as not to triple post, Jesus Christ non-cinematic mode Kerrigan must have retained some Zerg spinal reinforcement mutations to be able to lug those cans around.
She probably just got a pair of banelings implanted.

Szarrukin
Sep 29, 2021

Poil posted:

She probably just got a pair of banelings implanted.

Boobanelings

SIGSEGV
Nov 4, 2010


Let's not overdo it too much.

aniviron
Sep 11, 2014

SIGSEGV posted:

Let's not overdo it too much.

I think you're on the wrong website.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

The culture on Something Awful has shifted a fair bit over the years, at least when it comes to tawdry humor.

GOI
Aug 26, 2015
Have to agree a bit more of not having Kerrigan though having her help out is also a nice thing.

Though to be fully fair since she isn’t involved in the evolution missions that is basically 11 missions out of like 27(if I counted missions right), she is not playable(well one of them she is in a bit with the crucible) though only 4 non optional ones(two of which are non base building missions though), so looking at it funny enough a decent amount of none Kerrigan stuff sadly most was quick not actual base building with Zerg

I do like the whole getting to use the queen bitch of the universe but having some more Zerg focused missions like say letting us play the queen rejoining the swarms missions would have been great.

Regalingualius
Jan 7, 2012

We gazed into the eyes of madness... And all we found was horny.




There’s an idea: evolution missions are presented as two queens from rival broods who each approach Kerrigan with their unique strains and a demonstration of their abilities (the current missions we have now). Then, whichever one she ultimately chooses immediately gets a followup cutscene or brief mission where that queen slaughters the strain you didn’t go with to collect their essence biomass so that she can jumpstart mass production.

BisbyWorl
Jan 12, 2019

Knowledge is pain plus observation.


Korhal 2: Death From Above

Video: Death From Above


Two missions to go.





Apparently Kerrigan's just held on to that projector the entire time?





You use words like weapons, Arcturus, but words cannot save you now.

Oh, I have other weapons. I just wanted to say goodbye, Kerrigan.





I gotta give Mengsk points for being a petty bitch like this. The instant the call ends he turned on his new superweapon.



The field will quickly kill any zerg who enters it.

Oh look, a new toy that fucks with the hive mind. Five minutes after Kerrigan said he'd probably use something to gently caress with the hive mind.



A diversion, to keep us from dealing with the Psi Destroyer.

Yes, and we're going to let them think we're diverted.

There's just one problem here:



Kerrigan just so happens to have some hive mind-free zerg on hand to effortlessly take it down, when Mengsk has zero possible way to even think such a thing was possible! This is the first time the primal zerg have been allowed to do anything in the field aside from Drop Pods, and there's a 50/50 chance Korhal is the first time you can even use that. Mengsk has been screwed from the moment we went to Zerus, and he didn't even know it.

The device uses this psi connection you share. But I do not have a psi connection. I will not need it.

At the end of the day, Mengsk isn't going to lose because Kerrigan was stronger than him or faster or more cunning.



Mengsk is going to lose because the writersZeratul handed Kerrigan a win button on a silver platter.











The Mutalisks last for like 5 seconds. Against stock zerg, the Psi Destroyer is untouchable.



And I think this is the reason why Mengsk had Jim tossed on a prison ship instead of locking him up on Korhal itself, even though it gave Kerrigan the chance to go and rescue him.





We're going to bring it offline, permanently.

Mengsk didn't need to stall Kerrigan forever, just long enough to finish the Psi Destroyer. The moment it's ready, Kerrigan is effectively stopped cold. Hell, he could probably just take the platform this thing is on and chase Kerrigan's Leviathan around to try and catch her in the field.



With Kerrigan stopped, all that's left for major opposition to his rule are the Raiders. But now Mengsk has footage of the merciless Queen of Blades, who slaughtered billions and devoured multiple Dominion worlds, attacking a Dominion ship for the singlular purpose of saving Jimmy! Donny once implied Jim and the Queen could be allies as part of his bit, but now Mengsk has solid proof to show the Dominion.



Once the field is down, I'll command the Swarm and destroy their defenses.

The Swarm can't get close to Korhal without getting torn apart, all public support of Raynor goes up in smoke, and what the hell can Valerian do without allies or forces?



Unfortunately, this plan hinged on the zerg not getting a massive retcon to their origins, so instead the Psi Destroyer will last for like 30 minutes and Mengsk's lifespan can probably be measured in hours.



Dehaka, much like Stukov, gets a single mission in the spotlight. Bizarrely, Zagara never gets to be playable in Heart, even though she has a hero unit in Domination.

Dehaka also has nine different unit lines that mention essence, so I'll count those once each.

Essence count: 112



Dehaka has a good bit of bulk, deals 25 (+25 vs Structure) to ground targets and 50 damage vs air, and his starting abilities are Mend and cliff jumping.







Two of the Marines here get unmarked lines of "Zerg!" "Here? That's impossible!"

















Keep me informed on its progress, Izsha. For now, I'm going to crush the Dominion.

I start off with two Hatcheries. Considering I'm still running Twin Drones, I'll be saturated in a blink.





This mission goes in phases. Do as much damage as possible while pushing towards the Psi Destroyer, have Dehaka take out a power link when the timer runs out, repeat.



Of course, opening the expansion takes priority.







The Dominion won't rebuild any lost buildings here, so taking out production is important.



Sure I lost pretty much my entire starting army, but Kerrigan still exists so it doesn't matter. It never matters. How can it matter when I have 800 life and 50 damage a hit four times a second?







And Kerrigan finishes off this first area just in time.



There's nothing stopping you from rushing for the Destroyer this early. Hell, the speedrun strat for this mission is to just rush Kerrigan in while using Kinetic Blast to snipe detectors while burrowing to let Mend tick.











The field starts off covering the first area, will slowly expand over time, and will actually tear apart anyone I send in there, even Kerrigan. It won't actually reach the Hatchery at my main, but pretty much everything in front of it is fair game and the Dominion will still send out attack waves so letting it get that far is a bad time.



Dehaka gets a second ability here, Drag.



It's Abduct.



Since this is just a massive batch of dead time for Kerrigan's side, I can make a big army for when Dehaka is done. The one issue is you have to be careful not to hit F2 on reflex, because it will grab Kerrigan's army and make them march right into the field.





I screw up while queuing up upgrades and get Dehaka killed. But since I'm on a time crunch here Dehaka respawns in half the time.



And as a bonus, Dehaka will get a new pack of zerg with each revive.

















This is not a mission you can casually use Mutas on. The place is loving packed with Vikings and Missile Turrets.



Mengsk finally remembers he has access to nukes.



Good job, idiot.



Mine's bigger.



Is this a pissing contest now?



Maybe if you tried to, like, sneak a Ghost into my mineral lines or something.



I finish clearing out this section before the field comes back.





Terrans, we will break your weapon again! We come for your power link!



Dehaka's third ability, Generate Spawns, unlocks here.





Essence count: 113

Dehaka just horks up two clones of himself.

Zurvan vomited mooks too, so I wonder if this is just a Thing primal zerg do?





And here are my reinforcements.



I have no idea why, but Dehaka just sorta... stops and stares at this one Marauder.



I had to manually order an attack for Dehaka to start moving again.









Mengsk has upgraded Thors.





Then Dehaka gets sniped by Banshees at the last minute.



But the other primals finish the job.











We don't rest until that hub is destroyed. All forces, strike now! For the Swarm!

And now I can take as much time as I want to finish the Destroyer.



Essence count: 114

And as a bonus, Dehaka joins in too!









And once I get close I can just click the Destroyer and win.









Zagara, report.

We are pushing the Dominion into the Imperial sector now.

Was that your last card, Mengsk? It wasn't good enough.





Death From Above - Complete the "Death From Above" mission in the Heart of the Swarm campaign.

Terran Up the Sky - Destroy 20 enemy structures before the 2nd Psi Destroyer field activation in the “Death From Above” mission.

Apex Predator - Don’t let Dehaka die while destroying a Power Link in the “Death From Above” mission on Normal difficulty.

Missing Link - Complete the "Death From Above" mission before destroying the final power link on Hard difficulty.

Primal Power - Destroy the third Power Link in the "Death From Above" mission in less than 18 minutes on Normal difficulty.

BisbyWorl fucked around with this message at 08:58 on May 1, 2024

Zulily Zoetrope
Jun 1, 2011

Muldoon
It's kind of wild that Kerrigan never seemed to have considered that Mengsk might have built another Psi-disruptor or similar anti-Zerg weapon. She did not seem to have any contingency thought out and just happened to be lucky enough that the essence boy had insisted on following her around. Likewise, Mengsk seems like that was the basket with all his eggs; has he done anything at all between lazily faking Jimbo's death and now?

They're supposed to be the top dogs of the Koprulu sector because they schemed their way there, and yet neither one is doing anything interesting or original.

Valerian is the only character with anything going on, even the big bad Duran went out with the oldest shapeshifter trick in the book.

habeasdorkus
Nov 3, 2013

Royalty is a continuous shitposting motion.
Nah.

Mengsk couldn't have been prepared for this because how was he to know that there even were non-hive mind Zerg. Meanwhile, Kerrigan was aware that Mengsk would try to pull something like this, which is part of why she had non-hive mind Zerg in her back pocket for when Mengsk used some psi-disruptor based tech. This part of the plot actually coheres and no one is holding the idiot ball. Instead, the problem lies with how Kerrigan ended up on Zerus in the first place. Make that work, and it's just Mengsk getting outfoxed despite having a pretty solid plan.

Also, this mission seems like hella fun to actually play.

gohuskies
Oct 23, 2010

I spend a lot of time making posts to justify why I'm not a self centered shithead that just wants to act like COVID isn't a thing.
I think you missed an 'essence' count after the last power link, when Dehaka joins Kerrigan for the final assault.

This would have been a great opportunity for a no-Kerrigan mission, make it more like the Stukov one with a bigger role for Dehaka and maybe use some of the primal Zerus zerg models and etc, really lean in on the primal pack being different somehow. Maybe tough to do that this late though.

DTurtle
Apr 10, 2011


BisbyWorl posted:

Korhal 2: Death From Above

And now I can take as much time as I want to finish the Destroyer.



And as a bonus, Dehaka joins in too!
Essence missed

So out of nowhere a new undefeatable super weapon is introduced and immediately destroyed.

It would have been much more effective to at the very least actually introduce it in game at the end of the previous mission.

Or, even better, make Kerrigan‘s first assault on Korhal FAIL. And therefore be receptive to Zeratul telling her to go to Zerus.

BisbyWorl
Jan 12, 2019

Knowledge is pain plus observation.


gohuskies posted:

I think you missed an 'essence' count after the last power link, when Dehaka joins Kerrigan for the final assault.

This would have been a great opportunity for a no-Kerrigan mission, make it more like the Stukov one with a bigger role for Dehaka and maybe use some of the primal Zerus zerg models and etc, really lean in on the primal pack being different somehow. Maybe tough to do that this late though.

DTurtle posted:

Essence missed

Noted, fixed.

Felinoid
Mar 8, 2009

Marginally better than Shepard's dancing. 2/10
So, I remember an earlier cutscene where Mengsk was looking out a window with the artifact sitting next to him. Does he still have it?

aniviron
Sep 11, 2014

Mengsk says that Kerrigan has killed thousands for her revenge. Man is he in for a rude surprise if any of his advisors tell him the real number.

Also holy poo poo Dehaka is almost tall enough to look a Thor in the cockpit? He seemed a lot smaller on the ship.

Zomborgon
Feb 19, 2014

I don't even want to see what happens if you gain CHIM outside of a pre-coded system.

BisbyWorl posted:

There's just one problem here:



Kerrigan just so happens to have some hive mind-free zerg on hand to effortlessly take it down, when Mengsk has zero possible way to even think such a thing was possible! This is the first time the primal zerg have been allowed to do anything in the field aside from Drop Pods, and there's a 50/50 chance Korhal is the first time you can even use that. Mengsk has been screwed from the moment we went to Zerus, and he didn't even know it.

Blame Zeratul('s new writing direction). It's not completely out of nowhere, we did go to Zerus- and pick up a number of other approaches to the swarm besides- explicitly to "evolve" beyond Brood War or De-Infested Kerrigan.

It just so happens that one of those stuck. Turns out having a black ops mini-swarm helps a lot. Could just as easily have been that super-Infested Terran sleeper agents would be the key to a victory, in another circumstance. Sadly, it's not Stukov's time to shine anymore.

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!
You know, for all the "blar blar blar gather their essence blar blar blar"... the Zerg never really do much "essence gathering" outside of evolution missions. The early missions have you unlocking units, but that's largely just ones that already exist, you just need to fetch the blueprints. You're never really incorporating parts of the enemy or their genetics into the swarm.

Maybe it would've been interesting to have had a mechanic like the GLA vehicles in C&C Generals where defeated enemies leave behind "essence"(scrap in C&CG) and whatever unit heads over it first gets a relevant bonus. Generic terran infantry might be a health boost, protoss might be a speed boost, ghosts and banshees might give an AoE damage field(because of psychic potential getting hoovered up) and so on, or you could have advanced Zerg upgrades only unlock once you've gathered X units of Essence, as a sort of tertiary per-mission currency.

I don't know, it just feels like a disjoint between storytelling and mechanics, not to mention the whole bit that Infested Terrans only ever really show up as a story thing. You can't even infest command centers in SC2, can you? Even though that was already a super niche mechanic in 1.

Falcorum
Oct 21, 2010
Impossible Creatures but with Zerg would probably have been quite the sight to behold

DonVincenzo
Nov 12, 2010

Super Monster
The Absolute Guardian of the Universe
Friend of All Children
Genewars but with Zerg, try not to lose too much of your staff to the wild creatures you're trying to study...

Kith
Sep 17, 2009

You never learn anything
by doing it right.


Here's the thing about Mengsk's Psi Destroyer plan: all it takes to gently caress it up is a force of non-Hivemind Zerg.

There are a LOT of things that are non-Hivemind Zerg.

The Primal Zerg Are Finally Useful plotline could have just as easily been any number of things. Mira Han, for example. Maybe Raynor showing compassion and understanding about what Kerrigan thought she had to do and not throwing a tantrum that his girlfriend had scales again. Zeratul, even.

Hell, Heart could have been about Kerrigan ripping out the influence of the Overmind entirely and transforming the Zerg into a race of individuals; still united in purpose, but no longer tethered to each other. The story could have had a secondary theme about personhood and cooperation and the heart in working towards common goals, and the climax of that theme being Mengsk's superweapon doing gently caress-all to Kerrigan's new Swarm. Or at least having a reduced impact such that it only really works on lesser Zerg so you're forced to use more technical, more "evolved" units that can think for themselves, like Queens.

But nah, Dinosaur Special Ops as a Deus Ex Machina set up because of THE PROPHECY.

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011

PurpleXVI posted:

You know, for all the "blar blar blar gather their essence blar blar blar"... the Zerg never really do much "essence gathering" outside of evolution missions. The early missions have you unlocking units, but that's largely just ones that already exist, you just need to fetch the blueprints. You're never really incorporating parts of the enemy or their genetics into the swarm.

Maybe it would've been interesting to have had a mechanic like the GLA vehicles in C&C Generals where defeated enemies leave behind "essence"(scrap in C&CG) and whatever unit heads over it first gets a relevant bonus. Generic terran infantry might be a health boost, protoss might be a speed boost, ghosts and banshees might give an AoE damage field(because of psychic potential getting hoovered up) and so on, or you could have advanced Zerg upgrades only unlock once you've gathered X units of Essence, as a sort of tertiary per-mission currency.

I don't know, it just feels like a disjoint between storytelling and mechanics, not to mention the whole bit that Infested Terrans only ever really show up as a story thing. You can't even infest command centers in SC2, can you? Even though that was already a super niche mechanic in 1.

Infestors spawn infested terrans, if I recall correctly? Bibsy just isn't bothering to use them because with Kerrigan on the field other spellcasters are basically a liability.

Having the Swarm actually adopt their enemies' traits would be neat, but hard to fit in with the factional setup of Starcraft. The Terrans are all just humans that are already established to have barely anything to offer the Swarm, and Protoss are explicitly not compatible with how the Swarm works. You'd have to add a wider variety of creeps on the map to pull that off, and that's much more of a Warcraft 3 thing.
They flirted with the idea way back on Kaldir where you had to kill some fuzzy guys to get adaptations for your Swarm to survive the cold, but didn't really do more than that? I dunno, I could see repeating that getting stale quickly.


Kith posted:

Hell, Heart could have been about Kerrigan ripping out the influence of the Overmind entirely and transforming the Zerg into a race of individuals; still united in purpose, but no longer tethered to each other. The story could have had a secondary theme about personhood and cooperation and the heart in working towards common goals, and the climax of that theme being Mengsk's superweapon doing gently caress-all to Kerrigan's new Swarm. Or at least having a reduced impact such that it only really works on lesser Zerg so you're forced to use more technical, more "evolved" units that can think for themselves, like Queens.

I was thinking during this update, this mission would be a fantastic capstone to a more thematically-coherent version of the campaign where Kerrigan is rebuilding the swarm to not rely so much on a single overarching will. Since that is essentially what she's done with her war council, and it would mean the Swarm means something besides being Kerrigan's personal weapon.

Torchlighter
Jan 15, 2012

I Got Kids. I need this.

Zulily Zoetrope posted:

It's kind of wild that Kerrigan never seemed to have considered that Mengsk might have built another Psi-disruptor or similar anti-Zerg weapon. She did not seem to have any contingency thought out and just happened to be lucky enough that the essence boy had insisted on following her around. Likewise, Mengsk seems like that was the basket with all his eggs; has he done anything at all between lazily faking Jimbo's death and now?


Note that this is a Psi Destroyer, and Kerrigan has made some changes to the Swarm that would actually prevent things like the Psi Disruptor from being as effective against her Swarm. To a certain extent, it's not exactly a problem with an internal solution: Kerrigan's ability to control the swarm is at odds with the things she would need to do to render the Swarm immune, and conversely against a Psi Disruptor Kerrigan doesn't entirely need to make adjustments, since destroying one could be done simply by throwing enough zerg at it that turning feral just makes them destroy the disruptor in a frenzy. A Psi Destroyer that rips Zerg apart via a psionic connection? Not really a thing Psionic connections have shown to be capable of doing (except explicitly with how the Dark Templar could kill Cererbrates because of something unique to the way they channeled energy, but let's ignore that little detail). Also to a certain extent it's a gameplay conceit: Blizzard loves their fields that rip your troops apart but can be taken out, ever since Dalaran in WC3.

Tenebrais posted:

Infestors spawn infested terrans, if I recall correctly? Bibsy just isn't bothering to use them because with Kerrigan on the field other spellcasters are basically a liability.

Having the Swarm actually adopt their enemies' traits would be neat, but hard to fit in with the factional setup of Starcraft. The Terrans are all just humans that are already established to have barely anything to offer the Swarm, and Protoss are explicitly not compatible with how the Swarm works.

Not entirely impossible with the way the factions are set up in Starcraft, as we'll see later. But also hahahaha yeah it sure is weird how Terrans get infested at the drop of a hat but we've literally never seen a Protoss get infested (because Hybrid aren't Protoss being infested somehow, they are something different). One wonders what the Overmind was talking about with that.

BlazetheInferno
Jun 6, 2015
In regards to this being Dehaka's only appearance in-mission... Imma just quote him from Heroes of the Storm.

"I followed Queen of Blades to collect essence. Traveled across sector... but left leviathan only once, to destroy terran machines. Should have been more proactive. "

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012



habeasdorkus posted:

Nah.

Mengsk couldn't have been prepared for this because how was he to know that there even were non-hive mind Zerg. Meanwhile, Kerrigan was aware that Mengsk would try to pull something like this, which is part of why she had non-hive mind Zerg in her back pocket for when Mengsk used some psi-disruptor based tech. This part of the plot actually coheres and no one is holding the idiot ball. Instead, the problem lies with how Kerrigan ended up on Zerus in the first place. Make that work, and it's just Mengsk getting outfoxed despite having a pretty solid plan.

Also, this mission seems like hella fun to actually play.

Yeah I think characterizing this as writer fiat is unfair. We've got the benefit of being able to point at printed manuals from 1996 and say "see this is a retcon!" but honestly, this all comes down to the oldest trick in the book: knowing something your enemy doesn't. Mengsk doesn't know Kerrigan found non-hive-mind "Zerg" and allied with them. He built his weapon on the fair assumption that all Zerg are a hive mind.

Lambast the prophecy ball all you want--it deserves it--but the structure and narrative of this mission is fine.

DTurtle posted:

Or, even better, make Kerrigan‘s first assault on Korhal FAIL. And therefore be receptive to Zeratul telling her to go to Zerus.

That would have been cool.

Felinoid posted:

So, I remember an earlier cutscene where Mengsk was looking out a window with the artifact sitting next to him. Does he still have it?

:allears:

SteveSteveSteve
Sep 6, 2023

BlazetheInferno posted:

In regards to this being Dehaka's only appearance in-mission... Imma just quote him from Heroes of the Storm.

"I followed Queen of Blades to collect essence. Traveled across sector... but left leviathan only once, to destroy terran machines. Should have been more proactive. "

Also this one, even if partly-joking:
"Primal zerg do not have a psionic connection. Do not need it. My pack has family texting plan. "
(I hope he is not a customer of CommandCenterCast.)

bladededge
Sep 17, 2017

im sorry every one. the throne of heroes ran out of new heroic spirits so the grail had to summon existing ones in swimsuits instead

Zulily Zoetrope posted:

Likewise, Mengsk seems like that was the basket with all his eggs; has he done anything at all between lazily faking Jimbo's death and now?

He's been offscreen, which means he's been doing exactly as much as, say, the Shakuras Protoss, or the Umojans.

Torchlighter posted:

But also hahahaha yeah it sure is weird how Terrans get infested at the drop of a hat but we've literally never seen a Protoss get infested (because Hybrid aren't Protoss being infested somehow, they are something different). One wonders what the Overmind was talking about with that.

This is actually a plot point carried over from SC1. Zerg can't just absorb protoss mass, they aren't compatible like that.
The Overmind had to get all fancy with leftover Xel'naga tech left behind on the protoss homeworld to get that going. Think The Process from Star Control 2 but a lot less consent between involved parties. Original plan before that was to simulate what the protoss could do using terrans instead, a latent psionic race, though that got stopped at the prototype stage (Kerrigan) and she doesn't seem interested in continuing.

Duran/Narud turning out to be some sinister alien scientist with a mysterious master who could actually do it was a major reveal / sequel plot hook because it wasn't supposed to be possible to do that by in-universe rules.

So tl;dr no infest protoss was supposed to be a big deal major plot element which both the writers and everyone in universe forgot was a big deal.

bladededge fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Apr 27, 2024

Zulily Zoetrope
Jun 1, 2011

Muldoon

Warmachine posted:

Yeah I think characterizing this as writer fiat is unfair. We've got the benefit of being able to point at printed manuals from 1996 and say "see this is a retcon!" but honestly, this all comes down to the oldest trick in the book: knowing something your enemy doesn't. Mengsk doesn't know Kerrigan found non-hive-mind "Zerg" and allied with them. He built his weapon on the fair assumption that all Zerg are a hive mind.

No, Mengsk not anticipating the primal Zerg makes total sense, there's no reason he would've. My beef is more that this does not appear to be anything Kerrigan planned in advance, and chiefly that Dehaka doesn't do anything interesting as a hidden ace. As mentioned, literally anyone who is not a swarm Zerg could have done the same, and if he weren't there, Raynor or Valerian could have fit the role just as easy.

SIGSEGV
Nov 4, 2010


No one actually plans anything in here, Mengsk has the psi thing because the mission needs a gimmick, Kerrigan has a pack of special issue commandos because they wanted to noble savage the Zerg, someone had an idea for a mission that way. But at least the psi things showed up again, unlike the beam duel psi magic thing.

Torchlighter
Jan 15, 2012

I Got Kids. I need this.

bladededge posted:

Original plan before that was to simulate what the protoss could do using terrans instead, a latent psionic race, though that got stopped at the prototype stage (Kerrigan) and she doesn't seem interested in continuing.

Duran/Narud turning out to be some sinister alien scientist with a mysterious master who could actually do it was a major reveal / sequel plot hook because it wasn't supposed to be possible to do that by in-universe rules.

So tl;dr no infest protoss was supposed to be a big deal major plot element which both the writers and everyone in universe forgot was a big deal.

Kerrigan actually did continue the experiments in a short story set between games, so that's part of the explanation. As for Narud and his apparent forgetfullness, we are in the sequel and he is making hybrid, and they are literally called hybrid because they're protoss/Zerg, so something is going on.

But the main source of a lot of this is the Overmind, who has been retconned to hell, so make of that what you will.

BisbyWorl
Jan 12, 2019

Knowledge is pain plus observation.


Intermission 17



This'll be the last time we see the Leviathan like this.

Honestly, good riddance.

>Talk to Stukov.





There's no way we can win.

I got a prophecy that says otherwise.

Then why fight?

Because the only other option is to lie down and die.

Well, I never wanted to die lying down. So, fight a god to the bitter end? That sounds like a worthy death. I am with you.

>Talk to Izsha.





We've shattered the power of Mengsk. It will be up to the terrans to make something of the opportunity.

For the short time they'd have before Amon kills everyone.

That means nothing to the future of the Swarm.

True, but there are still broodmothers in orbit with their leviathans. The Swarm will continue, no matter what. And it will be changed forever.

>Examine Mengsk's Palace.



Soon, all the pain you've caused will come back to you.

>Talk to Zagara.





>Talk to Dehaka.



I collect much essence from following.

Essence count: 115



The essence still flows. I still change. I still follow.

Essence count: 116

That's all there is to say. Now it's time for action.

>Talk to Abathur.





Queen determines purpose. When purpose changes, Swarm changes. This, our function.

You know, sometimes you're not so bad, Abathur.

Unclear.

And that's what everyone has to say.



So I make one final tweak to Kerrigan's loadout.



And head out.



Only the palace defenses remain.

BisbyWorl fucked around with this message at 08:59 on May 1, 2024

idonotlikepeas
May 29, 2010

This reasoning is possible for forums user idonotlikepeas!
Spawn Leviathan is my favorite Kerrigan ability; I don't even care how good it is or isn't. (It's pretty good, but I'd use it anyway.)

bladededge
Sep 17, 2017

im sorry every one. the throne of heroes ran out of new heroic spirits so the grail had to summon existing ones in swimsuits instead
Stukov feels like the one character that didn't get a personality retcon in SC2. Still the same dude. Wish he'd gotten more stuff to do.

Kith
Sep 17, 2009

You never learn anything
by doing it right.


BisbyWorl posted:

That means nothing to the future of the Swarm.

It definitely does, though. Mengsk's hold on the Dominion being broken means that the Dominion is less of a threat to the Zerg in numerous ways.

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SoundwaveAU
Apr 17, 2018

BisbyWorl posted:

You know, sometimes you're not so bad, Abathur.

Unclear.

Take the compliment, bro.

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