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cat botherer
Jan 6, 2022

I am interested in most phases of data processing.
The EMDrive just won't die. AFAIK, quantized inertia isn't the crackpottiest thing ever, but all of these modified Newtonian dynamics theories still fail to explain observations that show gravitational lensing in places spatially separated from normal matter. In the balance of all of it, it's still just really hard to get away from dark matter.

I suppose the reasoning of DARPA is that it is worth it even with an infinitesimal chance of success. They've funded a lot of stupider stuff.

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Gravitas Shortfall
Jul 17, 2007

Utility is seven-eighths Proximity.


the trouble is that it still won't shut up the True Believers if it's shown to 100% not work

The Chad Jihad
Feb 24, 2007


Huh, I thought that one got robustly debunked? I've always had a soft spot for the emdrive, I think it was the first time I got sucked into a 'miracle breakthrough'

cat botherer
Jan 6, 2022

I am interested in most phases of data processing.

The Chad Jihad posted:

Huh, I thought that one got robustly debunked? I've always had a soft spot for the emdrive, I think it was the first time I got sucked into a 'miracle breakthrough'
Yep. The great majority of replications have been negative, and all positive results have been shown to be due to measurement errors or confounding forces.

Wafflecopper
Nov 27, 2004

I am a mouth, and I must scream

Ionicpsycho posted:

https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2024/01/darpa-partially-funded-quantum-space-drive-orbital-test.html

In other news, someone at DARPA said "sure, he's some pocket change, go nuts" over that drat EMDrive

That article reads like it was written by 15 year old, and not even a very smart one

Ionicpsycho
Dec 25, 2006
The Shortbus Avenger.
Oh yeah, that site pops up in my feed and it's consistently written like a bad Chatbot prompt.

Also, I like this PowerPoint slide that doubles down on the promises and says it could provide thrust even without electricity. Hell, with a claim like that you could slap a couple on a shaft and make a perpetual generator. Just absolute insanity they got investor funding.

ashpanash
Apr 9, 2008

I can see when you are lying.

Gravitas Shortfall posted:

the trouble is that it still won't shut up the True Believers if it's shown to 100% not work

They'll always point to experimental uncertainties in measurements as 'evidence' that there was 'some effect.'

As if 0kph +/- .000002 kph is a reasonable demonstration of a propulsion technology.

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through
i'm generally down to let these sorts burn capital though i suppose they're getting some darpa funding on some level. even then i don't care too much, i'm fine with occasionally wasting money on scientific longshots lol.

having said all of this i noticed that linkedin post again goes into the background of how this is supposed to work on a pr level. they brought up how their pet theory of quantized inertia is an explanation for effects currently attributed to dark matter, but as always they only cover galactic rotation curves. do they bother explaining anywhere about what that means for other things like cmb anisotropies (just kidding i know they won't)


ashpanash posted:

They'll always point to experimental uncertainties in measurements as 'evidence' that there was 'some effect.'

As if 0kph +/- .000002 kph is a reasonable demonstration of a propulsion technology.

lol of course. and it's already been in orbit for two and a half months when it was supposed to only take a month to test anything

Shaddak
Nov 13, 2011

It's only infrared but, the JWST has directly imaged two planets orbiting a white dwarf.
https://phys.org/news/2024-01-webb-images-planets-orbiting-white.amp

Image from the article.

e: added the actual link

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through

Shaddak posted:

It's only infrared but, the JWST has directly imaged two planets orbiting a white dwarf.
https://phys.org/news/2024-01-webb-images-planets-orbiting-white.amp

Image from the article.

e: added the actual link

extremely dope

DrSunshine
Mar 23, 2009

Did I just say that out loud~~?!!!

Shaddak posted:

It's only infrared but, the JWST has directly imaged two planets orbiting a white dwarf.
https://phys.org/news/2024-01-webb-images-planets-orbiting-white.amp

Image from the article.

e: added the actual link

Yeah, what mediaphage said - this is absurdly badass. Like, iirc we can't even see white dwarfs with the naked eye, they're so tiny, and they don't even do fusion. JWST is out here directly imaging specks of dust illuminated by the ember-glow of the corpse of a dead star. Fuckin a!!

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

I mean OK, it's cool to photograph dead rocks I guess, but where are the aliens, man

DrSunshine
Mar 23, 2009

Did I just say that out loud~~?!!!

Rappaport posted:

I mean OK, it's cool to photograph dead rocks I guess, but where are the aliens, man

You're seeing them. They're the reason the rocks are like that. :tinfoil:

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through

Rappaport posted:

I mean OK, it's cool to photograph dead rocks I guess, but where are the aliens, man

theyre comin

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Jonesy is prepared



There will be no alien nincompoopery here

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Another contender enters orbit: Intuitive Machines' Odysseus Moon lander is going to try touching down today :ohdear:

Space dot com posted:

The private company Intuitive Machines could soon make history as its commercial lunar lander, Odysseus, will attempt to land near the moon's south pole on Thursday (Feb. 22).

If successful, the Intuitive Machines lander will become the first-ever private probe to soft-land on the moon and mark the first U.S. landing on the lunar surface since NASA's Apollo 17 mission achieved the feat in 1972. The mission is carrying a suite of NASA experiments (as part of a $118 million NASA contract) and several commercial payloads for paying customers.

[...]

Intuitive Machines' IM-1 Odysseus spacecraft is targeting a region on the moon called Malapert A, a small crater about 190 miles (300 kilometers) from the lunar south pole.

The crater is about 43 miles (69 km) wide and is a satellite of the larger Malapert Crater nearby. Near Malapert A, there's also an area called Malapert Massif, a lunar mountain that rises up 16,400 feet (5,000 meters) above its base. This location is on NASA's shortlist for the Artemis 3 crewed lunar landing mission.

After a planned nine-day trip to the moon, Odysseus is expected to last for about seven days on the lunar surface, according to a mission overview. The mission will end once the two-week-long lunar night begins because Odysseus isn't expected to survive the harsh, cold lunar night.

The article mentions that NASA and Intuitive Machines will both have live streams of the event, too, because of course they will. Good luck, robot buddy!

DrSunshine
Mar 23, 2009

Did I just say that out loud~~?!!!
You guys, we missed the big reveal two weeks ago that the AARO posted!

quote:

KONA BLUE: A Proposed UAP Recovery and Reverse-Engineering Program

KONA BLUE was brought to AARO’s attention by interviewees who claimed that it was a sensitive DHS compartment to cover up the retrieval and exploitation of “non-human biologics.”114 KONA BLUE traces its origins to the DIA-managed AAWSAP/AATIP program, which was funded through a special appropriation and executed by its primary contractor, a private sector organization. DIA cancelled the program in 2012 due to lack of merit and the utility of the deliverables.

As discussed in Section IV of this report, while the official purpose of AAWSAP/AATIP was to conduct research into 12 areas of cutting edge science, the contractor team, and at least one supportive government program manager, also conducted UAP and paranormal research at a property owned by the private sector organization.When DIA cancelled this program, its supporters proposed to DHS that they create and fund a new version of AAWSAP/AATIP under a SAP.115 This proposal, codenamed KONA BLUE, would restart UAP investigations, paranormal research (including alleged “human consciousness anomalies”) and reverse-engineer any recovered off-world spacecraft that they hoped to acquire.

This proposal gained some initial traction at DHS to the point where a 35Prospective Special Access Program (PSAP) was officially requested to stand up this program, but it was eventually rejected by DHS leadership for lacking merit. As demonstrated by the proposal package and by statements from the originator, Senators Lieberman and Reid asked that the PSAP be established with the promise of additional funding.116

The proposed KONA BLUE lines of effort closely mirrored those conducted by the private sector organization for AAWSAP/AATIP.KONA BLUE’s advocates were convinced that the USG was hiding UAP technologies. They believed that creating this program under DHS would allow all of the technology and knowledge of these alleged programs to be moved under the KONA BLUE program. The program would provide a security and governing structure where it could be monitored properly by congressional oversight committees. This belief was foundational for the KONA BLUE proposal, based on the proposal documents and several interviewees who have provided the same information to AARO and Congress.117

The Oral History Initiative section of the KONA BLUE proposal was to collect data:“…from an already identified and calibrated list of retired, previously highly placed government, armed services, contractor and intelligence community individuals. The oral history project will include gathering all information pertaining to the location of advanced aerospace technology and biological samples, including records, files, reports, photographs, as well as physical samples.”118

It is critical to note that no extraterrestrial craft or bodies were ever collected—this material was only assumed to exist by KONA BLUE advocates and its anticipated contract performers. This was the same assumption made by those same individuals involved with the AAWSAP/AATIP program. The SAP was never approved or stood up, and no data or material was transferred to DHS.119•

KONA BLUE was not reported to Congress at that time because it was never established as a SAP and, therefore, did not meet the threshold for congressional reporting. However, the Deputy Secretary of Defense provided a Congressional Notification concerning the program when it was identified in the spirit of transparency.

:xcom:

ashpanash
Apr 9, 2008

I can see when you are lying.

Once we have definitive, demonstrative evidence that people can move objects with their minds, it makes total sense to develop a set of initiatives, both military and public, to study it.

Once we get definitive, demonstrative evidence for visiting, extraterrestrial space aliens and their spacecraft we should totally develop a similar set of initiatives.

Instead we get people trying to move procedural mountains based on blurry video and anecdotes.

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

For every Uri Geller a Jack Parsons

Wafflecopper
Nov 27, 2004

I am a mouth, and I must scream

ashpanash posted:

Once we have definitive, demonstrative evidence that people can move objects with their minds, it makes total sense to develop a set of initiatives, both military and public, to study it.

I move my limbs with my mind every day smart guy

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

DrSunshine posted:

You guys, we missed the big reveal two weeks ago that the AARO posted!

:xcom:

Would be funny if the great conspiracy is that organizations like this one have found dozens of UAPs, but they're all Chinese drones and they are too embarassed to tell us they were wrong about aliens

Wafflecopper
Nov 27, 2004

I am a mouth, and I must scream

Libluini posted:

Would be funny if the great conspiracy is that organizations like this one have found dozens of UAPs, but they're all Chinese drones and they knew all along but were too embarassed to tell us china was all up in their poo poo so they said it was aliens

Gravitas Shortfall
Jul 17, 2007

Utility is seven-eighths Proximity.


the reveal is that aliens are real but they're all dumb as poo poo, just absolute blockheads.

nimby
Nov 4, 2009

The pinnacle of cloud computing.



Gravitas Shortfall posted:

the reveal is that aliens are real but they're all dumb as poo poo, just absolute blockheads.

It's aliens, but the aliens are also conspiracy theories and they're here to prove humans are behind all their societal ills and unexplained phenomena.

Shaddak
Nov 13, 2011

nimby posted:

It's aliens, but the aliens are also conspiracy theories and they're here to prove humans are behind all their societal ills and unexplained phenomena.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0551027/?ref_=ttep_ep12

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



nimby posted:

It's aliens, but the aliens are also conspiracy theories and they're here to prove humans are behind all their societal ills and unexplained phenomena.
Our missile radars are giving their encrustlings "H'bb'na Syndrome," and let's not even get started on them decrypting our horrible entertainment slop.

If we'd been listening in the 14th century the shoe would be on the other tentacle, but of course the aliens have moved to a fiber-optic telecommunications paradigm for the last five hundred Earth years.

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Nessus posted:

Our missile radars are giving their encrustlings "H'bb'na Syndrome," and let's not even get started on them decrypting our horrible entertainment slop.

If we'd been listening in the 14th century the shoe would be on the other tentacle, but of course the aliens have moved to a fiber-optic telecommunications paradigm for the last five hundred Earth years.

A puppeteer would say that

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



Rappaport posted:

A puppeteer would say that
We're on quantum entanglement now, omnivore, your telescopes can't hear poo poo

ashpanash
Apr 9, 2008

I can see when you are lying.

Wafflecopper posted:

I move my limbs with my mind every day smart guy

yeah that's why we have clothes and armor, genius

Gravitas Shortfall
Jul 17, 2007

Utility is seven-eighths Proximity.


Well this is fun; JWST might have just "solved" the Crisis In Cosmology/Hubble tension by providing more accurate measurements that bring observed distances in line with theoretical models.



From this livestream:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo-QWCzy71Q

cat botherer
Jan 6, 2022

I am interested in most phases of data processing.
The immortal probe is still going!

https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/nasas-voyager-1-resumes-sending-engineering-updates-to-earth

quote:

After some inventive sleuthing, the mission team can — for the first time in five months — check the health and status of the most distant human-made object in existence.

For the first time since November, NASA’s Voyager 1 spacecraft is returning usable data about the health and status of its onboard engineering systems. The next step is to enable the spacecraft to begin returning science data again. The probe and its twin, Voyager 2, are the only spacecraft to ever fly in interstellar space (the space between stars).

Voyager 1 stopped sending readable science and engineering data back to Earth on Nov. 14, 2023, even though mission controllers could tell the spacecraft was still receiving their commands and otherwise operating normally. In March, the Voyager engineering team at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Southern California confirmed that the issue was tied to one of the spacecraft’s three onboard computers, called the flight data subsystem (FDS). The FDS is responsible for packaging the science and engineering data before it’s sent to Earth.

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Nasa egg heads posted:

The probe and its twin, Voyager 2, are the only spacecraft to ever fly in interstellar space (the space between stars).

How would you know?

cat botherer
Jan 6, 2022

I am interested in most phases of data processing.

Rappaport posted:

How would you know?
They work at NASA and haven’t even heard of the secret space program :sad:

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



Rappaport posted:

How would you know?
NASA knows the aliens are using hyperwarp once they get past the Neptune orbital limits.

DrSunshine
Mar 23, 2009

Did I just say that out loud~~?!!!
It's abundantly obvious that you can't use the wormhole system without being significantly outside the strongest curvatures of a star's gravity well, everyone knows that!


This is so awesome, though. That's incredible engineering - these probes were designed and built like 11 years before I was even born, and have kept going through all the cosmic dust and radiation all that time. That's insanely good!!

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Nessus posted:

NASA knows the aliens are using hyperwarp once they get past the Neptune orbital limits.

The Outsiders sold humanity hyperwarp to win the Man-Kzin wars. It's completely coincidental that the Outsiders like living on Neptune's moons.

On a more serious note, good job Voyager. It's amazing the sort of probes humanity managed. We landed a robot on freaking Venus and that is roughly the third-most inhospitable place in the solar system.

Fourth? The solar system is an unfriendly place.

DrSunshine
Mar 23, 2009

Did I just say that out loud~~?!!!
We also have sent a probe to literally dive into the sun.

Like, gently caress. If that's not inhospitable I don't know what is.

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

DrSunshine posted:

It's abundantly obvious that you can't use the wormhole system without being significantly outside the strongest curvatures of a star's gravity well, everyone knows that!

I didn't catch this on my first read, but you know Niven ret-conned that, right? It's Lovecraft all the way, baby

Gravitas Shortfall
Jul 17, 2007

Utility is seven-eighths Proximity.


just dip in and out of ultraspace and infraspace, building up energy by pushing off the grid until you choose one to go ftl in, this is basic stuff people

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DrSunshine
Mar 23, 2009

Did I just say that out loud~~?!!!

Rappaport posted:

I didn't catch this on my first read, but you know Niven ret-conned that, right? It's Lovecraft all the way, baby

I've only read Ringworld and stopped after that. Too much 1970s sci-fi guy horny for me, I'm afraid, despite the novel concept. :shrug:

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