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I would say in defense of WoL. The opening scene of Raynor with the picture is incredibly evocative of the story the game wants Jim to tell for someone completely new to starcraft. It becomes a garbage fire by early Hots, don't get me wrong, but that opening cutscene was excellent for getting its hooks in me as someone new to the franchise.
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Jun 1, 2023 11:20
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PurpleXVI posted:The "unit showcase mission" feels like design that Blizzard first experimented with in Warcraft 3, and honestly? I really don't like it. To me it means that until the very last couple of missions, everything feels like you're still playing a tutorial, because every mission is designed to give your latest toy some special attention rather than forcing you to engage some brain gears. I'm a fan of unit showcase if only because of how boring Heart of the Swarm is by comparison when you get roach hydra and it solves every mission instantly.
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Jun 17, 2023 21:22
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painedforever posted:So, you get limited cash throughout the campaign, right? Is it better to buy upgrades for units, or to buy mercenaries? There are some mercenaries that are horrifically broken and you should go out of your way to get them. A hugely important thing about mercs is that they deploy instantly upon payment in each map which allows you to achieve much faster timings on a lot of things. Typically though, there are units you'll want to upgrade because they're good units and units you won't because they're bad and the spare cash is good for mercenaries.
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Jun 19, 2023 01:13
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I used Firebats a tonne on Brutal. Just put them in bunkers and have them roast lings. Their issue is movement so just have poo poo come to you and get toasty. With the swarms that show up on that difficulty the AoE damage is just way more valuable than the range on marines.
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Jun 24, 2023 17:42
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I'll say again. The opinion of almost everyone I knew who had never played SC1 for WoL was almost universally positive. Deeply contrasting the opinion of those who'd played the first game.
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Jul 23, 2023 19:43
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Sometimes you need to hit someone with a wakeup super so that your opponent knows they need to respect it.
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Aug 18, 2023 16:53
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If evil why hot?
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Aug 21, 2023 15:40
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GodFish posted:Besides Tosh being a bro and Nova an ultra-cop, Tosh's mission is way more fun. I really disagree with this but I've played too much dota in my life.
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Aug 21, 2023 21:42
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Hots sucks because every mission with a base in that game is trivially beaten on brutal by spamming roach hydra.
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Aug 23, 2023 11:30
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BisbyWorl posted:
Complaining about getting dominated by a leggy blonde in a skintight suit, smh.
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Sep 2, 2023 13:33
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NewMars posted:The odin mission's pretty fun, weird plot holes aside. Actually, the one thing that does make sense there is the Odin itself. Militaristic authoritarians love their giant, impractical superweapons. That it's full of completely impractical parts is entirely sensical if you keep in mind that it's probably supposed to be a showpiece, never made for mass production. Instead, when you make something like this, it's to show off new, experimental technology and to push the limits of what you have. What's actually interesting is that it scales down into something legitimately useable, with, presumably, no flushing toilets onboard. Reminds me of a pretty great quote from the old Star Wars books: Han Solo posted:That's not what The Empire would have done, Commander. What the Empire would have done was build a super-colossal Yuuzhan Vong-killing battle machine. They would have called it the Nova Colossus or the Galaxy Destructor or the Nostril of Palpatine or something equally grandiose. They would have spent billions of credits, employed thousands of contractors and subcontractors, and equipped it with the latest in death-dealing technology. And you know what would have happened? It wouldn't have worked. They'd forget to bolt down a metal plate over an access hatch leading to the main reactors, or some other mistake, and a hotshot enemy pilot would drop a bomb down there and blow the whole thing up. Now that's what the Empire would have done.
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Sep 25, 2023 14:53
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Warmachine posted:All I can say is that the gameplay itself still holds up. No notes, SC/BW/2 are the gold standard of RTS gameplay in my opinion. Its very simple at the highest level, with complexity coming from how all the simple parts interact. I think Heart ironically ends up weaker primarily because of this because it's just so easy in that game to two base Hydra Roach and kill everything on the map without breaking a sweat.
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Sep 27, 2023 15:35
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Eh, I don't really see a problem in the Viking mission being contrived to have Vikings be awesome. Because Vikings are still really loving good outside of that mission.
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Nov 5, 2023 02:50
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I feel, in the vein of strategy games, Triangle Strategy made quite a strong attempt at showing your choices matter, with the game branching into four at one point and a whole extra ending existing if you made a certain set of choices through the game.
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Nov 6, 2023 21:58
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RevolverDivider posted:Nah WC3 is mostly fine. Yeah the ongoing LP is made by someone who actively hates Warcraft playing on story difficulty. It's not really a fair examination of the game nor is it intended to be.
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Nov 14, 2023 01:01
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I think the filler elves part is actually pretty evocative honestly. For them it's the destruction of their race, for the Undead it's Tuesday. Sylvanas ends up in eternal torture, Arthas didn't really do it for any other reason than to gently caress with her. I think broadly, and this is true for Wings as well. When you take a microscope to the plot of these games there are threads left hanging and bits and pieces that don't work. But if I'm honest, I couldn't have told you about the problems with Wings of Liberty's plot until I saw this LP because I didn't do something like delay Haven as long as possible because why would I? I didn't immediately ponder the orb for like 5 straight missions because why would I? Yeah if you play in an intentionally very silly order as directed by the thread the game's logic begins to creak, but the first time you play through, the illusion of choice maintains itself relatively easily and makes the narrative more interactive. The reactivity in the news reports makes you feel more involved in the world. It might not hold on a repeat playthrough but I also just don't think it really needs to because by then the hooks are in and you're probably here for the gameplay which is, honestly, really good. I suppose the above doesn't bear out for people who played SC1 and Brood War and loved the plot, but I've said this before and I'll say it again. Wings held up incredibly well for a complete newcomer to the series and I'll stand by that.
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Nov 14, 2023 02:05
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FoolyCharged posted:So, approximately 10s after beating the first map option, when I opened the archives to play the other version of the map? Yeah, I just don't think you played through the game like most people did. And that's fine, the game's flaws become apparent with your approach and it's absolutely fine to think less of it as a result. Lord loving knows I've Fire Emblem opinions that come from the exact same place. But I do just think that SC2 (WoL, not the rest) holds well on what I'd consider to be a relatively typical first playthrough. Natural 20 fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Nov 14, 2023 |
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Nov 14, 2023 02:43
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Felinoid posted:Yup. Fantastic way to just drain away all of the goodwill this fantastically frantic ending mission was building up. Leaving you sour and ready to be disappointed by the final cutscene regardless of its actual quality. You just automatically know, going into it, that it is already bad. I never played SC1. So I really liked it when I got that line on Brutal. Like I have literally 0 attachment to SC1 so I basically took this to mean all my effort for the campaign wasn't entirely pointless.
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Dec 9, 2023 16:59
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GodFish posted:Wow, I've beaten WoL like 4 times and never seen that dialog at all. I am 99% sure it only shows in Brutal. Also excellent part 1 to the LP, I really enjoyed it. To elaborate a bit more on my position as someone who didn't play SC1 for this bit. I essentially went through the campaign believing, especially post the overmind reveal that being zerged *did* something to your mind that meant you didn't see things in the same way as a normal human. That whatever the gently caress the hybrids or the Xel'naga or whatever were doing meant that the zerg simply didn't have free will, or whatever their free will was, was compromised by some sort of overriding objective. So Kerrigan is essentially a victim of that as well. That being said, Kerrigan obviously displays intelligence and a conception of self, so there's an extent to which whoever she was previously must still exist and be driving, if not the ultimate objective, then the execution of that objective. So hearing this line essentially confirmed everything I'd thought and it worked. It would loving suck to go through the entire WoL campaign and get told at the end of it, "Actually Kerrigan was just a complete poo poo the entire time and everything you did was pointless because she regrets nothing." Anyway Heart of the Swarm is coming up, I'm sure the geniuses at Blizzard will write an excellent story about someone coming to terms with what they did when they weren't in their right mind and spend a really good amount of story time examining how culpable Kerrigan is in those circumstances. They could even explore the concept of what control of the Zerg even looks like. Whether one can even claim to be Queen of the swarm to begin with. It'll be great! Right?
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Dec 11, 2023 00:48
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:what are you talking about, that would absolutely rule I mean okay, look, if the writing was completely incredible and we had another full campaign with Jim Raynor reckoning with this decision that he made to save someone who was utterly reprehensible, then yeah, I could see it working. But if we assume the tone of what Wings of Liberty's writing wanted, which is essentially a Western, then that decision would be at massive odds with basically the entire tone of the game and would suck.
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Dec 11, 2023 02:20
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On the gameplay point of Hots. Zerg are a fun race to play in Multiplayer. In this campaign all the fun parts of Multiplayer are gone. Campaign Zerg are mechanically easy to play, with one trivial strategy that trumps absolutely everything else and that strategy will carry almost anyone through Brutal. It's terrible, mission design does nothing to encourage any variance in play aside from solo character missions and so as an experienced player you spend your time inventing restrictions for yourself to make the game more fun. As mentioned upthread, I'd never played starcraft before SC2 and the campaign there got me into the multiplayer, where I vibed super hard with Zerg. To get this piece of complete poo poo after that killed basically all interest I had in the game permanently, to the point that I never even bought Legacy of the Void.
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Dec 17, 2023 02:11
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Genuinely, I was enjoying Heart to this point. There's this idea being presented right now that it's dangerous for Kerrigan to control the Zerg, with the implication being that she went a bit mad in mission 1 because of the influence they appear to have on her. This is then offset really well by Jim and Kerrigan's dialogue in this feeling natural and kindof getting over the idea that they're resuming where they left off. So it's a bit like, things are as they should be, but there's just a little bit off that's going to send things spiraling. Unfortunately Blizzard separate the two characters at this point and the campaign is far, far weaker as a result. (We'll get to all the idiocy later)
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Dec 23, 2023 00:50
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And this is the exact point where the game goes to complete poo poo. At no point does Kerrigan consider that the state propaganda station might be lying.
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Dec 31, 2023 05:42
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Tenebrais posted:There's the seeds of a good story here. Kerrigan torn between the opportunity to be human again and have companionship from something other than her animalistic mindslave-children, vs the addictive power and security of ruling over the Swarm. Where capturing Jim also meant Mengsk took that opportunity away from her and she is tragically forced back into the same life the terrans had gone to such lengths to save her from. In that respect, whether Raynor is alive or not doesn't really matter - what's important is that she's alone in a hostile environment, no one is coming to help and only her power over the Zerg can save her. She doesn't have to believe Mengsk, she only needs to infer that he is confident Raynor isn't going to be turning up to save the day. I think you can pretty easily integrate this with "Lead the Swarm" by having Kerrigan put into situations where she initially has no other option but to use the zerg, as is here, then showing her just opt for the swarm over and over even when there are other more compelling choices available.
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Jan 1, 2024 19:45
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Honest to god, can you imagine if they'd had the balls to write a conversation between Kerrigan and Abathur about what Zerglings feel.
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Jan 23, 2024 18:17
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I've said before I never played SC1. I saw the Zerus cutscene. And I thought it was probably one of the stupidest things I've ever seen. How are the Zerg, who have been fighting loving space wars for god knows how many years, in need of the basic bitch rear end zerg that they left on Zerus. Like if the gimmick is that the zerg adapt super fast to survive in space then how have the zerg somehow grown weaker than if they'd just sat on their home turf doing nothing but eating the same creatures they'd grown off of.
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Jan 29, 2024 16:44
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Sanguinia posted:I figured that the point of the trip was less "The Primal Zerg are better than the Space Zerg," and more "Go back to the Primal Zerg are learn some kind of important metaphorical lesson about life from the Zerg perspective. And also you don't need to be defined by what the Xel'Naga made the Zerg since they're now the badguy. Go learn what you can be without their guardrails." The cutscene shows a primal zerg eating another one and getting eyes. It's pretty loving strongly implying that it wants you to eat the primal zerg rather than hinting at some sort of metaphor about redefining what Zerg are.
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Jan 29, 2024 16:56
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Calax posted:So... is nobody else going to comment on the fact that we had a perfect definition of exactly how evolution works in the Roach mission, followed up by how idiot's think evolution works in the cutscene? No you're wrong. You eat a thing with 6 eyes and you get 6 eyes. It's why I currently have gills and a sword for a nose.
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Jan 29, 2024 23:42
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Kerrigan: Hey, there's one thing I don't get, though. When my face was crushed, why did it go back to my old face? I mean, shouldn't it have turned into some kind of third face that was different? Heh. Don't make no..
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Feb 11, 2024 01:16
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I think part of my disdain comes from doing Char->Zerus->Kaldir the first time. I've said you can just A-move across the map the second you get Roach Hydra on Brutal, but part of that might have just been because I was already so bored by the time I got there with just having lings and mutas.
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Feb 17, 2024 18:14
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Wait why did Kerrigan want to go to Char again?
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Mar 11, 2024 19:37
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BlazetheInferno posted:Basically because it's the Swarm's Primary World and there's bound to be a bunch of Zerg there to take control of to send at Mengsk - taking on Warfield is sort of a combination of "Get. Off. My. Planet." but also, you *know* he's going to defend Arcturus if we don't take him out first, no matter how monstrous we all know Mengsk is. And she couldn't have just landed, grabbed all the zerg and flown off whilst man sits on his volcano planet like a goober?
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Mar 11, 2024 19:52
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I think Hots is fun unless you played Zerg extensively in Wings. Then you play it and it is the most relentlessly boring campaign because like, basic loving zerg macro annihilates it and any need for thought completely.
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Apr 6, 2024 18:58
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This is where I stopped. I was so just utterly disgusted with HotS on almost every level that I didn't buy Lotv because I didn't give a poo poo about what happened any more. This is after WoL made me just completely buy into Starcraft despite never having engaged with it before. From a gameplay perspective it's awful, every map is a trivial faceroll where you can win with Kerrigan or you can win with roach/hydra and god loving forbid you use both. And from a story perspective, loving christ. The entire plot is set off by Kerrigan never considering Mengsk is lying. Deciding that the first thing to do after all her friends sacrificed to De-zerg her is to re-zerg herself and the goddamn form she gets doesn't even have the decency to be any different from the original. And then yeah, she just spends her time genociding planets and then getting completely redeemed at the end because gently caress me, consequences for actions do not exist here.
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May 6, 2024 01:16
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