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Shaman Tank Spec posted:Also an expert on BBC just said that the tender lost contact with the sub "about 2/3 of the way" on the descent which sounds incredibly ominous, especially because 2/3 of 6km is 4km, which is the depth their subs were failing at previously. Titanic is only ("only") at 3.7km depth, so within the supposed design of the sub. OTOH 2/3rds of that is 2.5 km, still ridiculously deep and if the thing was flawed then imploding at that point isn't crazy. I don't know much about carbon fiber, but isn't it much harder to detect flaws and progressive stress failures in that? As compared to metals which are way more predictable and have plenty of known-good methods to detect fatigue or weaknesses. Anyways it seems like if carbon fiber was a smart material to make submarines out of someone other than these show-string idiots would have done it first. edit: That DICK! posted:If the sub imploded they’d probably never find any trace of it right? Cause it’d be all imploded and the fish would eat all the goo? the violent implosion stuff is mostly what happens on the inside. Klyith fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Jun 20, 2023 |
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Jun 20, 2023 16:00
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you fool! a submersible with a meat compartment would make your jerky cold, not warm!
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Jun 20, 2023 17:57
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Pookah posted:I saw today that one of the people in the sub is a hugely experienced deep-sea diver, Paul-Henri Nargeolet. He's old enough to have been in every vessel capable of descending to the Titanic wreck, he's been down there many many times, and even with all those years of experience, he chose to get into this obvious deathtrap: I think he was just so obsessed with the Titanic that he'd risk death to see it. He had to have known about the whole Marine Technology Society thought this sub was a crock of poo poo. He's written articles for the MTS journal! He's probably in the MTS. lmao RMS Titanic Inc, the company that Nargeolet works for, is part of the same company that does the "BODIES!" exhibition -- ie the chinese knock-off of Body Worlds that is probably using executed criminals and black-market sources. And they've been playing games with bankruptcy to sell off Titanic artifacts. The dude is willing to work for a scum business just to keep doing Titanic dives.
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Jun 20, 2023 22:02
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Three Olives posted:I think one of the most interesting military secrets that we know that exists but have no loving clue about it besides that it is certainly a capability that we have. quote:In 2004, the Navy shut down both transmitters, with the explanation that very low frequency (VLF) communication systems had improved to the point that the ELF system was unnecessary. Also like the main reason for having ELF communications with subs was to stay in contact with SSBN subs that stay deep submerged for months at a time during the cold war. These days the likelihood of needing to order a revenge strike against a surprise massive first strike attack is seen as low.
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Jun 20, 2023 23:27
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Deptfordx posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamish_Harding Yet another billionaire nerd who names their expensive toys after Iain M Banks scifi spaceships, ignoring that Banks was a socialist and the greedy rich motherfuckers in the books are villains.
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Jun 20, 2023 23:33
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Random Stranger posted:I know the reason all ships handy are going to help is because at sea you always help if you're able to. But I'd like to think those pipe layers aren't looking very hard. they're all about laying pipe, not giving a handy
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Jun 21, 2023 01:58
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Dick Jones posted:If it imploded, wouldn't some of the debris like fabric or tubing or plastic computer parts be floating on the surface by now? I'm not sure if conditions are calm and sunny enough to even spot something like that though. If it was 2.5 km down when it imploded, it might take a while before any debris gets to the surface. Stuff like fabric and hard plastic isn't super buoyant, it wouldn't really rocket right up. I'd imagine it might take days or weeks. And over that time it'll be well spread out by currents. Stuff that is buoyant like foam or lightweight plastic or a human body gets crushed into bits.
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Jun 21, 2023 03:32
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Cowslips Warren posted:Sound is weird under water. I mean just because you hear banging from "around there" doesn't mean it's where you think it is. Seems like them losing contact with the sub wasn't an infrequent thing, if it also happened one of the times a reporter happened to be around to witness it. "Welp the text message system we cobbled together with random junk from Tractor Supply isn't working again. You know the drill, shut off the wifi for the passengers."
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Jun 21, 2023 04:14
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Skippy McPants posted:Dang, comparing Limiting Factor's pressure hull to the Titan's paints a pretty stark contrast. Heck with that, compare their dive weight release mechanisms:  a bunch of expensive precision gizmos, probably 2x redundant  not pictured: all the people in the sub leaning against one side, rocking back and forth to work that rusty hook off the rusty eyelet
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Jun 21, 2023 13:48
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kalleth posted:It seems to me that their "philosophy" was to consider everything that wasn't the pressure hull, or weight release mechanisms, "not safety critical". They directly said their design philosophy is "most accidents are caused by human error, so don't bother trying to accident-proof the hardware". Groversub posted:The vast majority of marine (and aviation) accidents are a result of operator error, not mechanical failure. As a result, simply focusing on classing the vessel does not address the operational risks. Maintaining high-level operational safety requires constant, committed effort and a focused corporate culture – two things that OceanGate takes very seriously and that are not assessed during classification. Dumbest loving thing I've ever seen.
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Jun 21, 2023 14:21
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SlurredSpeech609 posted:Here's a video from a Spanish influencer that went on a trip last year. They have an issue on descent and the pilot drops one of the sandbag ballasts with the bluetooth controller. loving lmao. "I'm going to drop ballast from one side. You watch." "Two dropped. From both sides. 😬"
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Jun 21, 2023 15:56
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Turpitude II posted:lol. hm, i wonder why most marine accidents are from human error. probably not because the mechanical side of things are engineered, made, tested, etc a billion times over to the strictest of standards. all subs are basically the same thing, so it's just a case of the people on board playing silly buggers. well not on THIS one, we are all very professional in here. *looks at chart of airplane showing the locations of bullet holes recorded from planes that made it back to base* "Well, obviously we need to put armor on all those red dots. Those are the only places where they get hit!"
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Jun 21, 2023 16:13
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Pookah posted:I went back to see if I got mixed up, but that what the report says: There's deep water just to the east of the Bahamas. They're right on the edge of the continental shelf.
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Jun 21, 2023 18:38
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Hazo posted:The deepest part of the Bahamas is something like 7,000 feet. Great Bahama Canyon is up to 4000 meters, Titanic is 3700m.
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Jun 21, 2023 18:46
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Pookah posted:There are at this point, dozens of absolute WTF design choices that even a total ignoramus like me can spot, but why the HELL IS IT WHITE? Most research DSVs seem to be white? Probably helps with visibility during normal operation and recovery? Since like normally you have a team of divers helping secure the thing (to some crane cables in a professional operation, to their half-baked launch and recovery platform for Groversub). Orange and red don't show up well under water. OTOH a real DSV has like half a dozen other helpful safety mechanisms. Rupert Buttermilk posted:I'm just saying that if they can get a detailed 3D sonar image of approximately where the submersible is/was, then they'd really be able to tell, generally, what happened, and whether or not they even need to bother rushing to try and get it. To get high-detail side-scan sonar pictures that would show something as small as Groversub, it doesn't have really long range. So to look at the deep sea floor you have to have a robo-sub that is way down, attached by cables to a boat. And you have to motor slowly back and forth in long lines to build up the picture. tl;dr everyone would be long dead long before imaging sonar could find them
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Jun 21, 2023 23:41
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Butterfly Valley posted:Anyway if I were on that sub I'd have 100% wigged the gently caress out days ago and would have pleaded with the rest to murder me to hasten the end. If I was about to take a ride on that sub I would have seriously asked if there were cyanide pills on board as soon as I saw the ballast release "mechanism".
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Jun 22, 2023 01:14
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Yolo Swaggins Esq posted:Can someone repost the rusty rear end ballast pipes and bags for me? Klyith posted:Heck with that, compare their dive weight release mechanisms:
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Jun 22, 2023 01:59
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Steve Yun posted:Running list of red flags: The waiver where you give specific consent to be turned into hamburger or asphyxiated to death, and absolve the company of all responsibility.
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Jun 22, 2023 02:14
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daslog posted:There is a possibility that they made it down to the Titanic and got stuck on the ship and can't surface because the Submersible was designed poorly. Assuming that's the case, and someone decides to send down a robot to find them, will anyone bother to bring the bodies back to the surface? Seems like a risky waste of time. Possibly, if the groversub got stuck in a way that a robot DSV with manipulator arms can easily free it, they'd do it just to know exactly how it happened. But no way the bodies are ever recovered without the whole groversub being recovered.
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Jun 22, 2023 02:42
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smoobles posted:also the more I think about it, there's no way they were at the ocean floor. If they didn't implode, it would've been a power or comms failure, and they would have dropped the ballast (which can be done with or without power) The one thing we know for sure is their comms with the surface failed 2/3rds of the way through descent. The last time that happened they started dropping ballast to go back up. So that's probably the "procedure". (Then comms came back and they resumed the dive.) OTOH this is a crack-hand operation and maybe they've stopped aborting the dive when they lose comms because it happens all the time. Their ballast drop systems were extremely improvised. It seems plausible that if they had an electrical failure (cutting comms and standard ballast controls) that their whole "everybody sit on one side to roll the sub so the pipes fall off" thing didn't work. So that would be the slow horrible death on the bottom of the ocean. A submersible expert doesn't think they imploded, because implosions would make a loud boom detectable on passive sonar. But a carbon fiber sub is way out in the "not well characterized" zone so maybe it's possible for carbon fiber pressure tubes to fail in ways that don't make a big boom, or it makes a noise that wouldn't be instantly recognizable.
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Jun 22, 2023 15:49
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Seth Pecksniff posted:No I meant how is he great at Twitter when he dropped that n-word rant This person said: Windows 98 posted:hate to say it but this failson is great at twitter. everyone else whining about him liking OF models pics is wrong. and Grey Cat is asking "you think the rant about nword was good?" (OTOH I have no idea what Windows 98 is even talking about as the twitter they quoted is not the failson.)
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Jun 22, 2023 16:12
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Ratios and Tendency posted:The Titanic wreck is way too deep for any crabs apparently. Not at all. You can see some crabs in Cameron's footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS8K1lbicb8
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Jun 22, 2023 16:28
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The Bananana posted:Ok, so, rescue aside. (Lol) Until we have some idea what happened no assumption is possible, but if I was betting I'd put money that they'll never be found. Basically the only scenarios I see that result in them being found are: 1. Their untested ballast fail-safes worked correctly and they are floating on the surface right now. 2. The maximum stupid irony death where they made it to the Titanic wreck and got stuck on something. The next dive to the titanic discovers them wedged into the grand staircase or whatever. Anything else -- failed catastrophically or sunk intact -- means the remains are somewhere in the Titanic debris field and probably will never be found (or even seriously searched for). Looking for a small sub in a field of wreck junk would be hard. edit: lmao possibly wrong before I finished writing the post
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Jun 22, 2023 16:59
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LASER BEAM DREAM posted:People kept saying an implosion would be picked up by acoustic buoys. Did they overestimate the noise level or sensitivity of the equipment? Nobody's made a carbon fiber sub before, so maybe carbon fiber subs make a different sound when they implode.
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Jun 22, 2023 17:32
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it dont matter posted:They're always listening aren't they? Yeah there's networks of passive hydro-acoustic listening devices all around the ocean. Military ones, for detecting submarines and whatnot, and scientific ones for doing science poo poo. Like even back in the 60s they heard the Thresher imploding, and modern stuff is way better. But again, who knows what a carbon fiber sub sounds like if it implodes.
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Jun 22, 2023 17:51
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TheMightyBoops posted:I looked up the Gabe Newell and James Cameron subs and they looked a lot safer, maybe they should have made something like that. The Gabe one did like 26 deep sea dives in a year to the Mariana Trench. Gabe Newell was extremely disappointed, he bought the sub thinking he was diving to the Marinara Trench.
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Jun 22, 2023 18:02
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Welp it was an instant death, I don't have to feel bad about this thread.
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Jun 22, 2023 20:03
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Wee posted:Ignores the "recovery of bodies" question. Slowly working up to "there are no bodies, they got imploded"
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Jun 22, 2023 20:06
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wet_goods posted:Tbh I’m impressed they found it as fast as they did yeah, I figured it would be hard to find it with the existing Titanic debris field but the ocean floor in front of the bow of the Titanic is clean, and the debris field is shaped like a long comet behind it also speaks to how much tech has improved between "looking for the Titanic in 1986" and "looking for the small imploded bits of a lovely sub in 2023" edit: Cosmik Debris posted:idk. I prolly would have done the same thing, but the sub was 1600 ft from the titanic. That's the "first place anybody should have looked" insofar as its the most likely place for it to be. Klyith fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Jun 22, 2023 |
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Jun 22, 2023 20:20
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teen witch posted:Next reporter asking “OK BUT CAN WE RECOVER THE BODIES??” needs a can of Campbell’s Chunky thrown at their head. while being told to open the can if he wants to see what the bodies look like
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Jun 22, 2023 20:30
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trilljester posted:I guess my biggest question out of this is why didn't Oceangate consult with or even hire the people that designed James Cameron's subs? It's not like they didn't have the money to afford it. Nah, OceanGate didn't have the type of infinite money to make a good sub. The passengers were billionaires, the owners not so much. All the cut corners for material choices and improvised systems were almost certainly budget because they couldn't afford the real thing. Like, a big carbon fiber cylinder is way cheaper than a cast titanium one.
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Jun 22, 2023 20:42
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Carbohydrates posted:I don't think an Own Goal counts for negative score in all games but, regardless, killing yourself definitely doesn't up your score. I should have workshopped this joke some more and I am truly sorry for the victims and their families who were hurt by my poorly thought out bit ignore those naysayers! if you stop to think about your jokes and follow all the comedy rules, you're never gonna be remembered as an innovator!
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Jun 22, 2023 21:01
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LuckyCat posted:Can someone explain how they were able to get that 450k of loans forgiven, or through what program? I’m not very smart. I get that the real reason is corruption or Trump or the oligarchy but there has to be at least an “official” reason right? PPP loans during COVID was a program that basically said "Here's some money to keep your business operational. If you keep all your employees for X duration, you don't have to pay us back." Good program but horribly abused by large corporations.
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Jun 22, 2023 21:04
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I don't think anything gets totally incinerated, there's just not enough time before the water hits it a microsecond later. The air gets heated up to super-high temperatures because it's rapidly compressed, and the partial pressure of oxygen is so high that some things would start to spontaneously combust... but there's near-zero time to actually burn.
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Jun 22, 2023 21:37
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zedprime posted:It's hitting temperatures and pressures that it's probably not worth talking about chemical reactions as trivial as oxygen that's reacting with people as much as the contents of the sub hitting temperatures liberating them of all of their chemical bonds and condensing their plasma into ocean salts and simple aminos moments later. I really don't think that's the case. The air is super-hot, but it takes time for heat to conduct from the air into a solid object. You can put your hand into a hot oven and your hand isn't instantly cooked. Wave your hand through an open flame, the fire is even hotter than the oven but in the shorter time you're still fine. Get compressed in an imploding sub... even hotter, but it's over in microseconds. Like, do that compression cylinder demo video youtube above with a bit of beef fat instead of cotton fluff and I very much doubt it lights on fire. The physical impact and rupture is gonna leave everything very trashed, so still no recoverable bodies. But they weren't vaporized.
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Jun 22, 2023 22:12
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Carlos Lantana posted:There once was a sub off Nantucket. they built it from carbon and a porthole quite bargain then into the deeps they did plummet
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Jun 22, 2023 22:59
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big nipples big life posted:I don't trust the wsj for poo poo, why would the navy start listening right after they lost comms if the people the comms were going to didn't report the sub missing for another 8 hours? Probably a slight inaccuracy by the reporter, or eliding for brevity. The Navy started looking at it's recordings as soon as they were alerted about the missing sub. They found what was probably an implosion in their recordings right after the sub lost comms, and alerted the incident commander shortly after the sub was reported missing (hours after the actual destruction).
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Jun 22, 2023 23:43
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funeral home DJ posted:Carbon Fiber is tough as hell for its relative weight, but its failure mode is basically "do nothing, then shatter into splinters". Planes and other poo poo that needs to be light can make good use of carbon fiber, I literally don't understand why it was used in place of better metals in this sub. Forged titanium is super expensive. And the light weight meant they could do the launch and recovery "easily" from their "innovative" semi-submersible platform, rather than needing a much bigger ship with bigass cranes to lift a heavy metal-hulled sub from the water. Basically, two major ways to save money in one. Just ignore the safety specs.
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Jun 23, 2023 00:14
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Wile E. Toyota posted:This shocked me so much that I went to the site just to see and there are now over 30 "fanfictions," most of which involve the guys loving each other. It's rare that things on the internet shock me anymore, but I was absolutely appalled. this stuff has to be getting churned out be AI, right?
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Jun 23, 2023 05:57
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