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No opinion on crystals, but whichever one wins, you'd better go collect Gran's treasure first.  Shaman kind of exemplifies the issue with wizard's stances imo: there's ways to make tank mage builds work, but none of them involve actually being a wizard, and the rest of wizard's skillset is just damage, so you'd be slotting in an entire secondary just for two mutually exclusive stances and no other real synergies.
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Oct 19, 2023 02:06
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| # ? Apr 29, 2024 12:31 |
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B Delicious monster magic
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Oct 19, 2023 03:19
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Ah I remember that house well. A because we've already gotten two mage classes so far
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Oct 19, 2023 15:53
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IIRC the path to the Earth Bangle is accessible starting from the Delende jump you took to path to the Jewel of Defense. That's how you get to the higher areas of the Seaside Cliffs. Shaman illustrates one of the points of friction in the game: in Hard, you quickly get to a point where Power/Magic Down is essentially obligatory not to get stomped, and there's not too many sources of those debuffs relative to their importance. With Warrior and Shaman, I think that's 2/3 of the options for those debuffs already obtained, so you're going to be using one of those for bosses for at least 50-60% of the game. (There's another debuff source, but it's random debuff debuffing, which doesn't help there.) Warrior having no weapon restrictions does make it more reasonable, but when a Rogue is also obligatory for 80% of the game on Hard and there's no practical replacement for that class, Hard ends up feeling pretty restrictive. But then again there's a surprising number of bosses where you can say "gently caress this" and just juke them into water, so there's that.  A For Not Scholar.
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Oct 19, 2023 17:40
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The Mist Mischief track link seems to 404.
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Oct 19, 2023 18:11
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SIGSEGV posted:The Mist Mischief track link seems to 404. https://on.soundcloud.com/nAZsk Does this link work better?
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Oct 19, 2023 18:15
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Yep, that's perfect.
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Oct 19, 2023 18:51
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I imagine the sweet spot personally to be Hard difficulty, but with the Easier Non-Bosses flag set. The biggest annoyance to me with Hard difficulty wasn't so much the boss fights, but rather that the random enemy encounters could end up being tedious resource drains. Much like with the four job fiesta, the most interesting part to me is solving the problem of the difficult boss fights with the resources at hand, so I appreciate a mode that gives the added challenge of the Hard bosses without turning regular encounters into as much of a slog.
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Oct 19, 2023 20:19
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Definitely going B since I really liked the path to that crystal, and also because the sooner we get Scholar access the better.
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Oct 19, 2023 21:17
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Scholar time.
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Oct 20, 2023 05:27
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The sooner you get Scholar, the less backtracking you have to do.
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Oct 20, 2023 15:34
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I, too, will be voting for Scholar. Also, a thing that I think is worth bringing up is that one of the bullet points is "nothing is permanently missable." So while bringing along someone to scan and someone to steal when fighting bosses helps, because you get that information quickly and can use that item right away, actually buying the things you missed is pretty expensive. Stealing is also useful for dealing with various trash enemies, because keeping stocked on consumables can be a bit of a strain on your wallet. But the talk of "here's debuffs you need" does bring up my one big complaint about this game: there is no generic "item" command available to everybody, so you can't use that as an emergency source of whatever you need. If you want healing, or scanning, or stealing, you must bring someone who has that in their skill sets, and you can bring a maximum of eight (four primary, four secondary).
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Oct 21, 2023 01:11
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MechaCrash posted:Also, a thing that I think is worth bringing up is that one of the bullet points is "nothing is permanently missable." So while bringing along someone to scan and someone to steal when fighting bosses helps, because you get that information quickly and can use that item right away, actually buying the things you missed is pretty expensive. Stealing is also useful for dealing with various trash enemies, because keeping stocked on consumables can be a bit of a strain on your wallet. I was gonna bring this up later when we got to the relevant NPC for it, but yeah. There is actually a mechanic for forgetting or failing to get the SUPER BIG ULTRA IMPORTANT BOSS STEAL or whatever it migth be. MechaCrash posted:But the talk of "here's debuffs you need" does bring up my one big complaint about this game: there is no generic "item" command available to everybody, so you can't use that as an emergency source of whatever you need. If you want healing, or scanning, or stealing, you must bring someone who has that in their skill sets, and you can bring a maximum of eight (four primary, four secondary). I actually kind of like the absence of an Item mechanic, because it's one of the things that keeps a healer relevant, you can't just carry a stack of 99 Elixirs and have Bob Blastymage or Fiona Fightmancer toss them at people's heads or chug them. If you want healing, you actually need to bring someone who can heal, or lifesteal, or something of the sort. In any case, next update is on the way and will come with an exciting challenge for everyone to participate in.
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Oct 21, 2023 01:21
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Update 04: The Mountain Blues  Charity: We're climbing that mountain today, right? Vanessa: After searching Gran's cabin. Tau: I don't know... it gives me a bad vibe. Hamza: I thought you liked spooky stuff. Tau: Stuff can get too spooky.     Vanessa: Oooooh, look out, haunted stairs! Tau: Very funny.   Hamza: Look out, haunted chests, ha ha!    Vanessa: AAAAAAAAAAAH, EMPTY CHESTS, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH Tau: Okay, changed my mind, going in here was a great idea.         Charity: Oh my God it's happening again. It's the goddamn rabbits again. Vanessa: ...it's... it's loot. We have to take it. Charity: You are not picking that up. Vanessa: Too late. Charity: I'm so glad I'm not next to you in the formation.    There's no music in the rest of the cabin, but down here it's just a single ominous echo. Hamza: I don't like this red light. Tau: I don't like the spooky ambience. Vanessa: I don't like that the chests were empty. Charity: I don't like that you picked up that rotting melted head.    Tau: You're not gonna start picking up these bones, too, are you? Vanessa: Well-  Hamza: Looting later, that's a boss! And no, it's not just the lighting, that flame is dark red.      So, Gran is completely unbeatable at the moment. She(it?) can obliterate any character with a single attack and if she's not reduced to half health or less, Regenerate puts her back at max.          There is absolutely no way we can knock off over half her health in three actions, or survive long enough to take more actions than that.     Well, that sucks.  So, being killed by a boss has no consequences except booting you back to your last visited Home Point. If you get killed by a non-boss, it's the same except you also lose some money. Hamza: That's not happening... I guess we weren't meant to go in there yet. Vanessa: Hmmm. I don't know, seems suspicious, we're still in a newbie area. Charity: I'd be good not seeing any more bones for a bit.      The mountain is off to the west, as we approach, a rogue-ish looking fellow bolts along the cliff ridge. Vanessa: Who was that masked man? Tau: Someone who doesn't want to hang out with us, I guess. Charity: I wouldn't want to hang out with people who keep picking up body parts, either.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWtFntVa15k I really like this track, it's light-hearted and really makes me feel like doing jumps and going forwards. The exploration tracks by Vindsvept are some of my favourites in the game.     They don't quite come along as well in screenshots, but there's a falling leaves effect scrolling across the screen which contributes to things feeling autumny, which is one of my favourite seasons.       Hamza: There's that guy again. Tau: Is he following us or are we following him?        Hamza: Hell yeah, new monsters! And we can beat these!      Itachis... does that mean anything interesting? Anyway, they have a decently punchy attack combined with the Barrier that they usually pull on the first turn if they're alone and one of them if there are multiple, making them harder to hurt. At the moment we can't really do enough damage to take them out before at least one of them can attack.   But it's not a tough formation.       I also switch Hamza over to the Broadsword. Theoretically the Cleaver can do more damage if Variance is with us, but rolling low has screwed me over enough times that I don't trust it unless I have a couple of good Luck boosters to go with it.   Vanessa: Maybe he actually likes people who collect body parts, you know, since he keeps showing up. Charity: God, if he does, I vote we push him down the mountain when we catch up.           It's not quite a treasure behind the waterfall, but almost. Since the Broadsword is still a two-hander, it's a shield upgrade for Charity.      Itachitoris... once again, not sure if that means anything, are offensively... inoffensive. But with a multi-target heal ability, they are priority targets any time they show up.  Hamza: Easy peasy so far. We could've done this right when we started!             This bit always makes me worry I'm going to gently caress up my depth perception and walk off the ledge and hit something else on the way down before I hit the water so I don't get reset.    Farther up, the formations start mixing up the locals a bit.            Kamaitachis are the heavy hitters on this mountain. Division Cut seems to have something going on with the math that means it can actually hit harder than 50% in some situations, I'm not sure whether that's because it can crit or because sufficiently low defenses can somehow skew whatever math is used by damage.   Still not a threat when on their own, though.        One of the pinchier formations, but the gang's still not had anyone flattened on the way up so far.         Hidden Tonic Pouch on the right side, it's a bit tricky because the object you pass behind to get to it is below it rather than level with it.     Hamza: Hey, get back here! Tau: Why are you so concerned with catching him? Hamza: I just wanna ask him how he got so much farther than us so fast.    This one's the toughest encounter of the mountain. You've got a healer, a buffer and a bonker, the holy trinity.  Healer's first priority, but that prevents us from drawing properly aggro from the others or smashing them down early.  See? Here Tau eats what's definitely more than half their health in damage, unless I flunked grade school maths. The exclamation mark on the damage number tells us it's a crit, though, so I guess that's the explanation.  Kamaitachi goes down next because I don't want anyone else getting their HP hacked in half.   And of course I don't play it safe enough and the Itachi gets in a lucky hit before I finish it off and flattens Tau. Oh well, he's used to it.Tau: That doesn't make it better!    We're almost at the top now, but... quick detour first.     The Torpid Cuffs are an odd item, they provide a bonus until level 27 at which point they penalize you, but of course well before that point there will be other, superior strength boosters. I'd presume there's some wacky speedrunning strat that focuses on getting these real fast and then using the outsize strength bonus to smack enemies around super hard until you level up a bit.    I love that the spring at the top of the mountain is a tree with the river flowing out of its crown, that's a really cool idea. Just seeing that alone feels like a reward for getting all the way up here.     Hamza: ? I don't get it. Charity: He's a tsundere, just like in one of Tau's Japanese animes. Tau: If you start that again I will log off. Charity: Sorry, sorry. Hamza: No getting upset, there's a dungeon.      It's hard to capture in screenshots or .gif form, but stepping into the entrance, we simply drop down through a vertical shaft through darkness before landing in this ominous dark chamber.   And a couple of steps south, a boss rushes out of the darkness at us!  Charity: Blech, a giant spider. Tau: A giant spider in a dark dungeon is the right kind of spooky.        Sepulchra doesn't really introduce any new mechanics, but like the Canal Beast is a boss that doesn't just have a single solution. There are heavy-hitting physical attacks you can blind but not interrupt, and nasty magical attacks you can interrupt but not blind.     It starts out with one of the nasty spells, blasting over half of Hamza to ash with a single cast.     Not sure how long the fight was going to last, I wanted to hit him with Cures rather than Curenas to save on Tau's MP, but I miscalculated and that meant Hamza didn't have enough health when Sepulchra did the same again. Hamza: Bury me... with my sword... Vanessa: Calm down you big ham.   If an attack's target dies before they go off, a random target on the same side is picked instead. In the case of defensive and healing spells this usually means nothing meaningful happens.     Also note the difference in damage done to Hamza and Charity, a result of mages usually having more anti-magic armor(Resistance) than physical combatants.         After this, Sepulchra lays off the big attacks for some reason. Enemy AI seems partially deterministic and partially random. They seem to start with the same skill 9 times out of 10, and AP-requiring skills they tend to use as often as they have the AP for it, but beyond that you can't always rely on them doing the exact same thing in the same order, which can both be satisfying because it keeps you on your toes or, in cases like this, cuts me a break because Impale and Thunderbolt are scarier than anything else in the big monster's arsenal.    I was briefly scared of Thunderstorm, but as a compromise for it being a multi-target attack, it does far less damage than Thunderbolt.    That was about it, though, bleed and burn stacks melted the last of the HP off quick.  Also note that when the party leader dies, the second in formation order is up front. So Vanessa gets to be in the lead for a bit now.      In the shadows at the south of the Sepulchra chamber, there's another shaft that drops you down to the crystal, but let's see what these nice... people? Have to say, first.    Vanessa: Tutorial ducks? Cute.    Every class has a "master" somewhere in the world, if you bring a character there who has the class maxed, i.e. all skills learned, you get a class seal which is an accessory that massively boosts LP earned for that class, making it easier for someone else to master it. The seals also have another use we won't learn about for a long time yet. But more importantly, crystal!      Welcome to the Scholar! The local Blue Mage. They're a pretty decent primary class for other casters due to their -20% MP cost, which makes it easy to have them hoofing it around learning skills you pass by.  I flip Tau over to a Scholar/Cleric and make Charity a Shaman/Warlock.   Also worth noting that you know NOTHING about any Scholar skills until you learn them. With 20 active skills, they have more than any other class. Their 25-point, 0-PP Learning ability is really the only meaningful thing they have to spend LP's on. Additionally, one of my few issues with Crystal Project is that do the thing I hate where all Scholar skills are learned individually. Tau: Oh, this is cooooooool. Hamza: Hey, I think we saw a bunch of those "rainbow" skills on the way up here. How about we go back and grab them? Vanessa: You had me at grabbing things.   And now a quick montage.       The Scholar skills so far are primarily buffs and heals. Some pretty good buffs and heals, Sun Bath, for instance, is a nice multi-target heal, costing about half as much as the Cleric's multi-target heal even if it also heals a bit less per character. With that sorted, though, it's time to go poke around at a few things we missed earlier(or rather, that I forgot how to get to because it's been a while since I did a playthrough that wasn't randomized to hell and back).       The first one is above the Seaside Cliffs camp, on east side of the bridge. If we don't drop down early and just keep looping around the hill...    We eventually reach a cave! Charity: These caves are starting to get a bit same-y.         Tau: There's nothing in here... this is just going to be for some "cool" view from the top, isn't it?        Even if nothing else, you might want to set this Home Point just to have a tall local location to warp back to, generally the higher you start, the easier it is to directly navigate to what you want. But that's not all!          That's right! This peak has a horrible boss that utterly outlevels us and will destroy us effortlessly! Hamza: I bet we could take him. Vanessa: Like we could take Gran? Hamza: Oh, don't worry, I have plans for Gran.       So the Troll and its two "Meats" outlevel us enough that they're way faster and act before we do, dumpstering 3/4ths of the party instantly.         Now the Troll IS vulnerable to rogues, being blindable and interruptible(note that his big attacks have a CT or "Charge Time" stat), but it's just not doable at this point without some sort of insane cheese strat that I'm nowhere near clever enough to figure out.  Vanessa: Not again. Charity: We need a break from all the fighting, let's go to the beach!       Down by the Seaside Cliffs, the way over to the westernmost part of them was one that I missed in a very embarrassing way, due to forgetting just how powerful the basic jump is.         The area branches slightly, and the way down the first branch mostly isn't too exciting.          Charity: It does look nice, though. Tau: You know what would look nicer? Not messing around off-road and getting back on track.           We also get a closer look at the weird sea stadium, its purpose is still mysterious and inscrutable, but I can reveal that it's absolutely part of one of the most cheesy gamebreaking moves available to Crystal Project players.    There's also the game's last clamshell. Hooray! They have no real use but we collected them all. Vanessa: That gives me a deep sense of satisfaction. Now, back to the other and more interesting branch.          It starts the same, but this time we make a jump to stay high rather than dropping down.     There's a chest below, and we'll get it, but not just yet. Vanessa: This is violence.     Tau: Oh... I'm getting those spooky Overpass vibes again... Charity: See? Going off-road and seeing cool stuff is good!      There are a number of shrines in the game and, except for two, which are somewhat special, they're more or less all at or near the highest points in their region. Now, what good are they?   Bar one, they all sell a [Shrine Name] stone which teleports you to them. Especially if playing with just the one Home Point, having these pre-set points you can warp to is vital for being able to zoop around efficiently. Even with three home points, it's great, now we can always return to Delende for free, and it's a tiny jaunt downhill to the west to Nan's if we want a heal. The 10 silver price is deceptively high at this stage, though, I had to sell basically all the party's spare gear, including the starter gear, and a few consumables to afford it. Plus, the stones tend to have a surprise...  ...they usually bring you to the roof of the shrine which, in at least a few cases, has or gives access to a chest. Let's see what we got here.   Hamza: I'm equipping this. Vanessa: It's going to turn you into tissue paper! You're our tank! Hamza: Don't care, it's rad and cool and owns.  Vanessa: Guys, say something! Tau: ...I think the edgy dark blood knight thing is cool. Charity: I support Hamza in being who he wants to be. Vanessa: I'm playing with morons.     Also, a miracle happens.       I get an Earth Spirit and it drops and Earth Bangle first try! I don't know what the drop % is because the game doesn't say, but I swear that on previous playthroughs I've had to murder like a dozen of these for a single one. The Bangle itself is only exciting for that trade we can do with it... for now. If you wanted to hyper-optimize you'd probably want to grind out sixteen of these so you could keep eight, for when you really wanted that Earth resistance, and had eight to trade, since the trade is repeatable and optimal play would also be to have another eight of the trade result.    The chest is just a mediocre piece of Medium head armor. So let's go do our trade.           So with the optimal setup, you could give everyone 50% Water resistance or 30% Earth resistance, and I can think of at least a couple of fights that would make a lot easier to the point of beating out just about any other accessories. Cue a scene transition as we finish our off-path chores and there's not enough update left to go for the Fencer crystal.   Tau: Wait, why are we back here? Hamza: Because we can take her. Vanessa: Gran completely wiped us out last time, there's no way we can take her. Charity: Yeah... you just want us to waste our time until she rolls all misses and we crit every hit? Hamza: No. I've got a plan. Haven't you guys figured it out yet? Vanessa: ...gimme a moment, no way you can think of a plan I can't. Actually, give me until tomorrow, it's getting late. Hamza: Deal. But tomorrow we go. END SESSION READER CHALLENGE What is Hamza's plan? We do genuinely have every single thing needed to destroy Gran without gaining even a single extra level or finding a single extra crystal. For anyone who's done it before, please don't spoil it for anyone who might actually be trying to figure it out for themselves.
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Oct 24, 2023 20:27
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Itachi is japanese for "weasel", as in the yokai "kamaitachi" (sickle weasel) which is maybe what they were going for???? e: lol that's what I get for not finishing the update first. Itachitori means weasel-bird.
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Oct 24, 2023 20:47
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Leraika posted:Itachi is japanese for "weasel", as in the yokai "kamaitachi" (sickle weasel) which is maybe what they were going for???? Is that a weasel with knives for paws? Goddamn that's a scary thought.
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Oct 24, 2023 20:48
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PurpleXVI posted:Is that a weasel with knives for paws? Goddamn that's a scary thought. Fun fact, the kamaitachi is the inspiration for the pokemon Sneasel! edit: And it looks like the three enemies here are plays on the three types of kamaitachi - one knocks people over, one claws them up, and one heals them so quickly they don't have time to notice what actually happened. also the answer for the bonus action is the mp drain, right? can't regenerate if you got no mp. that + reverse polarity to keep the boss from just chunking you. Leraika fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Oct 24, 2023 |
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Oct 24, 2023 20:51
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Leraika posted:also the answer for the bonus action is the mp drain, right? can't regenerate if you got no mp. that + reverse polarity to keep the boss from just chunking you. I think reverse polarity on the boss is enough to make Gran heal itself to death.
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Oct 24, 2023 21:31
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Last Transmission posted:I think reverse polarity on the boss is enough to make Gran heal itself to death. oh. ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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Oct 24, 2023 22:30
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The spider blocking the way to Scholar is a boss you can dodge, if you use the pillars on the sides and you're willing to reload a few times. Scholar's a worse mage class than it seems like just by virtue of not getting Wands; the magic attack boost from them is actually pretty hefty, especially as the game goes on. There's a few points in the game with mixed Staves or Rapiers that can compensate, but most of the time you'll be eating a hefty damage penalty if you aren't using the Wizard's Equip Wand. The class itself eventually becomes a pretty good generalist, and the fact the skills are free means I usually end up shoving it on my non-mages instead. If there's no relevant secondary, Scholar will always do work... But maybe leave getting the skills on everyone for a little later, if you're playing along. You can get to the Mercury Shrine basically as soon as you cross over into Delende if you hang right and make jumps, though up until this point you won't be able to afford the Stone anyway. Thankfully, any time you can get to a Shrine, you can pay pennies for a Shard and come back when you can afford the permanent teleport. Once you buy the stone, anyone playing should do themselves a favor and turn on Healing Save Points, on account of the Nans healing you for free. The only effect from teleporting there and back is that enemy flames respawn, but most areas aren't designed in a way that makes that actually important, so in practice it just saves you time. Though I guess you could see your tolerance for spending time on heals to be a resource that needs managing. I don't know that I have ever found a use for Contract; there just aren't enough early sources of +HP, and later on that attack stat just doesn't cut it. Gran and the Troll are a fun artifact of how the game handles the demo--there's still a few hours to go before it ends, so you can easily play it for ten hours depending on how much you wander. So it's designed kind of like a full game, with Gran and the Troll as its superbosses. It was a cool thing for the dev to do.
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Oct 24, 2023 22:31
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Einander posted:The spider blocking the way to Scholar is a boss you can dodge, if you use the pillars on the sides and you're willing to reload a few times. There's only one actual mandatory boss in the game, I think there's one boss that locks off a mobility option that you gain on killing it, without which the game would become somewhat more challenging, but in every other case I believe it should be viable(albeit somewhat circuitous, in cases) to get every class, mobility option, etc. without fighting them. Einander posted:Gran and the Troll are a fun artifact of how the game handles the demo--there's still a few hours to go before it ends, so you can easily play it for ten hours depending on how much you wander. So it's designed kind of like a full game, with Gran and the Troll as its superbosses. It was a cool thing for the dev to do. The developer is a supremely nice person who seems to genuinely care about the players, their opinions and their feedback, and seems to try to make the best game he can.
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Oct 24, 2023 22:45
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At least gathering Monster Magic isn't too bad, because if "give everyone the Learn Monster Magic skill" isn't in the cards (and at 25 points, it may not be!), you can flip everyone to Scholar for long enough to get the spells. And much like the Blue Mages that inspired them, it's a very versatile set that's probably got something useful in it. I always make sure my entire team has all the Scholar Stuff, if only so I only have to make one run at gathering things.
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Oct 24, 2023 23:28
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PurpleXVI posted:
Having recently returned to and (mostly) finished my playthrough after putting it on the backburner for a while, I was curious whether or not this was actually doable, and was overjoyed to discover that it absolutely is. E: Einander posted:I don't know that I have ever found a use for Contract; there just aren't enough early sources of +HP, and later on that attack stat just doesn't cut it. There's ways to play around having low max HP, or even make it work in your favor. With our current tools, it's as simple as, say, giving your Contract holder counter from monk, so that whenever they get hit they immediately heal back up. Cattail Prophet fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Oct 24, 2023 |
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Oct 24, 2023 23:41
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MechaCrash posted:At least gathering Monster Magic isn't too bad, because if "give everyone the Learn Monster Magic skill" isn't in the cards (and at 25 points, it may not be!), you can flip everyone to Scholar for long enough to get the spells. And much like the Blue Mages that inspired them, it's a very versatile set that's probably got something useful in it. I always make sure my entire team has all the Scholar Stuff, if only so I only have to make one run at gathering things. The predictability and visibility of spawns also makes it a lot easier, combined with the in-game archive. You know where whatever has the skill you want is, you can see where it's spawned, and you might hit a couple of "wrong" flames, but you'll usually hit the right one pretty fast(and a lot of dungeon flames are hard-coded in terms of what group they contain, anyway). You're not stuck walking back and forth in a vague area for half an hour grinding through random goblins until you get the Skill Knowing Goblin.
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Oct 24, 2023 23:48
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Update 05: Secret Strategy Before we start, I want to blame Crystal Project for the delay in this update, because while playing to record for the LP I remembered how fun the game is and started doing yet another randomized run which has consumed a worryingly large amount of my free time and continues to do so.    Vanessa: There's no way this is going to work.    Hamza: You know about looting, Tau knows stories, Charity knows... uhhh... Charity: I appreciate nice things. Hamza: Right, Charity is a pro appreciator, and I'm a pro fighter. I know this is gonna work.   Vanessa: At least the save point is just up there when this inevitably fails.     So Gran starts like usual by eating Hamza and Vanessa, the taunt is mostly to make sure that Gran's targeting doesn't get any funny ideas and eat Tau instead.   Reverse Polarity is tricky to use since it has a Charge Time of 60, but thankfully we have exactly 69 Arbitrary Time Units to pull it off before Gran does her AI-mandated self-heal.     And perfectly, it does exactly as much damage as she has HP. Vanessa: This is stupid, you're stupid. Hamza: Just admit it worked because I'm a genius. Vanessa: Never in a million years.  Charity: Just... can we find something that isn't gross for once?      Past Gran's lair is an entry into the Underpass, which is like the Overpass, but under things instead of over them.       It's primarily a number of waterways that connect various underground sections of the map. If you had some way to swim without being water soluble, you could take a lot of shortcuts between dungeons and other underground spaces.   For the sake of a sense of mystery, the Overpass and Underpass and a few other areas don't have maps you just grab, instead you collect scraps of them until you have six, and then one NPC we'll find soon-ish can be paid to assemble them into full maps you can actually use.   There's also the Plate of Wolf down here, which goes well with Hamza's Contract and with his being an AP-user in general.   Tau: Now, this is enough of these silly excursions, we're getting back on track, we're getting back to crystals.    Welcome to the Pale Grotto. https://soundcloud.com/schematist/original-rpg-music-cyan-river The theme is calm and faintly melancholic, I like it. Combined with the dark spaces and muted lighting, it's very calm.   Charity: Oh this place is lovely, finally a place where there isn't going to be anything gross or weird.    Vanessa: ...what else can you even fish for? Charity: Crabs? Lobsters? Clams? Tau: Maybe it's metaphorical fishing, like fishing for compliments. Vanessa: Maybe she's just a crazy person and we should move on.        Adding to the calmness is the fact that this is clearly intended to be the FIRST dungeon you go to, rather than starting with the Scholar Mountain or the Canal Beast Cave.     So the enemies here are pretty easy. Hamza: It's not as satisfying to kill them when it's easy.        Charity: Ooooooo, ancient ruins! Vanessa: Ooooooo, ancient loot!       You can actually just skip right past and continue along without going into the ruins, but if we want to continue into the game without doing some Speedrunner Shenanigans, we need to collect three crystals, and the ruins have the third of them.          Tau: They really don't let us get a word in edgewise... Hamza: Trials sound fun, though. It's the sort of place you'd find some really tough enemies.        Tau: ...she didn't mean fishing for birds, did she? Vanessa: I told you, crazy person. Everyone else here is crazy people, and only some of us are sane.            In addition to the Zoobats, there are a bunch of grubs and worms around in the Pale Grotto, too. Once again, due to coming here "late," they're easily killed and they don't have a lot of tricks.       Really just a test of whether you understand the very basicmost mechanics.        It also introduces us to the idea that enemies detect us via line of sight, so we can avoid fights we don't like by being a bit sneaky. It's not often important on normal difficulty, but there are a few cases where it's downright vital and on harder difficulties, especially if playing on hardcore mode, it starts being even more important.    Charity: NO, DON'T YOU DO IT. Hamza: Mmmmm... amphibiany.   Hamza: Hey, why's everything... getting dark... feeling woozy... Licking the frog is actually a full heal, not a joke death. I don't think any other dungeons in the game have this sort of mid-dungeon heal, so it's another example of how this is a super-merciful starter dungeon.          This also has our first Rapier pickup. Rapiers are primarily the weapons for Warlocks and Fencers, some Rogue skills can also work with Rapiers, but a primary-classed Rogue can't use them and they lose access to some important skills when wielding a Rapier so you'll primarily want to use a Dagger with a Rogue anyway.         And our boss for the dungeon is the Guardian, a giant caterpillar.     Its Wind weakness is puzzling since outside of a class-randomized start, or a start with random start locations, there's no way to have any kind of Wind-elemental attack at this point that I can think of      The only interesting thing about the fight is a discovery I make during it. Blitz Crush, one of the Warrior abilities is meant to hit you back with 20% of the damage you do... but with the Contract, it doesn't. I'm not sure whether it's A) because the Lifesteal from the Contract balances it out in one calculation or B) because the 100% Lifesteal affects the "Recoil" damage, too. I can't really think of any way to test, but it's pretty handy.   It drops a nice armor for Vanessa but that's about it, now about that crystal...            Tau: It's nice of Astley to help us stay on task and know where we're going. Vanessa: "Nice." They're probably doing it for their own benefit, somehow. Tau: Are you always this cynical? Don't you ever trust people? Vanessa: I mean, I trust you guys because I know how damaged you are, you can't surprise me.      The reason I was originally confused by Astley's gender is that they have female Fencer hairstyle, but not female Fencer exposed midriff. Anyway, Fencers are pretty useful, there are some combos you can use to make them do some truly broken amounts of damage. Their main weakness is that all their skills require a Rapier, which not a lot of other combat classes can work with, and which tend not to have any fun attributes, but they have nice spread of being able to do high single target damage, multi-target attacks and some conditions.    But for now, let's head towards the Trials.         The exit is mostly just a nice walk along a moody underground lake.      Charity: I'm going to be sad to leave this place, I love the mood. Tau: Hmmm... do you think all these waterways actually connect? Charity: Maybe? Tau: I hope we can find a boat, I'd love to find out, it would be so cool if these rivers didn't just spring out of nowhere and end nowhere.     And with that, we're back into fresh air.       Back into fresh air and back to chests that draw our attention but have unclear ways to read them. This one is actually a little bit mean.  Because the ledge you have to hop on to reach it(at least without coming back notably later) is partially hidden behind the waterfall.           At least a Tonic Pouch is a decent reward for our time and effort.          Tau: That's a good question, are we her friends? Charity: Why not, it can't hurt. Vanessa: Unless she lures us into a trap and backstabs us. Hamza: If she does that we just win the ambush, simple.    Anything further west is just where we came from, heading east, on the other hand, prompts a quick shift to a much more... blue, tone of existence, and the theme switches to the calm one from the Spawning Meadows.      You can just jump straight down, but if you instead run along the treetops on the north side of the Proving Meadows, you can collect some extra loot on the various ledges.        It's mostly minor stuff, but I can't imagine any Crystal Project player who didn't hoover it all up. Tau: Enough looting, let's get back on track.      There are some merchants down here, but for now all I care about is buying the maps I don't have, since I like being able to actually navigate to places.   A sneakily hidden chest behind the tent also contains another Burglar's Glove.      I think I mentioned this earlier already, but if I didn't, here's another mechanic! Making death to a boss not penalized encourages some degree of experimentation, but makign death to mook enemies penalized encourages you to be more careful if you're exploring somewhere out of your level range.       And the goon squad is also here. Tau: Aw, that's cute, they've made their own little party. Vanessa: Psh, they're using DLC skins, you can tell they're tryhards. Most other "classed" NPC's use the default skins we do, but like Astley, each of the other members of their gang have small changes, like Reid having dark armor unlike a Warrior's normal red armor.      There's a weapon, armor and accessory merchant over here, too.       Tau: Whoo, deep breaths, this is exciting! Hamza: Yeah, I get you, there's gonna be like, new things to kill! Tau: I meant more that we're finally making real progress, not just wandering around looking for shiny things or cool views.     The Knight! The special mechanic here is tied to the action bar at the bottom, he starts the battle with SIX actions, rather than just one! Charity: Oh no, he's going to mince us!      Charity: ...really?   And a single attack of any kind puts him down. Whomp whomp.    Hamza: Let's just pretend that didn't happen.    It's tempting to just head straight down the stairs, but...       The rows of lamps are placed so you can jump on the first ones and then bounce your way down the staircase. The ones on the left don't lead to anything, but the ones on the right lead to an equipment chest.   Nothing special but an upgrade over our current shield options. Now, how about that other chest?    Tau: For the love of God, just poke the crystal! Vanessa: Not until we get our hands on that chest.        If you get on the ledge that the... mushroom things, are zooming past on occasionally, you can wiggle your way up these ledges on the right, then on to the big ledge up top, and then it's smooth sailing.      It leads to the first of a sub-selection of swords that sacrifice attack power for defense power, making them tanking swords. 20 Defense is actually a pretty big improvement, especially at this stage, but I'm unclear on whether Defense and Resistance are linear in their effects or whether they taper off, but I think they're linear, so if you're really struggling for some ubertank build in the later game, it might be worth returning to this class of weapons to milk every last bit of Defense you can.      This crystal grants us the Aegis class which is a more defensively oriented Warrior. Almost all their abilities are about buffing their own defense, and they only have two (non-weapon specific) attacks which weaken the target's magic resistance and magic attack respectively, filling out a gap in the Warrior's abilities which weaken physical resistance and attack. I never found myself using Aegis much in the later game, but for now it's an obvious fit to go with Hamza, while Vanessa gets to be a Fencer.  Hamza: This is the dorkiest-looking skin in the game. I hate this.     Tau: What is this? Vanessa: It's progress, I thought you wanted that. Tau: This is someone dropping acid and then scribbling stuff on the walls.      The mushrooms don't push you or initiate fights, they just stop if you block their path and are impermeable, forcing you to "go with the flow" and making going the wrong way remarkably difficult, so eventually...     Tau: I don't think I'm drunk enough to handle this tonight. END SESSION Next time, we handle "Skumparadise" which is probably one of the weirder area names and all round weirder-feeling areas in the game.
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Nov 5, 2023 02:04
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PurpleXVI posted:The only interesting thing about the fight is a discovery I make during it. Blitz Crush, one of the Warrior abilities is meant to hit you back with 20% of the damage you do... but with the Contract, it doesn't. I'm not sure whether it's A) because the Lifesteal from the Contract balances it out in one calculation or B) because the 100% Lifesteal affects the "Recoil" damage, too. I believe lifesteal is always applied last in any damage calculations. And I do mean always; if for some reason going through with an attack would take you to zero HP, you still end up surviving as long as you also have some amount of lifesteal.
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Nov 5, 2023 02:42
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I just wanna say that I'm enjoying the "four friends on a group chat, playing an RPG together" vibe. It feels appropriate to the game.
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Nov 5, 2023 02:49
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PurpleXVI posted:This crystal grants us the Aegis class which is a more defensively oriented Warrior. Almost all their abilities are about buffing their own defense, and they only have two (non-weapon specific) attacks which weaken the target's magic resistance and magic attack respectively, filling out a gap in the Warrior's abilities which weaken physical resistance and attack. I never found myself using Aegis much in the later game, but for now it's an obvious fit to go with Hamza, while Vanessa gets to be a Fencer. The primary perk in the Aegis skillset is the Natural Tank passive, which is a very nice convenience to ensure that your desired tank starts with a little bit of threat on EVERYONE. The Aegis also has the highest innate Vitality at 5 stars and solid Spirit at 4 stars, meaning that an Aegis is inherently good at being tanky. Aegis is key for accomplishing certain types of capital-S Shenanigans, but by and large is a conservative defensive pick with some interestingly useful passives.
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Nov 5, 2023 06:11
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Olesh posted:Aegis is key for accomplishing certain types of capital-S Shenanigans, Entrench, my beloved. 
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Nov 5, 2023 19:38
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It’s probably because I suck, but Skumparadise is a low point imo. I started a replay because this LP reminded me that I really like the game overall, but the last bit of this area is sucking for me. Looking forward to see how you handle it, though part of the problem is I randomed crystals this run and I’m not sure I have great tools for it from this set.
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Nov 7, 2023 05:36
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Ah ha. I figured it wasn't a coincidence. . Anyway, this game rules. I dumped 120 hours into it playing the original playthrough and some randomizer runs. The combat is incredibly good, lots of ways to fight various encounters and fun combinations of gear and classes. The randomizer is VERY thorough and has many options to customize what gets randomly swapped.
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Nov 7, 2023 16:02
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How Rude posted:The randomizer is VERY thorough and has many options to customize what gets randomly swapped. My only issue with the randomizer is that it's a bit too random, when it comes to mangling classes, you often end up with classes that are borderline unplayable and only a few which are actually viable to use, so I wish it had a "middle" setting where it tried to "theme" classes or somewhat stick to their original ratio of offensive/defensive/utility abilities. Randomized item pickups including quest items really strains your memory for where things are and how to navigate places without tools you might be used to, on the other hand, and is very good, and randomized crystals+starting classes+bosses+enemies means you can get some wild surprises. Ultiville posted:It’s probably because I suck, but Skumparadise is a low point imo. I started a replay because this LP reminded me that I really like the game overall, but the last bit of this area is sucking for me. Looking forward to see how you handle it, though part of the problem is I randomed crystals this run and I’m not sure I have great tools for it from this set. Part of the thing about Skumparadise is that really only has one fight you're expected to fight, the remainder you're all expected to avoid and resultingly have low to no actual rewards for fighting them(aside from a bit of XP, I don't even think they give money). But we'll have a look at that when we get there.
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Nov 7, 2023 16:22
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I just wish randomizing class skills kept prereqs together. If this skill requires this buff/debuff, there should be a way (or the way in some cases) to get/set that effect in the same tree somewhere. It'd also be cool if it picked a single weapon type per class and only ever gave that weapon or weapon-agnostic attacks, but the hodgepodge weapon reqs are whatever in comparison to some skills literally being unusable without specific subcommands that you may well not get until the very last crystal.
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Nov 7, 2023 18:23
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PurpleXVI posted:Part of the thing about Skumparadise is that really only has one fight you're expected to fight, the remainder you're all expected to avoid and resultingly have low to no actual rewards for fighting them(aside from a bit of XP, I don't even think they give money). But we'll have a look at that when we get there. Yeah and I mostly managed it this time. (I think my first time through I managed to do one of the speedrunner tricks unintentionally because I recall coming at it from above somehow and skipping a lot of it). Unfortunately the not-intended-to-skip fight is the problem. I always find it kind of rough because it has so many different things going on in terms of status and just a lot of raw numbers plus the sort of nonsense Fungal Gaze thing. On this randomized run Wizard was in the entrance crystal so I don't have AOE fire unless I grind it up some, which makes dealing with the adds hard. I thought I'd use the Reaper AOE but since I don't know of any scythes at this point in the game there's no way to get drain other than using Contract, which I don't really have enough HP for - it leaves the starting max so low that the Reaper tends to get killed by the burst from Fungal Gaze. I might just have to spend some grind time, I have Aegis so if I make that the Reaper primary and level up a few times I'll get some high MHP growth and unlocking the AOE fire would help a lot.
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Nov 7, 2023 19:30
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Update 06: Skumparadise Welcome to Skumparadise https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxqHublI5n8   Hamza: Stay on your toes, everyone, no telling what the Trial might test us with. Tau: Very ominous atmosphere... oppressive but not creepy...    Skumparadise's gimmick is that, more than any other dungeon, avoiding fights is relatively trivial. Without being a tutorial, it's a tutorial in how to dodge fights you don't want, amplified by all enemies in here except the end boss having no drops or rewards except XP and learning points.          Also if you land on any of the mushrooms, most of them will move, carrying you past danger or forming platforms. Once again, it's only necessary in, I believe, one spot, but trains you to regard NPC's as platforms in future situations. Charity: Ugh, if this game has mounts I hope we get to ride something normal, and not like, a mushroom or... Vanessa: A giant slug? Hamza: A skeleton? Charity: Uuuuuugh.  The Awake ring is situationally useful for its immunity and an early Mind boost, but otherwise not really super noteworthy.  Hamza: ...what if we didn't avoid all the fights, though, and instead fought all the fights? Good question!    Skumparadise enemies are all creepy-looking mushrooms.    Unique to them is that they all have an untyped free action attack that does a decent chunk of damage for this stage of the game. Sword icon attacks are physical, orb icon attacks are magical, gear icon attacks are untyped and, unless they have an elemental type that can be resisted or negated, will always do full damage.  The three-shroom formations can actually be slightly scary if you don't swing their targeting right since two of them ganging up on your tank before they can get an action or a heal can be bad news.             Vanessa: No sense fighting these if they don't drop anything, Hamza. Hamza: ...but they're there. Skumparadise also has a decent number of secret things, so let's rewind slightly...  From the chest with the Awake ring, we can jump to the lanterns in the background.           And get a second Awake Ring by continuing across the OTHER lanterns, then jumping into the background.      Charity: Stupid mushroom, it's broken, it won't go any farther. The other mushrooms block the first one, but that just means we can use it as a platform to go up...      ...and collect another background goodie. Crystal Project dungeons also like to play around with the perspective a bit. It's usually subtle, but while usually at something like a 45-degree angle when viewing the party, here we're almost watching the gang from side on, more like a 10-degree angle.    Tau: Hey, the other mushrooms move when we jump on them, where are these ones going to go?  Charity: I had to go get a drink for one minute and you managed to drown us all in lava. Tau: In my defense there might have been something cool down there! Charity: Sure if you think horrible fiery death is cool.    Get the other three to run into the lava, then your forward-moving shroom can proceed.    You don't need the mushroom to make the jump, but the flames here can't jump, so any amount of height keeps them from nibbling on your ankles.   Once again the flames can be dodged, but this one has a new kind of mushroom to show off.     Fungers are like chunkier Shroomers that pick up the Spore skill. It's one of the rare times a debuff effect isn't 100%, but it still sticks often enough that it can easily leave you with only one or two characters able to act, and one of those getting their rear end beat. So you want to splatter them fast.        The trick here is really just patience. The mushrooms make a zigzaggy route that will always get you to the end. Here, though, it gets you to a ledge with a flame, but if you jump early, you can hop over the flame and on to the little "backrest."      And for the next one you don't even need to jump on the mushroom, you can literally just outrun the flame. Vanessa: Okay, this is kind of fun, I like outwitting these flames. Tau: It's nice to be using our brains instead of our swords and legs for once.      These two have the trick that you can't just stay on the mushroom but have to jump over or run around an obstacle to keep the high ground. Once again, a neat little trick, not too hard.    Once again I just run.     This jump is usually my bane of Skumparadise, I've inexplicably flubbed the jump to the leftmost mushroom so many times.   Once again, though, a twist. If you stay on the mushroom, the enemies in the niches will rush out and attack you, but if you jump to the front row of shrooms, you'll be out of aggro range.      Tau: Outsmarted! Hah! Vanessa: Whoah be careful, Tau, you're in danger of enjoying yourself.           From here on out we can almost turn off our brains. There's just one last trick.       Tau: We could fight those- Hamza: We could?! Hell yes! Tau: -or we could let them beat themselves up.    The flames can't jump or fly, but their aggro range is long enough that they try to straight path to you anyway and go right over the edge.    The reason we care about bypassing them at all is because there's a little gap in between two of the pillars farther right.        Which leads to the Mana Ring, an accessory that provides as much +Mana by itself as both of Charity's Earrings do together, freeing up one of the slots for something else, like an Awake Ring.           And of course the secret also continues further right to ANOTHER secret with a decent one-handed weapon. Hamza's still doing more damage with the Contract, but if we didn't have that, this would be a great upgrade at this point.  Anyway, the intended route.          Tau: ...I hate these narrow corridors, I be there's going to be a jump scare. Charity: ...well that would suck, thanks for making me expect it now, too. Vanessa: So far we've been scarier than anything in here. Hamza: Ha ha, yeah, if an evil clown or something jumps out at us we'll just whoosh, pow, smack! Tau: ... Hamza: You know, like sound effects, of us fighting, and winning.      This area can be a bit confusing since you can't see the holes to jump up through until you're right under them.     Charity: Finally, no more mushrooms.   Hamza: Finally! A proper fight!   Unless you count the optional bosses, like Gran and the Troll, I would say that the Parasite is probably the first boss that has a chance of being a temporary roadstop for new players who're trying to pay a bit of attention.    Like the other mushrooms, he has a Shroomy Gaze attack, giving him a default relatively nasty punchiness since that's about half the health of any character in the party.  If he chose to Absorb and Shoomy Gaze one character in the same turn, he'd be more or less guaranteed to one-shot them.   Funks are, well, small mushrooms, that have Attack and Shroomy Gaze. He'll pop it every so often if there are no living Funks. By itself not too bad, except...  ...Atmoshear means that it's hard to focus individual targets and I didn't bring any multi-target offensive spells. This is not the rudest use of Atmoshear in the game, but it makes the Funks defensive as well as offensive, but also makes it hard to blitz them down when they're summoned to cut the enemy offense.  And Dream Eater is often used by enemies that can put you to sleep from here on out. Once again an untyped skill, so it'll really shred the target even if it's your chonky tank type character.      After the first round of combat, the Parasite of course sets up the Funks and lines up an Atmoshear.    I immediately gently caress up and get Hamza killed when I aggro one of the Funks on him, but forgot to aggro the other one and it randomly chose him as target for murder. Hamza: Sometimes being a tank sucks.     Another effect of the Parasite using untyped skills is that Daze and Stun effects don't slow it down, because they don't use AP and don't have CT charge times, instead at most having hard cooldowns, this makes it a lot harder to lock down. There are SOME untyped skills that break this stereotype, but they're the rarer ones.     With the Funks down I start wearing the Parasite itself down... but just before I do, it manages to summon another pair of Funks.    Interestingly, even though I kill the Parasite, the Funks remain. There are some summons in the game that have scripted Escape abilities they'll use if their "owner" gets killed, but most will in fact hang around, so you can't rely entirely on just blitzing down a single enemy.  They're not greatly challenging, in any case. But if the fight had left everyone almost dead, it could've gone poorly.      Vanessa: Great, these dorks again. Tau: As long as they don't want to attack us, no reason to be hostile... The party will run into Astley & Co. over the course of the game, but since they're on their own quest, if you start sequence breaking, they'll be in the next place relevant to where you sequence break to, and not in the previous locations, so you can miss some meetups depending on your order of play                  Charity: That was an odd interaction. Tau: Yeah I... didn't even know what to say. Hamza: Well if I hadn't been dead I know what I would've said when that Talon joker came up to us: 1v1 me bro. Tau: Sooner or later someone's going to take you up on that, you know. Hamza: Oh yeah, I can't wait! It's going to rule. Vanessa: Five bucks says you eat dirt. Hamza: You're on!  And we get another quote like the one at the start of the game. It gives me a sense of the dev as being a big fan of unstructured play and people making their own fun, with the creator's intent of a piece being less important than the fun people make with it.        Charity: Fresh air, at last!          The Capital Courtyard is a relatively small space that mostly exists to give you a quick breath of fresh air between the Trial Caves/Skumparadise and the next section.      Charity: Some nice, normal birds.   There are two locked doors in the walls, but we won't be able to access them for a bit yet, nor is there a reason to rush to it... because we can get where they lead in other, creative ways anyway.    Charity: Hey, there's Chloe. Tau: What's she doing up there? Charity: Probably staring at the birds, she seems to like them. Tau: Hmmmmm.   Aaaand that's where I choose to leave everyone in suspense for what's at the top of the stairs. Primarily because the next area took WAY more screenshots than I expected and I'm trying to not make the updates unreadably long, since that was a complaint on some previous LP's.
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Nov 14, 2023 21:22
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Unreadably long can be a drag for sure. So, if I'm reading that right, the shrooms randomly do a fixed 150 damage to someone, and then take their turn? Oof.
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Nov 14, 2023 23:46
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Tylana posted:Unreadably long can be a drag for sure. The targeting isn't random, it's subject to the same Threat mechanic as everything else, and the basic shrooms' only other ability is a normal attack, plus there's a cooldown on the Shroomy Gaze that prevents them from spamming it repeatedly.
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Nov 14, 2023 23:52
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Ah, not sure why I thought it ignored Threat. Good to know. This is a game I'm glad exists, but I'm not sure my navigating or party planning are good enough to enjoy it personally. (So, thanks again for the LP!) Like, with the difficulty options, it seems you don't need to find all the secrets or do all the crazy synergies at least. So maybe someday.
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Nov 15, 2023 01:01
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The game is GOOD, especially from a party planning/mechanical standpoint. If you were a fan of FF5 then this game is a good match in that front. The platforming focus is the big iffy point, and what keeps me from really enjoying it to the fullest extent. It makes me wish there was adjustable platforming difficulty options, such as not falling off platforms unless I jump/hold another button, to go along with the exp/gold/LP adjusting options. But if you like platforming or otherwise have a strong tolerance for it and liked FF5, this game is practically tailor made for you. Well, that and if you like exploring/meandering.
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Nov 15, 2023 03:54
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Honestly, even if you do like platforming it's probably the weakest part of the game. The way that making creative use of your options facilitates exploration is great, but the basic mechanics have some pain points that a more dedicated platformer likely would have had enough polish to avoid. Celeste this ain't.
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Nov 15, 2023 04:59
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