|
Thoom posted:Cool. I think I'll just take the death and look up the easter egg/final memory so I don't have to quit out every time I gently caress up.  I love every time they pull that trick
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 21:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 5, 2024 09:21 |
|
|
I'm 28 levels deep into the DIS area and these are some of the best puzzles in the game so far. I've come to accept that forlorn idols don't have any consistent behavior and just do whatever the level needs of them, which feels weird but the levels are so good it doesn't matter. My favorite is definitely the one where pausing makes the idol move upward. I was seriously questioning my sanity until I figured that one out, because I just kept trying things and sometimes I'd notice the idol had moved without my touching it, but I couldn't figure out why until I decided to keep pestering the egg, which gave one of the best oblique hints in the game. The floor I'm currently on is also really cool because just getting to the exit is easy enough, but if you do it the easy way there's an egg you won't be able to talk to because you've disabled your memory cube to stop the diamond from murdering you. The only thing I really don't like is the 23rd and 27th floors of the area. The 23rd floor egg says "There's another room... just like this one... I just can't remember... what it looked like..." The 27th floor can be rearranged to make it identical to the 23rd (modulo a couple of the judgy statues lighting up), so I did that, and as far as I can tell nothing happened, so I moved on. I don't know what's going on there, but I'm not a fan of it because it left me feeling like a) I missed something and b) when I discover what I missed, I'll be punished by what's probably going to be an hour long tedious slog to get back to it. This area is way too deep to be hiding easily missable secrets. Even if this turns out to be benign, it's still a bad feeling caused by the game failing to instill trust in me as a player that they're not going to waste a shitload of my time for no reason (and as funny as it is, the thing referenced in the thread title, easily losing 15-60 minutes to a simple mistake is a huge contributor to this lack of trust). The best comparison I can think of is one of Outer Wilds' failure modes where a player can spend an hour doing frustrating, fiddly precision platforming because the game has failed to teach them to trust that there's always an elegant, low-execution-barrier solution if you just think a bit harder (e.g. getting to the Sun Station). As I commented earlier, the game would really benefit from a much more powerful shortcut system having been unlocked by this point. Once the player knows how to reach the DIS floors, getting from the start of the game to B227 is just tedious busywork that there's no value in repeating.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2024 21:57
|
|
|
Thoom posted:The only thing I really don't like is the 23rd and 27th floors of the area. The 23rd floor egg says "There's another room... just like this one... I just can't remember... what it looked like..." The 27th floor can be rearranged to make it identical to the 23rd (modulo a couple of the judgy statues lighting up), so I did that, and as far as I can tell nothing happened, so I moved on. I don't know what's going on there, but I'm not a fan of it because it left me feeling like a) I missed something and b) when I discover what I missed, I'll be punished by what's probably going to be an hour long tedious slog to get back to it. This area is way too deep to be hiding easily missable secrets.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2024 22:00
|
|
|
That was in the back of my mind as the most benign possibility. IMO, the game should have done something to communicate that you've succeeded, like making a little noise or having the forlorn idol's eyes light up or something.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2024 22:05
|
|
|
As someone currently in the same area and progressing through at a rate of about one or two of them per session, this is deeply concerning.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2024 22:07
|
|
|
Thoom posted:I'm 28 levels deep into the DIS area and these are some of the best puzzles in the game so far. I've come to accept that forlorn idols don't have any consistent behavior and just do whatever the level needs of them, which feels weird but the levels are so good it doesn't matter. My favorite is definitely the one where pausing makes the idol move upward. I was seriously questioning my sanity until I figured that one out, because I just kept trying things and sometimes I'd notice the idol had moved without my touching it, but I couldn't figure out why until I decided to keep pestering the egg, which gave one of the best oblique hints in the game. The floor I'm currently on is also really cool because just getting to the exit is easy enough, but if you do it the easy way there's an egg you won't be able to talk to because you've disabled your memory cube to stop the diamond from murdering you. There is actually a pretty powerful shortcut system but you have to intuit it, the game never tells you outright: On the brand entry levels, you don't have to put the brand of the domain you're currently in
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2024 23:13
|
|
|
Oh, that's pretty clever. I wouldn't have thought to do that before getting the upgraded wand, since outside of B053 you don't have very much control over the number of tiles available. That means you can get to the late game in only ~9 rooms by taking the B007 shortcut and drawing Cif's brand in B023.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2024 23:32
|
|
|
Thoom posted:Oh, that's pretty clever. I wouldn't have thought to do that before getting the upgraded wand, since outside of B053 you don't have very much control over the number of tiles available. That means you can get to the late game in only ~9 rooms by taking the B007 shortcut and drawing Cif's brand in B023. There's another reason to use Cif's brand there beyond shortcutting a lot of floors! But yes, the brands are a fixed "output" destination; while it can be tricky to do this prior to the Super Void Rod, the B53 glass tile brand floor gives you significant control over the number of tiles you have to make a brand with and can get you to most brand destinations as you've stated. I personally overlooked B23 for it myself and a lot of my "speedruns" to mess with things involved B007 -> B023, running to the B37 triple leech Mon clue hole, and letting that spit me out on B53.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 00:02
|
|
|
Thoom posted:The floor I'm currently on is also really cool because just getting to the exit is easy enough, but if you do it the easy way there's an egg you won't be able to talk to because you've disabled your memory cube to stop the diamond from murdering you. This one took me a few hours of digesting away from the computer to go from "this is impossible" to "oh I see" to "you bastards". Well played, devs. Edit: I am not as fond of the Bee fight as I was of the Mon fight. Thoom fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Apr 24, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 02:31
|
|
|
Thoom posted:Edit: I am not as fond of the Bee fight as I was of the Mon fight. That one's a bit tricky for sure. Related note: If you were unvoided when you got through DIS, Bee eats every one of your locusts prior to the fight. So you're probably gonna void there! EX mode: I think E008 may be the first whiff of EX mode for me. I actually really like it in concept, and honestly doing a quick persual of the System Erasure discord it feels like there's actually quite a variety of solutions you could aim for, but it ultimately exposes one of the consistently weak links in Void Stranger's puzzle design - the "run around stalling for turns because you have to do extremely precise and timing sensitive setup" type of puzzle.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2024 13:57
|
|
|
Not looking for a hint just yet, just recording my struggle for posterity. I'm on Cif, who sure feels like a final boss. Mon told me that my sword was useless and my staff would be useful, but Mon is a shithead and I'm not 100% sure if I believe anything they tell me without locust compensation. First theory: Given that Cif's dialogue advances each time you die, I thought that maybe I just had to wait for them to say their piece and then something would happen, but eventually they stopped talking and that did not seem to end the fight. Second theory: I just need to dump enough of the platform into Cif's face. They do seem to do an "I've taken damage" flash/sound, but I've done 1.5 rows worth and it didn't seem to achieve much and so many of the attacks are such bullshit that I can't imagine surviving much longer than that with next to no room to dodge. I only manage to dodge the attack where the line of balls bounces between targets about 1/5 times even with full maneuvering room. Third theory: Maybe you just stand there and if you don't attack, they don't attack. Swiftly blown to bits. Fourth theory: It's some corny "lay down your burdens" thing, so I turned off the sword/wings/cube, but that didn't seem to do anything. Fifth theory: Just dodge for long enough. I went a couple minutes but nothing special seemed to happen. I can't tell if the attacks were actually escalating (they started comboing the more normal attacks with one where they rain down big balls) or if that was just RNG. Sixth theory: I need to kill the little flying doodads on the sides to stop the attacks, but they go HARD when you get near them so that seems implausible. I did notice that the one on the right is sparkling and the one on the left isn't, so it feels like there's something involving them but it's probably not as simple as "walk up and smack". Edit: Specifically, it starts sparkling near the end of the dialogue, when Cif says "Let me show you... Your evening star's light!", which definitely feels relevant. Dismissed ideas: The platform isn't big enough to engrave a brand on, and even if it was I don't know what I'd engrave. There don't seem to be any permanent safe spots, since several of the attacks have tracking. I noticed when fighting Bee that they moved in real time the first time, but after I quit out and relaunched the game they became turn-based. But that doesn't seem to apply to Cif. My theory is that that's to make sure you take at least one death after Bee steals any remaining locusts to guarantee you're voided for the finale. Gonna do a few more quitouts and read all the dialogue a few more times to try to parse any hints out of that.. Oh, just to check: Unrelated to the thing I'm stuck on, do I have it correct that while the Void Lords refer to each other as "sisters", they all use they/them pronouns? Presumably because they're agendered demons and/or computer programs (side thought: if the reason they're named after Biblical demons is for the sake of a "daemon" pun, I'm going to sigh very loudly). Thoom fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Apr 25, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 01:49
|
|
|
Theory six turned out to be correct, I just needed to wait until they were charging up a an attack to hit them. If I had a nickel for every 2023 indie game I've played that ended with a surprise shmup sequence, and a secret post-credits area where the dev addresses the player directly, I'd have two nickels, the other one being from Sea of Stars. I spent probably 4 or 5 minutes playing the world's slowest, easiest version of DDR before realizing I could just... not do that, and Lev seemed pretty relieved when I finally stopped. Great game. I will admit that I have still have no idea what just happened story-wise, but now that I'm effectively immune to spoilers I can go look stuff up and read the rest of this thread. In a week or two I'll come back for the EX levels, but it feels like that might be a bit of a long term project. Thanks for all the encouragement and advice!
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 07:03
|
|
|
Thoom posted:now that I'm effectively immune to spoilers EX has still got some stuff for you, and have you played ZeroRanger?
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 10:04
|
|
|
I'm playing Zero Ranger next!
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 11:39
|
|
|
Nice job Thoom! Few miscellaneous notes for you covering endgame and the like: 1) There's a google doc up the thread a bit that's a giant secrets/lore document for VS. It does cover some things that reference/overlap Zero Ranger, so if you want to go into that fully blind then I'd hold off on reading, but it's very thorough. It does not contain EX mode info. 2) Regarding the Cif fight, it actually is possible to beat that fight by throwing enough tiles at them. It takes something like 40-50 and you go into a phase 3 of the fight where at least part of your dodging has to be by sound because you're blind. It's on youtube if you're inclined. 3) The "not the first time" easter egg I referenced a day or two ago is going through all of DIS and the endgame - including Bee, Cif and the SHMUP segment - unvoided. Since Bee eats all your locusts, this is, uh, a challenge. 4) If you did want to mess around and not worry about running out of lives as you try Dumb Things, there's a secret in Cif's room that you access via the brand. 5) You can do DIS during the Lillie run. It's not dramatically different - a few different dialogue bits, and Lillie-Add is a different 'ship' for the SHMUP, as well as a few cute little details here and there, but getting the SVR with Lillie is certainly a bit of a challenge given the hard mode puzzles. 6) As you did notice, the Void Lords refer to each other as sisters but use they/them, yes. 7) A fun detail is once you reach DIS, if you run out of locusts and try to refuse the fruit, the bat devil (who you now know the identity of) actually forces you to eat it. No giving up! Tortolia fucked around with this message at 13:54 on Apr 25, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 13:49
|
|
|
Went back to the non-EX parts of the thread. I'm still confused about a few points of lore, but I think I'm going to wait until I get through ZeroRanger/EX to try to fully understand. I will cop to never actually figuring out that you're supposed to hit the opaque flies on Bee, which made it a very long fight. I figured the lightning bolt retaliation was telling me not to do that, and never thought of doing it while hovering over a hole, even though I did use that tactic for mitigating the triple lightning strike when I guessed wrong about which clone was real. I also think something said earlier in the thread about that part was slightly off: the real one isn't the one that's frowning the most, it's the one that's smiling the most. It just looks like a frown because Bee's torso is bent over backwards. I love that I was right about Mon's hint before the Cif fight being a troll. Their characterization is so consistent. Like a proper demon, they faithfully follow through when you make a deal with them to exchange locusts for knowledge, but pretty much everything they say outside of that is untrustworthy. In the final sequence I managed to die the first time in the shmup sequence, and when it reset there was a sparkly thing that I was able to interact with that said something vaguely encouraging (sorry for the lack of detail, I'm sick and running on about 5 hours of sleep in the last 3 days, and got kind of lazy about note taking after beating Cif), does that have any mechanical effect on the shmup? Fun stats: I ended the game with 347 screenshots, 503 lines of text notes, 4 pages of handwritten notes (mostly picross/alphabet-related), and about 40 hours played. Tortolia posted:Nice job Thoom! Few miscellaneous notes for you covering endgame and the like: 2) Yeah, I saw a video and that is some Undertale bullshit right there. 4) I found the 99 locust chest my first time there, which would definitely be helpful if I wanted to grab the rest of the memory crystals, but I'm not so sure I do. Earlier in the thread, someone linked the final memory, but it was a Discord link that has since timed out. Anyone got a fresh copy? 4b) Related, there's a suspicious hole on the left side of that room, but it's blocked by the chest next to it. Anything up with that? 5) Watched a video of that as well. I kind of prefer that version, if only because Lev gets to have fun playing a video game in Lillie's memories instead of being bored out of their mind dancing in Grey's, though I think the happiest route is still Grey -> Lillie -> Cif, because it's the only one where Lillie gets to stay with her mom. I also just enjoy the confusion it generates in the judges when Lillie makes it all the way to the bottom without any kind of higher purpose. I like to think this is because she grew up playing video games and so had a natural instinct to progress through linear puzzle sequences.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2024 19:55
|
|
|
Thoom posted:I will cop to never actually figuring out that you're supposed to hit the opaque flies on Bee, which made it a very long fight. I figured the lightning bolt retaliation was telling me not to do that, and never thought of doing it while hovering over a hole, even though I did use that tactic for mitigating the triple lightning strike when I guessed wrong about which clone was real. It takes longer but it's also a lot safer since you're not taking the risk of getting stuck in between them! When going for non-voided it's also really helpful to dig out a huge checkerboard pattern and use the stocked tiles as patches when needed. No effect that I know of. 4) I put it on imgur for whatever that's worth these days: https://i.imgur.com/T2DfKLd.png I'd just attach it to the forums for a permanent solution but you can't spoiler tag that  4b) I've seen it mentioned in the discord as being of interest but not sure if anybody's actually posted the results because their rules are strictly against modding the game or datamining.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2024 00:06
|
|
|
Saw an ending in EX mode. Had to get hints on a few puzzles and had to look up partial video on a few others just to get a sense of flow, but for the most part they were all pretty sensible and occasionally horrifying escalations of concepts from the base game. Great stuff, and I’ll have to poke at a few more things here when I have a bit of time to sort things out.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2024 03:47
|
|
|
I'm on floor like 175 or whatever and it's honestly starting to lose me. The puzzles are tedious and numerous enough that I'm losing interest in finding out whatever the hell is going on. Is it worth powering through or nah? EDIT: I'm just gonna power through. I'll use a guide if any floors start to piss me off. Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 18:13 on May 3, 2024 |
|
#
?
May 3, 2024 17:54
|
|
|
Yes, I would power through. You are not terribly far from interesting developments. I do recommend taking breaks when the game (not so subtly) recommends it, so you don’t get sick of puzzle-solving.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2024 18:42
|
|
|
I powered through and I knew it, I gotta go through all the puzzles again but without dying too much this time. Also pick up some extra stuff lol. So far I’ve unlocked the first three or so memories, which I don’t know what to think of. Other than that, it looks like the only other thing I have left to do is to try and get through all 225 floors without running out of locusts. Is there something I’m missing…? Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 21:24 on May 3, 2024 |
|
#
?
May 3, 2024 21:22
|
|
|
Hint for post voided run: You can find tools to help you by looking at the murals and looking for floors with a 6x6 grid
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2024 21:31
|
|
|
Tesla was right posted:Hint for post voided run: I would not have made this connection. I thought the mural codes had to be input as part of a brand new game, since they take the same format as my brand, but I never got a chance to change it or anything. Doing this would be far easier if I could jump to specific floors.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2024 21:34
|
|
|
Another thing that can make this part of the game more pleasant: Play around on the rest floors with the trees. There are some fun, surprising and useful things you can do on them.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2024 21:36
|
|
|
Okay, so I did a few things: suicided over and over and didn't choose to continue, got the infinity brand, got infinite locusts, and tried messing around in the birch tree screen. A few funny effects, and a couple weird things to note, but for the most part not a whole lot that can help me. With minimal spoilers, what am I looking for? Ideally, I'd like something to skip floors - kinda hoped the birch tree screen would help with that but nope, just crashes the game.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2024 23:31
|
|
|
The advice about tree floors isn't very helpful when using the infinite locusts brand. As for how to skip floors, do you remember what the giant head told you? That is one method, but it will consume all your locusts and make life harder. There are others but they're hidden, and you never get the ability to easily pick a floor if that's what you're wanting.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2024 23:50
|
|
|
What giant head? Edit: Looked it up - I completely forgot about that. Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 23:58 on May 3, 2024 |
|
#
?
May 3, 2024 23:55
|
|
|
Okay, well that kinda really hosed me over locust-wise. And then I ended up accidentally sending myself back to floor 100, which sucked so I suicided and started a new run. I'm not sure what to do next. What's my goal?
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2024 00:08
|
|
|
At the point you're at, get back to B224 while not Voided - whether using the Infinity brand or not. It's an excellent time to just take copious notes and screenshots of Things That Seem Interesting And Or Weird, and try playing around with said things. For what it's worth, from what you've done already, you've actually tutorialized and learned a whole lot even if you don't think so; you're going to breeze through a lot of puzzles faster than you think you will.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2024 00:12
|
|
|
Pollyanna posted:I'm not sure what to do next. What's my goal? In order of increasing spoiler explanations: You were shown something very prominently during the reset after the voided ending sequence. It will appear very early into a fresh run. If you reach any NPCs you have gone too far. Tesla was right told you above what you're looking for. It's located on floor B023. If you showed off your void rod to the giant head, they should give you the following hint: "Where nothingness engraves the brand of Lord, where the path to damnation rests within you, place your faith and embrace the Void." All you have to do is pick up the stairs, the pattern is already engraved. Throw yourself into the pit when the border art appears. Swilo fucked around with this message at 00:27 on May 4, 2024 |
|
#
?
May 4, 2024 00:25
|
|
|
Swilo posted:In order of increasing spoiler explanations: Only really read up to the one about floor 23, but if you're referring to this:  I did notice a flash of something when I removed the exit, but nothing else happened.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2024 00:31
|
|
|
Swilo gave a direct answer at the end of that post, but if you don't want it completely spelled out, consider what thing(s) you can do when you are holding the stairs and while the border is different than a normal room. Try doing some of them. After all, it's only floor B023, you can get back there in almost no time if things go really wrong.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2024 00:37
|
|
|
Okay, so I've accomplished a few things: Got to floor 255, took screenshots of the floors on the way. Some sort of alphabet code, I'll figure that out later. Saw what I presume is the ending you get without dying, weird cutscene and now I'm even more confused about what the gently caress is going on. goddammit there's a hard mode  Suicided out of that and checked out B023. Cube acquired. Doesn't seem to do anything on the field or have any funny effects in the status bar.  Tried a couple of the intact murals. Whoever's brands these are don't seem to appreciate me using them. To-do list: Get behind the big head. Figure out what to do with those four-eyed black statues. Finish a playthrough with Lillie's brand. Get all the memory crystals. Figure out how to use this chart/graph thing. Figure out how to use the inscriptions on the murals. Talk to eggs??????? I guess I got my work cut out for me! EDIT: since when do the boulders talk  EDIT 2: what the gently caress is a burden Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 18:47 on May 4, 2024 |
|
#
?
May 4, 2024 16:56
|
|
|
Pollyanna posted:EDIT: since when do the boulders talk Since you picked up a certain cube.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2024 17:13
|
|
|
A good to-do list! I was about to reply and you updated your post. The cube, or "void memory", lets you communicate with miscellaneous objects within the dungeon. It's extremely metaprogression important. "Burdens" are simply the catch-all name for things like Void Memory that you might find; you can toggle them on and off from the pause menu if needed.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2024 17:13
|
|
|
jfc i thought that chanting was someone's lawnmower outside
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2024 17:19
|
|
|
Alright, another complaint. I got voided as Lillie and now I regret trying hard mode because I'm incredibly loving stuck on just B006. I want to reset my run and go back to Gray, but you can't reset your run while voided. So I ended up trying to google alternative methods to reset your run and got very vaguely spoiled on what the black statues do, and how to force a reset in voided mode. I tried the latter, and it just...doesn't work? I can throw myself off a cliff a few times, but I'm in a black void and my character isn't doing anything. Supposedly that stupid bat is supposed to show up again but he hasn't yet. IS WHAT I WOULD SAY but I just tried hitting myself awake a little but not going all the way, and now I fully collapse. Apparently I turned into an egg. Reopened the game and mashed keys a bit and now I can restart the run I guess. They really should have added a Give Up option for hard mode cuz come on. I'm actually kinda pissed about this. Okay, an actual question: The egg on B003 says to knock the back side of the chest three times while it's closed (i.e. while there's still something in it), then wait three seconds, and something good will happen. I tried that, and nothing happened. What am I missing? Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 19:42 on May 4, 2024 |
|
#
?
May 4, 2024 19:22
|
|
|
Pollyanna posted:Alright, another complaint. I got voided as Lillie and now I regret trying hard mode because I'm incredibly loving stuck on just B006. I want to reset my run and go back to Gray, but you can't reset your run while voided. My brother/sister in Void you chose to eat the fruit Given you're on Lillie you've already seen how the black statues work at least one time from the Gray VOID run, so that's not really a spoiler. The game is intentional about showing you how to escape a VOID run through that method. In that same vein the game is very intentional about showing you mechanics that aren't in a vacuum. Black statue, cube lets you talk to the egg. As for your question: Did you bonk it three times and stay perfectly still? There's a visual cue. If that doesn't happen, you can try another chest. It'll be obvious
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2024 19:51
|
|
|
If you do it right you get three locusts instead of one.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2024 19:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 5, 2024 09:21 |
|
|
Sounds like you're hooked now Definitely ignore hard mode until you discover more stuff.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2024 19:56
|
|