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LGD
Sep 25, 2004

AndyElusive posted:

As an army? I wanna say they debuted in 3rd edition. So like '98?

that's correct, the 3rd edition box was Black Templar and Dark Eldar

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LGD
Sep 25, 2004

3rd was huge in terms of changes to 40k, tonally, rules-wise, and in terms of introducing new factions - beyond Dark Eldar, Necrons were also introduced right at the tail end of 2nd in 1998 as well (though their original incarnation is fairly removed from the [much, much, much better] modern version), Tau were added in 2001, Grey Knights, etc.

e: oh and of course a good number of 2E factions got 'squatted'

LGD fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Aug 3, 2023

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

Cooked Auto posted:

I think the longevity of 3rd is why GW does edition switches every couple of years now. Since that one lasted from 1998 to 2004.

yeah, though it'll be interesting to see if that continues given the apparent change in approach to rules distribution and updating, since it means there is potentially less financial incentive to try to sell people new codices

otoh the need to shake things up periodically in order to move kits hasn't gone away, so maybe not

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

Stephenls posted:

If I were super independently wealthy and had nothing but free time I would want to construct a Genestealer Cults army that's all kitbashed together to represent a non-GSC plain old non-chaos non-xenos mass uprising on an Imperial world against Imperial governance.

It'd probably be a terrible army because I'd have to leave out all the gribbly alien units, but I suppose "terrible army doomed to defeat in every battle" is in-theme for a grass-roots mass uprising on a hive world.

I don’t even think you’d need to leave out the gribbly aliens, just find stuff that works on-theme - i.e.aberrants work as heavier mining suits/power lifters, ogryn-esque abhumans, industrial servitors/cyborgs, or just incredibly swole and chemically enhanced laborers

patriarch/genestealers as a suborned/heretical death cult and it’s leader or a bunch of foppish younger nobles who are good with a sword

(theming probably depends on the narrative behind the mass uprising)

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

Geisladisk posted:

All guns costing the same thing (i.e 0) would be cool if they could manage to make each gun actually about as good, but at different things. In some cases this would be fairly easy (i.e this is the anti big thing gun, this is the anti lots of small things gun), but for models with just a silly amount of options that would be extremely difficult.

the solution there is just to condense the profiles to something like "heirloom weapons" or "defensive weapon array" or a choice between "anti-tank" and "anti-infantry" weapons (or firing modes) that encompass multiple different options

which they did in some cases, but not consistently or aggressively enough

probably are still some situations where you'd want the granularity and an appreciable power difference, but its still historically usually been "low power/cheap" vs. "the good option" so imo you can probably just add an extra unit(s) (i.e. "Unit X" vs. "Unit X Vehicle Eliminators") and (if it's a concern) then either use datasheet rules/keywords to have them count as the same unit for rule-of-three reasons

I can sort off see an argument for a half-step thing where you pay a flat cost to unlock a different tier of gear, but I think that just starts pointing you back towards individual option pricing

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

Al-Saqr posted:

Isnt having a terminator chaplain (other than looking beefy and cool) supreme overkill? Every time I played with or against Terminators they seemed almost unkillable and with the Chaplain buffs they'd be unstoppable.

Then again I havent played any game above the size of combat patrol so far so I imagine once my screamer killer is fielded they'll have a nasty time.

it's all contextual (and whether it'll be worth the points is always an open question) - while those buffs are absolutely going to be useless/overkill in a bunch of situations, a 4+ FNP against one of the things that can often efficiently take them out might also mean they remain a tough/unattractive target rather than just evaporating off the board, and similarly a +1 to wound isn't a big deal if they're pulping overmatched opponents (like basic guardsman/marine equivalents) but it gets relevant really quickly against vehicles (knights), big monsters (the aforementioned screamer-killer), and equivalent/superior elites

none of those scenarios are particularly uncommon

e:

Al-Saqr posted:

I might sound like a buzzkill but despite that Fulgrim model looking super cool it also looks incredibly fragile i would be scared of breathing on it let alone playing with it.

I think that's a sensible reaction to it - it'd look very nice in a display cabinet but seems like an accident waiting to happen if movement is involved (those wings would be worrisome even if it was in plastic)

LGD fucked around with this message at 11:09 on Aug 31, 2023

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

https://twitter.com/DYorgy/status/1704527096024875221

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

GreenBuckanneer posted:

Some custodian players are telling me no one will ever want 20 sisters and bikes aren't great right now so to skip getting two combat patrols

that's correct for the moment, though there is always possibility things could change with point shifts and/or the codex (balance patch definitely upended the existing balance)

sisters don't really do damage/take damage/interact favorably with units other people take so you generally just want to run 40 point minimum size units of prosecutors for action/mission stuff, and there's an upper limit on how much of that you want/need vs. units that actually do things

and, while they've been good in the past, the bikes are currently just tinier units of custodian guard with a 12" movement range, which is ok in the abstract but not when you're paying a ~60% premium, they're just an inefficient use of points

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LGD
Sep 25, 2004

unless you're overly worried they're getting squatted that would seem to be a bigger knock against starting a Custodes force atm, since a future codex has potential to be good/fun, while the 10E Custodes codex is locked in as extremely underwhelming/mechanically putrid

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