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Typical Pubbie posted:TCM is my first assym horror game and I'm having a blast. Once you start learning the maps, the opportunity for misdirection as a survivor really opens up. I've had DbD in my library for a while, so I finally installed it just to see what all the fuss was about. It looks and plays like an Xbox 360 game. This is supposed to be a TCM killer? Heh.
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Aug 30, 2023 12:58
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DBD lets you murder Nicolas Cage as Pinhead. No other game even comes close to that level.
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Aug 30, 2023 13:12
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The one and only thing that puts me off of DbD is all the min-maxing, grognard bullshit that I refuse to learn. I hear people talking about all the perks by name, and everybody who's deep into the game knows immediately what they mean and my eyes go cross. Everything on the Bloodweb, to me, looks identical with slightly different percentages that do things I can't even begin to comprehend. I like the basic gameplay, it's fine, and I pretty much only play killer when I play because survivor looks boring, but it feels like I'm missing out on 80% of the game by not really understanding the perks and what they do.
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Aug 30, 2023 14:05
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If you don't mind that occasionally survivors will do something you didn't expect and you need to go hit them again then you don't need to know perks. And you really can't mind if they use those chances to escape but again you don't need to put your nose to that grindstone when you could be good at chasing. Not knowing killer perks will get you aura read about a thousand times as survivor admittedly.
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Aug 30, 2023 14:15
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Doomykins posted:Not knowing killer perks will get you aura read about a thousand times as survivor admittedly. That's what Distortion and Off the Record are for. Plus Shadowstep I guess.
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Aug 30, 2023 14:16
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King Vidiot posted:The one and only thing that puts me off of DbD is all the min-maxing, grognard bullshit that I refuse to learn. MFT is pretty broken because it means they get a permanent and consequential speed buff while running, and many of these people have been training in the gravity chamber to be able to perfectly run loops. I believe you can also stack various other things with it, leading to survivors you just cannot catch?
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Aug 30, 2023 14:18
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My personal strategy for dealing with loops is just, don't. I see somebody running for a cluster of pallets and I just wander off back to generator patrol duty. I learned at least that much from my time in F13, when people would do the "jump through windows repeatedly" trick.
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Aug 30, 2023 14:23
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King Vidiot posted:My personal strategy for dealing with loops is just, don't. I see somebody running for a cluster of pallets and I just wander off back to generator patrol duty. I learned at least that much from my time in F13, when people would do the "jump through windows repeatedly" trick.
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Aug 30, 2023 14:26
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King Vidiot posted:The one and only thing that puts me off of DbD is all the min-maxing, grognard bullshit that I refuse to learn. Making meta builds and optimizing your play? Yeah sure, that's some grognardy bullshit def, but learning perks, powers and picking up knowledge is just part of playing the game imo. The more you play, the more you'll internalize naturally till you start recognizing things without having to think about it, even if it's not by name and just "the medkit purple addon that makes the survivor take an extra hit".
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Aug 30, 2023 14:32
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Honestly the truth is you don't need to learn evvvverrrry perk but I'd say there's a good 10-15 on each side that you should probably understand as it will seriously affect your play.
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Aug 30, 2023 14:41
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https://twitter.com/OtzdarvaYT/status/1696869602163032378?s=20
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Aug 30, 2023 14:50
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I agree entirely that a lot of killer is just recognizing where not to even bother trying to chase someone. Like if someone keeps beelining for the house on Garden of Joy gently caress it, you are never going to get them barring something sneaky like a Demo teleport/being Nurse. Otherwise the upstairs window is way too strong for you Relatedly plopping a Demo portal on the stairs there is funny as poo poo and does catch people on the gen since he momentarily snuffs his terror radius on a teleport
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Aug 30, 2023 15:05
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Nessus posted:It's all just ways that those little shits get more slippery so they can put themselves into situations where they can spam the CTRL key MFT + Hope in endgame gives them 110% speed which means there are at least a few killers that cannot catch up and many more that are at equal speed. It's gross.
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Aug 30, 2023 15:26
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DeathChicken posted:I agree entirely that a lot of killer is just recognizing where not to even bother trying to chase someone. Like if someone keeps beelining for the house on Garden of Joy gently caress it, you are never going to get them barring something sneaky like a Demo teleport/being Nurse. Otherwise the upstairs window is way too strong for you Ha hell yeah I do that too it's great. Agreed on the house but there are some times I will chase them when it's the loops that involve that kitchen window for example because they always think they're invulnerable and I'll just go out the side door. Even the window by the gen can be countered depending on how far ahead of you they vault. If they wait longer it's tough.
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Aug 30, 2023 15:32
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Dawgstar posted:Well the game's not coming back but to answer the larger question, yes, Jason (and Pamela) Voorhees creator Victor Miller won in court (twice) against Sean Cunningham. It was always completely valid under California law but Cunningham just had to kick. What it means for Jason they're still working out but this means Miller gets a cut of stuff he always ought to have had. Not to derail too much, but while I don't know if there is a long term deal in place, Miller (who owns the rights to the original Friday the 13 movie) and Cunningham (who still owns the rights to all the others, meaning that he owns hockey mask adult jason) both came to an agreement over the Bryan Fuller upcoming maybe prequel, maybe spin off tv series. So Fuller can use anything from the movie universe that he wants.
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Aug 30, 2023 15:34
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Regardless, I don't think Gun Media are ever going to work on F13 again no matter what happens.
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Aug 30, 2023 15:56
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Nessus posted:It's all just ways that those little shits get more slippery so they can put themselves into situations where they can spam the CTRL key I kind of agree with Otzdarva's take on the speed half of Made For This. Namely, that if it didn't stack it'd be basically fine if you knew it was there, but the problem is that a 3% speed increase is nearly impossible to notice until you've played through an entire match against them and it's just annoying to constantly wonder if you need to play around someone being slightly faster or not. If they made it not stack with Hope and just gave killers an icon to show them a person they're chasing has MFT, that half of it would probably be fine? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVIEc7sE-20
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Aug 30, 2023 16:07
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Lurks With Wolves posted:I kind of agree with Otzdarva's take on the speed half of Made For This. Namely, that if it didn't stack it'd be basically fine if you knew it was there, but the problem is that a 3% speed increase is nearly impossible to notice until you've played through an entire match against them and it's just annoying to constantly wonder if you need to play around someone being slightly faster or not. If they made it not stack with Hope and just gave killers an icon to show them a person they're chasing has MFT, that half of it would probably be fine? While I don't disagree that MTF is frustrating in that you have no idea the survivor you're chasing is 3% faster while injured, what about the flip side of Killers using perks/add-ons to get subtle or more blatant speed boosts? Should those be signposted as well? To be fair most killer speed boosts are niche or conditional perks/add-ons, but e.g.what if getting into a chase with a Hag at the start of a match and you get a notification she's using the shoe, suddenly you're handed the information that she can't teleport and that the traps will bodyblock. That's kind of a big deal to know up front, for an add-on that functions better as a surprise. Would it be better to just normalize speed boost notifications across the board and roles, or just make it so MTF specifically gives a notification so you're aware of it?
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Aug 30, 2023 16:22
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Evil Kit posted:While I don't disagree that MTF is frustrating in that you have no idea the survivor you're chasing is 3% faster while injured, what about the flip side of Killers using perks/add-ons to get subtle or more blatant speed boosts? Should those be signposted as well? If you watch the video Otz's point is that MFT is the only Exhaustion perk that doesn't have a tell for the killer. Thus, you have to always play assuming they have it. Killers are faster than survivors and I don't think they need any type of tell for the survivors when they're moving faster, tbh.
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Aug 30, 2023 16:24
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Medullah posted:If you watch the video Otz's point is that MFT is the only Exhaustion perk that doesn't have a tell for the killer. Thus, you have to always play assuming they have it. Dead Hard doesn't have a tell either tho, and it also forced killers to play a specific way. It sounds like something BHVR just needs to change then yeah.
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Aug 30, 2023 16:35
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I'm 100% fine with extra visual confirmation for killer speed ups to match MFT and so on getting them. Specifically those, aura reads for both sides should be hidden or extremely subtle(you can tell people have distortion by the absence of a read if you really pay attention) and so on. But no you shouldn't have to squint and guess ahh gee they're moving x+.03 terrain units instead of x!!! Also you could have fun with it. Bamboozle Vault should make a little evil clown laugh, maybe add a honk honk.
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Aug 30, 2023 16:36
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Also... there aren't that many sources of Haste for killers that would have the same problem as Made For This. Look at the relevant wiki page. Sure, there's stuff like Play With Your Food and Machine Learning that's a big enough deal to be notable, but killer speed changes are pretty universally either part of their power or a basic "do a thing that slows you down, then get a speed boost to catch up". Sometimes there's also "make a slow killer into a normal speed killer with this add-on". The point is, almost all of them have clear tells and they're generally big enough to be easily noticed after it triggers the first time if a survivor is paying attention to how fast the killer is moving.
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Aug 30, 2023 16:40
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Evil Kit posted:Dead Hard doesn't have a tell either tho, and it also forced killers to play a specific way. It sounds like something BHVR just needs to change then yeah. Dead Hard has gigantic tells when it's been used. Yeah you have to play around it, but once it's used you know "Yep, this person has Dead Hard" and your style changes. With MFT you never know for sure that it's what they have.
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Aug 30, 2023 16:40
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Medullah posted:Dead Hard has gigantic tells when it's been used. Yeah you have to play around it, but once it's used you know "Yep, this person has Dead Hard" and your style changes. With MFT you never know for sure that it's what they have. Bold of you to think I can remember which of the four David Kings running around has Dead Hard (it's all of them)
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Aug 30, 2023 16:46
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King Vidiot posted:The one and only thing that puts me off of DbD is all the min-maxing, grognard bullshit that I refuse to learn. I can 100% relate to this. I still do watch videos and learn (some of) the grognard bullshit... I just don't love it. That's why I think the game could be improved by showing, on-screen during a chase, that the other player has x% haste or whatever. You don't even have to say what perk(s) it's from... just knowing that speed boosts and body-blocking hags exist would help onboard new players. The first time I ran into Blood Warden, I was baffled. I didn't even know you could block the exit like that! And since the game won't show you Killer perks until the end of the game, you're left with the choice of waiting for everyone else to die so you can finally (maybe) see why something happened, or just accept that you're constantly going to be bombarded with random bonuses and debuffs that you have no way to understand. It's not a great system.
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Aug 30, 2023 17:02
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Medullah posted:Dead Hard has gigantic tells when it's been used. Yeah you have to play around it, but once it's used you know "Yep, this person has Dead Hard" and your style changes. With MFT you never know for sure that it's what they have. The point I'm making with Dead Hard is that until they use it (and this give away they have it), you don't know they have it. Certainly at one point in the game it was so prevalent it was easier to play like every survivor was running it! Which is what MTF is also doing, it just doesn't have an obvious give away at any point. Tbh I was just trying to offer up about the killer side also having some places where there are speed boosts without obvious tells (one was just added by the Alien even!) and MTF just feels more frustrating because unlike every other survivor speed boost perk it doesn't have obvious tells that let the killer player adjust their choices.
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Aug 30, 2023 17:15
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More Tcm today, but only victim instead of only killer. So far its fun, played against a 3 stack killers and just got loving WRECKED. But that was my fourth victim game ever so, you know, to be expected. edit. Next game, first sub 2 min escape as connie. Out the door on gas station, every other victim got murdered though. canada jezus fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Aug 30, 2023 |
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Aug 30, 2023 17:33
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Evil Kit posted:The point I'm making with Dead Hard is that until they use it (and this give away they have it), you don't know they have it. Certainly at one point in the game it was so prevalent it was easier to play like every survivor was running it! Which is what MTF is also doing, it just doesn't have an obvious give away at any point. I get what you're saying, but MFT is the ONLY exhaustion perk that has no tell even after hitting. Dead Hard will get you one time but after that you can play around it. Sprint Burst - You know as soon as you start chasing them. Lithe/Balanced landing - You know as soon as they vault/fall Overcome - You know as soon as you hit them Smash Hit - You know as soon as you're hit with a pallet Head On - You get hit with it from a locker Maaaybe you can count Background Player as a perk you don't notice, but it's use case is so small. Otz just wants some indicator like the others. There's also the fact that it's easy to hack the game and give yourself a natural 3% speed boost and thus harder to see cheaters, it was already hard enough.
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Aug 30, 2023 17:38
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Evil Kit posted:The point I'm making with Dead Hard is that until they use it (and this give away they have it), you don't know they have it. Certainly at one point in the game it was so prevalent it was easier to play like every survivor was running it! Which is what MTF is also doing, it just doesn't have an obvious give away at any point. It's the fact that it doesn't have a tell at any point that's the problem. You have absolutely no way of telling, for the entire match, that a survivor is slightly faster than usual and why. Dead Hard has the decency of having a tell when used and isn't a constant effect that you have to deal with. They use it, you now know they have it, and they can only use it once per chase. I also don't believe that the killer side having similar things is quite as similar as you're making it out to be. PWYF has tokens, the Hag/Nurse add-ons have severe drawbacks, survivors just get a free speed boost for being injured, a state they can be reasonably expected to be in for a good chunk of the match. In case of Plague it's even worse. Relyssa fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Aug 30, 2023 |
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Aug 30, 2023 18:26
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Relyssa posted:It's the fact that it doesn't have a tell at any point that's the problem. You have absolutely no way of telling, for the entire match, that a survivor is slightly faster than usual and why. Dead Hard has the decency of having a tell when used and isn't a constant effect that you have to deal with. They use it, you now know they have it, and they can only use it once per chase. Idk I still think the comparison to the killer side speed buffs is still apt. Even if they're far more conditional and not optimal obviously but it can still be frustrating to get your game sense messed with by some killer surprising you with PWYF. A decent chunk of those boosts have no tell whatsoever other than observation over an entire match and checking the post game scoreboard, just like MTF. The issue with MTF is that aside from somehow being exhausted, it's just a flat boost when injured no matter what which is pretty broad for a conditional. And who knows, maybe BHVR's goal was to try and encourage more use of exhaustion causing add-ons and perks  I'm not railing against changes to MTF here, it should be changed in some way even if it's just a notice that you can see the survivor having it active. If it was more conditional like most killer or survivor speed boosts then we might not even be having this conversation! Medullah posted:I get what you're saying, but MFT is the ONLY exhaustion perk that has no tell even after hitting. Dead Hard will get you one time but after that you can play around it. My point was dead hard was equally game warping even if you could play around it, it changed player behavior simply by existing. Also I finally double checked MTF's description and I'm not sure I agree with it being called an Exhaustion perk. Being affected by exhaustion =/= causing exhaustion for a significant benefit. That'll just be a me thing though Evil Kit fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Aug 30, 2023 |
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Aug 30, 2023 18:50
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Made This For
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Aug 30, 2023 19:19
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BrewingTea posted:Made This For I will now be unable to think of it any other way
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Aug 30, 2023 19:23
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DeathChicken posted:Relatedly plopping a Demo portal on the stairs there is funny as poo poo and does catch people on the gen since he momentarily snuffs his terror radius on a teleport I prefer that side room on the opposite side of the hall from the gen room, the one that leads back out to the balcony. People run past the stairs all the time, nobody ever goes in that room. To the point that I have given a lot of killers the slip while playing survivor by just running through there and then dropping down and running to shack. Not even being sneaky about it because they hear the "wooOOAAAOOOHH" and assume I'm falling out the window. re: MFT speed boost: It is literally the same situation as old old Dead Hard was. No way of knowing they have it (untul the obvious tell is used, which in the case of MFT is the endurance which is shared by like 5 other things), extends chase simply by existing, requires no game knowledge to use it, warps killer gameplay and perception and changes the way they play even if it isn't present because it is otherwise omnipresent. It's the same reasons old DH was so bad for the game. Only requires injury to use an effect that is hella strong if the survivor knows how to use it even marginally well. You can tell it's a powerful meta-defining perk because it's near exclusively talked about in acronym format like DS, UB, DH, BT...
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Aug 30, 2023 19:24
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Relyssa posted:You have absolutely no way of telling, for the entire match, that a survivor is slightly faster than usual and why. It also muddies the water even more on subtle cheaters which sucks.
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Aug 30, 2023 20:34
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What gets me about the design of MFT is that it has 100% uptime. At least when you get hit by an exhaust perk it's done for the chase barring a truly heroic 40 second mid chase stealth play or good teamwork to wrench your attention away.
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Aug 30, 2023 20:40
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Yardbomb posted:It also muddies the water even more on subtle cheaters which sucks. Yeah, there's been numerous situations where Otz and the entire chat are swearing up and down that a survivor has MFT, but then they didn't. I guess they just mysteriously appeared to be slightly faster than they should be to a guy who probably knows the game better than anyone else? He's too classy to immediately say they're cheating, but come on. Another classic is the "have MFT, and speed hack, but set the speed hack to 5% or 6%". That's still in the range that to most people they will just figure out that the survivor is faster than they should be but then go "oh, they had MFT, that figures" because MOST of us don't have the level of muscle memory for this game that we can immediately feel if someone is two percent faster than they should be.
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Aug 31, 2023 10:59
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So I have a group of four friends (four including me, so four people in total) and this game's on discount this weekend. If we all buy it with the intention of just playing with the four of us (IE: One killer, three survivors) are we going to have a good time? I found a Steam forums post indicating that you need to deal with fewer generators if there are fewer survivors, but the post was from 2016 and I have no idea if it's still true or can be relied upon.
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Aug 31, 2023 20:38
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Gort posted:So I have a group of four friends (four including me, so four people in total) and this game's on discount this weekend. If we all buy it with the intention of just playing with the four of us (IE: One killer, three survivors) are we going to have a good time? I mean probably. You can also have a bot as the fourth player. You will definitely avoid all the problems with toxic and abusive shitheads (unless, you know...), and while you won't be able to get any progress on daily or weekly quests, or level up characters in custom matches, you will be able to freely pick from all the available perks etc, so it's a moot point.
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Aug 31, 2023 20:41
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Gort posted:So I have a group of four friends (four including me, so four people in total) and this game's on discount this weekend. If we all buy it with the intention of just playing with the four of us (IE: One killer, three survivors) are we going to have a good time? You'll likely have a good time. Progression is disabled in custom matches, but in exchange it opens up everything for use - all perks/items/add-ons, etc. One generator is removed from the requirement for each missing survivor, so three survivors would need to repair 4 generators. The game is balanced around a team of 4 so it won't be quite the same but you'll still enjoy yourselves especially if you don't take it seriously.
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Aug 31, 2023 20:42
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Gort posted:So I have a group of four friends (four including me, so four people in total) and this game's on discount this weekend. If we all buy it with the intention of just playing with the four of us (IE: One killer, three survivors) are we going to have a good time? It'll be fun, but you'll only be able to do custom matches with killer as a friend, and the downside to custom matches is they don't give you any points for progression. But the upside is, in custom games all perks are unlocked so if that's all you're doing it won't matter much. And yeah, if you do a custom lobby with only 3 survivors there will be 1 less generator to repair. You can always add a bot for the 4th though.
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Aug 31, 2023 20:42
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