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SteveSteveSteve
Sep 6, 2023
Bisby, the Unit Spotlight: Medivac link isn't showing in the OP.

To be fair the unit is pretty much forgettable since Medics exist.

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SteveSteveSteve
Sep 6, 2023
I don't think I could assist in the co-op either with my erratic schedule and time zone, but I look forward to seeing the footage anyway. Co-op is honestly the main reason why I still have a Battle.net launcher on my computer, and that grind to level 1000 is real and ever on my mind.

Will this cover all the maps available to be comprehensive, or just one? Will there also be any playing around with mutators?

SteveSteveSteve
Sep 6, 2023
250 is my guess.

SteveSteveSteve
Sep 6, 2023


Does this and the earlier line ("Unique essence discovered on Dominion security world") also count as a trackable Essence? (I.e. +2)

Also when replaying the missions in the Archive you can select which evolution is active rather than being stuck with one or the other, which is a welcome feature.

SteveSteveSteve fucked around with this message at 08:22 on Jan 21, 2024

SteveSteveSteve
Sep 6, 2023
Jim is easy to play...at first, but hard to master. But he is a lot of fun once he gets going.
I'm one of those fools who when the Prestiges came out wasted too much time grinding for them all, yet for Jimmy I just stick to his Default no Prestige when playing him.

Backwater Marshal (Double Infantry Health) is even more focused on Bio. As the main component Man With Gun (Marine) gets to survive much longer. Also this applies to their upgrades. A Marine with Combat Shield (+20 health Instead of 10) and Level 3 Infantry Armor (60%) can have as much as 136 Health. You think that's good? The Firebat, which is far more useful here than in Wings, with Juggernaut Plating (+200 Health instead of 100) and Level 3?

460 Health and 6 Armor.

(And they have increased range too innately.)

However, the lack of MULEs for mineral farming really hurts economy wise. Ideally it's to make you focus on bio rather than more expensive mech (and you still need Orbital Commands for detection), but the reduced late game higher tier units can be a hindrance. Again, as much as I would love to play this style for my preferred focus on infantry, I just go with the default no prestige.

Rough Rider makes Afterburners a mech Stimpack. Raynor's boys already have some good attack speed. A stimmed deployed Siege Tank or Battlecruiser force? Shenanigans abound. It also allows for some infantry support, especially Medics who can heal the damage (oh, another upgrade allows them to heal mechanical units) and more Marines. However, you need to research Afterburners first, it is not innate, which does take time. So the early game is a bit weak for him until he can tech up to that. Also there is more of a reliance on vespene than the other prestiges.

Rebel Raider is fully air focused from the start. Quickly rushing Battlecruisers (with Viking support, Banshees are not always ideal) is always fun. And an increased uptime on the Hyperion too. However you really need to be on the ball with economy due to their increased cost, even more so with the 50% increase. Being able to make Orbital Commands immediately does help somewhat.

Also, since the Mastery Combat Sets weren't listed here:

1. Research Resource Cost: Research costs -2% per point to 60% less. This includes the general Attack Speed and Armor/Health upgrades of the Engineering Bay and Armory.
Speed Increases for Drop-Pod units: New units get +2% per point to 60% movement speed, attack speed, cooldown reduction and energy regeneration for 30 seconds after being drop podded.

2. Hyperion Cooldown: Reduces the cooldown by -4s to -120s. (Up to 240s) Does not reduce initial cooldown.
Banshee Airstrike Cooldown: Reduces the cooldown by -4s to -120s. (Up to 120s) Does not reduce initial cooldown. (With a 60s timer this gives them a 50% uptime.)

3. Medics Heal Additional Target: Medics also heal a second target for 3 - 90% as much.
Mech Attack Speed: +1% - 30% for Vehicles and Ships, stacking with any other boosts.

I go for Reduced Research (gotta get my infantry supported), Banshee Airstrike (again, 50% uptime is not bad even if it is lacking to the Hyperion), and Medic (again infantry, less focus on mech)

Sorry for the many words also. I too could go on and on on this. It's far better than the HOTS "story", obviously.

SteveSteveSteve fucked around with this message at 09:36 on Jan 30, 2024

SteveSteveSteve
Sep 6, 2023
That is my plan. I'll wait for you to showcase them out first before I do any long essays, including my personal favorite (Terran wise).

I assume you're going through them by order of release?

SteveSteveSteve
Sep 6, 2023
Some of those anniversary ones were HARD, especially some of the timer based ones. Even thinking about them and the grind it took for all of them gives me nightmares.

Completing all of them gives you a character we will meet much later as an announcer, I think the last Blizzard made before they slowed support for the game.

SteveSteveSteve
Sep 6, 2023
I like Swann, even though he's not the strongest Commander. Fortifying the base with turrets and pinging away with the Laser Drill before building a unstoppable wave of Goliaths, Tanks, and Thors, is always fun. And Vespene Harvesters and Science Vessels are unmatched in their utility, regardless of partner.

However, for a game mode that rewards fast aggression, he has trouble, as shown here. You'd better hope your partner can make up for it while you set up. Also, he can be often more mineral starved than gassed (pun intended), and sadly he can't just call down a MULE or two like Jimmy.



Heavy Weapons Specialist is excellent to deal with hordes of weak units, like infantry based armies or Infested, but it removes the mobility and emergency coverage of Concentrated Beam and Pulse Cannon. This incentivizes focusing more on having a fast moving army anyway.



With Grease Monkey your turrets can have as much as +2 Range, +4 Armor, and +50% Attack Speed, which is obviously ridiculously strong. You'd have to rely more on them than a more expensive army though. (Also you need to build the Engineering Pay and wait for those upgrades to complete, which makes a late game Commander even later.) While I haven't seen it too much in my playing, it is technically possible to build turrets right in front of the enemy (thanks to multiple SCVs being able to build at once), bring the fight to them, and then salvage them to carry them to the next frontline.



Payload Director doubles down on the Hercules dropship gameplay like what was demonstrated here, especially when paired with the now warp-capable Science Vessels as support. It's not really my playstyle, but I've seen it done masterfully to circumvent defenses to attack at weak points.
(Also Wraiths don't get Tactical Jump. It makes sense as it would probably overpower them, but it's still an annoying sight to see them unable to have it.)

SteveSteveSteve
Sep 6, 2023
Nova is great fun, and surprisingly simple to play (at least compared to Raynor and as long as you can keep your boys and girls alive and your micro is on point).

I go back and forth on going vanilla or Soldier of Fortune. Specializing on one type of force has its benefits if you know how to handle the enemy comp (or can rely on your partner to fill any deficiencies). This is ideally how prestiges should be, as something to choose of neutral or equal power to each other, rather than as we will see of some of them being way more overpowered than they should for whatever a reason.
(Also in my opinion the game should make more clearer which building has been chosen for both players. They should perhaps also remove the gas cost entirely from building the Factory and Starport, but vehicles and ships are definitely more late game so I can see why they didn't. It's still a bit annoying though to have to wait for gas to buildup before constructing them.)

Tactical Dispatcher is...not great. It can be good if mobility is required but there are far better (and free!) ways which also doesn't interfere in watching the Griffin do strafing runs. And you'll definitely prefer those strafing runs to having your army be forced to engage directly and perhaps take unrecoverable losses that a teleport can't completely solve.

That leaves Infiltration Specialist, of which I very much refer to Warmachine before me. Mad Bomber Nova is great silliness indeed, especially in a game mode that rewards such aggressive deep infield plays. However you have to be aware of Mutators in play, the mission layout, base compositions and locations, and what measures you need for enemy attacks, since she most likely won't be participating in too much active combat and you'll have the rest of your units (and your partner) for that.

Also to slightly add: Nova Primary Ability Improvement applies to her Snipe, Penetrating Blast, Sabotage Drone (in case you want your P3 to be even more powerful), and Blink's Shield. This Mastery is obviously focused on her, since the Unit Attack Speed is just that only for them.
Combat Unit Life Regeneration will only activate 10 seconds out of combat. Still very useful though, obviously. Nova has her own regeneration upgrade as listed. Even if playing P3 you can still have that for your units; there won't be much energy drain if she focuses purely on Drones which are more cooldown restrained, and you won't really be using Snipe all too much due to its breaking of her Super! Cloak.

SteveSteveSteve
Sep 6, 2023

TeeQueue posted:

For nova everything you want to rapid cast is on e anyways except maybe for one of the raven abilities.

My god I’ve been seiging 12+ libs BY HAND for Four Presitge Runs. :negative:

You and me both. :negative:

On the other hand, I do leave a few Liberators undeployed in the case of air threats, since they're still useful at that role.

Rapid Fire is something I want to set up but always keep forgetting to. I'm surprised but not too much that it's not a toggable setting in game client rather than having to edit it in manually.

SteveSteveSteve
Sep 6, 2023
E: what Bisby said.

A shame they don’t get much really. They don’t even get a skirmish presence! Blizz just couldn’t find a way to integrate them there.

SteveSteveSteve fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Mar 20, 2024

SteveSteveSteve
Sep 6, 2023

BisbyWorl posted:

Characters can have multiple lines to play through. :negative:

I'll start getting everything they have to say, but I'm not going back through the entire game to get all the ones I missed.


On a whim I've been quickly going through Wings and the current progress on Heart to see what lines were missed, of which there is quite the sizeable amount. There are of course some by the main characters reacting to the missions.

After Welcome to the Jungle posted:

"So, we're pirates ourselves these days. Hey Kachinsky! Got any rum? Aargh."

However there are also a hell of a lot of crewmembers wandering around the Hyperion's bridge or cantina with a line or four. Even Cooper, the bartender, who according to one crewman makes a mean Mai Tai.



He defects for the Dominion in a stolen Wraith during Flashpoint for the money.



Of course he vanishes off the face of the series after that.



Also many of these lines, particularly Jimmy at the start in JoeyRay's, and sometime after Tosh joins, are about Raynor's problematic drinking, in reference to that half-abandoned subplot of his. It makes me wonder what would have happened if Blizz did go through with it and if it would make things better. My guess is not much, but it would be SOMETHING.

SteveSteveSteve
Sep 6, 2023
I love this odd couple character wise. They are extremely mobile, Mira can recover her boys very quickly, and the call downs are some of the best in this mode.

Also your partner also gains from your recovered salvage and vice versa. This can make for some fun economy bending with some of the later commanders we will meet.

Also Hellions are actually good here: these ones use anti Armored grenade launchers. You’ll use a few for that and for their slow and their on death Bloodlust. Hellbats still have the flamethrower, but at least these ones aren’t that bad. Having them die first so they can trigger their Fear is a valid tactic, assuming their DOT doesn’t cook the enemy first.

The problem to me is they feel somewhat disjointed. There is no good bridge in between their niches, short of using a Raven or two. And you WILL be using Ravens, as they are excellent support units. At most it’s more ideal to concentrate more on Mira’s folks, including mass Reapers, with Horner’s ships as only a minority if you can afford the cost.

One minor issue on this is their masteries aren’t top tier to me. Stronger Death Chance is mostly a chance, even a high probability one, when it would be just as fine if it was 3.33 - 100%. Also for the longest time it was bugged and didn’t even work. It took one of the last main patches last year to correct that. The Significant Others increase is even worse: this is multiplicative not additive, so at most you’ll only get 0.65% per supply instead of 0.8%. Very annoying. And the Double Salvage Chance can get you at most a mind staggering…40% of a unit’s cost. Well, 32% if you average in the probability. Not really worth it in my opinion.



Chaotic Power Couple is my prestige of choice, doubling down on Mira’s forces. Cost increases aren’t too strenuous and you’ll probably won’t have much air anyway. The stronger stronger death effect is pretty worthwhile anyway.

Wing Commanders is powerful, but at the cost of the early game since you only have the 2 Galleons for unit production. Still I can see the appeal of an elite Air Force. Battlecruisers are neat, but Wraiths are good for once, and even the Vikings are excellent anti air support.

Galactic Gunrunners may be a meme strategy, but depending on the map it may be just all you need to destroy those objectives. They don’t even impede regular gameplay too much if you are required to do that.



Also also the couple as an announcing duo is really fun to listen to if you have them on hand.

SteveSteveSteve fucked around with this message at 07:35 on Apr 10, 2024

SteveSteveSteve
Sep 6, 2023
Tychus. My man.

His army is streamlined to the limit. His build and research tree is minimal (as long as you focus on what you need). He doesn't need to manage supply. He doesn't even really need base defenses (although his auto-turrets are surprisingly not too bad, especially at clearing or at least softening the expansion rocks.)

No, it is just him and his four other folks roving around blasting the absolute poo poo out of the enemy, whoever they may be. And they are all good. Yes, even that one Hero of the Storm Firebat Blaze. Even Nikara is good in many mutations as noted. Rattlesnake is the all-star. He can stop Armored, he can heal, he can increase attack speed, AND he can AOE slow. Unfortunately he can't hit air. Can't win them all, I suppose. Cannonball is the odd man out as noted, I usually forget he's even an option, but I've been making an effort to use him more in games. He can be very good at both single target DPS and multiple target tanking.

I can't tell you how many times I've smooth moved with Medivacs. Immediately pick up the Outlaws out of a fire, drop them back elsewhere, have them heal and shoot untouched while cloaked, laugh menacingly.

And very little can beat an Odin's nuke. Except perhaps your (Terran) partner's nuke.

With positional awareness, smart ability usage, and Medivac jumping, there is little debate that Tychus is THE strongest Commander to play. Well, he and another we will get to way way way later. But he is my main Commander of choice.

Oh, he can also be purchased to be your Announcer, with all the hijinks that entails.

You can also tell how overpowered he is by the fact that ALL his prestige options are viable. Even vanilla, which can be quite good for short duration missions if you don't really need any bells and whistles.

Technical Recruiter is ideal for longer missions, though it can still work on any map, and is also my prestige of choice for general play. The main thing is having to wait a bit longer to get a full hand (which can take up to 21 game time minutes), and perhaps having to rely on your partner to shore up any deficiencies while waiting (including perhaps helping your economy). Though ideally upgrade expenditures should be focused more on their Gear than the general damage and armor/health ones. Yes, this does stack with the Shredder Grenade Cooldown Mastery to bring it to as low as 7 seconds. Yes, this does stack with Nux's N3 Networking, bringing it down even further to 5.6 seconds. Hopefully he doesn't tire his throwing arm from all that throwing.

Lone Wolf may be difficult to coordinate at first, but the payoff is insanely fun. It's not unusual to have one Outlaw (usually Sirius) just stay on guard at base or at a spawn point to stop entire attack waves, while another Outlaw (usually Tychus, sometimes Sam) goes out and about soloing objectives. I've believe we've seen such a feat a few times in these demonstrations (the one for Nova in Miner Evacuation, where Tych takes on entire bonus objectives all on his own). It's pretty strong. Yes, this does include Siruis's turrets and Vega's dominates.

Hell, this prestige was even STRONGER. When it was first released it was a flat 200% damage increase IMMEDIATELY. So it was pretty common to see people use Tychus and ONLY Tychus to fight with. No one else. Yes, it was pretty insane. They had to nerf it so you have to recruit other Outlaws now for the full benefit, and even then it "only" goes up to 150%.

The malus to Gear is not that big a deal overall. The overall adjusted cost (2250 minerals and 567 gas) is CHEAPER than the original cost with Ultimates (3000 minerals and 850 gas). Also the damage increase and reduction covers that of what would have been gained from the Ultimates anyway, at even greater effect. Rattlesnake may no longer AOE slow, but his single target damage would be more than enough anyway. Honestly, the only real Outlaw affected would be Nikara, since she can no longer shield (and no, she doesn't finally get a gun for this prestige, that's Lt. Morales' gimmick). She is still useful regardless if you or your partner needs her services. But again, you probably won't that much even with other prestiges (unless the mutation calls for it).

Dutiful Dogwalker is rather straightforward (but not as much beating over the head in its obviousness as the Thor pilot now being old and wizened with white hair, having an eyepatch over his left eye, and a valknut on his bandanna...since he's literally Odin, you see.). With a maximum uptime of 120 seconds (and a minimum cooldown of 144 seconds), he is essentially your Sixth Outlaw on the field, for all that entails. While he may not be authorized to fire a nuke (we can't have one in the wrong hands can we?), he can still bring some tremendous firepower, replacing a powerful damage burst with more sustained DPS (as long as you keep him out for the full duration).

The ACTUAL disadvantage to this is that since Tychus is no longer the pilot, he can no longer get a free revive by summoning it. So try to keep him alive more here if you can. Hell, try to keep him alive regardless of prestige. But even more so here.

(Also The Tri-Outlaw Research Improvement Mastery is a bit of an odd duck. It adds up to 15% attack speed for ITC-E Triggers, 15% life for Endurance Supplements, and 15% vision range for Flashforce GDM Visor. I.e.: a whopping 1.5 range. Game-breaking for sure.)

(Also also, while Vega can't cloak like other Ghosts, her rifle does have the anti-Light bonus. Sadly this does not affect the also visible Nux, who doesn't get the anti-Armored bonus like his fellow Spectres.)



Also, your second favorite Terran commander? Should we guess who your favorite is, unless it's the last one we haven't met yet (of which I also love their playstyle, don't get me wrong)?

SteveSteveSteve fucked around with this message at 09:36 on Apr 18, 2024

SteveSteveSteve
Sep 6, 2023
I don't think I remember any sort of backstory for Nikara like that, or any at all. The most I could find was a medic who was also a psionic named Amanda Haley in a comic short story, who was infested by QOB Kerrigan as part of some experiment or other.

https://starcraft.fandom.com/wiki/Amanda_Haley posted:

"According to a panel at BlizzCon 2011, the character Izsha who appears in StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm was actually Amanda Haley. However, no references to this appeared in the game or on Izsha's hero page."

Blizzard not getting their own stories straight? Get out of here!

However, an Outlaw who did get a later appearance, also in a comic short story, would be Sirius, aka James Sykes, who appeared in Blizz's doomed further comics (as tied to their War Chest things). This occurs in the "real world" after the game series where he is not a Devil but just a regular mercenary, so:

He double crosses the comic's main character and shoots her companion. She responds by breaking his neck.



...Yeah, I prefer the alternate reality Sirius, thanks.

SteveSteveSteve fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Apr 18, 2024

SteveSteveSteve
Sep 6, 2023

BlazetheInferno posted:

In regards to this being Dehaka's only appearance in-mission... Imma just quote him from Heroes of the Storm.

"I followed Queen of Blades to collect essence. Traveled across sector... but left leviathan only once, to destroy terran machines. Should have been more proactive. "

Also this one, even if partly-joking:
"Primal zerg do not have a psionic connection. Do not need it. My pack has family texting plan. "
(I hope he is not a customer of CommandCenterCast.)

SteveSteveSteve
Sep 6, 2023

bladededge posted:

I paid full retail price for physical editions of all three parts of SC2. By Heart I was hesitant. By Void I knew full well this was a bad idea and waste of money, and I did it anyway for completion's sake. Loving the catharsis of this thread.

It could have been worse, you could have also bought the two strategy guides like I did, back when they were in vogue, and these were large hardcovers too (by BradyGames).



For some reason they didn't make one for Legacy.



Anyway, props to Bisby for slugging through this bad expansion so some of us don't have to.

SteveSteveSteve fucked around with this message at 17:36 on May 5, 2024

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SteveSteveSteve
Sep 6, 2023
If only campaign Mengsk was as competent as Co-Op Mengsk, the game would be far better for it. My head-canon is that the former Mengsk we had to suffer through "planning" before getting blown apart by Kerrigan was actually a body double, and this is the real actual mastermind of war Emperor come to help against a greater foe.

As it is though, he does the low quality/high quality units far better than Han & Horner, mostly due to how fast he can ramp his economy. A mass of empowered Troopers and Royal Guard have strong firepower. And of course you can just Ordnance objectives depending on the map.

Sadly Toxic Tyrant removes the nukes, but you won't really need them anyway with the Strikes and Zerg about.

Principal Proletariat is alright, but nothing spectacular. It makes it far easier to have a few Level 3 Augustgrads warping around blasting enemies, assuming the map takes that long to get to that point.

Merchant of Death is my prestige of choice, for obvious explosive reasons. You can still switch Troopers to Laborers and vice versa, and they drop their weapons when doing. The lack of Intercessor healing will not hurt your Troopers, since they can just change to Laborers and repair themselves. It will however hurt usage of Aegis Guard and Emperor's Shadows, since you can't repair them, and their firepower against Armored/Mechanical units is always useful. Ideally your partner will have their own methods to patch them up (unless you're just Ordnance bombarding the enemy instead and don't believe in using units that would just get in the way).

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