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Same with Jota’s red - the first yellow was bollocks but you just…don’t gently caress around when you’re on a yellow card.
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Oct 3, 2023 16:37
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Thanks Ants posted:Same with Jota’s red - the first yellow was bollocks but you just…don’t gently caress around when you’re on a yellow card. It really was incredibly dumb and naive, especially in a game where the officiating had already proven to be bad and inconsistent
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Oct 3, 2023 18:23
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 Such discipline
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Oct 3, 2023 18:28
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Slotducks posted:
oh hell yeah straight into my veins
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Oct 3, 2023 18:30
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Loving Africa Chaps posted:This is all starting to feel like that time Liverpool fans were going to call the police because Virgil was on the wrong end of a heavy tackle. remember the time that liverpool fans organised a giant tifo campaign to try and get someone released from bulgarian prison on the grounds that he was a good scouse lad who loved his mum and that all the witnesses to him smashing a paving slab over a waiter's head were bulgarian and therefore untrustworthy
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Oct 3, 2023 18:31
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Slotducks posted:
keep going I'm almost there
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Oct 3, 2023 18:33
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Maybe I got influenced by Neville’s commentary but I don’t think the Jones red card was a particularly clear one. He kinda slipped over the ball. I don’t know if the rules are particularly clear about this scenario being an out of control red card offense.
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Oct 3, 2023 18:34
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Here it is. GG https://www.premierleague.com/news/3718057?sf269410963=1
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Oct 3, 2023 18:36
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So pretty much as everyone except Liverpool fans expected - an honest mistake caused by a piss poor system in a high stress environment. The system should never allow a mistake to happen that easily.
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Oct 3, 2023 18:37
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Vegetable posted:Maybe I got influenced by Neville’s commentary but I don’t think the Jones red card was a particularly clear one. He kinda slipped over the ball. I don’t know if the rules are particularly clear about this scenario being an out of control red card offense. i'm probably more sympathetic than most spurs fans in thinking it's very much an orange card (and a few inches/degrees difference it could be bissouma off), but slipping over the ball is a form of losing control no?
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Oct 3, 2023 18:38
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lmao
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Oct 3, 2023 18:39
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perhaps the var rules should say that it would be okay to go back and give the goal even though play already restarted since within 30 seconds they knew that they had made a colossal mistake and nothing had changed in the match at that point
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Oct 3, 2023 18:41
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Vegetable posted:Maybe I got influenced by Neville’s commentary but I don’t think the Jones red card was a particularly clear one. He kinda slipped over the ball. I don’t know if the rules are particularly clear about this scenario being an out of control red card offense. dangerous tackle = straight red. its not rocket science
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Oct 3, 2023 18:42
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lol at the loose nature of a VAR check just a bunch of pals talking it through with no real structure
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Oct 3, 2023 18:43
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quote:The VAR team then gave consideration as to whether the game could be stopped at that point, however the VAR and AVAR concluded that the VAR protocol within the Laws of the Game would not permit that to happen, and they decided intervention was not possible as play had restarted. "Should we let them know we hosed up and are aware of it, and also could fix it now with no further issue?" "Nah probably be fine. Who's gonna notice. Pass the crisps"
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Oct 3, 2023 18:43
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Vegetable posted:Maybe I got influenced by Neville’s commentary but I don’t think the Jones red card was a particularly clear one. He kinda slipped over the ball. I don’t know if the rules are particularly clear about this scenario being an out of control red card offense. He "slips" over the ball in as far as he makes contact with the ball but he's super high and not even close to controlling it. Edit: also anyone involved with high stakes communication will be tearing their hair out at the state of VAR Comms. It's so simple and obvious to use clear, standardised communication. E.g. "offside check complete, the player is onside. Repeat, the player is onside, the goal should be awarded". Loving Africa Chaps fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Oct 3, 2023 |
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Oct 3, 2023 18:44
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Slotducks posted:lol at the loose nature of a VAR check just a bunch of pals talking it through with no real structure i like how the AVARs call him "Daz"
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Oct 3, 2023 18:44
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Jesus christ on a bike just have the VAR decision read back to the ref use a few more words, you don't need to save 0.5s Just lol that the VAR boys are slapping each other on the back for a job well done
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Oct 3, 2023 18:47
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New Character Unlocked: AVAR
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Oct 3, 2023 18:47
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the sex ghost posted:"Should we let them know we hosed up and are aware of it, and also could fix it now with no further issue?" If you listen to the actual audio it's the sheer terror of a man realising they hosed up and can't undo it.
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Oct 3, 2023 18:47
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TheRat posted:If you listen to the actual audio it's the sheer terror of a man realising they hosed up and can't undo it. that's the thing though, I think everyone would understand if they did actually undo it. They knew within seconds that they'd made a huge mistake and I think it would be reasonable to stop the game, have the ref announce that there was a miscommunication with the VAR and the goal really was onside, and award it. People would complain but I can't imagine they would have complained more than they did by letting the huge error stand
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Oct 3, 2023 18:51
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If they undid it, they would be breaking the rules on purpose. There's no going back from that. It would be bedlam and lawsuits and all the stuff Liverpool fans pretended this would be.
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Oct 3, 2023 18:53
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how long after play has restarted should VAR be able to award a previously missed legitimate goal?
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Oct 3, 2023 18:54
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I didn’t think this would be my reaction, but I feel bad for the VAR team. The whole system is way more frenetic and stressful than I expected. It’s hosed up that the system relies on these imprecise norms of communication and that there’s no process for rolling back a miscommunicated VAR decision. It’s also clear that this is all exacerbated because everyone is trying to be as quick as possible — this is what the viewers want. Hence the use of verbal shorthands and the zero hesitation in restarting the game. I genuinely don’t think Darren England is to be blamed here. My heart sank when he said there’s nothing he could do after the game restarted. We’re laying all the blame on him but this same situation, if nothing is changed, will absolutely happen to someone else; it’s only a matter of time. The blame has to be on the people designing the system.
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Oct 3, 2023 18:54
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It’s incredible that they don’t have a proper process for these checks but I guess we might get that now. Having said that, when they realised their mistake they easily could have told the ref to stop play because they had hosed up. They perhaps would’ve gotten a scolding from Webb at their next meeting but everyone else would have accepted it. Then they could have changed the rule book so that rule nazis wouldn’t lose any sleep in the future.
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Oct 3, 2023 18:55
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vyelkin posted:that's the thing though, I think everyone would understand if they did actually undo it. They knew within seconds that they'd made a huge mistake and I think it would be reasonable to stop the game, have the ref announce that there was a miscommunication with the VAR and the goal really was onside, and award it. People would complain but I can't imagine they would have complained more than they did by letting the huge error stand
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Oct 3, 2023 18:55
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Vegetable posted:I didn’t think this would be my reaction, but I feel bad for the VAR team. The whole system is way more frenetic and stressful than I expected. It’s hosed up that the system relies on these imprecise norms of communication and that there’s no process for rolling back a miscommunicated VAR decision. Extremely same. The system is at fault, not the worker who made a minor mistake that turned out to have massive consequences. The system should never have allowed this to happen that easily. I have a massive hate-boner for VAR, but here I can't do anything but feel bad for the guy.
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Oct 3, 2023 18:55
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Yes it really feels like the "don't interrupt play any more than you have to" emphasis has pushed any sort of quality control opportunity out the way
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Oct 3, 2023 18:56
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Absolutely piss poor communication standards from the get go that lets these things slip through the cracks. Absolutely shameful for a league this reputable. ESPECIALLY when there's other sports that have been doing this for a long long time and have set good examples to base your system on.
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Oct 3, 2023 18:58
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I'd be very surprised if the VAR handbook didn't have emphasis on reading out the thing you were checking to the ref and talking them through the process, and it's just got less and less formal as the VAR teams get more comfortable in the role.
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Oct 3, 2023 18:59
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TheRat posted:If they undid it, they would be breaking the rules on purpose. There's no going back from that. It would be bedlam and lawsuits and all the stuff Liverpool fans pretended this would be.
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Oct 3, 2023 19:02
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"I have altered the rules of the game, the IFAB should pray I do not alter them any further" but in like a real shrill and nasally referee voice
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Oct 3, 2023 19:06
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TheRat posted:If they undid it, they would be breaking the rules on purpose. There's no going back from that. It would be bedlam and lawsuits and all the stuff Liverpool fans pretended this would be. it’s also against the rules for a goal to be disallowed when it's onside dumbass
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Oct 3, 2023 19:10
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Xabi posted:“Just following orders” you could say, like Adolph Eichmann. stfu
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Oct 3, 2023 19:16
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would rational* tottenham fans get upset at VAR stopping the game 20 seconds later to award the goal properly?
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Oct 3, 2023 19:19
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Vegetable posted:You’re not thinking about this enough. People would absolutely crucify the refs for breaking the rules in favor of Liverpool while not doing so for other teams. I think that they should do the same thing for any decision where they instantly know they made the wrong one. If a ref sends off the wrong player or disallows a correct goal, the whole point of VAR is to be able to stop play and correct the decision regardless of who the team is. It's pretty stupid that they implemented VAR to correct "clear and obvious errors" made by referees, but now that it turns out that the VAR can also make clear and obvious errors they say whoops our hands are tied those clear and obvious errors have to just stand. It's mind-boggling that this is where we ended up.
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Oct 3, 2023 19:20
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I mean they would be when its clearly onside. This is gonna happen to everyone, soon Spurs will have their turn at the clown circus that is referees in this league.
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Oct 3, 2023 19:21
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honestly having heard the VAR audio for this one and learning that they knew it was wrong like 5 seconds after play was restarted, I'd love to hear the audio for stuff like that disallowed Arsenal goal from last season where they drew the lines on the wrong player, because it would be interesting to learn how quickly they knew that was a mistake
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Oct 3, 2023 19:22
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Vegetable posted:I didn’t think this would be my reaction, but I feel bad for the VAR team. The whole system is way more frenetic and stressful than I expected. It’s hosed up that the system relies on these imprecise norms of communication and that there’s no process for rolling back a miscommunicated VAR decision. The flip side is the pgmol rejected the automated offside system in favour of this nonsense
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Oct 3, 2023 19:25
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Slotducks posted:would rational* tottenham fans get upset at VAR stopping the game 20 seconds later to award the goal properly? Probably not, but there's no procedure for doing it. As poo poo as this situation is and I'd be really annoyed if it was my team (and I was after the Brentford game last season), I also don't think making up new rules is the right fix.
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Oct 3, 2023 19:28
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