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If the core of this is that defense contractors are making secret deals to get money for not doing anything or negotiating deals without oversight, it doesn’t really have to have anything to do with aliens. It’s hard for me to follow the contours of the guy’s argument because he uses imprecise language for everything that isn’t about ufos, but isn’t the deal with him that he was denied access to the accounts of some offices that do defense deals and they were paying out unaccounted-for money?
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Jun 11, 2023 19:50
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mediaphage posted:i watched and enjoyed it. imo it hits differently than most of these sorts of things. i totally think he believes what he’s saying, to be honest. i’m confused as to why he’s do it otherwise. the grifting doesn’t pay as well as a defence job for a vet with a security clearance and a physics degree, if a bs (i assume). Is it as simple as somebody not wanting there to be an office that has oversight on contractor things and so discrediting the whole department? Where did grusch come from, anyway? I can’t imagine ever coming to believe that spacecraft from another civilization have crashed on Earth without actually seeing them and having actual scientists verify what I was looking at. Even then, the idea that I was being intentionally misinformed in some kind of conspiracy would occur to me way before I considered the possibility that aliens have crashed on Earth. Was this guy big into ufos before this? Do we know why he was appointed the ufo investigation guy?
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Jun 13, 2023 00:41
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Is it correct that nothing can be classified such that a senator doesn’t automatically have clearance to know about it? I’m sure that in practice, people just keep senators from knowing about things, but if it exists, they have clearance to see it?
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Jun 13, 2023 00:44
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Yeah, like Bob Lazar was obviously a guy who came up with what seemed like a good story and tried to sell it. This guy seems like he’s just describing what other people told him and he’s totally credulous about it. The only way I can make sense of it is that he already believed in all that stuff.
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Jun 13, 2023 01:13
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I want to know what Marjorie the Gathering thinks about space brothers. Abominations or grist for a polyamorous three-way between her and her husband?
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Jun 13, 2023 02:10
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Lars! posted:Absolutely. I am a general skeptic on extraterrestrials (mainly because of physics and biology), but some of the most intriguing UFO encounters are similar reports from US and Soviet nuclear missile officers that UFOs appeared over their missile sites and intefered with the electronics in their missile systems. If so they’re doing a real bad job because the apes they’re messing with have been cooking the planet for 30 years and there aren’t going to be very many species or biospheres left after too much longer.
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Jun 21, 2023 17:27
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Sir Kodiak posted:Considering that the Soviet encounter is described as this... If they wanted to save the biosphere, they probably should have exterminated all humans like 100 years ago tbh.
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Jun 21, 2023 17:59
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LanceHunter posted:I mean, right there you've got three words in a row that show immense limitations in what you are even conceptually capable of recognizing from some theoretical alien intelligence. "Technological", "spacefaring", and "civilization". We have no fundamental understanding of what these things might even mean outside of a human context, or if such things are purely human concepts that could not apply to some other intelligence. Yeah, I think seti people have thought about that before though. The gold records are not a serious attempt at communication because everyone on the project understood that no intelligence will ever encounter them. It’s not a flaw that seti is looking for intelligence that does things we know to look for: they’re very clear that they do that because those things are the only things we are able to look for right now. How do you look for something you could never have conceived of before you encountered it?
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Jun 22, 2023 19:26
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LanceHunter posted:Or, you know, let's spend $100M on research that might move the needle on the crisis in cosmology and actually advance human understanding of the universe, rather than indulging in a fantasy. What makes you think that money not spent on A will necessarily be spent on B, or spent at all?
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Jun 22, 2023 21:56
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Yeah I don’t know, it kind of seems like a sloppy troll, turning criticism of ufo beliefs back on an empirical endeavor deemed reasonable by people who dismiss ufo beliefs as lacking in evidence. Who knows for sure?
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Jun 23, 2023 03:13
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Lifroc posted:Thanks to whoever recommended the Ezra Klein podcast with Leslie Kean on the recent UFO revelations.. (or was it on another thread?) It’s just a sign of the ongoing collapse of a decadent empire, like how Romans got really into fortune-telling near the end.
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Jun 23, 2023 15:24
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cat botherer posted:Apparently a big part of it is being able to exclude other sources of detectable waves, especially from black hole mergers. If you’re a senator and someone showed you proof that the US has spaceships from a civilization on another planet, how is your next response anything other than calling the president to demand a detachment of national guard soldiers to liberate that fucker and immediately put it on every tv channel? Writing a provision in a funding bill to exclude reverse-engineering of a captured spacecraft doesn’t even make sense, unless there’s just a “show it to congress first” provision. But what would they want to be done with one, just throw it out or something? This whole thing is so stupid but just won’t end. Is it just a way to prove how many Americans are gullible morons? I already knew Rubio was a moron. Somebody get a quote from Trump and see if he blurts anything out about the space brothers agreeing to save him from jail.
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Jun 27, 2023 17:12
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He’s completely ruined Event Horizon because it’s like he’s the cohost now and all they talk about are hypothetical ufo scenarios.
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Jul 8, 2023 13:46
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Nessus posted:Oh hey new space thread. It’s the same as every time: there’s a lot of talk but no evidence.
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Jul 18, 2023 17:48
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It’s nothing until there’s incontrovertible proof that it’s something. If aliens were visiting the Earth, wouldn’t literally anything be different? If alien technology has been in the hands of the US and its contractors for ~100 years and they’ve never been able to learn anything from it, what difference would it make? I wish I knew what this guy was actually being prevented from learning about.
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Jul 27, 2023 02:10
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DrSunshine posted:So, if the claims put forth are taken at face value -- what Grusch had said about these UAP capabilities defying known laws of physics and so on -- then what that would imply is that all our known laws of physics and science are wrong, on a fundamental level. All of the Standard Model and General Relativity, which have been tested at accuracies up to one part in one hundred trillion and one part in ten trillion respectively, are essentially bullshit. We would need to rewrite everything from Newton on up. In fact, probably the basis of what we understand to be rationality itself would be undermined. Science doesn’t really work that way. The dude’s lying and there aren’t any ufos, but if there were then whatever physics they’re doing would have to be compatible with what we know is true. GPS doesn’t invalidate anything in newtonian mechanics just because it requires relativity to operate, just like Mercury’s orbit doesn’t prove that gravity is false. Anything you can do with Newtonian physics is still possible. We already know that our current models are getting something wrong, since relativity and the standard model of particle physics are incompatible. Probably we’ll be able to do some cool new poo poo once we figure out what’s incomplete between them.
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Jul 27, 2023 16:54
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The answer would be something like “the ufos aren’t technically objects with mass” or “the ufos aren’t technically moving through space” but actually shadows from a higher physical dimension or are made of weakly interacting particles or something. Just because you see something that should be impossible doesn’t mean that what you know is wrong—it just means that one of your premises needs adjustment. The answer would just be that what seems apparent, that an object is moving through the atmosphere in ways that would make it really hot or cause sonic booms etc, isn’t technically correct. That’s also the answer for what’s actually happening in those videos: in-camera effects like parallax shift or whatever make one thing appear to be another thing doing things it’s not actually doing.
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Jul 27, 2023 17:44
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It would have been out of communication range within a few years anyway, but that sucks for whatever we could learn about interstellar space in that time.
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Aug 1, 2023 19:04
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If there were a precursor civilization on the Earth hundreds of millions of years ago, we would be able to tell because they would have used up all the oil and already mined a bunch of things interesting to us, right?
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Nov 24, 2023 17:08
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Libluini posted:Not if they were psionic. We don't have any way to detect the residue of magic spells, after all. I thought fairy screams left a unique phosphorus isotope when terror-based.
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Nov 24, 2023 19:50
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quote:Beyond the Oort Cloud, on the distant edges of the Kuiper Belt, both probes will inevitably fall silent as the power of their generators run out of juice. Isn’t the Kuiper Belt like light years closer to the sun than the Oort Cloud? There’s no way we’re still getting Voyager data in a thousand years or whenever that thing hits the Oort Cloud.
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Dec 14, 2023 21:38
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_sexologyquote:Dubé and colleagues (2021) proposed that technological systems and guidelines enabling intimacy and sexuality in the limiting artificial ecosystems of space will need to be created.[1] They describe that these systems and guidelines will likely need to be designed to be both safe and hygienic, similar to the already established systems in place for other basic needs such as eating and grooming.[1] They also suggest that this challenge can be addressed by space organizations by considering the use of sexual technology adapted for space to meet the intimate needs of their astronauts, such as erotic stimuli, sex toys, and artificial erotic agents (e.g., virtual partners, erotic chatbots, and sex robots).[1]
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Dec 19, 2023 22:25
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Richard Nixon’s signature being potentially the last surviving evidence of humanity is a big lol to me.
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Jan 8, 2024 19:53
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How could all the nations of the Earth work in concert together keep a secret? Those loving guys all hate each other. Plus you got dumbass guys with superclearance-ultra posting state secrets to win arguments on twitter, from their own phone on their own wifi, with a static ip.
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Apr 25, 2024 00:12
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I’m surprised like Putin hasn’t tried to troll the Earth by faking ufos. I feel like the fsb could do a halfway decent job of buzzing Versailles or downtown Sydney in broad daylight with something otherworldly.
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Apr 25, 2024 01:52
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a pwn cocktail posted:This was the same argument used against people who believed the intelligence community were engaging in mass surveiallance, until it eventually did leak (a program that involved a huge amount of people). So you would expect a large secret program involving a lot of people to eventually have leaks with the same level of evidentiary support as something like what Snowden did? The timeline for Snowden was like ten years after TIA started. How long should it take for ufo stuff to leak to a comparable level of evidence (ie irrefutable)?
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Apr 25, 2024 16:14
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Quorum posted:I think you should clarify exactly what you mean by this, because I'm really intensely curious about your framing and how you're using the word "censorship" here. I’m going to be generous and assume they mean that reactionaries are getting more powerful in western liberal democracies in part because they foment resentment toward minorities and politicize vaccines/public health strategies.
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Apr 25, 2024 16:27
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There’s a strain of right-wing thought that’s extremely into esotericism and syncretic mysticism where ufos would fit right in. There’s no inherent link between counterculture and left politics—plenty of leftists are materialist monists and plenty of nazis (including the original ones) are way into magic and the supernatural.
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Apr 25, 2024 18:35
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DrSunshine posted:I wonder if we want to be honest about it, to make a good-faith effort, the ol' college try, we should change our horizons for what a space-exploration project should look like. Perhaps reorient our perspective and time-scales. In the past, during the middle ages, or in the Classical age, people did not seem to care that a cathedral or pyramid or Great Wall would take more than a human lifetime to build. Instead, those projects were embarked with the idea of honoring God, or surpassing the afterlife, or what-have-you. A higher ideological purpose went into these multi-lifespan projects, and they seemingly were embarked upon with no immediate tangible benefit. We just need an absolute tyrant willing to put a significant proportion of his empire’s resources toward the project of interstellar travel. Maybe someone could make a religion all about humanity becoming an interstellar species. But without all the zealotry and mass murder of Earth religions, just in case we find another civilization somewhere.
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Apr 27, 2024 02:41
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ashpanash posted:It's hard to express how wrong the conspiracy-filled are about scientists. The assumption that we ignore things because of dogma couldn't be further from the truth. There's little that would excite a scientist more than evidence of contact with aliens. Conspiracists contest the very idea of evidence, though. So when you tell then their evidence isn’t good enough to be taken seriously, they take it as an invalidation of their entire worldview. Which of course it is.
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Apr 27, 2024 11:53
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Sometimes a claim is not testable. That doesn’t mean it’s necessarily wrong, but that there’s no way to investigate whether it’s wrong or right.
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Apr 27, 2024 14:36
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Bug Squash posted:For anyone who hasn't caught up with the actual UFO thread: This reminds me of the Missing 411 guy, who will go to any bigfoot, ufo, or forteana conference that pays but will never say outright that he thinks it is or isn’t bigfoot, the grays, the smiley face killers, or hollow Earth kidnapping people out in the woods and then later returning their bodies staged to look like they died of exposure.
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Apr 27, 2024 18:32
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It would be pretty wild if every civilization inevitably develops this one specific Dyson swarm thing in a way such that it’s a permanent feature of their system. Or if every civilization just happens to synch up developmentally for some reason we’ll never be able to figure out through observation.
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May 14, 2024 01:28
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