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I recently acquired a 1966 Plymouth Satellite that up until 2 years ago, when it was last driven, was regularly drag raced at BIR in Minnesota. It was owned and raced by my uncle who passed away earlier this year. He bought it in 2013 with a 440 stroked to 502ci putting out 505hp and 603 ft/lbs. He bought a new engine in 2016, a 440 stroked to 512ci that on the dyno put out 696hp and 670 ft/lbs but the next dyno session brought it down to 620hp and 600 ft/lbs. Along with the new engine he paired it to a 727 transmission that he worked up to survive the new power.  It's sitting on drag slicks right now but he had a set of 315 wide road tires in the garage but I didn't see a DOT date code to determine how old they are (honestly I didn't look very hard).  The interior was slightly stripped while adding the roll cage. Stock seats are long gone, replaced by racing buckets and harness. The rear seats are still installed but currently full of some spare parts including the driveshaft.   It looks like a lot of the stock wiring was removed (I really don't know how much it had to begin with) and these switches were added at some point. One switch is hidden behind the shifter, labelled "CC", any guess as to what that does?  Opening the trunk shows the tubbed wheel wells to make room for the slicks, the fuel cell (110 octane race fuel only, from the documentation I found), and the battery.  Where I stand now I have no idea what I'm doing kidding but not really. I want to turn this into a street car, or as much of a street car as I can. I know it has drag suspension, and a "tied frame" but I don't know how that will affect things. This is my first carbureted car engine so that's going to be fun. The last time it was at the track he was kicked out for an "oil leak". It currently doesn't have the driveshaft installed so without the ziplock I put around the transmission extension housing, it'd be dumping the rest of the transmission fluid so right now I'm assuming the leak is coming from the transmission (possibly the seal on the end of the extension housing?). The engine doesn't have a goddamn dipstick (that I can find) so I have no idea if it has oil, although it's probably due for an oil change anyway since it hasn't been driven in a couple years. The transmission might have a dipstick, but I'll probably change that fluid out too while I'm at it. I'm not sure if there is coolant either; I opened the cap and didn't see any and squeezing the hoses didn't inspire much confidence. The valve covers have these T-bar valve cover nuts. Not sure what the point is, but I have a full set so I suppose I'll install the rest that are still in the original packaging.  No spark plugs installed. I have at least two sets of new plugs, just need to get them installed. I'm considering doing a compression test before I put the spark plugs in, if only just to make sure all 8 cylinders have compression before I try to start it. I also need to figure out the spark plug wires and where each one plugs in. That should be easy to figure out referencing the distributor, but still something I need to do. What else should I do with the engine prior to starting it? I have a rough idea of the shift pattern for the transmission but without any way to see what gear it's currently in. Might change out the shifter at some point. It doesn't have an exhaust beyond the headers. I have two mufflers that were purchased a couple years ago but never installed. Not worried about that now but my neighbors are gonna be pissed. My wife thinks the car is cool but that only goes so far so I'm trying to keep this reasonable. I think this is something I can handle, but I'm not attached to it so worst case I'll get it running again and sell it to someone who wants to keep racing it.
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Sep 14, 2023 02:06
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| # ? Apr 28, 2024 19:07 |
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This was an unexpected delight to read
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Sep 14, 2023 05:55
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Your thread title is a question already answered by your thread title. Others will give you better advice than I will but yeah sort it out and it'll be fun as hell to drive, but the only responsible place to really taste what it can do will be at a track. Fortunately it's not terribly expensive or complicated. Do get that oil leak fixed though, they hate that. Leaks shorten the day for everyone. And I don't think they would kick him out unless he did it more often than he should, so watch out for that. Even if you don't keep it, it looks gorgeous and should bring a stack of pretty pennies to you if you sell it on.
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Sep 14, 2023 06:17
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This is cool as hell, but I wonder how  it is to drive?The T bar rocker fasteners are probably just to make it easier to quickly access for adjustments etc trackside. Definitely needs a yellow dipstick.
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Sep 14, 2023 09:14
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Looking forward to this because it looks very cool but also because… two_beer_bishes posted:worst case I'll get it running again and sell it to someone who wants to keep racing it. 
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Sep 14, 2023 14:41
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The T-bolt valve fasteners are for quicker access, some people are concerned that repeated hard runs down the track warrant pulling the valve covers and checking the lash on their solid lifter cams. Or sometimes its people that want to look cool and like a racer.
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Sep 14, 2023 15:44
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LloydDobler posted:Do get that oil leak fixed though, they hate that. Leaks shorten the day for everyone. This, and also it must have been a fairly substantial leak. Tech inspectors before they let you onto the track don't usually get picky about things that don't look like they could be actively dripping while running, so if they sent him home after doing a pass that was a lot of fluid down.
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Sep 14, 2023 16:27
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LloydDobler posted:the only responsible place to really taste what it can do will be at a track Yeah, my wife is already talking about bringing it out to Gingerman. Nidhg00670000 posted:The T-bolt valve fasteners are for quicker access, some people are concerned that repeated hard runs down the track warrant pulling the valve covers and checking the lash on their solid lifter cams. That makes sense, there was a lot of documentation on lash adjustments in the stack of paperwork. IOwnCalculus posted:This, and also it must have been a fairly substantial leak. Tech inspectors before they let you onto the track don't usually get picky about things that don't look like they could be actively dripping while running, so if they sent him home after doing a pass that was a lot of fluid down. The leak is 2nd hand info so I don't know anything other than "he was kicked out for leaking oil on the track" but yeah I'm sure it was substantial.
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Sep 14, 2023 18:11
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How likely is it that the missing dipstick tube and the severe oil leak that got him kicked off the track are related?
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Sep 14, 2023 23:35
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boxen posted:How likely is it that the missing dipstick tube and the severe oil leak that got him kicked off the track are related? That's a really good question. It seems to be pretty common to not have a dipstick tube, like if you want one you have to pull the oil pan and drill out a cover from the inside. I'll have to track down the exact location of where it should be and see if there's a hole. Mosquitos are pretty oppressive in Michigan right now so I haven't had much time outside other than to take some pics and get some repairs done to the trailer. e: I just realized I didn't include a full pic of the monster engine 
two_beer_bishes fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Sep 14, 2023 |
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Sep 14, 2023 23:55
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If it was a crate motor, they might not have installed one due to a wide variety of customer requirements. I don't know much about big block Mopars, but I don't THINK a stroker crank causes dipstick issues until you get really silly? Depending on bore/stroke, another possible source of the leak is external oil lines from the pan to the pump... once you get beyond a certain stroke length on a 440, the crank starts interfering with the oil pickup tube, and the solution is to drill two holes in the side of the oil pan and run lines external lines to the oil pump mounted on the side of the block. From what I've read, that being done badly or being sealed badly is the cause of many, many stroker 440 oil leaks, and I think I see that setup in your engine picture taken from the side. Another shot in the dark - I'd be surprised if a drag car didn't have a line lock, maybe that's what the mystery switch is for? No idea what "CC" would stand for, unlikely that a track car has cruise control and it doesn't have an electric radiator fan.
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Sep 15, 2023 00:14
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I'm not sure, but that evacuator line (or its predecessor!) from the valve cover looks like it could have melted off on the header. Doubt that woulda blasted THAT much oil out, but still it needs a look.
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Sep 15, 2023 03:09
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Aaaaand subscribed. This should be fun.
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Sep 15, 2023 03:40
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The 440 is the best sounding V8 ever made. Please post a burnout video once you get it running.
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Sep 15, 2023 03:45
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If you can't find the dipstick and don't know how whether or not it has oil in it, just drain the oil to be sure, and then fill it. Then you'll know its got oil and that its fresh. Also change the filter too I guess.
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Sep 15, 2023 12:14
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two_beer_bishes posted:Yeah, my wife is already talking about bringing it out to Gingerman. Is there a drag strip at or near Gingerman raceway or are you taking a drag car to a road course? Either way 
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Sep 15, 2023 13:41
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NitroSpazzz posted:Is there a drag strip at or near Gingerman raceway or are you taking a drag car to a road course? Either way I think they have a strip at Gingerman but I don't know for sure. I'd love to take it on a road course but that's probably not the best idea. We're in SE Michigan so I can't imagine it'll be tough to find a spot to drive it. Ambassadorofsodomy posted:If you can't find the dipstick and don't know how whether or not it has oil in it, just drain the oil to be sure, and then fill it. Yep, that's the plan. Applebees Appetizer posted:The 440 is the best sounding V8 ever made. Please post a burnout video once you get it running. The documents for the transmission specify to do burnouts in 2nd or 3rd gear, and NOT 1st gear. Glad I saw that! Commodore_64 posted:I'm not sure, but that evacuator line (or its predecessor!) from the valve cover looks like it could have melted off on the header. Doubt that woulda blasted THAT much oil out, but still it needs a look. I scratched at that with my fingernail and it barely felt raised so it might just be residue from a sticker or something, no idea. boxen posted:If it was a crate motor, they might not have installed one due to a wide variety of customer requirements. I don't know much about big block Mopars, but I don't THINK a stroker crank causes dipstick issues until you get really silly? Thanks for sharing, that's some good info!
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Sep 15, 2023 14:39
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This is cool as heck. Is the CC switch momentary or a toggle? I agree line lock makes sense, but I feel like I’ve heard of drag cars having a timing retard switch for cold start because they run locked out timing? Maybe seems unlikely here but CC = cold crank?
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Sep 15, 2023 21:36
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two_beer_bishes posted:I scratched at that with my fingernail and it barely felt raised so it might just be residue from a sticker or something, no idea. Yeah it does look pretty rectangular.
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Sep 15, 2023 21:54
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Figured out the CC switch, it's actually "LL" for line lock! Two other hand drawn diagrams had it written more clearly as LL.
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Sep 15, 2023 23:26
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two_beer_bishes posted:The documents for the transmission specify to do burnouts in 2nd or 3rd gear, and NOT 1st gear. Glad I saw that! Yeah, it means your valvebody doesn't have low/reverse band apply (meaning it also doesn't have any engine braking in first gear), this means your low/reverse drum is only held by the overrunning clutch, aka "the sprag". If/when the sprag fails, the low drum will go to roughly 2x engine RPM, and if you still have a stock low drum in there it will immediately experience a rapid unscheduled disassembly. Not a good time.
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Sep 15, 2023 23:44
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Tinkered with the car a little today. I finished replacing the valve cover nuts with the T-bar things that the PO had started to install. I found the spot in the block where the dipstick should be and it is blocked off, so that answers that question. I jacked up the back end of the car to try to minimize the transmission leak but I need to get the trans blanket off so I can get a better view of the transmission case.
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Sep 17, 2023 18:45
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Currently draining the old oil. Holy poo poo the magnetic drain plug was dirty, I don't think it was ever cleaned! The oil coming out looked pretty good but still not having any idea how much was in there, I still feel better doing a full oil/filter change. Dirty  Clean  I got all four corners up the in the air to give myself more room. After poking around for a few minutes I noticed something. Looks like I'm going down the same path as my uncle before he stopped working on this.  I removed the transmission mount and crossbar to try to wiggle the blanket out but it feels like it's still attached to something so I'm assuming it goes around the shifter. I'm going to put that off for now. There's been a slow but steady drip of transmission fluid that isn't coming from the rear seal so let's follow the drops! Oh  gently caress, that's a crack  When we initially pulled the car out of my uncle's garage and started going through things to see what parts and tools we wanted to take, anything clean or new caught my eye and ended up in the pile. Thankfully this thing was sitting nearby!  I don't know if the oil seal that's installed is new so I'm going to replace that while it's out along with anything else I can determine to be a wear item. I found some helpful parts diagrams and even a PDF of the service manual so once I get a parts list together and ordered, I'm hoping it'll go together easily. Any idea who made this aluminum radiator? It's probably not very important to know but I'd like to have an idea if anyone recognizes the name or logo. 
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Sep 19, 2023 18:16
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two_beer_bishes posted:
Looks like Northern Radiator. https://www.northernradiator.com/
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Sep 19, 2023 18:35
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boxen posted:Looks like Northern Radiator. Sure does, thanks!
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Sep 19, 2023 18:37
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It’s these guys: https://www.northernradiator.com/ When I pass on there will also be a large collection of broken cars and the replacement parts in boxes. e:f,b
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Sep 19, 2023 18:38
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Big Taint posted:When I pass on there will also be a large collection of broken cars and the replacement parts in boxes. The AI credo in a nutshell.
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Sep 20, 2023 16:36
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I drained the trans to reduce spillage when I remove the extension housing and finally had enough room to pull the transmission blanket out. I took out the bolts holding the housing on and wiggled it a little to make a gap for any remaining fluid to drain out.  Parts are on order for installing the replacement housing so besides removing the broken housing, I probably won't get much else done for a few days. From what I can tell the cars of this era didn't usually come with expansion/overflow tanks, and this is an aftermarket radiator, but should something be hooked up to this? 
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Sep 20, 2023 21:08
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two_beer_bishes posted:From what I can tell the cars of this era didn't usually come with expansion/overflow tanks, and this is an aftermarket radiator, but should something be hooked up to this? At that point it's more of an overflow, or at least that's how it is on my old 50's Chevy truck. However, that also has a large tank on the top of the radiator, so that the empty volume when cold doesn't take volume from the finned area. On your vehicle, it seems like you should have an expansion tank so that you don;t run the rad partially empty. Hopefully someone with direct knowledge chimes in, but that's my reasoning.
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Sep 20, 2023 23:50
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"Just puke the extra on the ground if it's hot" was normal practice then, yes. But there's no reason you can't hook up an overflow to that and treat it like a newer car. Hell, track tech would be much happier with that.
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Sep 21, 2023 06:14
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IOwnCalculus posted:Hell, track tech would be much happier with that. This alone is why I'm surprised this car doesn't already have an overflow.
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Sep 21, 2023 13:18
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Hahaha
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Sep 21, 2023 17:33
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That's not supposed to be there is it?
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Sep 21, 2023 17:53
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two_beer_bishes posted:Hahaha  Is that from the installed trans or is that the spare?
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Sep 21, 2023 20:13
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Ambassadorofsodomy posted:That's not supposed to be there is it? Less than ideal, I think Boaz MacPhereson posted:
This one just came off the trans, the spare is in much better shape. First shipment of rockauto stuff should arrive tomorrow so I should be able to get everything back together tomorrow or Saturday. I really need to organize the paperwork I have. Right now it's all crammed together in a paper grocery bag. It would be helpful if I had an engine folder, transmission folder, etc so I could go right to what I need but there isn't much motivation for that right now. So I need to dig through and find the engine paperwork that says how much oil I should put in, same with the transmission. If I can get everything buttoned up this weekend I think we'll be ready to fire it up!
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Sep 21, 2023 20:48
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two_beer_bishes posted:Less than ideal, I think Well that's some good news. I don't really know poo poo about Mopars but I'm excited to follow the thread.
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Sep 21, 2023 21:04
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Two new issues: I can't get the old oil filter off, even with a strap wrench thing. The radiator has a leak. New tail housing seal showed up today so I'm hoping I can get the transmission stuff all back together and install the driveshaft. I forgot to pick up transmission fluid while I was out but I have to go back to return the rental tool from O'Reilly's anyway. I was really hoping to get this thing started this weekend but I don't think that's going to happen with the radiator leak even if I can get this drat oil filter off.
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Sep 22, 2023 19:47
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two_beer_bishes posted:I was really hoping to get this thing started this weekend but I don't think that's going to happen with the radiator leak Obvious suggestion: you can start an engine with no water in it and let it run for a bit (i dunno, maybe up to half a minute?) without much danger I think, although I'd remove the water pump belt if there is no water at all in the engine. If you can keep the coolant in the block (cap off the radiator hoses or whatever) that'd give you more time yet. You'd at least be able to start the engine and listen for any horrible noises.
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Sep 22, 2023 19:57
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boxen posted:Obvious suggestion: you can start an engine with no water in it and let it run for a bit (i dunno, maybe up to half a minute?) without much danger I think, although I'd remove the water pump belt if there is no water at all in the engine. If you can keep the coolant in the block (cap off the radiator hoses or whatever) that'd give you more time yet. That's a good point and got me thinking, why not just fill the system with water and let 'er rip since it'll be a temporary fill anyway. Boaz MacPhereson posted:I don't really know poo poo about Mopars That makes two of us but I'm slowly picking things up as I go
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Sep 22, 2023 21:49
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| # ? Apr 28, 2024 19:07 |
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Use a pair of chain vice grips on that filter. https://www.kmstools.com/vise-grip-locking-chain-pliers.html These MFs.
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Sep 22, 2023 23:59
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