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What is even the point of this thread? Every time feedback is given on moderation it seems the response is just "sorry we're not going to do anything different because that would involve actual effort."
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Sep 11, 2023 00:50
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Kild posted:He hates chinese people and defended wotc using the pinkertons so maybe you don't understand who you're defending. I think if we're being fair, Toshimo did not defend the Pinkertons in the case of "some random youtube guy gets the Pinkertons sicced on him for daring to show off some Magic cards early," what he instead did was repeatedly post to the effect of "lmao if you stupid loving idiots think this matters in any way, this is just how things work in America" which is pretty fuckin funny considering that "how things work in America" was apparently insufficient for him to not drop by and let everyone know he was glad that some person had died. I don't post in the Magic thread or even play Magic so I can't speak to Toshimo's conduct there except apparently the first, idk, half dozen probations on their rap sheet are all some variation of "man your posting in the magic thread is awful" which suggests to me, as I have mentioned before, that repeated slaps on the wrist don't actually seem all that effective in achieving any sort of result, I simply recognize them from other threads where occasionally they feel compelled to drop by in order to lecture everyone else on why they're all wrong and also stupid, so I don't really have a hard time believing their behavior in the magic thread might follow a similar pattern. Tarnop posted:Actually the response is Also drat but this response from Framboise sucks poo poo and really raises further questions as to why this thread even exists.
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Sep 11, 2023 01:11
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Antivehicular posted:I think Framboise was acting in good faith, and in the past I've generally deferred moderation on the M:tG thread because I don't read it or follow modern Magic, but it sounds like it's reached a point where it needs moderation for tone more than it needs subject-matter mastery, and I'm prepared to start moderating it more seriously. This is my big struggle as a TG mod, honestly: how vigorously to moderate threads where I don't know the particular topic? I've been hesitant, but I'm thinking that may need to change, because I hate being blindsided by these crappy situations where I just figured "I'll screw things up if I mod hard, better to let the community self-police." In all seriousness, don't rap sheets exist for exactly this sort of thing? So that you don't necessarily have to be an expert in every huge thread here (because yeah there are a lot of them) but can instead click on the list of probations someone has, see the first six or seven are all in the same thread for the same sort of thing, and go "oh okay, this is what this person's malfunction is"? Because that seems like it should be a much easier way to evaluate things than needing to familiarize yourself with Magic as a game and as it's discussed in SA tradgames.
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Sep 11, 2023 01:30
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Framboise posted:Good luck finding anyone willing to take that dump of a thread on in the capacity that's being demanded here. You've got your work cut out for you. I don't actually think "the capacity being demanded here" is unreasonable, it's "ban known lovely posters for longer than 24 hours at a stretch." Now you yourself have said that you think this is a thing that should be done, but that you feel like your hands are tied: Framboise posted:You're talking to the wrong person when it comes to bans though, because I've never understood why SA even allows people to have a long rap sheet and think that if you haven't learned after the first few, you never will and shouldn't be allowed to stick around, but apparently that's too mean. I don't have much of a say in that anyway. and I think that's worth noting here in the feedback thread, because I've also brought this point up before that right now it feels like there are basically only two forms of moderation, an endless revolving door of 6-24 hour probations or permabans when someone crosses the posting event horizon. I think that what's being asked for when it comes to chronically lovely posters who repeatedly act like assholes is both A). not actually all that difficult to deliver on, and B). if there's a difficulty it sounds like it's on the end of the forum moderation as a whole being reluctant to commit to escalating probations when someone continues to persistently act like a dipshit. I think when someone's response is "good luck moderating that shithole of a thread," that's another sign that perhaps how moderation happens could stand to be reevaluated.
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Sep 11, 2023 03:13
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I'm not coming at it from a Magic thread specific perspective to be clear. I'm thinking of how back in the day when bedlamdan used to regularly poo poo up tradgames because they were bored, eventually FactsAreUseless started giving them month-long probations mixed with bans and even told them "actually just don't post here anymore," and you know what happened? They stopped posting here, and the quality of the forum improved as a result. Just having a big rap sheet doesn't need to result in instant exile to the land of wind and ghosts but I think that if you can look at the top 6-10 probations in someone's rap sheet and they're all in the same thread for the same reason that maybe that's an indication that maybe that person just kinda sucks. Is their continued presence making the thread a better place or not? If not, why do they get to stick around and keep making it worse?
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Sep 11, 2023 03:59
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Leperflesh posted:I think it would be better to talk about "how we should moderate that thread" more and less "dump on Toshimo, specifically." Let's focus on broader questions: The only way moderation is ever going to be effective at actually moderating, i.e. curating a shared social space to be better, is if getting moderated isn't ultimately just a minor inconvenience. Yes, what "better" means is always going to be subjective and you will never get thousands of posters to agree on everything, but the pervasive sentiment over the last two versions of this thread has been an enormous reluctance to look at someone's lovely posts and just say "get the gently caress out of here." It doesn't even have to escalate straight to permabans but there's a huge gulf between 24 hours and forever and maybe that could stand to be exercised a bit more. I get that it's easier to just go "oh this guy is worthless" when they're posting, idk, obvious bigoted garbage or being outed as a huge heinous sex creep, but I think on the whole that seeing an announcement that, as far as I can tell, a regular person died of cancer as a great excuse to call them a class traitor and say "good riddance" should probably be met with a bit more "gently caress off" than a one day probe, and yet even the person who gave them that probation feels like they can't escalate things beyond that because it would be pointless for them to try and push for it. That's someone directly involved in the handing out of probations going "this system kinda sucks."
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Sep 11, 2023 04:54
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What did the dead guy do that was so disagreeable actually, this is something I have not seen anyone elaborating on. Were they a huge sex creep? Did they organize harassment campaigns? Did they do a murder-suicide? My bar for "this person in the tabletop game industry did some heinous poo poo" is set around those levels so if this is just a case of "well they were an influencer and did influencer things" then that's really going to make this whole "he's an rear end in a top hat but he's right damnit" thing seem a lot sillier.
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Sep 12, 2023 05:26
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So what I'm taking away from this is that "Toshimo is an rear end in a top hat but he isn't wrong" is, in fact, wrong, and probably should not be considered a great defense of his posting habits.
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Sep 12, 2023 07:29
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Until people informed me about Rutibex's lovely views, I had always assumed that he was some sort of deliberately insufferable gimmickposter whose shtick was "always saying the dumbest possible thing in all situations," but then it turned out that he was actually just a massive dipshit for real. It's funny too because every time he gets brought up someone brings up another Rutibex anecdote from another corner of the forums I'd never heard before like "he got banned from a video game thread for constantly giving people bad build advice and so he went and made his own thread to keep doing it in."
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Sep 13, 2023 04:43
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fr0id posted:It is not your job to rehabilitate problem posters. It is your job to safeguard the community. Always prioritize that over individuals, imo. This is really the crux of it, imo. I get the urge to want to be like "but what if this person could be rehabbed to not be so lovely" but letting this stuff drag out is how communities get worse, not better. If someone can't figure out that the way they post is why they keep eating escalating probations, that's a them problem.
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Sep 14, 2023 04:08
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HKR posted:your forums dot something awful dot com rap sheet isn't going to be used to deny you housing or job opportunities so I'm not sure why anyone would care that there are sixers on it. Frankly a clean rap sheet is far more suspicious. The one reason I could see for this is to make it easier for mods to see at a glance which probations are for someone being an rear end in a top hat and which are to be disregarded.
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Sep 20, 2023 04:59
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