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Megillah Gorilla posted:Potential spoilers for next season from the Instagram of the voice actress for Emily. This kind of thing has happened before, it's hardly a first. Still, this seems rather easy to read compared to other events so my suspicious mind half questions if this was a planned leak. With what is happening in it, the fandom is going to be talking about it and what it all could mean or happen next. It comes off a little too perfect for that is what I'm saying. Anyone else feel the same?
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Apr 18, 2024 17:29
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I like the idea of The Vees becoming the main threat in season 2. It would be predictable as all poo poo for, say, Alastair to sow discord amongst them but the various factions, deals and bargains that go on between the citizens of Hell is one of my favourite aspects of the lore and it would be a lot more interesting to show them being a strong alliance who work well together even if they get on each other's nerves from time to time. It could be a toxic side to the show's general message that we're stronger when we work together.
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Apr 19, 2024 09:21
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Adrianics posted:I like the idea of The Vees becoming the main threat in season 2. It would be predictable as all poo poo for, say, Alastair to sow discord amongst them but the various factions, deals and bargains that go on between the citizens of Hell is one of my favourite aspects of the lore and it would be a lot more interesting to show them being a strong alliance who work well together even if they get on each other's nerves from time to time. It could be a toxic side to the show's general message that we're stronger when we work together. That pretty much feels like exactly where the show has always been meant to go, especially with the emphasis on the Vees in the season finale, and how two of them have specifically personal grudges against two of the prominent cast. Charlie's fallen under the radar because no one took her seriously, but now they have reason to- and the Vees have been emboldened by her victory because it shows that Heaven's power isn't absolute. While Adam and Lute are threats to the concept of Charlie's project, and defied by showing it can succeed, the Vees are a threat to the project actually being able to succeed, as their stock in trade is literally enslaving people through their vices. And yeah, it's always a fun theme that bad people can be and are empowered by their own passions, virtues and teamwork too.
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Apr 19, 2024 10:58
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Larryb posted:We know Lute is still firmly in Adam’s camp at least which is why she’s turning to Lilith to deal with Charlie (something else I’m strongly looking forward to learning more about) If anything, Lute feels like a much more hardline ideologue than Adam himself (who was just a hedonistic sadist). She loving hates demons in a way that feels suspiciously personal.
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Apr 19, 2024 12:11
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Ghost Leviathan posted:That pretty much feels like exactly where the show has always been meant to go, especially with the emphasis on the Vees in the season finale, and how two of them have specifically personal grudges against two of the prominent cast. Charlie's fallen under the radar because no one took her seriously, but now they have reason to- and the Vees have been emboldened by her victory because it shows that Heaven's power isn't absolute. While Adam and Lute are threats to the concept of Charlie's project, and defied by showing it can succeed, the Vees are a threat to the project actually being able to succeed, as their stock in trade is literally enslaving people through their vices. It also feels to me like the next phase of Charlie's journey is that she'll be brought down a peg by the simple fact that there are people out there who don't want to be saved; I could see it that she would be shocked that the Vees are ramping up their efforts despite her proving that it's possible for souls to be redeemed and go to Heaven.
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Apr 19, 2024 12:36
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Darth Walrus posted:If anything, Lute feels like a much more hardline ideologue than Adam himself (who was just a hedonistic sadist). She loving hates demons in a way that feels suspiciously personal. For absolutely no reason I always felt like she was a nun in life. The rabid puritanism, the cruelty, the violence.
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Apr 19, 2024 15:19
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Megillah Gorilla posted:For absolutely no reason I always felt like she was a nun in life. The rabid puritanism, the cruelty, the violence. Worse yet, a Magdalene nun, or one who lived during the Inquisition.
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Apr 19, 2024 15:40
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Adrianics posted:It also feels to me like the next phase of Charlie's journey is that she'll be brought down a peg by the simple fact that there are people out there who don't want to be saved; I could see it that she would be shocked that the Vees are ramping up their efforts despite her proving that it's possible for souls to be redeemed and go to Heaven. I think even Charlie understands that; the Vees likely present a threat in that they don't want other sinners to be saved, because it ruins their whole deal, it reduces their power. Angel Dust is the key here, as being Val's big earner and favourite toy, and one of the Hotel's first clients even if he was just in it for free room and board. Even perhaps some of the Overlords could be said to be making the best of a bad situation and turning out to be good at it, but the Vees are revelling in it, and relying on a captive audience desperate for escapism and relief- that all starts falling apart when their audience can, well, escape.
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Apr 19, 2024 18:23
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We are bound to learn more about Vox and Alastors beef with each other. We know Vox and Alastor fought one another. Might have been after Vox invited Alastor to join them and he refused. Alastor almost beat him but didn’t, based on Alastors line about Vox being nothing without his support (the other two) guessing they joined in when Vox needed it. With the Vee’s controlling the media from news to social they definitely can make life hell for Charlie and crew. We've all become painfully aware of how media and social media manipulation can be used. Alastor being with them is enough of a reason for Vox to fight. Angel Dust being Valentino's own reason. Either to regain control or fear that he might actually some how redeem and escape. For those wanting more Amazing Digital Circus, next episode is out May 3rd.
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Apr 19, 2024 23:48
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I think even Charlie understands that; the Vees likely present a threat in that they don't want other sinners to be saved, because it ruins their whole deal, it reduces their power. Angel Dust is the key here, as being Val's big earner and favourite toy, and one of the Hotel's first clients even if he was just in it for free room and board. Even perhaps some of the Overlords could be said to be making the best of a bad situation and turning out to be good at it, but the Vees are revelling in it, and relying on a captive audience desperate for escapism and relief- that all starts falling apart when their audience can, well, escape. If I'm the Vees, the potential "Glasnost" with Heaven potentially opens up a new market for their products.
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Apr 20, 2024 01:48
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The Last Call posted:We are bound to learn more about Vox and Alastors beef with each other. I wonder if it's as simple as Alastor thinks preying on the weak is crass and undignified while, for the Vees, it's literally what they do. In one of the comics someone linked earlier, there was a scene of Alastor 'helping' a little sheep sinner who was about to be killed and cut into pieces by a butcher.
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Apr 20, 2024 03:39
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We can't count out Velvet, either! Sure, she doesn't have the direct grudge of Vox-Alastor and Valentino-Angel, but consider that we've had a lot of focus on Carmilla too. The same Carmilla that Velvet's "I have beef with you song" was against, and who got three songs despite not being in the main principal cast, and who in a lot of ways is brought up as a mirror and mentor for Vaggie. If we need to establish the Vees as a threat and shake up the power dynamics down in Hell, I can see Velvet taking out Carmilla. And just like that, the third of our three main non-Charlie characters gets her personal Vee rivalry.
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Apr 20, 2024 04:50
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Megillah Gorilla posted:I wonder if it's as simple as Alastor thinks preying on the weak is crass and undignified while, for the Vees, it's literally what they do. I've mentioned before I get almost Venture Bros vibes from Alastor at times, where he has his own attitude and code of behaviour orthogonal to regular morality. He clearly enjoys antagonizing the powerful and sees no sport in going after the helpless unprovoked. His aiding Charlie seems to be a kind of game as well, providing amusement with her efforts, not to mention being probably one of the only new things he's seen in Hell for decades, and he challenges her to uphold her morality and will while dangling leverage that could compromise her independence and morals. And getting to passive aggressively antagonise Lucifer himself is a nice bonus.
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Apr 20, 2024 08:07
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The Bee posted:We can't count out Velvet, either! Sure, she doesn't have the direct grudge of Vox-Alastor and Valentino-Angel, but consider that we've had a lot of focus on Carmilla too. The same Carmilla that Velvet's "I have beef with you song" was against, and who got three songs despite not being in the main principal cast, and who in a lot of ways is brought up as a mirror and mentor for Vaggie. Carmilla does have serious dead-woman-walking vibes, and having someone less friendly and moral become Hell's chief supplier of weaponry (particularly angelic weaponry) would be a really big deal.
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Apr 20, 2024 13:40
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The Bee posted:We can't count out Velvet, either! Sure, she doesn't have the direct grudge of Vox-Alastor and Valentino-Angel, but consider that we've had a lot of focus on Carmilla too. The same Carmilla that Velvet's "I have beef with you song" was against, and who got three songs despite not being in the main principal cast, and who in a lot of ways is brought up as a mirror and mentor for Vaggie. Velvet could go after Carmilla, or she could wait and see how Vox and Val's little stunts go first, and if they do horribly take over the entire group with them under her thumb. After that, who knows where to aim next. Overlords not liking one another and butting heads comes off as a natural existing repeating event to me. You got some who are civil to one another, but it's like mob bosses with turf, you are always going to be eyeing what the other has and wanting it. When you believe things are in your favor, you try to knock them off. Eventually they all fall at some point. Most are not that old, Zestial being the sole expection from what we know.
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Apr 20, 2024 21:09
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Madurai posted:Ben Garrison's from The Onion. No no no, Kelly is from The Onion, Garrison is a dead dude who used to like putting lots of cum, dicks, and tits into political cartoons; Kelly satirizes Garrison and people who came before Garrison
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Apr 21, 2024 01:50
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The Last Call posted:Velvet could go after Carmilla, or she could wait and see how Vox and Val's little stunts go first, and if they do horribly take over the entire group with them under her thumb. I'm pretty sure that Alastor alone was responsible for a lot of generational turnover given how his history is described. And they still like him more than the Vees, lol.
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Apr 21, 2024 02:09
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The Last Call posted:Velvet could go after Carmilla, or she could wait and see how Vox and Val's little stunts go first, and if they do horribly take over the entire group with them under her thumb. You're not wrong at all. But it stands out that Vox and Valentino's feuds are with two primary viewpoint characters, while Velvet's is with an important secondary character. Especially when that important secondary character is tied to the last of our non-Charlie main cast. It feels like the last missing needed to make the Vees plot personal for all of them.
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Apr 21, 2024 06:01
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And I also still think Alastor has a liking for Charlie because she actually has a lot of traits that he respects. She's a lot like him aesthetically for one, being a snappy dresser and almost constantly smiling, which he seems to definitely see as an expression of power- that she'd say it's for different reasons than him doesn't invalidate his own reasoning. Both of them have an interest in people, in understanding them and changing them, which is gonna be necessary for Charlie's goals and probably much harder than even corrupting or controlling someone. It might even be the classic game of can-you-redeem-me-before-I-corrupt-you between them. He's a bit like the Joker in a few ways, if he'd had his own way long enough it'd gotten boring and he decided to mix it up. That said, there's also the implications he might be doing what he does because someone else is pulling the strings, but he does seem to be at least a bit actively interested in it nonetheless.
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Apr 21, 2024 07:23
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I never once believed that Alastor actually cared about Charlie. She’s a means to an end, whatever it is Alastor wants and ultimately aiming for beyond freedom. Power and influence make sense. Him being the power behind the throne for example. Some fans believe the deal he cut will have him asking for her throne but that’s far too out in the open and makes him a very big target. Manipulating Charlie and getting her to do things while she’s on the throne on the other hand? That sounds like Alastor. It caters to his smug ego thinking he's getting one over everyone else. He's always struck me as the type to be good to someone and use them until they are useful no more. At that point, some plans require a sacrifice. Once that is done, Alastor moves on not giving two shits or having a further thought to the person unless brought up in a conversation. Why waste the time when he has more deals to make. They are mere stepping stones, pawns to be sacrificed. Nothing more than pitiful wretches. His biggest problem is his ego. He believes he can do and carry out much more than he actually can, he didn’t defeat Vox, sure the other two Vee's likely prevented that but he should have planned for them. Or he might have underestimated them. After which he was gone for seven years, was he on deaths door and needed to make a deal with a greater power? Was he punished and held away for his failure. Who can say. Alastors over confidence came close to his demise when he went up against Adam. He didn't use any angel weapons. He thought he could over power Adam. That was a bad judgement call and error on his part and he nearly paid for it with his life. Some believe his statement about wanting his wings unclipped means he has more hidden power and I don't believe to be the case. Yes, he is limited, but not in power, but in what actions he's allowed to do. If he had freedom, he has so many options and choices available to him. Since he's not he has to operate while on someone elses leash and so his options and choices are far fewer. Where Velvette is concerned, depending on what happens with Vox and Val I could see her as said taking over the group as said up above. This opens up much more possibilities for her and give her someone to play off in the future. Vox and Val fall so Velvette can rise. This puts her in more direct conflict with characters like Carmine who she hates. The Last Call fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Apr 21, 2024 |
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Apr 21, 2024 20:25
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Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if Alastor turns out to be the “final boss” of the series so to speak. He flat out said he’s got plans of his own once he finally gets out of his contract and it’s also pretty clear he plans to use his bargain with Charlie to get to that point Off the subject, still no further update on HB’s return I assume? Larryb fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Apr 21, 2024 |
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Apr 21, 2024 20:30
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Despite the outcry from the fandom, I agree that Alastor is likely to be the final threat to overcome. Likely after the gang believe they have beaten the true evil behind everything only for Alastor to step up and go "nuh huh" and make one last power grab. Nothing new on HB yet. We should see something between now and the 28th I'm guessing with the announcement of the next episode being hopefully next month.
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Apr 21, 2024 20:42
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Alastor definitely started to care about Charlie and the hotel as the season went on, that's what that scene between him and Nifty is showing. And his part of the final song is basically him going "I almost died for these people as if I actually cared about them (which he started to a little bit) I need to remember my priorities". I also agree about Alastor being the final boss of the show, and I'm excited for when we finally get to see him with his chains off
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Apr 22, 2024 00:08
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Macaluso posted:Alastor definitely started to care about Charlie and the hotel as the season went on, that's what that scene between him and Nifty is showing. And his part of the final song is basically him going "I almost died for these people as if I actually cared about them (which he started to a little bit) I need to remember my priorities". Personally I think it's inspired to have the final big bad be someone who was literally at your side all along, but he's never lied about what he is. Alastor is naturally charismatic and charming and a lot of the fandom makes excuses for him because of it. But at the end of the day the dude does not have positive intentions. He never has from the start and that's what makes it really work.
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Apr 22, 2024 01:53
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I mean, the guy was literally a serial killer in life and doesn’t have a single regret as far as we can tell apart from binding his soul to the service of another (though at the same time he still has nuance to him) It’s not official and it was made during the pilot era but this song still feels pretty on point in regards to the character: https://youtube.com/watch?v=juJkNKodgdE Larryb fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Apr 22, 2024 |
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Apr 22, 2024 02:05
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Alastor is absolutely final boss material and I don't think anyone is going to be that shocked when he is. A lot like Sans.Macaluso posted:Alastor definitely started to care about Charlie and the hotel as the season went on, that's what that scene between him and Nifty is showing. And his part of the final song is basically him going "I almost died for these people as if I actually cared about them (which he started to a little bit) I need to remember my priorities". Yeah, that's the trick, he doesn't strike me as a totally cold and unsentimental killer, it's far more interesting to have characters who are messy and have multiple conflicting motivations. It's also probably what makes him effective, he thinks about things from far more angles than others like the Vees, who do seem to be genuinely shallow sociopaths who mostly function by having each other as a brain trust. More saying I think Alastor's relationship spectrum includes 'favourite enemy', a category that very likely includes Vox, probably Lucifer, and maybe Charlie in the long term. While he likes to exercise and demonstrate power over people, including very publicly loving up the most powerful Overlords, he definitely seems the type to enjoy the energy that antagonism gives him.
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Apr 22, 2024 03:17
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People will absolutely be shocked. He had Husk on a chain, threatened to tear apart his soul leaving the poor guy shaking in fear. People watched that and it was if as the whole scene didn’t even register with them. In the end they were still cheering for Alastor and thinking he was helping Charlie. Even when Alastor would only give her the information with a deal, they still said he was helping her because he was her friend. That’s not how friendship works. People love Alastor, they think he’s cool. Some people want to be like him. Some want to date him. Others want to ship him with what appears to be almost anyone and everyone. They got a blind spot when it comes to him. They like him being a bad boy but they don’t seem to realize he’s bad. We get told over and over again what he’s done. People think it’s cool. Him being the final enemy of the hotel crew will stun people and they’ll act like it’s a total shock and betrayal of the character when in reality, it’s been his entire character from day one. Hell it’s been his character before Hazbin Hotel itself was even a concept and he was a demon deer in Viv's previous workings that had him.
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Apr 22, 2024 04:13
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I know Ms. Medrano has already said we won't see God in the show, but I'd like Charlie (and probably Emily) to Have A Word WIth The Manager before it's over.
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Apr 22, 2024 04:19
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Madurai posted:I know Ms. Medrano has already said we won't see God in the show, but I'd like Charlie (and probably Emily) to Have A Word WIth The Manager before it's over. Fingers crossed God is the most majestic drat horse we've ever seen.
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Apr 22, 2024 05:45
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If God is a horse, he and Blitz might have a past. Neat.
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Apr 23, 2024 03:09
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Flopsy posted:Fingers crossed God is the most majestic drat horse we've ever seen. If God doesn't exist, then why is she a horse?
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Apr 23, 2024 03:10
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Actually funny thing on Alastor is the position he's in at the end of the season finale. Everyone else gets their moments to be cool, their big action sequence facing impossible odds, and at least one who dies goes out like a badass- and is rewarded appropriately. A united stand of unlikely allies against a grand villain, and a heroic intervention from someone who'd neglected his daughter but finally puts his money where his mouth is, defending his family and his kingdom. Alastor though, he took on Adam alone, full of arrogance and spite to match his, and ate poo poo. He tried to pull the skill vs power thing as well as the lone wolf, only to find that Adam both has power to spare and is actually smart enough to adapt against a cunning foe, and send scrambling with his tail between his legs without even being acknowledged. He ends up an afterthought in the aftermath, overshadowed by those he has in his bondage or debt and holds in bemused contempt. Even if Adam reforms in Hell, he'll probably remember Alastor if at all as just another sinner who put up slightly more of a fight than most. Now it's the audience who has reason to hold him in bemused contempt, that for all his reputation and pretension when the poo poo hits the fan Alastor couldn't back it up against anything outside his comfort zone, and if anyone saw what happened (did the Vees?) then his reputation would be severely damaged- even Charlie held her ground, rightly terrified and out of her element as she was. And I don't think that's going to be the last time this kind of thing happens to him.
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Apr 23, 2024 07:12
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Pretty sure the Vees saw the whole thing. Weren't Valentino and Vox having a triumph-makeout when Alastor ate poo poo? Actually, a Stayed Gone reprise where Alastor's scrambling to shut down Vox's proof of his cowardice ans weakness would be pretty great. The Bee fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Apr 23, 2024 |
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Apr 23, 2024 15:10
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Oh Vox is absolutely going to give Alastor poo poo for this, curious to see how the latter is going to save face honestly since the entire thing was televised for all of Hell to see
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Apr 23, 2024 16:18
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Super behind on this thread, but I'm thinking of updating the thread title and am willing to take suggestions
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Apr 23, 2024 18:13
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There's your chance folks. Make it a good suggestion. Vox definitely saw and recorded the fight. I expect him to be broadcasting Alastor's humiliating defeat on the regular to needle the man in red.
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Apr 23, 2024 18:15
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The Last Call posted:There's your chance folks. Hit with the biggest "this you?"
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Apr 23, 2024 18:35
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Let's try basics first: Hellaverse Megathread: Inside every demon there's a rainbow
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Apr 23, 2024 18:47
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Immediately after hitting send I also thought of Hell Is Forever lol
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Apr 23, 2024 19:42
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Happy Landfill posted:Immediately after hitting send I also thought of Hell Is Forever lol What are we even talking about?! [Helluva Boss/Hazbin Hotel Megathread] Propaganda
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