|
Here’s a funding source that looks like they deal out $50M per year for “astronomy and astrophysics research” that you can apply for to help solve the crisis in cosmology or whatever. And that’s just one. OP should just be happy there is a $100M grant out there that funds scientific research because the grand total of all research funding is not nearly enough to fund all people who want to do scientific research.
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 23:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 00:43 |
|
|
LanceHunter posted:So why should the possibility of a technologically identical species to human be something we should look into? Looking for radio patterns that can't be explained by natural processes is probably the easiest way to find something that might be alien. This is to say, it's probably the most productive and serious way to look, while still being an extreme long shot. I don't think anyone is under any illusions about that. Just that a very small chance to discover something as world changing as an alien intelligence is worth that long shot. I think what SETI did was very productive. It largely ruled out alien life commonly using radio waves in our galaxy. For all we knew before there could be aliens all around us, chatting away. We would probably want to know about that if it was the case. It's easy to call absurd in retrospect, but very much worth investigating to be sure.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 01:17
|
|
|
i'm not sold that seti ruled that out, necessarily. i fully agree what they did was absolutely worth doing, but detecting radio sigs from even slightly far away is really hard mind you an advanced species may have surpassed that spectrum, just like we've started to do
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 01:50
|
|
|
mediaphage posted:i'm not sold that seti ruled that out, necessarily. i fully agree what they did was absolutely worth doing, but detecting radio sigs from even slightly far away is really hard My main point is that looking for radio signals is not "religious thinking," or assuming aliens are just like us, because even really alien aliens might use them for something. Aliens don't have their own laws of physics.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 02:05
|
|
|
Yeah I don’t know, it kind of seems like a sloppy troll, turning criticism of ufo beliefs back on an empirical endeavor deemed reasonable by people who dismiss ufo beliefs as lacking in evidence. Who knows for sure?
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 03:13
|
|
|
I AM GRANDO posted:Yeah I don’t know, it kind of seems like a sloppy troll, turning criticism of ufo beliefs back on an empirical endeavor deemed reasonable by people who dismiss ufo beliefs as lacking in evidence. Who knows for sure? If only we had intelligent life to communicate with.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 03:44
|
|
|
LanceHunter posted:Or, you know, let's spend $100M on research that might move the needle on the crisis in cosmology and actually advance human understanding of the universe, rather than indulging in a fantasy. That link is broken, which makes it a little ironic that you quoted yourself about it for emphasis without even explaining what it was. But anyway, although I am not fond of science's (seeming) increasing reliance on the whims of billionaires for funding, or convinced that SETI is a particularly worthwhile endeavour right now, you're picking on a poor example. Not to mention that SETI scientists are well aware of this and there are plenty of papers you can find on alternative approaches besides some of the obvious ones (e.g. searching for 21cm hydrogen line emissions from solar-like stars or whatever). The Voyager golden records also cost next to nothing to produce, besides the time spent curating their contents, and have accomplished far more than in inducing interest in the sciences and provoking further philosophical considerations than whatever else Sagan et al. could have spent their time on. Same with the Arecibo message, which was never actually intended to be received by any particular hypothetical civilization in the foreseeable future.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 04:55
|
|
|
I'm still thinking about how "The Voyager Records Are Indistinguishable From Prayer" is such a mindbendingly poo poo take that it must be a troll. might as well take the bait tho Prayer is the act of beseeching a powerful, entity for aid, backed up by faith that it will be answered if you are a good enough person/have performed the correct rituals/the gods feel like it. The Voyager Records are a message in a bottle, thrown with the assumption that it will never be found, but powered by a little voice that says "hey wouldn't it be neat if it was?". Their inclusion on the probe was driven by the same urge that makes people carve their names in walls or trees or bury time capsules, the extremely human nature to say "hey, I was here, I existed for a time, I was alive like you". There's no plea for cosmic help on the records, no begging for alien intervention. Just art and sound and a little map to our house. It's anthrocentric because how could it not be? The golden disks aren't about aliens, they're about us. They're a handprint on a wall outlined in blown paint. If you find this, know that we were here, we existed for a time. We were alive, like you. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 11:29
|
|
|
Also religious belief has always been a perfectly permissible basis for staking out claims in this thread--like this:quote:Even if there was zero reason for a single human being to ever set foot in space it would still be worthwhile to fill the void with the presence and spirit of humanity because its the key to unlocking the prison that is our planet and to seek out the stars for the sole destiny of humanity. that's teleology, baby, not to mention the presence of a spirit  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) HookedOnChthonics fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Jun 23, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 12:46
|
|
|
Thanks to whoever recommended the Ezra Klein podcast with Leslie Kean on the recent UFO revelations.. (or was it on another thread?) Basically she just proved she's never heard of confirmation bias, and mistakes 3rd hand information for truth. I can go back to ignoring any more UFO reporting until the next "info dump". Starting to think this is govt. psyops, to track how gullible the American people are or putting idiot juice in their water supply, measuring how many more off the average start to believe in conspiracy theories.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 13:43
|
|
|
eXXon posted:That link is broken, which makes it a little ironic that you quoted yourself about it for emphasis without even explaining what it was. I just double-checked, and the link definitely works. It's a PDF of the full Biosignatures as revealed by spectropolarimetry of Earthshine letter (since Nature just has the abstract). Also, goddamn. The UFO guys are coming from inside the thread.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 14:25
|
|
|
LanceHunter posted:Also, goddamn. The UFO guys are coming from inside the thread. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 14:52
|
|
|
Lifroc posted:Thanks to whoever recommended the Ezra Klein podcast with Leslie Kean on the recent UFO revelations.. (or was it on another thread?) It’s just a sign of the ongoing collapse of a decadent empire, like how Romans got really into fortune-telling near the end.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 15:24
|
|
|
Lifroc posted:Thanks to whoever recommended the Ezra Klein podcast with Leslie Kean on the recent UFO revelations.. (or was it on another thread?) yeah, i think grusch was being truthful as he saw it, but i'm not ready to believe all these documents he supposedly saw were objectively true. i sort of feel like it falls along these lines in order of likelihood government coverup of advanced us technology (it really seems like there's something going on) government coverup of advanced adversarial technology government psyop unknown natural phenomena aliens i think aliens are the least likely answer, but i don't think they should be left off the list entirely simply because we don't know what any of this poo poo is
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 15:55
|
|
|
I AM GRANDO posted:It’s just a sign of the ongoing collapse of a decadent empire, like how Romans got really into fortune-telling near the end. Nah. This kind of stuff just comes and goes in cultures. Hell, the British went through a long, deeply superstitious phase (encouraged by King "witchcraft is real" James I) right before their empire took over a large chunk of the world.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 15:55
|
|
|
If only we could make an image the thread title.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 16:11
|
|
|
mediaphage posted:yeah, i think grusch was being truthful as he saw it, but i'm not ready to believe all these documents he supposedly saw were objectively true. You're more optimistic than I am. To me the only reasonable explanation is "it's bullshit from either gullible people, or idiots that want their 15 minutes of fame." There are no aliens that have been visiting us that we actually know of, period. If they did, we'd know it and it would be unmistakable. As long as the narrative keeps being US-centric, it's utter bollocks. It can only be a global phenomenon. I reconcile this skepticism and the Fermi paradox with the idea that perhaps alien lifeforms exist in a way that's totally unconceivable and non-measurable to us just yet. Dark forest theory, or simulation, as other forms of energy or inhabiliting extra dimensions. How would we detect intelligence expressed as gravitational waves? We're cavemen looking at thunder and explaining with our biases and ultimately lack of relevant knowledge in the matter. Worse, because at least it was easy to prove the existence of thunder in the first place, while UFOs is only hearsay, kooks and US govt conspiracy for a global if not astronomical phenomenon.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 17:01
|
|
|
i don’t particularly see it as optimism, few if any of the answers i proffered were what i would consider to be good. it just seems like there are definitely some things going on, and grusch seems less grifty than the usual ufo grifters if perhaps as credulous. i won’t be upset regardless of whatever the ultimate solution is decided to be, though i am mildly enjoying the fracas
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 17:19
|
|
|
mediaphage posted:i don’t particularly see it as optimism, few if any of the answers i proffered were what i would consider to be good. Nah, it's still psychologically optimistic. It's in the same vein as conspiracy theorists who may believe that the world is controlled by secret malevolent forces, but who are ultimately comforted by those beliefs (since they think they know what is really going on). All these latest reports are clearly the work of obvious grifters and their gullible hangers-on.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 17:46
|
|
|
I suspect the most influential factor is that the population that's provided most of the sourcing is people who have not only gone into defense intelligence but then into the subfield of "weird aerial poo poo analysis." All else being equal, I'd expect that population to be more prone to motivated reasoning about aliens than the average human-- and the average human isn't all that great to begin with.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 18:19
|
|
|
LanceHunter posted:Nah, it's still psychologically optimistic. It's in the same vein as conspiracy theorists who may believe that the world is controlled by secret malevolent forces, but who are ultimately comforted by those beliefs (since they think they know what is really going on). lol ok Quorum posted:I suspect the most influential factor is that the population that's provided most of the sourcing is people who have not only gone into defense intelligence but then into the subfield of "weird aerial poo poo analysis." All else being equal, I'd expect that population to be more prone to motivated reasoning about aliens than the average human-- and the average human isn't all that great to begin with. yeah i agree (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 18:26
|
|
|
Quorum posted:I suspect the most influential factor is that the population that's provided most of the sourcing is people who have not only gone into defense intelligence but then into the subfield of "weird aerial poo poo analysis." All else being equal, I'd expect that population to be more prone to motivated reasoning about aliens than the average human-- and the average human isn't all that great to begin with. Yeah. For comparison, there are OSINT folks focused on non-proliferation who have done some loving ingenious work using only publicly-available data. Like figuring out how to detect missile launches through statistical analysis to find patterns in the deviations of GPS signals in ground stations caused by disturbances in the ionosphere: https://twitter.com/ArmsControlWonk/status/1593452824670576640?s=20 So the fact that these reports are only coming from a very small subset of folks who are all claiming that their evidence is classified just reeks of bullshit.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 18:48
|
|
|
https://www.sciencealert.com/a-big-gravitational-wave-announcement-is-coming-thursday-heres-why-were-excited This is cool: There's a major announcement coming soon about cosmic gravitational wave background - basically the same deal as cosmic background radiation, but gravity waves. CBR is from when the universe first became transparent, a few hundred thousand years after the Big Bang. However, the universe was always transparent to gravitational waves, so this could go back to 10^-32 seconds after the Big Bang.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2023 16:44
|
|
|
cat botherer posted:https://www.sciencealert.com/a-big-gravitational-wave-announcement-is-coming-thursday-heres-why-were-excited Oh this is interesting. I remember watching a video on it from the PBS Spacetime guy last year or so I think. Good to know they’ve kept pushing along and have more to share.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2023 20:41
|
|
|
Boris Galerkin posted:Oh this is interesting. I remember watching a video on it from the PBS Spacetime guy last year or so I think. Good to know they’ve kept pushing along and have more to share. Also this came out today: https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/4067865-congress-doubles-down-on-explosive-claims-of-illegal-ufo-retrieval-programs/ quote:Asked June 26 about allegations of secret UFO retrieval and reverse-engineering programs, Senate Intelligence Committee Vice Chairman Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) made several stunning statements.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2023 16:58
|
|
|
There’s a person in the physics/astronomy thread that says they’ve seen/heard rumors of detecting a supermassive black hole merger with gravitational waves.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2023 16:59
|
|
|
Boris Galerkin posted:There’s a person in the physics/astronomy thread that says they’ve seen/heard rumors of detecting a supermassive black hole merger with gravitational waves.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2023 17:02
|
|
|
cat botherer posted:Oh cool. Sounds like that might happen during a galactic merger. I don't know of supermassive black holes that aren't at galactic centers, but I suppose they could be flung out occasionally into intergalactic space. That would make them hard to detect aside from gravitational lensing though. Yeah there’s an interesting discussion about how apparently galaxy mergers are relatively common. It’s worth a read. Start here: asexual linuxmancer posted:I have heard/seen rumblings that a supermassive black hole merger was detected.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2023 17:09
|
|
|
cat botherer posted:Apparently a big part of it is being able to exclude other sources of detectable waves, especially from black hole mergers. If you’re a senator and someone showed you proof that the US has spaceships from a civilization on another planet, how is your next response anything other than calling the president to demand a detachment of national guard soldiers to liberate that fucker and immediately put it on every tv channel? Writing a provision in a funding bill to exclude reverse-engineering of a captured spacecraft doesn’t even make sense, unless there’s just a “show it to congress first” provision. But what would they want to be done with one, just throw it out or something? This whole thing is so stupid but just won’t end. Is it just a way to prove how many Americans are gullible morons? I already knew Rubio was a moron. Somebody get a quote from Trump and see if he blurts anything out about the space brothers agreeing to save him from jail.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2023 17:12
|
|
|
cat botherer posted:Oh cool. Sounds like that might happen during a galactic merger. I don't know of supermassive black holes that aren't at galactic centers, but I suppose they could be flung out occasionally into intergalactic space. That would make them hard to detect aside from gravitational lensing though. I haven't heard anything specific about these announcements but an intermediate mass black hole from a star cluster (if they exist, which they probably do) merging with a supermassive black hole is plausible, though probably less likely to be detected.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2023 17:18
|
|
|
I AM GRANDO posted:If you’re a senator and someone showed you proof that the US has spaceships from a civilization on another planet, how is your next response anything other than calling the president to demand a detachment of national guard soldiers to liberate that fucker and immediately put it on every tv channel? Writing a provision in a funding bill to exclude reverse-engineering of a captured spacecraft doesn’t even make sense, unless there’s just a “show it to congress first” provision. But what would they want to be done with one, just throw it out or something? also rubio never once actually says aliens or ets or nhis or anything non-human, either
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2023 17:22
|
|
|
Virgin Galactic had their first commercial mission with some Italian air force guys. They've been working on this for so long I kind of forgot about the whole project until now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-bnaq9BKio&t=2307s It's cool and I love the vehicles but man 2 minutes in microgravity is super underwhelming. What's the main limiting factor that's preventing them from going higher? It seems like there's plenty of space for more fuel so they should be able to accelerate it quite a bit more than that.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2023 20:25
|
|
|
mobby_6kl posted:Virgin Galactic had their first commercial mission with some Italian air force guys. They've been working on this for so long I kind of forgot about the whole project until now. Wikipedia says it has a service ceiling of 110 km, not sure why this flight didn’t even make it to 90 km. The problem with simply adding more fuel is that more fuel means it’s heavier, which means it would take more fuel, which makes it heavier, which takes more fuel… This is why traditional rockets will drop its lower stages/boosters to get rid of useless mass.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2023 20:45
|
|
|
mobby_6kl posted:Virgin Galactic had their first commercial mission with some Italian air force guys. They've been working on this for so long I kind of forgot about the whole project until now. Might be that more fuel would be a lot more expensive as they would be heavier and thus need to burn more fuel to get the added weight up so this is the sweet spot for time in microgravity for the prices they're charging?
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2023 20:45
|
|
|
Hmm, yes, maybe Italy didn't shell out for higher altitude package? Weigh is definitely a problem but that's why they have the mothership as a kind of first stage, I thought. Maybe that's just the first mission though and they'll push it farther next time.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2023 21:13
|
|
|
The stream I stumbled onto and watched was very choppy and low quality but one thing I remember is the (I think) Italian guy unbuckling himself and going over to the back and turning on a PC or something. The people announcing it said this was the experimental payload and I just kept wondering what the gently caress kind of experiment can you perform in low/micro gravity for only a couple of minutes that would produce anything useful.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2023 21:16
|
|
|
Boris Galerkin posted:The stream I stumbled onto and watched was very choppy and low quality but one thing I remember is the (I think) Italian guy unbuckling himself and going over to the back and turning on a PC or something. The people announcing it said this was the experimental payload and I just kept wondering what the gently caress kind of experiment can you perform in low/micro gravity for only a couple of minutes that would produce anything useful. A lot I imagine. They wouldn't be paying a lot of money to do an experiment like that in microgravity if the results weren't worth it one way or another. But I also imagine that by "experimental payload" they meant that the experiment was carrying something on the ship for the flight (crew? Something else? An ant colony?) and not that they're performing an experiment in those 2 minutes.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2023 21:48
|
|
|
Raenir Salazar posted:A lot I imagine. They wouldn't be paying a lot of money to do an experiment like that in microgravity if the results weren't worth it one way or another. I imagined they were paying for the joyride and the experiment part was just an afterthought so that they can go “see, we’re not just wasting money.”
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2023 21:49
|
|
|
Why do you think UFOs are from space? Is there anything that points to space rather than unexplained natural phenomena or anything else?
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2023 21:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 00:43 |
|
|
Boris Galerkin posted:The stream I stumbled onto and watched was very choppy and low quality but one thing I remember is the (I think) Italian guy unbuckling himself and going over to the back and turning on a PC or something. The people announcing it said this was the experimental payload and I just kept wondering what the gently caress kind of experiment can you perform in low/micro gravity for only a couple of minutes that would produce anything useful. There are microgravity experiments that are basically shining lasers into some liquid and using a high-speed camera to film how bubbles expand. I have a colleague who used to do them on commercial weightless flights so evidently a dozen or so instances of 20-30 seconds of zero-ish G was enough to get useful data. And yeah, getting to ride along without needing a grant big enough to pay for actual space travel is a big bonus.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2023 22:10
|
|