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nemesis_hub posted:Lame! I haven't seen Spider-verse yet, but I *want* a bombastic ending that leaves you hanging going "wtf? they can't end it here!". The Matrix Reloaded exists.
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Jul 13, 2023 02:33
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nemesis_hub posted:Lame! I haven't seen Spider-verse yet, but I *want* a bombastic ending that leaves you hanging going "wtf? they can't end it here!". Yeah, that's Spider-Verse.
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Jul 13, 2023 02:35
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live with fruit posted:The Matrix Reloaded exists. Yeah, although I have decidedly mixed feelings on Matrix 2 and 3, I do love the way Reloaded ends.
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Jul 13, 2023 02:56
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LionArcher posted:Just saw this in a theater. My buddy loved it except for the "acting" in those tight shots you're describing. That was because this was shot in the peak of covid, and they weren't in the room. Tom is actually a great enough actor that he's the only one this doesn't seem to effect, everyone else clearly struggled with that aspect of it. Did you read this somewhere or is this just a guess? Because I guess that's a plausible explanation but also feels extremely lazy for a movie they spent $800mil making (total for both parts).
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Jul 13, 2023 03:57
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I just assumed it was a stylistic choice.
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Jul 13, 2023 04:14
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Sirotan posted:Did you read this somewhere or is this just a guess? Because I guess that's a plausible explanation but also feels extremely lazy for a movie they spent $800mil making (total for both parts). Production had to shut down multiple times because of Covid. During the pandemic, it was one the movies where news about that seemed to constantly be happening. I have a feeling Atwell was able to film for Multiverse of Madness because this movie was on one of its pauses. They somehow were filming around the same time, even though they came out a year apart. MoM had its own Covid delays as well. Teek fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Jul 13, 2023 |
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Jul 13, 2023 04:47
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This was fine. The last three have been so solid that my expectations were probably too high. Mostly same ups and downs as everyone else:
My ranking is probably Fallout and Ghost Protocol tied for first. Fallout's an easy choice, while Ghost Protocol is so cheerful & energetic that it works for me every time Rogue Nation <a modest gap> this one followed closely by the first one <a big chunk of space> II and III, neither of which I found very good. nemesis_hub posted:Lame! I haven't seen Spider-verse yet, but I *want* a bombastic ending that leaves you hanging going "wtf? they can't end it here!".
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Jul 13, 2023 07:21
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Mixed bag for me. I was entertained and it had some great scenes, but none of the scenes made me go "whoa daaaamn that was awesome" in the way 6 managed, and I had some issues with other things. Complaints first, praise later. Exposition Others have already mentioned it, but these were some of the worst talky scenes in recent memory. My wife called it "Huey-Dewey-Louie-style". Especially egregious with the agents early on, but also later with Ethan's team, everybody basically knows everything and they just restate the information to each other, finishing each others' sentences, it's comical. Also, the plot is extremely simple imo but the fact that they keep repeating elements of it, just rephrased, makes it seem much more complicated than it is, and for the worse. It creates artificial confusion (as in, they try to obfuscate elements) that's not needed when they could just...not have the characters state things that the audience can infer, and actual confusion (as in, the audience goes 'wait what') that just hurts comprehension. Covid filming is a cogent explanation but during the movie it seemed to me like the screenwriter/director thought they had finally figured out how to do a good exposition scene and That's Not It Tone People itt praised the Rome car chase but honestly? It reminded me of the worst parts of the worst Bond movies, where they put an overlong slapstick scene into what's generally a more grounded and grittier movie. That can work - the obvious comparison is the yellow Citroen in For Your Eyes Only, and I think that scene handles "okay lol what a tiny car...wait that's an actual issue for them...okay but at least it's tiny...oh but the chasing cars are so much heavier and faster!!!" much better. In this movie, it's pure comedy start to finish, bookended by super high tension scenes in the airport and the whole nighttime chase culminating in an important and poignant character death. It stuck out terribly for me and despite some good action parts, and Paris (Pom Klementieff's character) having the time of her life, I honestly think the movie would be better, tighter and more consistent were it cut entirely. Missing scenes I don't think they actually filmed and then cut these, but three times during the movie I thought "wait...did they forget something here?" - Ethan is running over the airport roof. Clearly he wants to somehow get on a plane to Rome after the glass door closed in front of him, getting him to his destination and away from the CIA. How will he get into a plane from the outside?! [cut] oh. I guess he...did it. - during the nighttime chase, Benji jumps up and runs away. Luther: "where are you going?" Benji: "I'm trying to find Ethan!" and then, at the very end of the scene, a boat comes to pick up Ethan and Grace from the bridge. It's implied that this is Benji, but...not even a second of him working towards that goal, getting a boat, somehow figuring out where his allies are? - on the runaway train, Grace is climbing into the locomotive. Next time we see her, she's waiting there for Ethan going "welp I couldn't stop it". No room in the movie to show her despair at the broken controls? No shock at her discovering the hanged body? Did she take that guy down off-screen and gently lay him to rest, by the way? Was half expecting Ethan to get bonk-bonked by swinging legs in that scene Too many cooks The CIA chasing Ethan as he chased the buyer at the airport was great. Them having to be in every scene afterwards like "oh hey we're also here! Mildly complicating things, or not at all (they didn't do poo poo during the party)!" was weird and unnecessary to me. Just adding extra cuts to ultimately irrelevant people, ruining the action's flow, when that time could have been spent on showing more of the team doing things. However, there was also great stuff. Unordered this time: Tension The opening was superb. Ethan playing cat and mouse with the CIA, Grace AND Gabriel at the airport was amazing. The train escape ruled. Nighttime chase also excellent for that. Generally felt like something really bad could happen at any point (it did for the Russians, and at the end of the nighttime scene). Great cinema. Story I generally think this plot has a lot of potential. The superpowers vying for control of the AI vs the AI trying to become uncontrollable vs Ethan trying to destroy it set up clear factions and they played well against each other. The White Widow almost going along with Ethan but in the end making a selfish choice was handled very well and mirrored basically what all the governments are trying to do. CIA boss trying to make a deal was cool and the actor did an excellent job of selling his plan and smarminess. What was not great but I hope they do much more with in the second one was the whole "AI controls everything and can be in every device" aspect. They quickly switch to analogue but it basically works the same as before (the monitor wall, the old satellite somehow still giving clear enough pictures, the headpieces with no quality loss), I was really hoping for a lot of "ah gently caress we relied a lot on this but now we have to improvise" scenes but nope, Benji still trusts a self-driving car and uses super!GoogleMaps to plot a route for Ethan to intercept the train. I think it would have been way better if the AI got into the map program, and Ethan ending up on the mountain was simply due to it obfuscating the terrain height. Instead of Benji going "oh lol I knew you were going up there but it was the best I could do under this ~heavy pressure~". Also, the intelligence agency catches on to the threat immediately, but what about all the Italian cops, could they not be subtly manipulated at every turn? Could the AI not switch traffic lights around to make Paris' chase of a small car with a big car easier? There was a lot of wasted potential here, and I dearly hope they do stuff like that in the second movie. Action I liked the super narrow hallway fight (my wife and some goons didn't, I know). Cool setting, and I liked how they filmed it against the light. Yeah, somewhat hard to parse but it would be for the characters as well, so it made sense to me. Train stuff ruled. Some of the car chase, though see above re: tone complaints (also I was distracted by Grace stealing the carabinieri's only BMW in the country, then Ethan immediately stealing another BMW lol). Every Tom Cruise Running ruled as usual. Desert was fine, not amazing but solid. Characters Paris ruled, great addition. She had so much fun doing her thing lol. Gabriel was...okay...to me, could be better, could be a lot worse. Spoiled by the last movie, I guess. Grace was great, she had a lot of fun at the start and slowly realized in just how much poo poo she was in, very well done. White Widow was a joy to watch as well, and her actress sold the Grace-pretending-to-be-her scene. Excited for part 2! Also picked up a poster of the best character:  (and yes, I watched it on the 12th...)
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Jul 13, 2023 10:07
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My gripe with the alleyway fight is that nobody chooses a long metal bar to fight in a very narrow space, she wouldn't be able to swing it worth a drat and no way a mercenary like her doesn't have a knife on her. Just annoyed me every time I saw a swipe with the bar that would have had zero momentum behind it.
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Jul 13, 2023 10:21
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So this whole movie was just a simulation the AI was running, Roko’s Basilisk-style to see what Ethan would do, right?
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Jul 13, 2023 11:04
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Sorry, the Rome car chase ruled. Like every MI film since Ghost Protocol has had moments of ridiculousness during some action scenes, and it's to show how common it is that Ethan is still just a human, poo poo never goes as planned, but he manages by the skin of his teeth. It was also to show that Grace wasn't some super spy, unlike all the other characters.
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Jul 13, 2023 16:03
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Benji having made The Choice implies that every single person who worked for IMF when it was a big agency run by Laurence Fishburne made The Choice and some, like Benji, got stuck behind a keyboard in a dark room. Unless he's talking about not leaving after the Austrian chancellor was assassinated.
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Jul 13, 2023 17:25
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"The Choice" was just one of a number of unnecessary ret-cons. For example, the idea that none of the American intelligence networks even know how to contact the IMF beyond just leaving a message, as if previous movies didn't explicitly show the IMF having a director and even having its staff appear in front of a senate committee hearing. As if the CIA through Angela Basset and Alec Baldwin hadn't previously been all up in the IMF's business for multiple movies. I mean, apparently Kittridge doesn't know how to contact IMF, but is also the person who decides on recruitment for the IMF... Another example, that Ethan Hunt and Sicario had history together and that it was the reason Hunt was in the IMF at all. That Sicario killing some woman was a major part of Hunts past that just never seemed to matter before, not even in Mission Impossible 1 when a different woman got killed in very similar circumstances.
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Jul 13, 2023 18:03
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We never learn enough about the antagonist's history with Hunt for it even have any weight. Why put that connection in and do nothing with it? Did the movie ever state why the antagonist was working with the AI? So much of the nonaction parts of this movie are empty and perfunctory. I know the plots are a distant second behind the action on actually mattering in these movies, but give me something to latch onto in the talky bits. Don't just say plot and character motivations at each other. fishing with the fam fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Jul 13, 2023 |
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Jul 13, 2023 18:14
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fishing with the fam posted:We never learn enough about the antagonists history with Hunt for it even have any weight. Why put that connection in and do nothing it? I'd be surprised if they don't return to that for part 2 in connection with Ethan facing off against Gabriel again, not that that really excuses how weightless it is in this movie. I got the impression Gabriel was working for the AI because it empowered him to inflict suffering with a precision he couldn't have dreamed of before.
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Jul 13, 2023 18:45
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Sir Kodiak posted:I got the impression Gabriel was working for the AI because it empowered him to inflict suffering with a precision he couldn't have dreamed of before. quote:"One of these two ladies will die...and you're gonna watch it happen mwah-ah-ahhhh..." Me: "yeah, because you see Ethan it turns out the Entity is a huge rear end in a top hat" I guess they justified it later with the whole notion that the AI was baiting him for reasons of its own, but it was still a pretty big clunker for me. It's not great that we were like approaching halfway through the movie and I was still trying to figure out whether Gabriel was actually a regular person, or we were pivoting hard into SF territory by making him some sort of cyborg/android technological breakthrough. I know that makes zero sense but the whole bit with him literally disappearing and reappearing before our eyes on the airport security tape was confusing. There are two ways to look at this 1) yo rivetz just how how dumb do you have to be to actually question whether an obvious human is actually a real person 2) yo movie just how utterly bland a performance does this guy have to give for me to actually wonder if he's some kind of advanced robot I did thoroughly enjoy the movie so a couple more positives:
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Jul 14, 2023 01:17
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I definitely liked most of this movie but one thing I wish it did was gaslight us the audience. When Ethan says "We can't trust anything except up close conversations like these" I was kinda hoping we'd get at least one full scene that would turn out to be fake later. Instead the film tipped off the audience every time Skynet hacked cameras and phone lines I guess "Mindfuck" is a bit much to ask from a movie like this but don't introduce the rules of the game and not play them
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Jul 14, 2023 02:18
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Part 2 opening up with Ethan Hunt on his way to the arctic circle: "Metal Gear?"
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Jul 14, 2023 03:28
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How does the IMF know when the agents don’t accept a mission? Is it like, “dang, that nuclear bomb went off after all he must’ve said no”
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Jul 14, 2023 03:34
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dpkg chopra posted:How does the IMF know when the agents don’t accept a mission? I've been rewatching all the MI movies this week (in random order) and just finished 3 and the very end scene is Lawrence Fishburne as director of the IMF telling Ethan Hunt that the White House called and has a sweet job posting for him if he wants to take it. Also a significant portion of the movie takes place in an IMF underground facility in Virginia where they're having meetings and briefings and regular day to day operations bullshit. They're just another three letter intelligence agency right up until 7 where they've now become so cloak and dagger even their own leadership lacks insight into their own inner workings? It's really stupid. Also watching 3 again I feel like I've been a bit unfair to it in the past, it's really very good. Some of the best acting from Cruise of the whole series imho. However I will never ever agree with the decision to have it start in media res.
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Jul 14, 2023 03:45
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Sirotan posted:I've been rewatching all the MI movies this week (in random order) and just finished 3 and the very end scene is Lawrence Fishburne as director of the IMF telling Ethan Hunt that the White House called and has a sweet job posting for him if he wants to take it. Also a significant portion of the movie takes place in an IMF underground facility in Virginia where they're having meetings and briefings and regular day to day operations bullshit. They're just another three letter intelligence agency right up until 7 where they've now become so cloak and dagger even their own leadership lacks insight into their own inner workings? It's really stupid. To be fair, during the span of the series, the IMF disbanded and reformed like 8 times.
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Jul 14, 2023 07:31
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It really annoyed me that nobody, including attention to detail freaks like Ethan Hunt, noticed that Grace as Alanna had different colored eyes. Not even her own loving brother noticed! Fun action, but the villains were weak and the team aspect of it more or less disappeared after the airport scene.
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Jul 14, 2023 07:55
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rivetz posted:
This was loving hilarious because it ends with this slow dolly around Cruise to reveal the rampiest looking rock formation in the world out of focus behind him Just gloriously stupid
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Jul 14, 2023 09:00
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Count me in as an enjoyer and all that, but absolutely fuming about Ilsa getting offed the way she did. That was one of the great things about her character when she first appeared! Like; "Oh no, she's up against a big fella who's going to kill the poo poo out of her! When's the HERO going to show up an-Oh, she absolutely murdered the guy, awesome." It's not like killing her off doesn't have impact, but you can see it coming a mile off thanks to the dumb Wrath of Khan-esque fakeout at the start. On the other hand, glad they found a pulse on Paris, she was a fun character. Be great if they brought her back. As for the rest of it, action sequences, great. Basically got the vehicle hopping car chase I came for, so I'm not too pissed. I like that the train sequence got even sweatier and more hectic after the train was halted.
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Jul 14, 2023 11:29
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Sirotan posted:Did you read this somewhere or is this just a guess? Because I guess that's a plausible explanation but also feels extremely lazy for a movie they spent $800mil making (total for both parts). There are a couple of recordings of Cruise going ballistic on some production crew who violated COVID restrictions that must've been taken while this movie was filming. Dude seemed pretty wound up about the implications of having to disrupt filming any more than absolutely necessary, given the delays that already occurred. Mat Cauthon fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Jul 14, 2023 |
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Jul 14, 2023 12:46
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This didn't have a non-action scene as good as the Wolf Blitzer fakeout in Fallout but the huge car chase and the skydiving and train sequence were both great and I laughed more than most Mission Impossible movies so it was pretty much up there with Fallout and 1 as my favorite. Rewriting Ethan and the IMF's backstory was really weird though!
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Jul 14, 2023 14:02
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MassRafTer posted:This didn't have a non-action scene as good as the Wolf Blitzer fakeout in Fallout but the huge car chase and the skydiving and train sequence were both great and I laughed more than most Mission Impossible movies so it was pretty much up there with Fallout and 1 as my favorite. Also the IMF makes no sense so I was just like yeah yeah whatever whenever they discussed it. Why did they even do that? I'm with you there, that's weird
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Jul 14, 2023 14:30
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This was a fun 2.5 hours but I'm already sooooo tired of AI villains in media properties.
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Jul 14, 2023 14:50
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Simply Simon posted:Gotta be honest: I thought the flashbacks were things that happened in MI1 which I'd just completely forgotten, so I looked up Gabriel's actor on IMDB and was surprised that nope, they didn't actually bring him back for this I went with a friend who had only watched MI:2 before. After about 45 minutes I leaned over to him and said "So other than the CIA Director and Ethan's team nothing so far has any connection to a previous Mission Impossible movie." He still really liked it but thought it was funny to see all of this stuff and think "oh ok this is just from the other movies" and it not be. It was genuinely really weird to be seven movies into a franchise and get all of this backstory and not have it relate to any of the previous movies. If you wanted to change the nature of the IMF you could do that pretty easily since it gets disavowed in every single movie too, but they did it in a way that just contradicted several previous films. You take out three minutes of exposition in one scene early in the movie that feels very off and this is my favorite entry in the franchise. As it is it's just kind of weird they did that, but also feels weird to even care after a movie that had me feeling all jacked up on the ride home.
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Jul 14, 2023 15:34
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mcmagic posted:This was a fun 2.5 hours but I'm already sooooo tired of AI villains in media properties. An AI villain that uses its internet access to "change truth" and knows everything is a good premise for a more grounded, paranoid spy thriller. That approach requires investment in characters actually talking to each other, which this movie could not care less about. It all really just doesn't fit the vibe of a big bombastic action movie, which really needs a more direct and tangible threat. Just have the AI try to crash the world's electrical grid or give it a nuke or something. Edit: And I'm still pissy that they did Ilsa dirty like that. It bugs me that the movie straight up tells us that the AI wants to kill someone Hunt cares about to emotionally compromise him, but for some reason it must be a woman. Pegg and Rhames are off the table for this purpose for some reason?? Ving Rhames is barely interested in leaving his chair in these movies! Edit 2: It might shock you to know that italics and spoilers are not the same tag. fishing with the fam fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Jul 14, 2023 |
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Jul 14, 2023 16:36
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The weird IMF stuff must be setup for the second film when the AI has taken everything over and they just have to leave dead drops and hope Ethan find it and can save the day, because every other method is compromised.
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Jul 14, 2023 16:41
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Tom Cruise has the funniest "plutonic friends who hold hands and stare into each others' eyes longingly" vibe with every women in this franchise.
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Jul 14, 2023 16:49
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I respect that because at the very least it avoids the feeling that he just casts hot actresses in these so he can make out with them. He has control and ownership of the franchise so as the lead actor its a pretty respectful move especially considering the actresses are much much younger than him.
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Jul 14, 2023 17:20
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I'm still pissed that Illsa went down because she was so awesome in 5 and 6 and then looked so cool with the eye patch and sniper gun. So cool and Rebecca Ferguson is so cool and I liked her in the silo Still drat mad...I'll still go and pay to watch part 2 
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Jul 14, 2023 20:18
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Loved it. Not quite as good as Fallout but this was everything I love and expect from an MI film. I will agree the retcon of the IMF being super shadowy was really dumb and contradicts so much in the past 3 movies. It makes NO sense that the Director of National Intelligence wouldn't know what the IMF is. And yeah pretty bummed about Ilsa. I get her schedule was probably insane with Silo and Dune 2 but it really crushed me she didn't make it until the end.
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Jul 14, 2023 22:08
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I'm going to be honest, y'all, I couldn't tell you a single point of continuity across this franchise apart from Tom Cruise being in all of them, and Ving Rhames/ Simon Pegg now being in quite a few of them. The fact that the IMF seems to be thoroughly compromised or destroyed every single time doesn't really help. And it doesn't really matter to stop me enjoying them. This franchise has a pretty darn good track record for going on 30 years old.
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Jul 14, 2023 22:27
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The 60's series was incredibly good and better imo than any of the cruise efforts. Barbara Bain and Martin Landau especially. Edit: and of course Peter Graves.
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Jul 14, 2023 22:34
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Chieves posted:I'm going to be honest, y'all, I couldn't tell you a single point of continuity across this franchise apart from Tom Cruise being in all of them, and Ving Rhames/ Simon Pegg now being in quite a few of them. The biggest one is Michelle Monaghan as Ethan's wife (well, now-estranged wife), who appears in III, Ghost Protocol and Fallout.
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Jul 14, 2023 23:43
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Ving was in all of them, only one besides Cruise to do so. Alec, Hawkeye, and Solomon Lane are also in two features. Wrt Ilsa, I feel you guys but I;m pretty sure she isn't dead. Gabriel was making such a big deal about how he needed to follow the plan to achieve victory, and one of the prerequisites was for Her or Atwell to bite it. So if you're Hunt, the way to help insure that you win instead of the Bob Page is to make sure you're as off script as possible. If Gabriel thinks that she is dead, and the AI thinks she's dead than it gives her the opportunity to become a true wild card in the next film. And if we look at it from the story telling itself, Garbriel's adherence to his cyber god is actively working against him in the Paris situation; the scenario that he predicted comes to pass, but only because he didn't trust her. Ethan fully trusts his team, even when he maybe should not, so putting her out on her own towards the same goal but fully outside the systems surveillance or his own teams contact, operating by dead reckoning you could say, is within character for him. Also straight up, the only people Hunt has lost is his entire original team, Hunley, and Keri Russel. This is not the type of franchise that kills people off. I would not be surprised if the next movie has a holy poo poo moment where someone steps in to rescue Ethan, pulls off a mask and reveals herself to be Ilsa
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Jul 15, 2023 02:08
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Simply Simon posted:Gotta be honest: I thought the flashbacks were things that happened in MI1 which I'd just completely forgotten, so I looked up Gabriel's actor on IMDB and was surprised that nope, they didn't actually bring him back for this I thought that too for the longest time until they said when it happened.
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Jul 15, 2023 03:39
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