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I just had a funny "I don't care what the cards are" run with jokers that just added a bunch of base chips and multiplier and would get almost 10k just from a high card hand, which is one way of dealing with the face down cards.
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Feb 6, 2024 00:53
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deep dish peat moss posted:I've been winning repeatedly by going for Flush decks and Straight decks every time but have no idea how to consistently win with other hands as my focus I have bad luck trying to reconfigure my deck to force flushes, it seems the only times I see a second one of those tarots in the right suit is when it's clubs and I haven't run into the anti-club boss yet. The jokers that give you easy straights are bonkers though. The pants joker that gains permanent +2 multiplier every time you play two pair is very nice, although I guess technically towards the end of the game there's not much incentive to keep playing two pairs unless you managed to level the hell out of it and skipped everything else. Low-cards builds with Hack + Fibonacci have some potential, although half the time they turn into straight builds anyhow since skipped number straights are a great way to trigger multiple 2/3/5s consistently. the holy poopacy fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Feb 6, 2024 |
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Feb 6, 2024 04:25
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err posted:Do the bosses hard force you into certain strategies? It seems like slay the spire was good because you could freestyle stuff. If I don't get a certain joker for my build, I may know before I even get there that I will lose. In my experience most boss abilities are pretty generalized. Of the demo bosses the only one that really has a huge impact on me for deckbuilding is the one that dumpsters club card values, which makes specializing in clubs terrible if it hasn't come up yet.
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Feb 8, 2024 01:42
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Popete posted:Yeah being able to re-enter shops would be nice. I too usually forget what round I'm in and then end up fighting Curelean Blue with a bunch of spare cash. You can check what the blinds are from the shop screen (it's one of the tabs under Run Info), but there's really no reason why you shouldn't be able to go back to the shop after leaving. I guess maybe they didn't want to gently caress with setting up a special UI case for closing the shop after you skip a blind? But yeah, it would be a great QOL feature.
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Feb 8, 2024 17:42
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No Wave posted:I compare most bosses to The Wall. I dont think most decks I've played have more trouble with The Mouth than the Wall. The exception is decks that both a.) are built to play a specific hand and b.) are leaning on that 40 chips per remaining discard card because that situation can get pretty awkward because you cant play out a trash hand for the redraws. If I'm not mistaken you can still play whatever random 5 cards against The Mouth, it will just score 0. But if I'm building around the 40 chips per discard joker then I'm going to be hunting for flat multiplier bonuses that don't care what hand I play so I can just play pairs (or even high card) and rack up decent damage.
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Feb 8, 2024 17:58
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No Wave posted:If the first hand you play is high card your only scoring hand will be high card (ask me how I know!!!) Sure, but when your plays start out at a base of 120 chips then you can hook that up with jokers that provide flat multiplier and do decent damage even if you're just playing high card.
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Feb 8, 2024 18:18
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The Kins posted:Oh poo poo, that price is right. 
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Feb 13, 2024 16:07
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No Wave posted:Did we talk about the nerfs from a few days ago? Popcorn is -4 now and costs 5 dollars which is a good change. Credit card got buffed which seems wacky to me but whatever. Idk what else has changed but anaglyph is still op. Credit card makes sense to me with the way the game's economy is structured. Using credit card means missing out on a lot of interest, and while in a lot of games it would be worthwhile to forego later rewards in order to frontload your build, Balatro's geometric difficulty progression means that an early credit card spree often translates into overkilling the next several antes for little or no added benefit and then hitting a wall (which might literally be The Wall.) And that's in the demo version; extending the game with higher antes is only going to make the trade-off worse because setting yourself up with a wombo combo that can kill a 60k enemy is no longer going to be enough. It's not especially useful to juice your build with a final shopping spree either because it takes a joker slot.
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Feb 13, 2024 17:22
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DaveWoo posted:
I was wondering why the collections page had undiscovered planets. I assume you actually have to score a 5 of a kind for this to show up?
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Feb 13, 2024 21:37
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No Wave posted:How do you think the main game's gonna go? I feel like it'll get stale if you're expected to get to the millions every game because there arent as many strategies that scale that high (even recognizing that a lot of jokers will be added to the game the stuff that gets you to 100 million has to be more limited than stuff that gets you to 60k). Maybe the ante 6 boss counts as a win and gets you a blue chip and you can get different colored chips by going higher? The ante requirements start getting extremely silly starting around Ante 10, so I wonder if that's not going to be where the "normal" run ends and the higher antes are going to just be endless mode/show off how busted your deck is victory lap stuff. EDIT: The promo shots on the Steam page show the ante counter being displayed out of 8, so yeah, that would imply that Ante 9 would be the boss (compare to the demo which displays ante out of 5 and then has cerulean bell at 6) and then Ante 10+ is crazy points prestige levels. the holy poopacy fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Feb 13, 2024 |
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Feb 13, 2024 22:32
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Fried Watermelon posted:how'd you get to 7 ante? The game increments ante after you beat the demo boss (which counts as ante 6.)
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Feb 15, 2024 19:04
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The incentive structure is a little bit weird since it encourages you to sandbag money to gain interest instead of spending it right away to pump up your deck so you can dunk on easy enemies harder (which also gives extra money, but on a much smaller scale.) I guess it does help create tension since it encourages you to push your luck and take risks that might make some early game rounds harder than they would be otherwise? Some kind of double-or-nothing type option might have been a better system for that, though.
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Feb 15, 2024 20:27
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The game's not even out yet, why would there be mods available already??
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Feb 18, 2024 06:34
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Thirsty Dog posted:I hope they did something to alter the scenario of having the "every draw after the opening hand is flipped" boss because it was extremely unfun and there appeared to be no ways to build with that in mind. It's wildly out of whack with the other encounters. Either have a deck that's reliable enough that you can spend a few discards trading face-down cards for face-up cards, a deck that's strong enough that you can discard to get a perfect hand that will more or less one shot the boss, or have a deck that adds enough base chips and multiplier that it doesn't particularly matter what you play (the banner joker that adds a bunch of chips for every unspent discard is a good start for this kind of build.) Or have a deck built around low number cards where you can sort by rank and play the 5 rightmost cards and probably score ok. Also, if you see that boss coming then you can try to grab and save a card-modifying tarot since you can use it during the boss fight to reveal face-down cards (and possibly make them irrelevant, if you play a suit change on three facedown cards when you have matching faceup cards to make a flush.) In general I think over-specializing is often a bit of a trap. If your deck needs specific hands to score reasonably well and it needs a bunch of discards to ensure it gets that hand and it still doesn't chunk off most of the boss's health then either you're devoting too many resources to economic boosts or you're too invested in something with not enough payoff. The face down cards feel mean but realistically you were probably going to die to most bosses in this scenario (outside of a few outliers like the boss that discards held cards, something 99% of builds will not give a poo poo about.) the holy poopacy fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Feb 18, 2024 |
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Feb 18, 2024 15:40
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MJeff posted:One thing I've started doing is just devouring as many Celestial Packs as I can, slightly less emphasis on Arcana Packs, but I grab them too. I'm always playing on Anaglyph, so if I see a Mega Celestial/Buffoon/Arcana pack reward for skipping a blind, I always slam that reward, because getting to pick up four Planet cards in one go can represent such an insane boost in power. My favorite skip reward by far is "increase [this hand]'s level by 3." Adding 6 levels to a particular hand is INSANE. And it gives you something to immediately lean into. The complaint isn't the boss that flips your starting hand face down (The House), it's the one that flips all cards that replaced played cards with facedown cards (The Fish.) You're not wrong, though, and that's one way to look at the problem: The House sticks you with 8-9 facedown cards right off the bat. By the time you get to 8-9 facedown cards with The Fish, you've already played 3 hands. In the demo I think the absolute maximum number of hands you can have to play is 6. If you ran into The Fish at e.g. 16k and can't burn it down in 3 hands plus a few handicapped hands played around the facedown cards, then how were you going to beat The Wall if it showed up instead? A deck that can't beat 16k in 3 hands + chip damage won't beat 32k in 4-6 hands. It is one of the harder boss blinds (it's almost always worse than The House, for example, at least in any way that matters--if you can beat the boss in under 3 hands then The House is technically worse for you but also it's absolutely not going to matter) but it's not uniquely difficult, there are quite a few bastard modifiers in the mix. the holy poopacy fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Feb 18, 2024 |
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Feb 18, 2024 18:36
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Thirsty Dog posted:The Wall is much less of a problem. You absolutely can have decks that synergise well enough to take out The Wall by judicious decision making but would still get annihilated by having everything face down, because it's making luck a huge factor. You can have decks that will score decent points every hand and huge points in a couple; if your ability to recognise and play the latter is hamstrung at the same time that the former is also depowered, you're in a world of trouble. The Fish still leaves you with more than half of the cards you see face up, so if you can beat a score of X with all your cards face up you are very likely to be able to beat a score of X/2 against The Fish. It does punish high variance decks that rely on burning a lot of cards to fish for very rare specific hands, but also that's just probably not a very good deck and if you need more than one hand with that kind of deck then you would have been killed by The Mouth (the first hand you play is the only type of hand you can score), plus you're kind of hosed by the end boss anyhow. Again, yeah, it's probably one of the top 3 nastiest boss modifiers but it's not really that much of an outlier. For my money the worst boss blind design (not in terms of difficulty, but in terms of how much it hard counters build options) the one that cancels out all clubs (including wildcards.) It turns several tarot and spectral cards into possible traps if it hasn't already shown up in a previous ante, and zeroing out 1/4 of your deck is bothersome enough even if you're not specifically invested in clubs. the holy poopacy fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Feb 18, 2024 |
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Feb 18, 2024 19:14
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Thirsty Dog posted:That does kinda ignore the impact of losing the discards, the cards you've discarded, or the ability to set up for future turns. It's simply not just the same as "get x/2" in half as many hands. On average, it is. The difference only becomes really pronounced at the extremes, which are usually not where you want to be anyhow. A deck that is very high consistency but lacks highroll potential will get a free win against The Fish and lose to The Wall. A deck that has high (but not extremely high) score potential but lacks consistency probably beats The Wall and probably loses to The Fish. A lot of middling decks are in trouble against either one and is going to dependent on luck of the draw either way. None of the above is in a very good position to win the run, although theoretically they have time to course correct if they can manage to clear the boss.
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Feb 18, 2024 19:59
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I feel that, conversely, you're overestimating how difficult it is to add consistency to a deck. A lot of jokers pump up score regardless of what hand you play (especially since this includes any foil/holo joker) and I feel like newer players tend to undervalue these since they don't specifically fit their build "archetype", sometimes to the point that they even hurt their preferred hands which could have used the generic boost. In that regard, yes, The Fish is pretty mean to newer players since it punishes a common assumption about the game, but that's because it's specifically trying to tell you that you're operating on a flawed assumption.
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Feb 18, 2024 21:14
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Thirsty Dog posted:Getting access to those jokers is not consistent, though. And those alone are simply not enough to beat the fish - you can't autopilot through it with blind hands, you still need to get lucky, and if you discard enough to get visibility then you're left with no way to manage those crucial final hands. You say that they're not consistent but hand-independent boosts are the most common type of joker. If you think there's not consistent access to generic score boosts then that does sound to me like you're writing off a lot of jokers that could be helping you. You can't always autopilot through The Fish with blind hands (there are specific builds like full never-discard builds that absolutely can, but you're not consistently going to be able to do that) but having enough of a base that you can play one decent hard hand while you have full visibility and then chip it down with easy hands is not terribly demanding and probably a good idea for other reasons. It don't think it's a skill issue so much as it is a playstyle issue, or else The Fish would cause a disproportionate number of losses for me too. I don't have a 100% winrate against the demo but The Fish is not a prominent source of losses for me. Maybe someone who's better than me can contradict me and if I was even better I wouldn't be losing to anything else, I dunno. And again, even disregarding build possibilities, there are special cards that can play around the flipped cards mechanic. Card-modifying tarots always reveal the cards they're played on, and the suit-setting cards (including wildcard, to a lesser extent) let you force flushes using flipped cards regardless of what they were originally, so if you see The Fish coming or even just are worried about it you can keep a tarot in your back pocket for emergencies. Which is also good idea anyhow because they're useful against the end boss's gimmick as well.
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Feb 19, 2024 01:32
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Snooze Cruise posted:balatro: the hit new game they are going to make a million clones of oh no, how terrible that would be
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Feb 19, 2024 22:11
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 what the poo poo is this
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Feb 20, 2024 16:57
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the holy poopacy posted:
 Answer: it was good. My first two jokers (other than a Popcorn to get the ball rolling) turned played face cards to gold cards and gave money for playing face cards, so I got quite a bit of money generation whether I played or held face cards. Then I got the DNA card which copies a single card if you play it alone as the first hand of the round, which let me stuff my deck with gold kings, and then I got the pictured legendary and started hunting for Hanged Man cards, and since that wasn't silly enough I also picked up Photograph and then replaced it with "1.5x mult for every held King." So most rounds consisted of playing a single king, copying it, and immediately clearing the round with overkill. It looks like new stuff you unlock is immediately available in the current run, which is very nice IMO.
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Feb 20, 2024 17:18
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It seems like blind thresholds scale up more slowly than in the demo, too, so there's a bit more breathing room. It does make a bit of sense because there's higher difficulties available now, but I will miss the aggressive pacing of the demo. I think it was a big part of the addictiveness, there was very little filler compared to e.g. Slay the Spire, Luck Be A Landlord, etc.
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Feb 20, 2024 17:40
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barnold posted:how in the poo poo are you supposed to build a deck to beat The Fish. is there a joker that reveals face down cards somewhere Either have enough things that add +chips and +multiplier and xmultiplier regardless of what you play that you can get useful amounts of points from lovely hands, have enough things that enable big hands that you can get them reliably even with few discards or even just blindly guessing, or if you're specialized in playing very specific hands that you have to burn discards to fish for then make sure they're good enough that you can blow through anything with one big hand. You can also play around the facedown cards by puzzling out what they're likely to be based on suit/rank sorting cross-referenced to what's left in your deck, or by holding on to a tarot card that modifies selected cards (which will briefly reveal whatever you use them on, and also possibly render the card's original identity irrelevant.)
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Feb 20, 2024 17:50
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DaveWoo posted:Yeah, Endless Mode gets ridiculous very quickly. Ante 12 is 300,000,000 chips. Was just about to post this. I continued my earlier run into endless mode and was feeling like very hot poo poo after Ante 11, that didn't last very long.
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Feb 20, 2024 18:44
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Green Deck is going to make a lot of people happy I think: you get money based on hands/discards remaining instead of getting interest, so if you like to invest all your money right away so you can overkill early rounds then it's going to make a lot of money. I'm irritated that difficulties have to be unlocked separately for each deck though, there's too many decks for that.
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Feb 20, 2024 19:15
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  motherfuckersit is now ok that every deck needs to be leveled separately because I only care about one
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Feb 20, 2024 20:20
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Popete posted:I'm confused by the "per round" descriptor on a lot of cards. Like the tickets that give you +1 discard/hand "per round", that would seem to imply if I'm in round 5 I should get +5 hands but I only get +1. Each round you get X hands and Y discards (normally 4 hands/3 discards.) If you have those bonuses, you get X+1 or Y+1 hands/discards. WarEternal posted:White stake seems a lot easier with the full version, less restricted than the demo. I haven't lost with any of the 4 decks I've tried so far. I got to stake 12 with a ridiculous set of multiplicative jokers but I couldn't get past that. I like the green deck the most at the moment. The blinds are scaled down; ante 5 for example (what used to be the last full ante before the demo boss) now requires 22k instead of 32k. The final boss goes up to 100k now but you get 8 more rounds to build up.
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Feb 20, 2024 20:46
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Popete posted:I think because there is more cards now you have a bigger pool to draw from and it can be harder to build a focused deck early on. My first few runs were terrible. My advice remains the same as before: don't worry about building a focused deck early, grab whatever generic +chips/+multi you can get your hands on and worry about refining your loadout later on. With the lower blind amounts it's easier than ever to bludgeon your way through the first dozen or so rounds without really needing to specialize.
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Feb 20, 2024 23:51
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err posted:how often are you guys acummulating interest early on? i guess you aim for it, but if a good joker comes up, take it? It depends, some decks are better for it than others. The red/blue decks don't directly improve your money situation but they let you get by with a lot more sandbagging since the extra resources let you get away with skimping on your deck, and obviously yellow helps a lot. Also the first difficulty level is a real bastard for trying to build up a bank. Generally if I can get away with it I like to try to keep my money above $15 though.
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Feb 21, 2024 01:46
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 Fuuuuck I was on track to clear the dreaded round 300 million blind and then I bottom decked two of my polychrome 7   EDIT: I just realized I had a throwaway hand to spend which let me dig up one of them, leaving me 10 million short.
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Feb 21, 2024 04:32
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faantastic posted:Spectral packs rule because I buy them thinking of the possibilities and promptly gently caress up whatever my deck was because I am greedy and have no foresight. One time I got my hand size down to 5. What do I need all those other cards for anyways? (The upshot was that 2/3 of my deck was black 7s, so this actually murdered everything up to 300m.)
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Feb 21, 2024 15:07
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Tibbeh posted:so I've done about half a dozen runs or so and the highest I've gotten is ante 7. Anyone got tips for deck building because it feels like I'm just throwing poo poo at the wall and its not working. Game's great fun though, it keeps bringing me back even if I'm bad at it Broadly, in order to score well you need: 1. A way to add chips 2. A way to add multiplier 3. A way to multiply multiplier Playing big hands and leveling them up is a decent source of chips, but a poor source of multiplier. The difference in multiplier between playing something like a level 4 flush and playing an unleveled high card is less than a single mediocre joker, the biggest thing you're getting from the flush is chips. Jokers are a great source of multiplier. Lots of jokers add multiplier and a lot of them are not even particularly specialized (which is good, because if you're relying on base hand scoring then you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket unless it's a really really good basket and a lot of the basic "+chips/+multiplier for a specific hand" jokers are not really worth it unless they have something like permanent scaling or multiplicative multipliers.) There are also ways to add chips from your jokers, but these are not as common as you need to keep an eye out for them. If you have a lot of chips from jokers and a lot of multiplier from jokers then the actual hand you play doesn't matter much, but if you only have multiplier from jokers then you need to be scoring good 5-card hands to get any reasonable score at all. At this point a joker that helps you get those good hands more reliably starts to look pretty useful, but again, just hitting the big hand every hand probably isn't enough if you don't have some added multiplier. Suppose for example that you have 5 jokers adding an average of +10 multiplier each (a fairly mediocre build.) If you play a single ace, you score 16 chips x 51 multiplier for a little over 800. If you score a level 4 flush with decent card values you might score something like 120 chips x 60 multiplier = 7200. So you better hope that you can use enough tarots/spectral cards that you can reliably score that flush. On the other hand, if you have 3 jokers adding +10 multiplier each and 2 jokers adding +100 chips, then your single ace now scores almost 3600 and your flush scores 8800. The flush is still obviously better but the gap is much smaller and it's not as immediately fatal if you miss your flush. (If you only have chips from jokers and no real multipliers, you're probably gonna die barring Shenanigans, because even leveled up hands have very low multiplier compared to what you get from jokers. If you had +250 chips from jokers with no source of multiplier, the same flush is now only scoring 3700, about as bad as a level 1 high card from the more balanced loadout. Also, since chips are less common on jokers you're probably not even going to get to +250.) These aren't very high scores, but these are pretty low bonuses for jokers, equivalent to the modifiers on holo/foil cards. Which means that if you get all shiny cards you can have a set of jokers that gives one of the sets of chips/multiplier above in addition to the actual bonuses on the joker! So go for those shiny cards, the skip bonus that guarantees one in the next shop is very good unless you have a rock solid joker build and/or no money. (Which is another important point: try not to be broke. Holding onto cash between rounds earns you interest, unless you're playing with the Green Deck. Don't go below $10 unless there is something amazing for sale, like a shiny joker with a big value ability.) Similarly, the voucher that makes shiny jokers more common is extremely valuable. Even then, that only goes far. A reasonably strong joker base chips/multiplier joker build with 2 foils and 2 holos might see something like, I dunno, +270 chips and +90 multiplier. At this point you're clearing 25k on a high card and 39k with a level 4 flush. That probably gets you over the finish line, but you still might get sunk by a particularly nasty boss blind. After a certain point you need to stop looking at things that add multiplier and start looking at things that multiply multiplier. The worst joker in that build might only be adding +20 multiplier, which is only about 25% of your score. If you swap it out for a joker with x1.5 multiplier, you're going to get a much bigger boost. And that's equivalent to a polychrome joker that does absolutely nothing else for you, there are much better multipliers available. There are also never any diminishing returns on multiplicative bonuses: if you play a level 4 flush and have a single joker that gives +20 multiplier it just tripled your score, but a second +20 multiplier joker only increases it a further 40%. But no matter how many x2 jokers you have they will always double your score, which racks up very quickly. The only caveat is that you still need a reasonable base score for the x2 jokers to fire off, if you get too greedy fishing for polychromes and big multipliers then you will hit the wall pretty quickly--you still can't neglect the need for base chips/multiplier. tl;dr: 1. Pick up some jokers that add chips 2. Pick up some jokers that add multiplier 3. Pick up some jokers that multiply multiplier the holy poopacy fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Feb 21, 2024 |
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Feb 21, 2024 17:33
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Veryslightlymad posted:Surprised people are struggling with the Black deck. I've found it to be the easiest to play with so far (aside from the checkerboard deck... Good LORD) Black starts out way harder than any of the other colored decks since it does literally nothing until you get a 6th joker (and possibly a 7th if you got an early negative.) It also has a permanent economic disadvantage since you lose out on $1 every round from having one less hand, which doesn't sound like a lot but hurts pretty badly since you absolutely can't afford to bank money early. Conversely, I find blue to be one of the easiest and most consistent decks; 5 hands can easily clear the first ante without having to buy anything, so you're free to bank money/pick useful skips/grab expensive stuff that comes up.
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Feb 21, 2024 17:50
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Veryslightlymad posted:I've found it's most helpful to just slam down as many Jokers as fast as possible (with most decks) and then sort them out later. Black gives you more options. I guess I need to git real gud then because I find it takes lot of luck to clear the first ante with 3 hands and no jokers (which is a scenario I've found myself in when the shop wouldn't cooperate.) It's still quite doable but there's no guarantee that the cards cooperate, whereas other decks pretty much can just sleepwalk through the first two antes.
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Feb 21, 2024 18:13
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Kuros posted:Honestly, just about any common decent joker will clear the first couple antes with minimal effort and cost. Sure, but there's no guarantee that you get one right off the bat and the black deck puts you on a much shorter timer to get something going. If the shop only serves you planets/tarots/econ jokers/things that are too expensive for your starting funds then by round 3-4 you have to start praying you just constantly luck into straights or better. Having a 4th play gives you a lot more margin of error on your draws and means you have more money in the bank for when something good shows up, on top of whatever the actual ability of your deck is.
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Feb 21, 2024 20:19
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I think I figured out what I was doing wrong with the black deck--I had been very reluctant to take early skips because the deck starts so weak that taking on anything past the first blind without a shop is risky, but this is the wrong way to look at it. The risk:reward ratio on those early fights is very bad, so black decks might as well YOLO and mash skip. You're still more likely to die on the first boss than other decks, but you'll still probably win, and the losses take under a minute, and the resources from skipping mean you're likely to be in better shape than if you tried to fight your way through anyhow. I still find other decks more consistent overall but I can see the appeal now.
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Feb 22, 2024 01:00
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 Oh poo poo, I thought I was hosed but it turns out the timing on Burglar lets you dunk on the needle. gently caress yeah.
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Feb 22, 2024 01:22
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Hackan Slash posted:I wish they would do something to change the first ante. If you don't get offered a flat mult card in your 4 chances you're probably done, and you get maybe one chance to reroll and even if you do you're so far behind in econ. It's pretty easy to clear 600 points on the first boss blind without any boosts by fishing for straights or better (although if The Manacle comes up it's harder.) If you manage to get two ~300 point hands you're golden, but playing a straight and then several two pairs is a viable route for most decks too. The black deck is the only deck that seriously struggles to clear the first ante without spending anything and even it has pretty decent odds, especially if good skip rewards are available.
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Feb 22, 2024 01:46
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Yeah, stone cards do not count towards qualifying for any hand but they get scored regardless.
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Feb 22, 2024 03:20
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