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So at the moment 13 teams are starting QBs with less than 3 full seasons of starting experience. I've seen minimal level takes in the N/V thread and some really dumb ones in others about the young QBs around the league. So I wanted to start a thread to discuss a little bit as the season goes on. I've mainly listed starters below, but if you want to discuss dudes who've been drafted who are backups or who have had weird careers so far - Trey Lance included, go for it. Current starting QBs with less than 3 full seasons experience: 3rd year: Mac Jones Justin Fields Trey Lance Trevor Lawrence Zach Wilson 2nd Year: Kenny Pickett Sam Howell Brock Purdy Desmond Ridder Rookies (of note): Anthony Richardson CJ Stroud Bryce Young Tyson Bagent William Mayo Levis Misc: Jordan Love What do you think about your team's QB? Should you cut bait (Mac?), are they in a terrible situation (Bryce), are they doin well (Purdy, Stroud)? BlindSite fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Oct 26, 2023 |
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Oct 8, 2023 04:10
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mcmagic posted:That Panthers trade is going to be a rough one......... I don't think that it is tbh. Panther fans have PTSD from the last few years and how Cam was destroyed. Bryce had a bad day today, but he also flashed a little more than he has in other weeks in other situations and I saw him looking to Mingo and Chark more than he has in weeks past. Both of those interceptions today were a rookie doing stuff that worked for him in college and getting exposed by a solid defensive read and play. He's still doing the little things right, he looks off, he checks, he can change plays, he can play up tempo. Despite protestations to the contrary his arm is live and he has good placement and touch. He's just not been breaking records, but with his supporting cast I don't think anyone would be. It's going to be a long turn around given Reich is running weird concepts and schemes on offense at times and the offensive line has not been playing well but there have been injuries there. The fear I have with Young is that there is already a tendency creeping into his game where he seems to be expecting pressure and gets a little yippy, had it last week and it happened again today on a couple of occasions. but I think with comfort and a little more time that will pass and he'll develop the habits he needs to. Next week against the Dolphins will probably be a bit of a poo poo show for the franchise as a whole, but the week after is the Bye and then they face the Texans. My pie in the sky hope is that they use the Bye week effectively and actually start to utilise the concepts that are working a lot more and cutting away the dumb poo poo like the slow developing perimeter screens etc. They also need to be using Laviska Shenault a lot more. He's nothing special but he is fast and explosive and can make plays in space and I'd really like to see the team come up with four or five plays for him each week instead of 0.
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Oct 9, 2023 08:33
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Patriots have to be about ready to cut bait with Mac Jones at this point right?
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Oct 9, 2023 08:34
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mcmagic posted:Would you take Young over Caleb Williams+DJ Moore? Probably not, but how often do we see a presumptive first overall pick end up dropping in the space of a year? It happens all the time. You move up and you get the guy you want. I can't fault them for taking a swing.
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Oct 9, 2023 22:46
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Everything I've heard about Jordan love seems to be along the lines of walks like a duck, quacks like a duck but isn't in terms of being a starting calibre QB. Its not good signs imo when you can produce the first two weeks and turn into a giant pumpkin the moment there's more than a half of game film to go on.
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Oct 10, 2023 04:38
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Relentlessboredomm posted:exactly. no one thinks the Jags are a super talented team just that they have an elite qb in a garbage division Etienne Kirk Jones Ridley Engram Is one of the better skill position groups in the NFL lol.
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Oct 11, 2023 08:36
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Relentlessboredomm posted:Ehh, most of those dudes are solid starters or #2s with flashes. There’s no true #1 except maybe Ridley now that he’s back but that’s still not entirely clear yet. I'm speaking to the supporting roster for their quarterback. It's one of the better groups in the NFL. I'm not saying they're 49ers stacked top to bottom, but their group of skill position players is easily playoff calibre.
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Oct 11, 2023 08:53
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forkboy84 posted:I can't take Brock Purdy seriously anymore since discovering he has a brother called Chubba Thats his secret I guess. Didn't want to be the 2nd best athlete in the family to some dude named chubba.
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Oct 13, 2023 06:47
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Can a guy really be "dismissed" for either when he went where he did? Pretty sure everyone said "test dumb" at the time.
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Oct 16, 2023 04:54
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Just went back and watched the first half of the Panthers game I missed this morning. Bryce looked a lot better this week - compared to last. At least I guess some of the stuff they were talking about doing to make life a little better seems to have paid off some. Plays seemed to come in a little quicker and there was more direct three step drops and less slow developing mesh and rub routes that just haven't been working. I've also noticed there's a few of those chemistry things that are starting to come together less balls being put where the receiver wasn't expecting and less of receivers just giving up on plays because they're expecting Bryce to gun it, even if they're covered because for whatever faults he does have Bryce can find a window some guys just couldn't with his accuracy and placement. That being said the second half from the Panthers was pretty disappointing. They got away from the run game that had been working and there seemed to be a lot of just plain old bad blocking, poo poo play design and bad performances - especially on third down. Its damning with faint praise but at least there was some improvement this week.
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Oct 16, 2023 08:58
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FizFashizzle posted:It really kind of looked like the dolphins didn’t run anything special in the first quarter on offense or defense, and then decided to score thirty five unanswered points. Panthers are a BAD bad team. With his eyes downfield looking for a completion. He's moving off the spot still looking to throw, it's not panicked which is the difference.
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Oct 17, 2023 02:03
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Reich is handing over play calling to the OC. I thought this might happen during the bye. Wonder it I'll make a difference (it wont).
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Oct 17, 2023 04:10
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJCp_CrZQhI&ab_channel=TheQBSchool Good Ep on the dolphins game this week and JT kinda confirms what jumped out for me anyway. The offensive line play not really up to snuff, but the anticipation and trust from Bryce with his receivers has improved. There are some not great things starting to creep in that come just from getting hit too much. Throwing a touch early, being a tad twitchy but he's still hanging in there when needed and eating a shot and he's still almost reminding himself in play to let things come to him, its interesting to see. I hope the change in play caller sees some change because more than once JT points out a play thats "old football" at one point he said, this play is so old its like watching jurassic park, which - ooof. There's also several occasions where he says "this isn't on Bryce - it's scheme and points out there's no hot read, or no receiver breaking when they should be under pressure etc. But there's some great throws over guys and around guys and in tight windows. Man needs some help post 2500.
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Oct 20, 2023 00:24
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Stix9501 posted:I think its time to start shifting some blame onto Reich. This is the NFL baby! You gotta innovate, and dinosaurs must be turned into oil. The trends are bad, we haven't looked competitive. Ugh. I've seen all the QB school vids and I think the only reasonable takeaway is "the Panthers O-line and receivers fuckin suck". Now how you deal with that as a coach is tough. I'm at the panicky, "someone do something!", stage of watching this season. Hoping Reich can figure out Bryce's strengths and make some magic happen. TBH I think the only stretch that matters is the post Bye winnable games. The schedule eases up a tad, there will be a new play caller (and they're insisting it was always the plan) and we get three games in a row - at least on paper the panthers should be right in. I don't expect a post bye season turn around, but I want to see the team at least win or be right there in games they should be.
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Oct 20, 2023 23:39
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trevorreznik posted:Time to add Tyson Bagent to the rookies of note list Done and done
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Oct 25, 2023 02:01
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The thread demands youthful sacrifices. Billy Mayo has been added to the list.
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Oct 26, 2023 02:35
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Purdy has been very good up until the last few weeks but I mean. 2nd year players having a slight rough patch isn't where I'd write the guy off. I think he probably needs to respond fairly quickly though or the 9ers will start wondering if Darnold is worth exploring.
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Oct 30, 2023 01:08
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A positive stat for young, bit of a negative for the rest of the team but: 22 for 31 for 235 yards and one TD while pressured on 40% of drop backs and the running game producing 44 yards.
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Oct 30, 2023 03:12
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Not for nothing but Sam Howell is quietly playing pretty well. Falcons and Eagles both have top ten defenses and he combined for 7TDs 1 INt at like a 70% completion rate. He might end up sticking.
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Oct 30, 2023 08:37
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B. Young QB School is up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKocbE78xDc Some new wrinkles with the new offensive caller. Pretty much exactly as you'd expect. Lots of good from Bryce, a few real bad from the offensive line and a receiver core that just isn't good enough. At least Bryce didnt show the bad habits he did last week where he had some yips. BlindSite fucked around with this message at 08:58 on Nov 2, 2023 |
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Nov 2, 2023 08:52
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At least in a pretty strong receiver class there could be someone around when we get our first pick and there's three or four legit guys hitting free agency. Gonna suck for the last 8 games but at least they've hit well on Bryce. All the tools except size are there and evident.
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Nov 3, 2023 00:09
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Why? It only ever confirms what I've seen watching games anyway? I've already said Bryce had a poo poo game today, I'm sure it'll confirm that too.
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Nov 6, 2023 05:27
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I have a number of thoughts that I will write up at length tonight. I don't quite agree with Fiz evaluation of Bryce overall. I do agree with his assessment from yesterday cause Bryce was bad on a couple of costly ones.
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Nov 7, 2023 01:13
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I've started and stopped writing this like four times but the organisation is hosed from top to bottom. You've got an idiot owner who not only likes to meddle but gives too much power to his wife. Your ability to take cock from a billionaire doesn't make you qualified to evaluate NFL talent and i dont care how much he feels like shes a good judge of character, the owners wife shouldn't have a say in how the NFL team is run, who plays for it or who coaches it. Fitterer can't draft talent or sign free agent talent anywhere near well enough. The team isn't being coached in a way that makes sense and the scheme is off and it shows and there's massive mental errors that speak to an overall issue in the organisation. None of this is on Bryce but it's going to contribute on game day and I don't quite know what the path forward is.
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Nov 7, 2023 02:54
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Bryce Young / panthers / Reich: Firstly - Bryce Young did not play well yesterday - Fiz was right in his assessment. Young's footwork didn't look great and he seemed to have the yips he didn't have the week prior. Both of the interceptions, that meant anything in the context of the game, came on off platform throws where he missed passes he normally makes. I'm not going to handwave them away because it did cost us the game, but overall - he's not really made those kind of dumb errors in the past and I don't think they're necessarily predictive of future performance. That being said - players tend to take on the personality of their team's coach and basically the Panthers loving stink from top to bottom right now. As a result - I have no idea what the path forward is but I'm kind of doubting there is one at this point - at least in the short term. Leading from the front you've got the owner who came across from the Steelers - traditionally one of the smartest run organisations (despite obvious issues like employing a rapist for 15 years, refusing to fire an offensive coordinator who sucks and just generally being filled with grubby cheap shot artists for the last decade) in the NFL to Carolina. It seems that at least in part he came over with the intention of putting every idea he ever raised at an ownership meeting and got "lol no"'d into practice and the results have been loving dire. Considering that the sexual harassing groper in charge was forced to sell the team after making the playoffs in 2015 and 2016 and having a legitimate shot (twice) at winning a super bowl in his tenure and since he left, the team hasn't come close to sniffing the playoffs it's close to impossible to consider the sale of the team a success. - In the offseason I spoke about the Panthers being a good landing spot for a rookie Qb. Toward the back end of 2022 the Panthers switched to a more power style running game. McAdoo for all his faults was smart enough to recognise that the arm of PJ Walker or the brain of Sam Darnold was not going to get the team very far and basically handed the keys of the offensive unit to the recently rebuilt offensive line and D'Onte Foreman. As part of handing over the offense to the recently promoted lead back (after the CMC trade) he also implemented a simplified offense for Sam Darnold, to the point where some games it seemed like the philosophy was: 1. throw to DJ Moore 2. check down to a safety valve 3. scramble for a few and for the most part the Panthers under Wilks got back on track. We had done the impossible, making an incompetent team seem competent and like it actually could compete for a division title (in the NFC:S such great heights, I know). We all knew change to the coaching staff was coming, but the bones of the team were there and the lessons learned over the past few years would surely hold some sway in the way the team would move forward. The offense featured a running back who was effective at doing running back things, a pair of offensive guards who had found their feet, a bit of a cult hero at centre, a young left tackle that after a decade of searching had proven to be dependable and effective in a man to man scheme and a shiny bonafide WR1. In hindsight - it made some sense that the GM Scott Fitterer didn't trade Brian Burns for 2 first round picks to the Rams, he was going to sign an extension in the offseason and everything would be fine. Defensively we had a backfield that featured a former first round pick in the slot, a lockdown number one and contributors at safety and linebacker. The team lacked some steel, lacked some depth but there was enough talent in the roster to turn some losses into wins and make a run in a weak division. Then the team hired Frank Reich. At first I thought the hire was a sound one. You were getting a HC with some super bowl pedigree due to his time in Philly, someone who had learned some harsh lessons with managing quarterbacks and dealing with ownership, he had dialled up an effective running game, he'd lived through the bad days rotating QBs and unearthing gems on a rebuilding roster- surely he'd have learned from his mistakes. The defense was to be mentored by one of the better coordinators in the league who simply wanted to forget the craziness of Denver. Two mentored with decades of experience were brought in to contribute on the offense and the defense. A Shanavay disciple at just 37 was coming in at OC and the best offensive position coach the team had - Dave Campen on the offensive line miraculously survived the night of the Tepperknives to keep his post. Now if you were in this situation and you were going to draft a new quarterback and take the big swing (which I fully support) you would surely keep playing to the team's strengths. It doesn't take a genius to learn from the mistakes of the past made in the same building you now occupy. You would keep a run heavy game plan, you'd ensure you could staff that game plan with a running back who's proven in his abilities to work with a young Qb and run downhill in a power scheme. You'd do everything you can to keep that number one receiver, or you'd at least have a plan to replace him, you'd ensure that the rookie was given protection, support, targets and tailor an offense to his strengths... right? Frank Reich and Fitterer basically changed all of that. The running back they should have kept they allowed to walk - to a very crowded Chicago backfield - on not very much money. They took the free agents and draft picks they'd spent millions in cap and no small amount of picks on acquiring at offensive line and completely changed the blocking and protection scheme. They shipped off the number one receiver and replaced him with a 33 year old who would have struggled to be the 4th receiver on the team he left. Then in lieu of play action, roll outs, bootlegs, things you do to get a guy into his timing, keep him safe physically they dialed up a static, unimaginative, unoriginal 20 year old offense and asked him to throw 40 times a game. All of this is basically to say that the Panthers simply aren't deploying their resources properly. Some dumb stats to back up my point: Carolina currently has the 9th most passing attempts in the NFL. They are 25th in rushing attempts but if you take away Bryce's "I'll do it myself" moments and subtract his scrambling its actually 30th in designed runs. 30th This is a team that spent the last two offseasons bringing in assets and players who are suited to a man to man, down hill dominant rushing attack with an outside wide receiver who can blow the top off a defense and turn a slant into a touchdown into something resembling an offensive unit that would have barely worked in 2003. It's loving insane. On the surface the platform was right loving there to get this right and they haven't. You've got an owner who defers to his wife on matters of hiring coaches, drafting players and signing general managers, who was happy to trade away his two best offensive players in the dreams it would get him the Steph Curry of QBs. A guy who's learned loving nothing from the people he was in the room with for close to a decade in Pittsburgh. Frank Reich has seemingly learned nothing from his time in Philly or Indy and the offensive mind we brought in to call the plays has been mired in a stagnant playbook from the early 2000s instead of a modern passing offense. They called PA scissors the other week. Something Dan Henning couldn't get to work in 2003 when he had Steve loving Smith and Mushin Muhummad running the routes. No ones going to succeed in with this kind of thinking. They don't know what they have in the building and are instead trying to run poo poo that's either outdated or not suited to what they have. It's like if you took Jalen Hurts and put him in San Francisco and asked Brock Purdy to scramble ten times a game and run the tush push. It's beyond loving dumb and the problem is that Tepper thinks the problems is his coaches don't put his plans into action. The coaches haven't learned from the most obvious situations they've literally lived through and the GM is undoubtedly being pulled in three different directions between the two of them and his own knowledge of football. It's a lot of words I know, but seeing what Bryce can do well. He's a legitimate NFL QB he's not in the right system, he doesn't have the right support and he doesn't have the personnel around him to succeed. Rookies are going to have bad days, and they're going to pick bad days to have bad days on, but I don't know how anyone can expect him to have a good day at this point.
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Nov 7, 2023 09:50
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I appreciate the kind words about my post. poo poo is just maddening when you go through it all line by line. Being a gajillionair and wanting to play with your toy is fine, but at least go in with some direction and a plan. You can't do this poo poo by feel or by your gut. Even Richardson as bad as he was with his 1970s direction had a direction, conviction and looked to build it. It was wrong but it was enough that it could focus the team toward a goal and it could lead to some form or minor success. I just keep thinking of that old saying. No winds are favourable if you don't know your heading and that's the Panthers right now.
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Nov 7, 2023 23:30
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Shinji2015 posted:Tepper hired the man who was fired halfway through the season and replaced with Jeff Saturday, I do not put hiring McDaniels as HC past him. Im just hopeful that we fall rear end backwards into a decent coach at this point. Like we fire Reich and we go to the third option between 1. College idiot with idiot ideas he sells as innovation 2. Old boring idiot with old ideas he sells as dependable.
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Nov 8, 2023 04:45
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Kirios posted:It is kind of heartbreaking to see the frustration in your words BlindSite. I looked over the old draft posts this year and you were legit pumped heading out of there. Followed this sport for 20+ years. Lost two superbowls, spent 5 years in the wilderness of fuckery with the sale of the team and the hiring of Rhule and now we're basically at the lowest point we've been since before we drafted Newton who we wasted and we're wasting another good young QB. Oh and we almost mortgaged everything for that loving rapist scum in Cleveland rn. It's maddening.
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Nov 8, 2023 08:52
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MikeCrotch posted:My main worry about Bryce rn is that you can see the beginnings of David Carr syndrome. Dude is throwing early on stuff because he's cringing anticipating the hit He did it prior to the Texans game on a couple plays, was near perfect against Houston and then got the yips a little against Indy. Hard to blame him when he's on pace for like 40 sacks this year but the teams gotta do something.
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Nov 8, 2023 22:24
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Intruder posted:David Carr seeing 40 sacks and thinking "that's cute" Its actually closer to 60 but I was just estimating .
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Nov 9, 2023 04:31
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Panthers call static routes all loving day and their receivers are too slow to threaten corners and even linebackers for that to work. The whole idea of a static route is for the receiver to scream up field, and stop when the corner turns his hips for an easy pitch and catch. There were 10 instances in colts game. 10 that I counted where the corners just gentle back peddled and held tight coverage. Right now Bryce is driving a 3 wheeled diesel 1974 land rover while everyone else is in an Indy car and you're all going, "this guys supposed to be a good driver".
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Nov 9, 2023 23:48
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Today isn't on Bryce. We're calling perimeter screens on 3rd and 15 to receivers who barely run a 4.5 40. Thielen dropped 2 first downs with YAC potential. Bryce made maybe two or three bad throws the entire game. This offensive play calling and execution is loving dire. The offensive line is so confused about who to block they block no one. The receivers couldn't separate with a restraining order and the running game averaged about 10 yards a quarter. It's loving pathetic and putrid. We converted 2 third downs by the time we took the field for the final drive and both were Bryce improvising. We're in Chicago territory and the games on the line - inside 2 minutes, Young's 3 for 3 on 4th downs and Reich calls a 60 yard field goal. But yeah, nah it's Bryce's play - its insane.
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Nov 10, 2023 09:31
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xbilkis posted:Some of it was on Bryce dude 10% of it. But he'll get 90% of the blame.
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Nov 10, 2023 09:56
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His two over throws moving off platform to clear a free rusher, terrace Marshall stopping on a route again and one bad read on a linebacker in a disguised drop back. Oh the horror! An 8 game vet threw 1 almost interception. The running backs contributed 25 yards for an average of 1.9 loving yards per carry and the receivers dropped 9 catchable balls. BlindSite fucked around with this message at 11:19 on Nov 10, 2023 |
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Nov 10, 2023 11:16
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Relentlessboredomm posted:I’m going to point out that Andy Dalton started one full game for the Panthers this year which was their highest point total of the year: 27 pts DJ chark housed a 50 yarder out of nothing matched on a linebacker. Dalton still averaged 5.5 that game. The offense is anaemic. The line also gave up like 4 pressures that game. It helps you find receivers if you're not under duress up the middle immediately. The longest gain this game was 44 yards to someone who'll be in the usfl in 6 months.
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Nov 10, 2023 11:47
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AndrewP posted:He needs to just start letting it rip early. Interceptions are bad but sacks are somehow more demoralizing to me for rookies. He converted 3 3rd downs and 3 4th downs by getting outside the pocket and creating. Hes hesitating at the top of his drop because everyone's covered.
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Nov 10, 2023 21:24
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His drop back has slowed a little in the last few weeks and I thnk its a coaching decision. He's still reaching the top of his drop with receivers with their backs turned to him and not even close to out of coverage. When you watch the wide clips its really egregious how slow the route concepts develop and how slow the receivers are. The only guy with any speed is Chark and he's been on a very limited pitch count because he's made of glass. Doltos posted:Watching a whole Panthers game for the first time thoughts: I addressed this above. McAdoo ran a power man to man scheme that worked extremely well, now they're running zone concepts. They built the offensive line last year to do that well and it worked well and then wholesale changed the protection and run blocking scheme. They've also had to change the interior personnel around a lot in the games this year because the starting guards and presumptive starting guards have been injured.
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Nov 10, 2023 22:18
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MikeCrotch posted:In response to the question about "why is Bryce supposed to be good" coming out - combo of arm talent and decision making plus in particular one of the best anticipation throwers as a prospect ever. Which is a problem when you're attempting to throw to guys who never actually get open so there's nothing to anticipate Bryce makes his mistakes as every rookie does, but I see a whole lot of it's 3rd and 9 because there's two failed runs - currently the run game is averagine 2.1 ypc 33 year old possession receiver, rookie possession receiver, 3rd year never will be possession receiver listing up field stride for stride with the corner on a year 2000 rear end route concept High angle shows no one close to open or seperating free rusher busts through the middle of the offensive line Bryce throws one as late as possible gets loving decked ball is in the air while the receiver isn't even in their break. Ball hits receiver in the hands and ends up in complete. Punt team trots out "MAN BRYCE SUCKS" in the thread.
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Nov 11, 2023 00:05
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Sour Diesel posted:that sucks for the panthers and might end up being a leaf/manning kinda thing. even if stroud falls off and it's not that comparable, the resources to acquire bryce puts the team in a poo poo spot for a while. then after all of that it turns out the owner is impulsive and hands on in a bad way. it's bleak. At least the Jags, Dolphins and Bengals realised they needed to fix their protection and get some receiver help and did so within two years for all three of their QBs. Remains to be seen if the Panthers are capable of doing anything close to that though.
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Nov 11, 2023 01:40
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Tua might crack 5000 and 40+ TDs at his current rate. Him, Mahomes and Lamar are probably going to be hard to run down.
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Nov 13, 2023 09:18
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