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Aphrodite posted:There are other teams besides Vancouver. It's right up there with the worst trades ever made. Are you trying to suggest it somehow isn't?
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Oct 11, 2023 14:59
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https://twitter.com/NJDevils/status/1712105862636986449 I'm shocked that this ended up working out.
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Oct 11, 2023 15:03
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mcmagic posted:https://twitter.com/NJDevils/status/1712105862636986449 Really? The players and Fitz love him and he's clearly working for the team right now. It didn't cross my mind at all that he would leave.
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Oct 11, 2023 15:04
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fawning deference posted:Really? The players and Fitz love him and he's clearly working for the team right now. It didn't cross my mind at all that he would leave. I'm saying from when they hired him. After last year you knew he was sticking around.
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Oct 11, 2023 15:10
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ThinkTank posted:It's right up there with the worst trades ever made. Are you trying to suggest it somehow isn't? Kinda mind boggling someone would suggest Vancouver is being over discussed when talking about bad trades
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Oct 11, 2023 15:13
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mcmagic posted:I'm saying from when they hired him. After last year you knew he was sticking around. Oh yeah for sure. I thought he would be fired before last season.
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Oct 11, 2023 15:36
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You guys are going to have such egg on your face when the Blackhawks win the Stanley Cup.
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Oct 11, 2023 15:54
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Oilers are back baby
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Oct 11, 2023 15:58
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ThinkTank posted:None of those trades come close to the crippling and enduring cap implications of the OEL trade, and that doesn't even include the fact they offloaded a top ten pick as well. The OEL trade was terrible the moment it was completed and in just two years later is pretty easily the worst transaction of the salary cap era. Don't tell desperate men they have to make the playoffs to save their job. Just fire them and start anew. they actually came out of that trade capspace positive, if you think of it as those dead bodies dumped for OEL+space, and the picks for Garland, it's not horrifically lopsided https://twitter.com/CapFriendly/status/1418685614287896578?s=20 like it's a bad trade but it wasn't singularly crippling so much as a part of the continued mismanagement of the team For my money nothing will ever touch how bad the Erat for Forsberg trade was
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Oct 11, 2023 16:13
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I forgot they retained less than a mil on OELs salary lmao. Nothing more dangerous than a GM of a mediocre team desperately fighting for his job
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Oct 11, 2023 16:17
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Good Soldier Svejk posted:they actually came out of that trade capspace positive, if you think of it as those dead bodies dumped for OEL+space, and the picks for Garland, it's not horrifically lopsided Eriksson, Roussel and Beagle had one year to free agency. OEL had 7. Two years after the trade was completed, the Canucks executed the most expensive buyout in league history on OEL so the Canucks will take a cap penalty of $2-4m a year until 2031 as a result. With the inevitable retention on the Garland deal the Canucks will likely be paying $6m a year during Petey/Hughes prime on dead cap as a direct result of that trade. Did I also mention they they GAVE UP THE 9TH OVERALL PICK FOR THE PRIVLEDGE TO DO SO. Remember, this trade also made it necessary for them to bridge Pettersson instead of signing him to a max deal like he wanted. He's now considering leaving the team entirely. If you look at the trade as assets in/assets out it was bad but mostly fine. It's the cap implications and knock on effects that make it so singularly terrible. The Canucks got little to nothing from the players acquired, did not reach the postseason in the years they had them and will hamstring the team in the years they have some tiny hope of success. It was so bad. Just unforgiveably so. There's a reason that Benning has not been able to find any work in an NHL front office since he was canned.
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Oct 11, 2023 16:26
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Ryan Reaves for Sundqvist and a first lol
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Oct 11, 2023 16:40
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rex rabidorum vires posted:Ryan Reaves for Sundqvist and a first lol Marino and Matheson for a 3rd round pick, Ty Smith, and $2 million in dead cap worth of Jeff Petry stings more
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Oct 11, 2023 16:46
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Florida trading Reilly Smith to Vegas for a 4th rounder and an agreement that Vegas would take Jonathon Marchessault in the expansion draft.
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Oct 11, 2023 17:12
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The Golden Man posted:Oilers are back baby
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Oct 11, 2023 17:17
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Sheldon Keefe is always saying things like “I dunno who the head coach of the Maple Leafs is but he didn’t do a very good job last year” https://twitter.com/mikeystephens81/status/1712124146241445965?s=46&t=HQKtcRjDK4S81BLV4tbVnw
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Oct 11, 2023 17:24
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Honestly, as much as ThinkTank can be a downer over the Canucks, I do agree that the OEL trade is probably one of the top 10 worst trades in NHL history, just for what it did to tie up the Canucks in terms of cap space instead of just letting the poo poo deals expire.
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Oct 11, 2023 17:29
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HookShot posted:Honestly, as much as ThinkTank can be a downer over the Canucks, I do agree that the OEL trade is probably one of the top 10 worst trades in NHL history, just for what it did to tie up the Canucks in terms of cap space instead of just letting the poo poo deals expire. It's one bad player and a couple million dead dollars for the next few years with $5 million of new space coming anyhow it's not like Minnesota with $14 million in dead cap the next two years (~$13m last season and still made the playoffs) Like it's fine to want to point to an issue and say "if only this hadn't happened" but that's just not the case, the canucks were loving up all over the place in all kinds of ways for years, signing bad contracts and trading for lovely players One different butterfly wing flap would not have unfucked their current situation
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Oct 11, 2023 17:35
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Good Soldier Svejk posted:It's one bad player and a couple million dead dollars for the next few years with $5 million of new space coming anyhow It's not a few years, it's 8 years of dead cap that effectively wipes away any growth in the cap for the Canucks. There's some speculation involved with things like Pettersson resigning but he was publicly very in favour of a long term deal and Benning admitted they didn't have the cap space to get it done, which was directly as a result of the OEL deal. Benning thought he was acquiring a top defenceman, he called him the team's #1. The guy could barely hold down an NHL spot. That's a disastrous failure of pro scouting then you have the cap stuff on top. Assuming Garland's return is minimal (which it will be), just two years on the Canucks will have nothing to show for that trade aside from $2.5-4.5m of dead cap over the next eight years. The Minnesota buyouts were insane, don't get me wrong. At least they didn't give up a top ten pick to make them.
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Oct 11, 2023 17:44
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Point is, if your #1 player is asking for term and you believe in him, you find a way to make the money fit (even if it means getting rid of another asset, there are always places you can stash a few million) It's not just "oh we're a little short this year but we'll definitely get you next time" they also clearly didn't believe Pettersson was going to be worth what he was asking and that they'd get him long term at a better number later. Just like with the OEL trade, their evaluation was off and that bit them twice as hard after the fact because Pettersson knows he wasn't valued and the organization has been crashing facefirst into mountainside after mountainside expecting him to grin and hop on the next plane.
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Oct 11, 2023 17:50
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I mean don't get me wrong the Canucks very much made other lovely and dumb organizational decisions. But this specific one did hamstring them for years with consequences that are still ongoing.
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Oct 11, 2023 17:53
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A throwback, but we gotta mention the Isles trading Chara for Alexei Yashin if we're talking worst trades. I'm sure all two of the Sens fans here would disagree though!
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Oct 11, 2023 17:54
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ThinkTank posted:It's not a few years, it's 8 years of dead cap that effectively wipes away any growth in the cap for the Canucks. There's some speculation involved with things like Pettersson resigning but he was publicly very in favour of a long term deal and Benning admitted they didn't have the cap space to get it done, which was directly as a result of the OEL deal. Benning thought he was acquiring a top defenceman, he called him the team's #1. The guy could barely hold down an NHL spot. That's a disastrous failure of pro scouting then you have the cap stuff on top. Assuming Garland's return is minimal (which it will be), just two years on the Canucks will have nothing to show for that trade aside from $2.5-4.5m of dead cap over the next eight years. The Minnesota buyouts were indeed insane, but also turned out to be a good move. Suter and Parise would still be trying to play, and they'd still be boat anchors on 7m aav each. The buyout makes sense from a position of replacing them with younger and more capable players. Boldy has come in up front, and now Brock Faber is taking the spot in the back with Dumba also gone. The squeeze is painful sure. What would be more painful is signing Suter to 7 year deal, claiming he's going to keep being a #1 D, and doing it for a lot of money. The OEL/Garland move is so much worse than the 13 year contracts that Fletcher signed. Minnesota got 7 years of decent to good play out of those contracts, they were just too long. Vancouver didn't get 7 minutes of good play out of the OEL contract. I'd hate to be waiting for the better part of a decade for the cap penalty to go away, 4 years was bad enough. Definitely one of the worst deals in a long time. Florida's deal with Vegas for the expansion draft is right up there too. RO'R to St Louis was right up there until Tage Thompson started to light it up two seasons ago. The Cam Neely + a 1st round to Boston wasn't great either, but doesn't even come close to as bad as the OEL trade.
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Oct 11, 2023 18:11
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There are some pretty horrendous trades out there. Thornton for Sturm, Stuart and Primeau Luongo for Bertuzzi, Allen and Auld Kovalchuk to the Devils for nothing Naslund for Stojanov Gilmour for a whole whack of dudes who did nothing For the past fifteen years we've had the salary cap, so there's the added wrinkle of finances. A trade can be okay from the perspective of the pieces involved, but have to be weighed against the opportunity cost of the cap considerations. A lopsided trade with neglible long term cap issues is bad but navigable. A somewhat less unbalanced trade with lots of associated cap rot is what kills teams. ThinkTank fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Oct 11, 2023 |
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Oct 11, 2023 18:12
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https://twitter.com/llysowski/status/1712125413843980600?s=46&t=ZmcWuigp8va-srUE4rOQ8Q I’m cautiously optimistic for the home opener tomorrow night.
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Oct 11, 2023 18:13
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Prime Jaromir Jagr for Kris Beech and some things apparently called "Ross Lupaschuk" and "Michal Sivek" is a standout Great Moment in Spectacularly Bad Trades
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Oct 11, 2023 18:18
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McDonagh and Miller to TBL was pretty bad. So was Zibanejad to NYR
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Oct 11, 2023 18:28
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Small potatoes but Fleischman and Weise for Danault and a second (Romanov) was very funny and seemed really bad at the time too. On the other hand I remember how pissed I was at the Gomez trade.
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Oct 11, 2023 18:42
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Joe Thornton for Marco Sturm, Brad Stuart and Wayne Primeau
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Oct 11, 2023 18:52
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I feel like in amongst all the dumping on Florida's dealings with Vegas around the expansion draft, a few other beauties are forgotten: The Buffalo Sabres traded their sixth-round pick in the 2017 NHL Entry Draft in exchange for Vegas selecting William Carrier. The Anaheim Ducks traded Shea Theodore in exchange for Vegas selecting Clayton Stoner. The Minnesota Wild traded Alex Tuch in exchange for Vegas selecting Erik Haula and a conditional third-round pick in the 2017 or 2018 NHL Entry Draft. The Columbus Blue Jackets traded their first-round pick in the 2017 NHL Entry Draft, a second-round pick in the 2019 NHL Entry Draft and David Clarkson in exchange for Vegas selecting William Karlsson. The Pittsburgh Penguins traded their second-round pick in the 2020 NHL Entry Draft in exchange for Vegas selecting Marc-Andre Fleury. The Buffalo one was arguably not so egregious (a late round draft pick to select a 4th line player doesn't seem that bad, even if he did turn out to be a really drat good 4th line player) but I included it cause I can't imagine who the 2017 Sabres were protecting being worth that Starsfan fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Oct 11, 2023 |
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Oct 11, 2023 18:54
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Griffen Reinhart
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Oct 11, 2023 18:59
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The best part of the Theodore trade was it was done to protect Sami Vatanen who the Ducks dumped for a 3rd round pick a couple years later. God that expansion draft was amazing for Vegas.
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Oct 11, 2023 19:07
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Starsfan posted:I feel like in amongst all the dumping on Florida's dealings with Vegas around the expansion draft, a few other beauties are forgotten: Karlsson projected as a fourth liner who could PK before exploding out of nowhere in Vegas. Anaheim gave up on him as well for James Wisniewski. Protecting Josh Anderson and Joonas Korpisalo was the right call at thr time.
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Oct 11, 2023 19:17
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https://twitter.com/charlieo_conn/status/1712138940323443039?t=BpUioucX6VIMLokwRoqE-Q&s=19 Based
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Oct 11, 2023 19:54
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The Bruins trading a 21-year-old Seguin for Eriksson and some lotto tickets is the biggest trade I can remember being genuinely baffled by. Even with Loui having some good years and Reilly Smith panning out, it was so stupid that they traded their potential franchise level center (debatable if he hit those heights, but he was a great player for a long time and he's still decent now) because he was 21 and liked to party remains one of the dumbest things Chiarelli ever did. It's extra funny because, while he's had injury problems, there's no guarantee things would've turned out the same way, they'd have the same roster, he'd even still be a Bruin, etc., Boston could really use Seguin on the roster now and for big stretches of the past decade or so.
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Oct 11, 2023 20:00
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morningdrew posted:Joe Thornton for Marco Sturm, Brad Stuart and Wayne Primeau That trade is what freed up cap space to sign Chara.
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Oct 11, 2023 20:03
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https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4044316&pagenumber=1&perpage=40 It's the regular season I made a new thread
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Oct 11, 2023 20:06
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Arabian Jesus posted:https://twitter.com/charlieo_conn/status/1712138940323443039?t=BpUioucX6VIMLokwRoqE-Q&s=19 hell yea i didn't expect so many players and such to be speaking about how dumb the "ban" is, so that's cool to see
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Oct 11, 2023 20:06
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