Weka posted:

Oh dang that is a ridiculous amount of portfolios. Like I said I would be happy if it was mentioned rather than say attacking strangely only Iran and Afghanistan under the Taliban's womens rights. There's like 50 countries with worse gender equality than Iran! It's pretty obviously just reheated American propaganda.

BuckyDoneGun posted:

A journalist, trailing the prime minister on the campaign trail, a week out from an election? Huge if true.

exmarx posted:

these are golriz's portfolios, do you really think she could be across everything happening in all of them


the budget is an all-or-nothing deal. do you think voting against it because it included budget for nzdf (which could also be appropriated by cabinet outside the budget process) would have been worth (a) not having any effect on the result, and (b) losing all the influence they have within government

Weka posted:

It's her job to know this. If the Green's defense spokesperson doesn't even know where our troops are deployed they are worse than useless and not likely to get better. Do you think she also didn't know about NZDF deployments to Afghanistan when she voted for the budget to support them?

None of them have and "this one thing" as you call it is significantly contributing to hundreds of thousands of people starving to death.
I have been clear that every party in the NZ parliament is awful in this specific way, supporting of mass murder by America's coalition of Hitlerites. Doing this means the greens are not left wing by any metric. Vote for whichever neoliberal you like, but you should know that's what they are.

Weka posted:

By this metric Ernst Rohm was left wing. However I think it's possible to have a party in this country that is opposed to America's wars.

Oh dang that is a ridiculous amount of portfolios. Like I said I would be happy if it was mentioned rather than say attacking strangely only Iran and Afghanistan under the Taliban's womens rights. There's like 50 countries with worse gender equality than Iran! It's pretty obviously just reheated American propaganda.

Weka posted:

Tell the greens you won't vote for them until they change.

Venomous posted:

I'm assuming that both Labour and National have been clamouring over each other to seem more pro-Israel today

exmarx posted:

bike tory posted:

holy poo poo "There is no justification for these attacks"?? gently caress, Luxo is going to ruin what's left of our international reputation.

exmarx posted:

labour sticks to the un line.

bike tory posted:

lol at going straight to the nazi party to try and make a point, but yeah I guess it does kind of illustrate the issue with the labels of left and right as you're using them.

The way you're defining left and right don't make any sense in a NZ context, just as they don't in a Nazi Germany context. A party that's genuinely left wing, like in the global and historical context that it seems like you're using, wouldn't make it into parliament in NZ. So why would people who hold uncompromisingly to those beliefs waste time trying to form a party and get votes at all, over more direct action, activism, community building, etc? Like I say this as someone who is a member of an organisation like that, with enough members to form a political party. It would be a huge waste of our capacity and resources to do so because we aren't willing to compromise on our kaupapa.

That said, yes, I agree a party that opposes America's wars is genuinely possible and I think the Greens have been pretty consistent in doing so. Teanau Tuiono has done a lot of work against the militarisation of space via our burgeoning space industry, for example. Golriz regularly speaks out in parliament against American wars, attends and speaks at rallies against American wars, and engages with community groups like peace action and Palestine Solidarity Network Aotearoa and poo poo. She talks about Iran a lot because she's an Iranian refugee. Exmarx has already linked you the Greens' global affairs and trade policies which are mostly about demilitarisation and specifically mention rejecting AUKUS.

You haven't even established what their stance is on the specific military action you have a problem with, and when I suggested you engage with the party you said it wasn't your job to do so. At least be consistent!

BuckyDoneGun posted:

What if I just don't care?

Progressive JPEG posted:

does it ever get exhausting searching for new things to be angry about every day

Weka posted:

If you don't care about hundreds of thousands of people being starved to death then gently caress you, you are a huge piece of poo poo I guess.

Weka posted:

Afaik Hone Harawira was genuinely left, atleast as far as opposing yankee imperialism, so I think you are wrong that there's no electoral path.
I think I have established that the greens don't really have a public stance on the CMF and I don't think having a private stance that is bottom of their priority list makes a difference.

If Ghahraman talks about Iran simply because she is from there, why is she also focused on women's rights in Afghanistan only after the Taliban came back to power? Womens rights sucked there under the occupation too. The quisling government there under Karzai passed a law saying you could starve your missus if she wouldn't root you for instance. Instead we have crap like this in parliament, just naked targeting of America's enemies whilst ignoring the 50 countries who according to the UN have worse women's rights than Iran.

https://twitter.com/golrizghahraman/status/1694232606035096018?t=Fjg8gQAaTXRvx25wKtY2pQ&s=19

I'm not sure somebody who bemoans the toppling of the Shah and says her heart is broken by Hamas' recent actions is really the anti imperialist crusader you think. I guess those Palestinians should have had a peaceful protest.

If you don't care about hundreds of thousands of people being starved to death then gently caress you, you are a huge piece of poo poo I guess.

I'm angry about the same thing every day. It's incredibly easy to find new facets of it though, so not really exhausting. Heck tools of yankee imperialism like Ghahraman just post that poo poo out!

bike tory posted:

For the record I don't think Golriz is a particularly effective or strong advocate for many of the causes that she champions, and I wouldn't describe her as an anti-imperialist crusader. She has a very Al-Jazeera world view on American wars. You're also probably half right about Afghanistan, she's only objecting to women's rights violations there only after the regime change because it's been in the media, which in turn has an almost entirely US-centric world view. But you're suggesting she's a Nazi and an American puppet when, at worst, she's simply not as well-informed as you'd like on the issues that matter to you. Her values are consistently in the right place.

Again, expecting or demanding ideological purity from a broadly social democratic political party in a country like NZ is just pointless. The entire parliament is illegitimate, and the country is built on imperialist land theft that we still aren't capable of reckoning with. What do you really think is capable through parliamentary democracy in a context like this?

I spend a couple of months every three years campaigning for the Greens because IMO they're about as good as we're going to get in parliament, and they help to shift public opinion in a positive direction. But otherwise I focus my energy on actual activist pursuits. I'd strongly recommend you do the same rather than frothing about how our handful of left-leaning politicians are Nazis or American imperialist scum. Especially when like half of the next parliament will be openly and unapologetically so.

It's also very funny that you raise Hone Harawira as an example, because he compromised on almost all of his values to side with a German libertarian and it cost him his political career. He's been a much more effective advocate for various good causes since he left parliament.

Solus posted:

Ankylosaurus tied with Allosaurus

Weka posted:

I do not think calling for increased sanctions indicates values being in the right place. I'm not suggesting she knows she is an American tool, but that doesn't really help. Her and the rest of the greens function is to set the limits of discourse. That's why I like to froth about it. If the putative far left supports all these actions against America's enemies, then they're more likely to be seen as good and just by left leaning types.

I don't ask for ideological purity, to me it seems obvious that the Taliban has had a more positive impact on the world than the nz greens, and I don't share much in the way of ideology with them.

Harawira tanking his electoral career by compromising his values seems to support my position that there is a space in parliament for meaningfully left politicians.

To make another nazi era comparison, you would hardly say Horthy's Hungary was good just because of it's industrialization and land reform policies even though they probably made a more meaningful difference to the lives of the working poor than anything proposed by the greens would. It's the meaningful support of great evil that sort of makes all that moot.

Weka posted:

I don't ask for ideological purity, to me it seems obvious that the Taliban has had a more positive impact on the world than the nz greens, and I don't share much in the way of ideology with them.

exmarx posted:

in one of the worse islands

Solus posted:

Ankylosaurus tied with Allosaurus

exmarx posted:

pachycephalosaurus

Ghostlight posted:

what's ur favourite dinosaur

exmarx posted:

shut da gently caress up