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Android Apocalypse posted:Genuinely curious if any team will take a flyer on Fields, even as a backup. Chiefs will be in the market for a backup next year
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Oct 16, 2023 20:28
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Relentlessboredomm posted:Must see tv yeah thats genuinely the most interesting game of the week now
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Oct 16, 2023 20:30
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pillsburysoldier posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVOv3b3cYTQ Not to tldr this, but is there a summary of the 1.25h video?
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Oct 16, 2023 20:38
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Daniel Jones zone https://twitter.com/fball_insights/status/1713964604672405790?s=20
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Oct 16, 2023 20:47
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wandler20 posted:Daniel Jones zone It's great seeing Jones, Watson, Cousins, and Russ in the same Quadrant of Suck.
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Oct 16, 2023 20:50
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The rare QB advanced metric x-y plot where Kirk isn't dead center
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Oct 16, 2023 20:53
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Kalli posted:Of course they will. Backup QB is a land of retreads and no hopers, he'll have plenty of suitors who want to see if they can unfuck him, as will Zach Wilson, as will Mac Jones.
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Oct 16, 2023 20:59
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Whenever I think of all the chances Josh Rosen got I still laugh. The funniest thing was every single chance was 'this is a place you will never succeed in even if you did have anything going for you, which you don't.' Just the most absolutely doomed career from every possible direction.
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Oct 16, 2023 21:10
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I would like to mention at this point that Christian Ponder was on 3 teams after the Vikings.
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Oct 16, 2023 21:13
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Tyler Bray was an NFL QB on rosters for 8 years and he completed 1 career regular season pass
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Oct 16, 2023 21:19
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wandler20 posted:Daniel Jones zone Man I hate football stats stuff, they always do cutesy stupid poo poo like reversing the x axis here so it goes down from left to right which is counter to how every x axis is displayed. Would’ve loved the dead money being displayed here too so everyone can see how much we’re still paying Brady in Tampa
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Oct 16, 2023 21:34
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Relentlessboredomm posted:Man I hate football stats stuff, they always do cutesy stupid poo poo like reversing the x axis here so it goes down from left to right which is counter to how every x axis is displayed. if i tried to get into the head of the psycho that does that, i would guess that he thinks everyone is used to 'the quadrant of suck' being on the bottom left and so hes trying to align it with those other plot charts
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Oct 16, 2023 21:41
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FAT32 SHAMER posted:Not to tldr this, but is there a summary of the 1.25h video? Running backs are getting paid less not because of the natural innovation in how football is played but because of rule changes such as protecting defenseless receivers and increased roughing the passer calls. Those rule changes were ostensibly for player safety but the NFL clearly doesn't care about player safety (see artificial turf, adding game to the season) and so the real reason was to depress the wages of black running backs in favor of white and white coded QBs. Also like, a lot of communist boiler plate.
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Oct 16, 2023 21:42
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Borsche69 posted:if i tried to get into the head of the psycho that does that, i would guess that he thinks everyone is used to 'the quadrant of suck' being on the bottom left and so hes trying to align it with those other plot charts Oh I get the logic but there are other ways to get there (like just putting a transparent overlay to name each quadrant). It’s just overthinking poo poo like football stats always does. And I’ve beaten this drum before but any stat especially EPA on a limited sample size (like 6 games) is absolutely garbage. Semi related (burrows in the quadrant of suck bc he’s been injured) but watching Hurts play like poo poo when his o-line wasn’t S tier just reminded me how good Burrow is because he’s forever played behind a garbage o-line and has done his thing regardless.
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Oct 16, 2023 21:48
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wandler20 posted:Daniel Jones zone I like the Mac Jones / Desmond Ridder / Josh Dobbs collection of guys on their rookie deals who haven't quite figured it out yet. https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/stats/mac-jones-zach-wilson.php Also, has anyone seen Zach Wilson and Mac Jones in the same room?
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Oct 16, 2023 22:19
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Blue on yellow tonight https://twitter.com/chargers/status/1714013740528783827?t=RygCAFxirfkBNMpvqiR-zw&s=19
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Oct 16, 2023 22:21
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Nice.
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Oct 16, 2023 22:25
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a neat cape posted:Blue on yellow tonight Ooh, pretty.
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Oct 16, 2023 22:25
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:The Pats mediocre receivers and Parkers no-good-very-bad drop got me to thinking; excluding QBs, who is the worst player that stuck around undeservedly as a starter? Like who is the most mediocre journeyman skill player that just had a much longer career than they had any right to. And I don't mean big stars that fell off and stuck around past their expiration date. Someone who was never really that good to begin with. Mark Sanchez should have never been drafted before the fourth round or given a four year leash. Rex Ryan was an amazing coach for getting any wins with him.
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Oct 16, 2023 22:32
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wandler20 posted:Daniel Jones zone What this chart is telling me is there's basically no correlation between pay and performance. I wonder what it looks like when garbage time is included?
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Oct 16, 2023 22:36
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Patrick Spens posted:Running backs are getting paid less not because of the natural innovation in how football is played but because of rule changes such as protecting defenseless receivers and increased roughing the passer calls. Those rule changes were ostensibly for player safety but the NFL clearly doesn't care about player safety (see artificial turf, adding game to the season) and so the real reason was to depress the wages of black running backs in favor of white and white coded QBs. Also like, a lot of communist boiler plate. You can scream this all you want but so many chucklefucks fall for the NFL's attack on players contracts' in general under the guise of knowing a lot about football. Every year people stumble into the draft thread and puke up the opinion that you should never draft a RB early which is exactly what the NFL wants. I made this post in the last thread but the rookie wage scale was one of the dumbest things a union ever agreed to. Instead of doing the correct thing, which was arguing for more revenue share, they did a gently caress you got mine to rookies assuming that all their positions would stay valuable. Now instead of everyone making a lot of money and positions staying valuable, the NFL can slowly depreciate the perceived value of most of the positions in football. If you act like safeties, RBs, guards, defensive tackles, and linebackers are all worth less than skill position you can just easily replace them with rookies on cheap contracts drafted later on. This means that teams can stay low on their spending and only allocate resources to franchise changers instead of paying veterans for similar or better production. Since sports outcomes don't matter to billionaires and competition is a ratio of spending and saving they can effectively pretend that positions are less valuable while shaping the game that way. Pretty soon every position is going to go through losing their jobs to underpaid rookies. Its remarkable how easy it was for NFL ownership to gaslight players and fans by letting them play on greed and know-it-allism respectively.
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Oct 16, 2023 22:38
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wandler20 posted:Daniel Jones zone Top right: rookie Super Bowl window QBs Top left: veteran mega-deal QBs bottom left: OMG WHY DID YOU PAY DANIEL JONES ALL THAT MONEY
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Oct 16, 2023 22:44
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Doltos posted:
I think a more generous framing is the nfl taking advantage of “stick to sports”. If you’re forming an opinion about what a team can do in the front office for the laundry to win this year, then the incremental cap dollar spent on rb/safety/dt/lb is less efficient than same on wr. But if that sounds like a thing an insane short term focused robot who doesn’t care about people’s lives would say, well, yeah. The sports media complex builds analysts that focus on this, teams employ analysts and limit their roles to those kinds of mathy calculations without thinking about the health of the league, and then the only people who are supposed to be thinking about the long term, the owners and the PA, are just out for their own money. It’s kinda like the nba and player rest I think, it’s the difference between what’s optimal for this team in the context of the sport (winning, this year or in the next couple) vs what’s optimal for the people who play it (equitable distribution of money) or the league itself fake e: which i guess is to say, you're right about the union and the rookie wage scale, but i think the media analysis part is a product of "stick to sports" rather than active ignorance or malice Phobeste fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Oct 16, 2023 |
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Oct 16, 2023 22:54
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a rookie wage scale would only make sense for players if they became RFA after year 2 and could be extended after 1. but the draft should be abolished anyway. e: I wonder how much of the NFL's reluctance to let go of the draft has to do with it being a multi-day tv and live event that you couldn't replicate or monetize if it were just teams negotiating indigi fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Oct 16, 2023 |
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Oct 16, 2023 22:59
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Phobeste posted:I think a more generous framing is the nfl taking advantage of “stick to sports”. If you’re forming an opinion about what a team can do in the front office for the laundry to win this year, then the incremental cap dollar spent on rb/safety/dt/lb is less efficient than same on wr. Funny enough a study by the NBA is saying load management doesn't really do anything. Yeah it's a study by the NBA and the new TV contract has the head honchos wanting players to play at least 65 games a year, but it's still an interesting thing to note.
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Oct 16, 2023 23:00
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Android Apocalypse posted:Funny enough a study by the NBA is saying load management doesn't really do anything. Yeah it's a study by the NBA and the new TV contract has the head honchos wanting players to play at least 65 games a year, but it's still an interesting thing to note. the pull quote from Dumars is hilarious quote:We’ve gotten more data, and it just doesn’t show that resting, sitting guys out correlates with lack of injuries, or fatigue, or anything like that. What it does show is maybe guys aren’t as efficient on the second night of a back-to-back. guys aren't impacted by playing more often they just become less efficient for unknown reasons that don't have to do with fatigue
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Oct 16, 2023 23:04
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Doltos posted:You can scream this all you want but so many chucklefucks fall for the NFL's attack on players contracts' in general under the guise of knowing a lot about football. Every year people stumble into the draft thread and puke up the opinion that you should never draft a RB early which is exactly what the NFL wants. Ok but none of this actually has any effect on what the owners pay. You’re right that it fucks mediocre vets in favor of big stars. The only motivation the owners have for a rookie cap is specifically competition: they don’t want to tie up a lot of their cap on guys who don’t contribute. It doesn’t save them a dime The players’ big disadvantage is that apart from total percentage of revenue, there isn’t any plank for them to stand on that benefits every player. They’re fractious from the get go because Patrick Mahomes doesn’t have any interests in common with a 4th round RB
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Oct 16, 2023 23:06
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yeah but there are more 4th round RBs than there are Patrick Mahomeses so they should be able to outvote him
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Oct 16, 2023 23:07
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DeimosRising posted:Ok but none of this actually has any effect on what the owners pay. You’re right that it fucks mediocre vets in favor of big stars. The only motivation the owners have for a rookie cap is specifically competition: they don’t want to tie up a lot of their cap on guys who don’t contribute. It doesn’t save them a dime It absolutely saves them money in the long run because instead of arguing for a bigger revenue share they re-allocated the funds towards established skill positions. I don't know what they tried to do but it sure doesn't seem like they tried to argue for a bigger revenue share. It's already pathetic they're at 44%, loving over rookies doesn't help that and it causes vets to still sign minimum deals to get jobs.
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Oct 16, 2023 23:11
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the subject is very far in the past now but brandon lafell played 9 years and was almost always WR2 or 3 rather than a gadget guy. and what this is about, is when someone asked about the most mediocre starter to stick around a long time who wasn't a quarterback. thank you
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Oct 16, 2023 23:16
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Android Apocalypse posted:Funny enough a study by the NBA is saying load management doesn't really do anything. Yeah it's a study by the NBA and the new TV contract has the head honchos wanting players to play at least 65 games a year, but it's still an interesting thing to note. yeah that's what made me think of it. that study is emblematic to me of the league not being able to figure out a way to completely legislate rest games out of the league and trying to come up with small words (well, in this case big words) they think the dunces on the computers will understand, like a parent trying to reason with a child about not having ice cream for every meal (in their eyes, anyway). but the team analysts are still gonna try to do it unless you can really convince them, even if it's bad for the league, because their jobs are about winning more games and championships this year, not making sure the league's viewership and revenue grow. ditto rb pay - team analytics staffs are told to figure out how to get the laundry to win more games, the media analysts have to think in those terms too, owners are comfortable enough with the nfl's domination that they don't give a poo poo about anything other than the prestige of the team being good, the PA being mostly comprised of guys who are currently in the league was comfortable just smashing the income of guys who were not yet in the league.
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Oct 16, 2023 23:17
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that bone they threw into this latest deal when it looked like it wasn't gonna get approved of adding 100k to minimums across the board was devious and it's a shame it worked
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Oct 16, 2023 23:18
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DeimosRising posted:Ok but none of this actually has any effect on what the owners pay. You’re right that it fucks mediocre vets in favor of big stars. The only motivation the owners have for a rookie cap is specifically competition: they don’t want to tie up a lot of their cap on guys who don’t contribute. It doesn’t save them a dime Doltos posted:It absolutely saves them money in the long run because instead of arguing for a bigger revenue share they re-allocated the funds towards established skill positions. I don't know what they tried to do but it sure doesn't seem like they tried to argue for a bigger revenue share. yeah something the nfl's been great at in cba negotiations is pouring in enough poo poo for the pa to have to push back on that they can whittle away the structurally important stuff in favor of backing down from obvious bad stuff. "oh KAY i GUESS i'll waive my right to punch you in the balls every tuesday and it'll just be monthly, but in exchange i'm gonna need 1% of your salary"
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Oct 16, 2023 23:19
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The salary cap is 225 mil if the nfl increased revenue share to even 50/50 (still insane players don't make 60%) each team would have another 65 mil to spend every year and you could afford all your favorite players and another Sam Bradford contract. It's a joke.
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Oct 16, 2023 23:24
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Doltos posted:It absolutely saves them money in the long run because instead of arguing for a bigger revenue share they re-allocated the funds towards established skill positions. I don't know what they tried to do but it sure doesn't seem like they tried to argue for a bigger revenue share. I mean if you feel like they spent resources on fighting against the owners for a rookie scale that would have swayed the fight for revenue share I guess. Part of the problem there (and it’s more or less impossible for us to know if it’s true) is the most influential players in the room are the stars with long tenures. Most members of the union aren’t in the league long enough to achieve much power in the union. And to some extent, maybe, they’d rather get a bigger chunk of a smaller pie, narrowly benefitting themselves maybe even at the expense of future stars. Sadly those divisions are always going to exist between players and the owners will always be in lockstep.
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Oct 16, 2023 23:26
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Cavauro posted:the subject is very far in the past now but brandon lafell played 9 years and was almost always WR2 or 3 rather than a gadget guy. and what this is about, is when someone asked about the most mediocre starter to stick around a long time who wasn't a quarterback. thank you Super Bowl Champion Brandon LaFell 
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Oct 16, 2023 23:39
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another problem is that the player reps got the NFLPA to simply hand Goodell ultimate authority over player discipline for free - in between CBA negotiations. so in addition to agreeing to the rookie scale they gave up another huge bargaining chip for free. they really suck as a union
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Oct 16, 2023 23:45
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DeimosRising posted:Part of the problem there (and it’s more or less impossible for us to know if it’s true) is the most influential players in the room are the stars with long tenures. Most members of the union aren’t in the league long enough to achieve much power in the union. And to some extent, maybe, they’d rather get a bigger chunk of a smaller pie, narrowly benefitting themselves maybe even at the expense of future stars. Sadly those divisions are always going to exist between players and the owners will always be in lockstep. I believe this is part of the problem with why the MLBPA who was viewed as the strongest players union forever fell flat on their face over the last decade or so. Now we're in a situation where guys making money want to keep making money and get a few concessions, other guys are signing sub-par contracts early for their talent level or waiting 7 years before they get a chance to negotiate. Then it's like...well you're old now so you don't get a long term deal. We will completely ignore the minor leagues here.
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Oct 16, 2023 23:46
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FAT32 SHAMER posted:Not to tldr this, but is there a summary of the 1.25h video? Its 5/8ths hours if you use 2x speed
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Oct 16, 2023 23:48
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Grittybeard posted:I believe this is part of the problem with why the MLBPA who was viewed as the strongest players union forever fell flat on their face over the last decade or so. Now we're in a situation where guys making money want to keep making money and get a few concessions, other guys are signing sub-par contracts early for their talent level or waiting 7 years before they get a chance to negotiate. Then it's like...well you're old now so you don't get a long term deal. I can't believe how bad the MLB system is. these guys spend their athletic prime making a fraction of what they're worth
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Oct 16, 2023 23:54
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