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Welcome to the 5th headphone thread! This thread is the hot new hangout to discuss headphones, earphones, and all manner of personal audio products. This thread is the old thread to discuss personal audio ear-hugging devices. 1.  Housekeeping: There are a few things that everyone should know before we launch into anything else. Word choice You may see a lot of discussions around headphones use words like "dark" and "shouty" and "warm" elsewhere on the internet. While these may seem a little intelligible, they're from an expert consensus lexicon that is very, VERY easy to misinterpret if you're not familiar with it; so instead avoid this where possible. Say what you mean, mean what you say. If you want more bass, or you're tired of having a hard time hearing vocals, say that! Because each person asking for help finding headphones could potentially help someone else with similar needs, let's try to keep this as easy to read and approach as possible. The former iterations of this thread saw countless posters telling the thread they wanted "balanced sound" but had no idea what that meant in practice (or didn't actually want that). Let's do better this time. Also, if you don't want to find yourself potentially getting mocked in the Audiophile thread, please remember that you're posting on a public forum in response to someone trying to help your understanding about something— you could be wrong! Don't white knight products, they're inanimate objects! Headphones are a tool Though there are those in the audio junkie community that are into the whole conspicuous consumption thing, headphones aren't an experience: they're a tool. Different headphones and earphones are built with different users in mind, so it's no surprise that some people will choose certain products over others for completely valid reasons. If you needed a chop saw, and you went to a tool forum and the posters there convinced you to get a belt sander instead: you'd be rightly pissed that you were misdirected right? Try to listen to other posters, and give relevant advice. At the end of the day, we're shooting to help each other after all— believe someone if they tell you they don't want something. Everyone's different Your own individual biology is enough to make or break different types of headphones, or even make different headphones sound awful (or good). That's because we all have different ear shapes, ear canal shapes, bone density, pinna gain, you name it! Some people can't wear AirPods. Others can. Some people can't stand a certain sound, others love it. There's no such thing as "perfect" for everyone, just what fits your needs and what doesn't. Don't feel bad if you like a different sound than what your friends like: it's normal! Additionally, fit is everything. If your headphones/earphones don't fit you (read: make a seal if they're intended to), you will notice issues like "missing" bass, lower sound quality, poor comfort, earbuds falling out all the time, or even poorly-functioning noise cancelation. If any of these describe your experience, chances are good that your audio product doesn't fit you. There's a few things you can do, but make peace with the possibility that AirPods aren't for you, for example. Measurements are your friend Now that the barrier to entry on measurements is so much lower than it used to be, you can find a bevy of measurements online to help you get context on how headphones actually sound— and not rely on weird descriptions from internet marketing folk. Remember, these primarily serve as a reference point and not gospel because your head isn't the measurement apparatus that these nerds are using. Instead, they either use a B&K 5128 (the new hotness dummy head), a GRAS 45CA (the ol' standby type 711), Head Acoustics HMS 2, or some other type 711-based measuring rig. Results from the newer heads (Crinacle, Headphones.com, SoundGuys, and RTINGS at some point in the future) will not be compatible/comparable with measurements taken on other measurement fixtures. Though they're quite technical-looking and a bit scary, using frequency response charts are the best way to compare how headphones sound to one another. Once you're comfortable reading these plots, you can do some sleuthing on your own about which headphones you'll like. Guide here. 2. Let's talk headphones! Here's what you should do before buying headphones. Find a retailer with a good return policy FIRST If you're spending a lot of money here, there's a good chance that you may find your first buy to have something you really don't like. It's normal to not be satisfied every so often. Check with your vendor before buying to make sure that you can swap out your purchase if you need to bail on your investment right away. Additionally, you should also look up what their policy on parts failure or repair look like just in case. Post here: What headphone should I buy? Recommendations from us goons are first and foremost our opinions on what best fits your needs. Like any other goon advice, you may know a little more about your needs that isn't getting communicated or understood by your fellow posters. It happens! In order to get the best conversation going about what you might be happy with, please post the following information: Budget - Tell us what you're willing to part with. It's extremely likely that goons will tell you to stretch your budget, however. Source - What will you be connecting these to? A smartphone? Turntable setup? What connection do you need? Intended use case - Are you using these at a computer only? Do you need isolation/ANC for your commute? Are you going to be mixing music with these? Tell us everything. Preferred Headphone features - Let us know specific products you’ve used in the past and what you’ve liked/disliked about those products. 1. What did you like about their sound? 2. What did you like about their fit? What did you hate about it? 3. Are there any must-have features you can think of? Voice assistant? Wireless? Touch controls? 4. What are you willing to live without? Types of headphones There are many types of headphones and earphones, typically referred to by the way they are worn by their users (or the technology used to create audio). In-ears This design is shared by wireless earphones, neckband earphones, IEMs, and AirPods Pro (not AirPods, those are some of the last of the dying "earbud" type). These will create a seal in your ear canal, usually with a silicone or memory foam tip that holds the bud in place. You might have a model with additional features to secure the buds to your ears, like a concha fin or ear hook. On-ears These headphones sit atop your outer ear, and often don't create a seal. While a poor choice as far as isolation is concerned, on-ears are a favorite of people who really hate heavy headphones. Over-ears These headphones are defined by the fact that they encircle your entire ear. By sealing around your ear, they are able to make use of much more space, and distribute their higher mass over a larger surface area. These use the largest diaphragms/elements, and are often regarded as Bone conduction For those that need to hear the world around them that don't want to have awkward interactions from blasting their Bluetooth speaker in public, bone conduction headphones are designed to send vibrations through your skull to your inner ear bones, and make you hear your music while bypassing your ear canal entirely. By leaving the ear canal unoccluded, you can still hear things going on around you. Neat! Sound quality is hit or miss, but being able to hear a car coming while you're on a bike is a pretty big check in the plus column. Open or Closed? In the world of high-end audio, you will notice that a lot of headphones are what's called "open back" headphones. These products do not seal the back part of the ear cups, in hopes that an unsealed rear chamber will allow better movement of the driver element at the expense of isolation. For keyboard warriors and sound quality chasers this is a good option, but don't take them outside— they're really not meant to be portable. 4. Myths and other bullshit Should I buy an amp? Do I need a DAC? No! I mean, probably not, anyway. When you poke around forums and enthusiast spaces, you'll see a lot of people using extra bits of equipment you don't understand. That's fine— remember when I said so much has changed? Well, one of those things is the chips required to recreate an analog signal from a digital file (a DAC) have gotten so good that the "cheap" ones are almost indistinguishable from the "perfect" ones... and consequently just about every computer and mobile device has a good enough chip to not be the source of audible errors. You only need a DAC if your setup is introducing noise, or it can't output the files you want to listen to. If you don't want to take my word for it, here's a fun, nerdy video about the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIQ9IXSUzuM If you need to troubleshoot whether a DAC really is for you, 9/10 times the Apple USB-C to 3.5mm dongle will perform as well or better than more expensive units. At about $8, it's not a huge loss if you try it and then don't need it after all. If a DAC improves the sound, it fixed an error— spending more money here no longer gets you better results. Headphones nowadays are made primarily for mobile or computer-bound listeners, so the days of needing a huge stack of HiFi equipment are also largely over. Similar to DACs: You only need an amplifier if you can't get a usable volume level out of your headphones when they're connected to the device you're trying to listen to (hereafter referred to as: "source device"). Though there are some edge cases where you will need an amp, those are most commonly reserved for those using very expensive headphones with an equalizer. Cables You don't need new cables unless they break or something. There's a lot of snake oil out there, so don't let the dweeb at the A/V store upsell you on gold-plated anything. The product works or it doesn't. Brands to Avoid? Much like the "era of needing a shitload of amps" is over, so too is the "era of complete dogshit brands." Beats have a lot of good models. Bose, once maligned for lacking bass and treble simultaneously: also good now. We're treading into the era of understanding that personal fit and preference matters way more to the individual than meeting one universal benchmark. And even then, there is no correlation between how a headphone sounds and its price. That said, don't be a fool! If you spend $5 on cheap earbuds on Amazon, you will likely get what you pay for. No-name brands are a bad bet. Burn-in isn't a thing. It's not impossible that you'll hear a difference in sound over time, but it's most likely something else. Or your brain is getting used to the sound. There's no hard evidence that burn-in is actually a thing. Target curves are not gospel If you're looking around at review sites, you'll notice that a lot of what people consider to be their "target" performance varies a lot. A target curve is usually only what that outlet or person feels is what good sound measures as. Just because something doesn't meet a target does not mean it's bad! In fact, a lot of things measure "poorly" that sound fine. Target curves should be used as a reference to compare headphones, little else. While there's a tendency to look to the Harman Target as a gold standard for a target, that's not necessarily what you'll like. 5, Resources This thread is not an exhaustive compendium of headphone knowledge, so definitely look around for more information as you need it. More to come after I step off the plane Measurements (alphabetical order): Headphones.com (youtube) In-ear Fidelity LTT (youtube) RTINGS SoundGuys Squiglink Educate thyself: Digital music is really awesome, your ears are not (READ THIS ALL THE WAY THROUGH) Headphone amps and impedance (NwAvGuy) Power (NwAvGuy) Mr. Mercury fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Sep 11, 2023 |
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Jul 13, 2023 22:09
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| # ¿ May 16, 2024 13:37 |
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Added some more links to the OP; if there's any explainers you particularly enjoy or resources you use for reviews/information/etc, feel free to post here! I'll add more to the OP as time goes on, now that I'm back
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Jul 26, 2023 21:01
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Agreed on the HD 6XX, those are special headphones that may not last long given Drop was bought out by Corsair! Or maybe they will, who knows. Either way, it's a steal at about $200
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Aug 2, 2023 19:04
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You'll probably love them, they're quite good It's really tough to go wrong with those kinds of options
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Aug 3, 2023 02:46
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Ah yeah, there's that- if anything touches your outer ear it'll compress it and make your auditory system less able to process spatial cues in the way that it's used to because, well, the outer ear is what first angles sound into your head-holes. If you find that your headphones stop working so well on imaging, it's possible the foam pads just need to be replaced because you've stressed the foam over the years
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Aug 4, 2023 20:26
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Hey, whatever suits you best! But yeah don't listen to audiophiles lol
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Aug 4, 2023 21:51
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It's possible the seal is interrupted somewhere. Circular nozzle sleeves aren't really perfectly shaped for ear canals, so sometimes they bunch and fold upon insertion. Try a smaller size if you can
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Aug 9, 2023 01:52
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That can work too! Fit is a pain sometimes, but especially annoying with earbuds
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Aug 9, 2023 05:45
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Yep
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Sep 9, 2023 04:19
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Absolutely! But the old op hasn't posted in ages and it took a while to get the thread closed IYG takes a while sometimes 
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Sep 9, 2023 05:32
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Kirios posted:oh my god you mad lads finally created a new headphone thread I've been granted the ability to tidy up about IYG so that's what I'm hoping to do!
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Sep 13, 2023 20:00
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Also the Bose QC 45 superseded a couple hours ago: https://www.bose.com/pressroom/bose-announces-new-quietcomfort-ultra-headphones-and-earbuds Should be able to snag some older models on the cheap this black Friday if I had to guess
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Sep 14, 2023 23:30
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Howdy- this discussion, though it originated in the thread, is off-topic! Self-promotion is also off-topic, so there's that. Is there any way I could convince you to report these things versus giving them air? I agree, the name is offensive to give a company; but this is the sort of thing a report or PM to modmin is for Slurs, innuendo towards the same, etc. are against IYG rules and have no place here. Mr. Mercury fucked around with this message at 07:23 on Sep 17, 2023 |
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Sep 17, 2023 04:05
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"Stay on-topic," is the headline here. I don't want to keep this derail going. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) Mr. Mercury fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Sep 17, 2023 |
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Sep 17, 2023 08:15
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njsykora posted:Something that came to mind over the last few days, with USB-C becoming more and more standard on devices do you think there's actually a path where the 3.5mm jack actually becomes obsolete outside specialist use in favour of USB Audio? It's going to be interesting, that's for sure I'm sure there will still be holdouts for anything reqiring more power (eg, audiophile, legacy stuff), but on the whole I think you're right. Just too convenient for both listening and music production But then again that was conventional wisdom in 2018 so who knows!
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Sep 19, 2023 16:02
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Yeah I get the feeling the appetite for more-expensive, more easily broken things in music production/performance isn't really very high. Also, Lenbrook bought MQA
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Sep 19, 2023 18:41
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True wireless definitely has its glaring problems. Is there a reason they never seem to have a key ring or something else to attach them to something important?Clark Nova posted:I don't know if anybody is doing reviews and recommendation specifically for bone conduction headsets. Your options basically come down to the name brand, Shokz, at $80-180, and Chinese knockoffs around $30. I have an Aftershok Aeropex (now sold as Shokz OpenRun Pro) and while it is nice, I can't imagine it is six or seven times better than the no-name headphones. None of these are ever going to sound truly good for listening to music, but they're fine for podcasts and audiobooks, and mine have a surprisingly good microphone for phone calls They're tough because the traditional methods to test aren't that cheap, and even then the results may not be comparable to a human head. There's a couple sites out there that review, but it's as you say: the application for these is a bit different
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Sep 25, 2023 19:40
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It wouldn't surprise me if it isn't, but there are worse problems with that headset than the channel imbalance
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Nov 6, 2023 00:42
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Even though sometimes it's a pain in the rear end, I like having a detachable cable
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Dec 2, 2023 02:52
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Can confirm. In-ears are the product type that has the wildest variation on performance due to fit, and the traditional cylindrical nozzle design can pose problems for your ear canal. If you like your earbuds but they're uncomfortable, fall out, or just all of a sudden don't block out noise/lose bass, the issue is the fit. It can most often be solved with new tips (assuming the nozzle/housing isn't too big for your ear)
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Jan 2, 2024 18:51
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qirex posted:There’s a new wireless standard called SKAA that’s supposed to be low latency. Not wide vendor support yet. are they hoping that the market will pick it up pick it up pick it up
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Jan 17, 2024 07:50
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Probably not until Sept/Nov
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Jan 21, 2024 00:56
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Aside from Anker I'm unaware of sleep buds on the market still I'm shocked at how high the prices have climbed on the Bose sleepbuds II, that's bananas Everything else in finding is a crapshoot on AliExpress; the Xiaomi ones look like they have a long nozzle, so those are likely out Mr. Mercury fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Feb 20, 2024 |
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Feb 20, 2024 18:37
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For the handful of nerds in the hobbyist/IEM space, it looks like the B&K 5128 test fixture is here to stay (and also some interesting findings wrt preference scores and ear canal impedance toward the end of the video). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-07yI5abm8 Mr. Mercury fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Mar 16, 2024 |
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Mar 16, 2024 22:56
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Should be interesting to see how further research pans out with lower ear gain tunings, if the pilot study was indicative of anything. The Senselab results had a wide range of statistical tie, but this is twice now that we've seen low ear gain tunings do well in different contexts (over ear headphones and now IEMs). Even other review sites are following SoundGuys and Apple here. Wonder if it holds up after a larger study? Mr. Mercury fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Mar 20, 2024 |
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Mar 20, 2024 06:28
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It's possible that the earbuds just fit you better. ANC requires a good seal for best results, so if your jaw, glasses, or ears interrupt the seal on over ears; it's definitely realistic to think that a pair of well-fitting earbuds would outperform headphones
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Apr 27, 2024 00:28
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A DAC isn't necessary in this day and age. There is something wrong with your computer, though, so that is one of the vanishingly small situations where it'd be warranted. Captain Walker posted:Rec me some headphones, please! Any Beyerdynamic headphones will fit this set of needs, but the DT 770 PRO is probably your best bet. Unless, of course, you want open backs, in which case the Massdrop x Sennheiser HD 6XX is good. Both have easy clean/repair options, and have velour pads that handle glasses well
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Apr 29, 2024 02:10
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| # ¿ May 16, 2024 13:37 |
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JLab JBuds Lux are comfortable, ANC, and about 80 bucks. JLab's app is also one of the better ones, allowing for 10-band EQ and a volume limiter for most models
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May 3, 2024 20:04
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