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painedforever posted:Is it possible to clear the whole map before the end? The computer will eventually cheat in units anyway, but can you clear the rest of it, and keep it clear? You can, in fact they added a set of achievements for every mission with the 10th anniversary and the one for Zero Hour is to wipe out every Hatchery on the map. There's just no point to it over making an Almighty Bunker Wall.
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Jun 10, 2023 07:01
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BisbyWorl posted:You can, in fact they added a set of achievements for every mission with the 10th anniversary and the one for Zero Hour is to wipe out every Hatchery on the map. The "Destroy 8 hatcheries" achievement was pretty darn hard to do on brutal, I tell ya what. Banelings and ultralisks galore. Also the "Don't lose or salvage a structure" one was pretty tough, can't lose focus for a second on brutal, whether its a stray couple of banelings hitting a bunker while you're not looking, or the zergling drop pods taking out a depot or a turret, there's a lot to take care of! I had to throw in the towel on doing them both in the same run and had to do them seperately.
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Jun 10, 2023 07:35
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kvx687 posted:I noticed a couple bits of interesting foreshadowing in the news ticker tape, I hadn't seen that previously. There's a few good jokes there throughout the game that you normally wouldn't notice. Blizzard put a surprising amount of effort into the strangest places. As a long time WoW fan, often the best stuff is the bits most away from the main effort and thus away from whatever mandates/demands/controls are going on corporate or otherwise. There's passionate people at Blizzard who want to put in the effort and make good stuff and they'll get hampered by higher ups for various reasons in various ways. In WoW, this manifests as the main story often being not great, but side quests and little things being incredibly well done at times.
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Jun 10, 2023 08:39
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Unless I'm completely misremembering, or it was in some side material, Starcraft 1 never brought up that Raynor was an outlaw before he was a law man. It's a fun little nugget and a common trope in Cowboy Movies, which again shows how deep into the Western genre Starcraft 2 is intending to go. OP mentioned it in a previous update, but this is where we get our first textual confirmation that Tychus spent the entirety of the first game and the Brood Wars on ice, and knows nothing but vague second-hand prison gossip about both the Zerg and Protoss, which is interesting given future events. The existence of Matt Horner as a character is fascinating to me, though I'm guessing OP will talk about it so I'll just say that and leave it for now. Also I fell in love when they showed off the new Battleship with this rescue. Also I love the Spine Crawlers, because while they are not as cool as a giant underground death tongue, they do help me get over the angst regarding whether or not I was placing my defenses optimally as a Zerg player, in much the same way the retractable supply depots and salvageable bunkers do when I play Terran. The ability to easily reposition quiets my brain worms, and you can't put a price on that.
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Jun 10, 2023 10:32
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The Protoss not being as smart or competent as they think they are is completely in character and also the reason for why a lot of things in Starcraft 1 and Brood War happened the way they did.
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Jun 10, 2023 10:45
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Man, I love StarCraft 2, the whole trilogy is great. Yeah, it stumbles in many places story-wise, but like Sanguinia I tend to look at it more positively then most. StarCraft 1 was a huge part of my gaming teens, I remember LAN parties, custom map creation, making silly gaming clans with people at my school... Good times. By the time SC2 finally came out, life and things were different, but I still loved it overall. Excited to follow this LP! By the way, I think you've left a dangling italics tag somewhere in the first post, BisbyWorl. It looks a bit broken with everything italicized.
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Jun 10, 2023 12:14
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Rythian posted:By the way, I think you've left a dangling italics tag somewhere in the first post, BisbyWorl. It looks a bit broken with everything italicized. Thanks, fixed that.
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Jun 10, 2023 12:26
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Sadly, the cruiser's missile barrage in this mission was something cut from release.  It was shown in early videos for the game as an alternative upgrade to the yamato cannon, swapping single-target damage for a massive area effect strike, but then it was removed and is now strictly a cutscene power the player never gets to use.SC2 also wastes little time showing its love affair of orbital drop pod assaults. Someone (probably several someones) at Blizzard is a big Warhammer 40k fan, and it shows.
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Jun 10, 2023 12:57
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I wonder if the spine crawlers looking like they are is going off an early sunken colony concept that they didn't have the tech to animate at the time, or if they changed it because the sunken colony design doesn't fit with the new way crawlers operate. It'd look better if the big spine was slamming down to hit enemies in a line rather than hunting and pecking. I can't imagine it'd be that hard to balance, it's no worse than putting a firebat in a bunker (admittedly, not something you can do in SC2's multiplayer).
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Jun 10, 2023 15:58
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PurpleXVI posted:The Protoss not being as smart or competent as they think they are is completely in character and also the reason for why a lot of things in Starcraft 1 and Brood War happened the way they did. Yeah, the Protoss Conclave was a big reason why poo poo went badly for a while, those guys were pretty dumb.
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Jun 10, 2023 15:59
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quote:Weapon and Armor upgrades are the only thing you have to research in every mission. Which is 10/10 solution and one of many excellent changes in SC2 gameplay. I would really like to recommend you all Moebius mod, which cranks the difficulty up (Zero Hour finally has other objectives than "don't fall asleep"), adds some extra objectives to most missions and, last but not least, pimps up almost every Terran unit, not only giving them Protoss-like shields, but also fancy abilities, for example Moebius!Medics can heal machines and set turrets and Moebius!Marines use laser rifles and have self-healing skill.
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Jun 10, 2023 16:16
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Tenebrais posted:I wonder if the spine crawlers looking like they are is going off an early sunken colony concept that they didn't have the tech to animate at the time, or if they changed it because the sunken colony design doesn't fit with the new way crawlers operate. Isn't that an immobile lurker?
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Jun 10, 2023 16:32
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ilmucche posted:Isn't that an immobile lurker? It would actually just be a lurker constrained by taking damage off creep, since spine and spore crawlers can actually move.
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Jun 10, 2023 16:47
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Cythereal posted:Sadly, the cruiser's missile barrage in this mission was something cut from release. It's worth noting the laser-spam shown from the Hyperion isn't actually a special ability, it's the unit's standard attack pattern, blasting huge barrages of lasers in an area doing splash damage where they land rather than targeting specific units. Regular Battlecruisers are different, still with a spammed barrage of many lower-damage lasers, but that attack is focused on a single target rather than blasting in a huge area. Also, fun lore Nitpick that campaign mods tend to fix: The Hyperion is an old Behemoth-class Battlecruiser once used by Mengsk, but stolen by Raynor when they parted ways. However, the standard Battlecruiser model in Starcraft 2 (used here to represent the Hyperion) is actually a newer class of Battlecruiser developed by the Dominion - the Minotaur. Though the Hyperion later received a lore-accurate Behemoth-class model later on, it was never officially back-ported to this brief appearance in this mission.
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Jun 10, 2023 19:58
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BlazetheInferno posted:It's worth noting the laser-spam shown from the Hyperion isn't actually a special ability, it's the unit's standard attack pattern, blasting huge barrages of lasers in an area doing splash damage where they land rather than targeting specific units. Regular Battlecruisers are different, still with a spammed barrage of many lower-damage lasers, but that attack is focused on a single target rather than blasting in a huge area. Yeah but the cruiser's normal attacks look very different. That's the missile pod ability from early videos of the game that got cut from release.
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Jun 10, 2023 20:09
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Intermission 1 Video: Escape from Mar Sara    We may have gotten off the ground, but we're not out of the woods yet. ALL SHALL SUBMIT! DIIIIIIIIIIIIIIE!      Matt Horner is another side story character, but one with a bit more history. He was introduced in 2006's Queen of Blades, a former Sons of Korhal member who left with Raynor at the end of the Terran campaign and ended up as Jim's second in command. He's the boy scout of the group, the guy with a strict moral code in a band of rebels.          Hmm. I just noticed that Tychus' middle finger is noticably clipping into that.                                          Well your friend has a criminal record as long as... Mine? Believe me, if Tychus Findlay wanted me dead, I'd be dead already. Understood, sir.  We finally made it to the Hyperion! This will be our base of operations for the majority of the game. >Talk to Tychus.    Yeah - what, did you bust the zipper or something? Ok, so I might've had a little help when I broke out of prison. Let's just say it came at a price. I get to stay locked up in this suit 'til I pay off all my debts...At no point will Starcraft 2 go into the whole 'how does he shower if he's stuck in the suit 24/7,' issue. Tyranny this isn't. And who's collectin' those debts? Who sprung you? Them Moebius boys, of course. I didn't just run into them in a museum, y'know. They want them artifacts somethin' fierce.And with Mengsk pulling the strings here, it's starting to sound like he wants those artifacts, and is using Moebius as a middleman to keep Raynor from getting suspicious. Your debts better not bite us in the rear end, Tychus. Coverin' for your shenanigans ain't part of the deal.Dramatic irony! Also, you may have noticed that guy with a suspiciously unique design in the background.  A few people can be talked to even if they aren't marked, but they just get a quick line instead of a full conversation. Stetmann is someone we'll be seeing more of after the next mission. He's voiced by the same guy who does Robin in Teen Titans. Just your fun fact of the day. >Talk to Horner. Just how bad is it, Matt? Zerg are attacking all over the sector, sir. Mengsk pulled the fleet back to protect the Dominion core-worlds, leaving the fringe worlds to fend for themselves. It's a nightmare. There's no way we can stop an alien invasion with one capital ship and a handful of volunteers. 'Best we just stay clear, partner. We can earn ourselves a fortune working for Moebius while this whole thing blows over. You don't get it, convict - this isn't gonna just 'blow over'! The zerg won't stop until we're all dead!Matt frequently calls Tychus convict instead of his name, which is hella rude. Don't worry, Matt - we ain't sittin' this one out. But we're not exactly in tip top shape either. We'll earn some cash and build up our forces so we can make a difference when it counts.>Examine Mission Archives.  The Mission Archives, are... well... archives for missions. It lets you watch old cinematics and replay missions.  There are three other rooms on the ship, but two of them are locked out for a bit. >Head to Armory.     What do ya got for me, Swann? Rory Swann is another new face, but this time he's 100% new, no side stories here. He's the tech guy. He builds stuff. He has a clamp for a left arm. Not much more than that.   If take a close look at the console, you can get a sneak preview of some units we'll be getting in the future.   I've heard that before, brother. It's different this time.   Welcome to the Armory! This is where we'll be blowing the majority of our hard earned cash.  Also, you can click on James at any time to get quips like this, if the whole 'the player and Jim are one and the same' thing hasn't clicked yet. >Talk to Swann.   Read: We'll be getting a new unit with every mission. >Examine Armory Console.  Here's the real meat and potatoes of Wings. At the Armory I can buy permanent upgrades for my units.  Each unit has two upgrades, which are automatically available when we obtain them. The Marine has Stimpacks and Combat Shields (+10 life, 60K credits) while the Medic gets Advanced Medic Facilities (No longer requires a Tech Lab to build, 60K credits) and Stabilizer Medpacks. (Medic heals are faster and use less energy, 105K credits)  The Base tab, meanwhile, starts off with only Bunker upgrades, and will steadily fill out as we complete more missions. The Bunker has Projectile Accelerator and Neosteel Bunker. (+2 Bunker slots, 50K credits) There's nowhere near enough credits in the entire game to grab everything and no way to refund purchases, so you have to pick and choose what to grab. Taking every upgrade you can for bio units will make that side strong, sure, but that means you won't have a lot of cash to throw at mech units. Advanced Medic Facilities, for example, sounds nice, but there will never be a moment where you need to use a Reactor to rush out a bunch of Medics really fast so its a 60K investment that you won't get much use out of.  My haul from Mar Sara is just enough to grab Stims and Neosteel Bunker, giving me a hefty boost on both offense and defense.  With my money spent and nowhere else to check, it's time to check the next mission.  We've picked up a distress call from the planet Agria. There's a colony there under attack by the zerg. Your convict buddy Tychus lined up a mission retrieving another artifact. It's on a protoss shrine-world called Monlyth.Or missions, I should say. The mission format is one of SC2's biggest gameplay enhancements, bringing a more freeform structure and letting you pick how each campaign plays out. There are some restrictions, missions are divided into chains which has to be done in order, but clever mission routing can let you pull off stuff like taking Battlecruisers into tiny baby missions. The problem is that is heavily limits the story, as the game can't take into account every possible permutation of missions. As a result, each mission chain is effectively siloed off from each other and doing one will, at most, result in small comments in another.   ...The Dominion abandoned us here ...We're just a small farming colony. We've got to evacuate before we're overrun....If you can hear this message, please help us!We can pick between getting the good* old Firebat by helping Ariel Hanson, *May actually be worse in new and exciting ways!  Supposedly there's protoss guarding it — a group of fanatics, call themselves the Tal'darim. Now don't get all sentimental thinking these Tal'darim are your old protoss buddies... 'cause they ain't.Or go do a token TvP mission and get the entirely new Marauder. Hey, remember when I mentioned thread participation? Well here it is! You guys get to choose my mission order for the entire trilogy! 
BisbyWorl fucked around with this message at 07:14 on Jun 16, 2023 |
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Jun 11, 2023 03:46
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Need a light?
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Jun 11, 2023 03:58
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I will say having a hub and techs/upgrades between missions was a fun idea, that stuff being 'diagetic' for the most part
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Jun 11, 2023 04:13
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I really like the freeform mission setup. It really adds variety to campaign replays because going in different order completely changes your available options for a given mission. But as we'll see, the missions also tend to be balanced well enough that you're not going to screw yourself even if your mission order means you end up missing out on key units for a long time - some units might make certain missions easier of course, but I never felt like there was a mission where I was in deep poo poo because I hadn't yet unlocked X or Y. As for upgrades, Stimpacks are a no-brainer since they're basically the defining feature of Marines. Interesting you took the Bunker personnel upgrade though. I personally never bothered to take it, since I always found that four in a Bunker was plenty when supported by SCV's and other units.
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Jun 11, 2023 04:21
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Yeah this is one of the big reasons I love Wings so much. There's a lot of wild poo poo you can do by going in certain orders to bring specific units to specific missions and the majority of the upgrades are actually quite good so you can really push out performance out of the units you like the most. There's some stuff that obviously stands out above the rest like the Marine upgrades, but this is a great idea that the other two campaigns still do well.
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Jun 11, 2023 05:05
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MagusofStars posted:As for upgrades, Stimpacks are a no-brainer since they're basically the defining feature of Marines. Interesting you took the Bunker personnel upgrade though. I personally never bothered to take it, since I always found that four in a Bunker was plenty when supported by SCV's and other units. Bunker slots have a dirt cheap credit cost, are useable in all but a very small handful of missions, and let you cram a lot more damage into every bunker. Depending on what mission wins the vote, I might even grab the range bonus in the next Intermission.
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Jun 11, 2023 05:10
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Hmmm... do we give you the other bread and butter unit you need to create a deathball that can roll the rest of the game? Or do we go with some losers in a bulky suit that think they're better than they really are? Hell yes, we're getting devil dogs and charbroiling everything in our way! E: Also it's funny how I also noticed the filled out computer screen and had a completely different reaction. That jerk swan is holding out on us! He doesn't need to get plans, he's just locked our login out of the good stuff! FoolyCharged fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Jun 11, 2023 |
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Jun 11, 2023 06:50
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I'm gonna vote Marauders because they're an incredibly defining unit for Terran and also do good work on many of the missions in the campaign, whereas Firebats are much more situational. Bioball is so fuckin good
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Jun 11, 2023 07:35
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Every time I hear the term stimpack the voice line plays in my head. Also Firebats because it'll annoy you.
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Jun 11, 2023 07:50
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does Scott Menville do any other voices? I mean, the one voice he does works great whenever he's cast, but I can't think of any other role where he sounds different
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Jun 11, 2023 08:03
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Wait a moment, I didn't quite remember the details of this but... Casualties in the billions within at most a few days? Yeah, someone really loved Warhammer 40k because we're getting these insane inflated numbers getting thrown around that clearly no one understands. With regards to the upgrades, I like the idea that it gives a sense of progression and lets you "customize" your loadout to your playstyle, but I felt it was very rare where I was in doubt about what to pick. Generally the upgrades had very clear and obvious superior choices that would let you win the game better and more easily.
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Jun 11, 2023 09:29
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I don't know if I missed it or if it's explained later or if it's just a mystery, but why is Tychus forced to wear power armour all the time? It leads to awkward questions like "why are you wearing power armour all the time?" and doesn't seem to have any upsides for Mengsk
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Jun 11, 2023 09:34
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presumably it means that Tychus is always tracked and maybe can be terminated at the press of a button, smells like a shithouse.
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Jun 11, 2023 09:40
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By popular demand posted:presumably it means that Tychus is always tracked and maybe can be terminated at the press of a button, smells like a shithouse. Tracking him by the smell
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Jun 11, 2023 09:44
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One of the big issues with the mission structure in WoL is that the different mission chains have some pretty wild differences in tone, leading to Raynor alternating between being extremely depressed and having a great time. I voted for Marauders, because there's another feature that gets unlocked by beating one more mission that I've always felt was more helpful in the Firebat mission.
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Jun 11, 2023 10:24
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They really made firebats crap. I've seen mods that change just a tiny tiny thing and suddenly they're useful. At least their mission is more fun than the marauder one, in my opinion.FoolyCharged posted:Also it's funny how I also noticed the filled out computer screen and had a completely different reaction. That jerk swan is holding out on us! He doesn't need to get plans, he's just locked our login out of the good stuff!  Qwertycoatl posted:I don't know if I missed it or if it's explained later or if it's just a mystery, but why is Tychus forced to wear power armour all the time? It leads to awkward questions like "why are you wearing power armour all the time?" and doesn't seem to have any upsides for Mengsk Poil fucked around with this message at 10:59 on Jun 11, 2023 |
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Jun 11, 2023 10:50
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Co-op did eventually find a way to make one specific Firebat useful, at least. Situational, but useful. I do like that there's almost always an organic reason in the story why any given mission unlocks a new unit, even if the logic does sometimes stretch a bit thin. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Jun 12, 2023 |
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Jun 11, 2023 12:07
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So i'm guessing that Matt Horner is supposed to be the Magistate stand-in from SC1 since they can't have the player character be a person?
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Jun 11, 2023 12:22
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Koorisch posted:So i'm guessing that Matt Horner is supposed to be the Magistate stand-in from SC1 since they can't have the player character be a person? Nah Matt's entirely separate. Canonically the Magistrate hosed off shortly after Raynor took the Hyperion and has been MIA ever since.
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Jun 11, 2023 12:28
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BisbyWorl posted:Canonically the Magistrate hosed off shortly after Raynor took the Hyperion and has been MIA ever since. Smartest person in the setting. "lmao, gently caress this, peace"
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Jun 11, 2023 12:40
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Koorisch posted:So i'm guessing that Matt Horner is supposed to be the Magistate stand-in from SC1 since they can't have the player character be a person? I think basically everyone comes to this conclusion. One wonders why the gently caress Matt isn't the Magistrate and what was Blizzard smoking. Anyways, SC1 Terran magistrate has hosed off, Brood War Terran player was presumably killed by Kerrigan, the SC1 and Brood War cerebrates (I don't think there's information on if they were the same cerebrate or different ones) are gone, SC1 Protoss player was Fenix IIRC* and I vaguely recall having heard the Brood War Protoss player is actually a character in Legacy. I should probably  Legacy and check out the campaign one of these days.*EDIT: I did not recall correctly, it was Artanis Omobono fucked around with this message at 14:08 on Jun 11, 2023 |
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Jun 11, 2023 13:20
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I think the SC1 Protoss executor was supposed to be Artanis? He only appears as a unit in the expansion while Fenix is alongside you the whole way. The Brood War executor is a character that'll cameo in this campaign. That said, I don't actually know where I heard this from, so I don't know if it's official.
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Jun 11, 2023 13:31
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Tenebrais posted:I think the SC1 Protoss executor was supposed to be Artanis? This is correct, I got my Protoss mixed up. I think he's still alive by SC2.
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Jun 11, 2023 14:08
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Omobono posted:This is correct, I got my Protoss mixed up. I'm now imagining that he's dead and what we see in void is an elaborate weekend at bernies act.
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Jun 11, 2023 14:13
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Koorisch posted:So i'm guessing that Matt Horner is supposed to be the Magistate stand-in from SC1 since they can't have the player character be a person? Canonically, Matt Horner's first in-game appearance was as First Officer on one of the ships Arcturus sent to help evacuate Mar Sara. Afterwards, he started working with Jim Raynor in the Sons of Korhal, and followed Jim when he defected following the betrayal of Kerrigan and genocide of Tarsonis. When Raynor's Raiders stole the Hyperion, Matt was assigned to run the ship and became its Captain. The Starcraft 1 LP currently in progress by JohnKilltrane decided to turn Horner into the Magistrate, but that is purely creative license rather than any indication of canon.
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Jun 11, 2023 15:44
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