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Mr. Nice! posted:It really does. Education about the history of horrible colonizer/settler action against Palestine is why these events are happening today. This poo poo has been going on for almost a hundred years now. My bad, I just worry about things devolving into a internet shouting match and the thread getting gassed like the GBS one.
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Oct 11, 2023 16:23
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Diarrhea Elemental posted:We're talking about people who within living memory had their poo poo taken away by force and had their own country turned into an apartheid state against them, with every ugly indignity and outrage possible visited on them constantly. Who exactly is shocked when some of those people absolutely lose their poo poo and, not being morally justified but in a completely unsurprising turn, take out all of that in any direction possible and in the most unspeakable of ways? And if we see a follow-up post: For the record, I agree with you. But I also think three things can be true simultaneously: 1) Israelis and Palestinians are both native to the contemporary area of Israel and Palestine and in a perfect world they'd both live peacefully among each other and we wouldn't be having this discussion. 2) As was already pointed eloquently, the Israeli government has pursued a policy of colonization inside of Palestine and Israelis living within Palestinian territory are colonizers. Israelis living within Israel are not "colonizers" 3) The Israeli government's policy of containment and apartheid particularly toward Gaza has been an absolute humanitarian and security failure.
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Oct 11, 2023 16:29
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I'm just saying- Israel looks like it was founded by Ethnoreligious based ethnic cleansing, and has been engaging in pretty blatant settler colonialism over its entire history, and is engaging in behavior that would've made Apartheid South Afrika and Rhodesia Proud in how it treats its minorities (not just palestinean, but african and "not the right kind of jewish" as well), and has been gradually taken over by hardliners of the worst stripe. I couldn't condemn the Palestineans or Hamas for acting against that, as much as I could condemn MK or the ANC or T'oussaint l'ouveture or Nat Turner or ZANU/ZIPRA. Edit: I also do not condone any atrocities, but I think we need to have confirmed atrocities and not just sensationalized reports used to justify Israel turning Gaza into the world's largest children and old folk's graveyard. And, by all means, we should condemn evil acts done by Hamas- but we should also condemn the evil acts done by Israel. Fivemarks fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Oct 11, 2023 |
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Oct 11, 2023 16:29
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Pine Cone Jones posted:My bad, I just worry about things devolving into a internet shouting match and the thread getting gassed like the GBS one. I don't think that will happen because of different moderation rules/guidelines etc. Ultimately this is an extremely delicate topic, and there's not a lot of good outcomes. Palestinians have been treated as less than people for nearly a century by pretty much the rest of the world, and the modern Israeli state has been working to actively eradicate them. It's reasonable for people put in such a situation to react in extreme ways. The actions of Israel, the British, and the United States over the past century are the proximate cause of Hamas, Hezbollah, and any of the attacks they have committed. I cannot say that atrocities should be condoned, but we should always strive to understand the reasons behind the actors' motives. The bottom line is that modern Israel is an apartheid state, and they will not be satisfied until they have eliminated the Palestinians in whole. I think more than anything, we need to make sure that people know the facts of what's going on. There has been a lot of sensational reports that have zero corroboration, and those are being used to justify further atrocities. It all really sucks, and I can't think of a good way for any of this to end.
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Oct 11, 2023 16:30
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ANYWAY, the entire northern region and basically down the the Haifa line is lit up with alerts about aircraft intrusions and there are already rumors of paragliders or similar. Nothing confirmed yet but it seems like it may be a big deal. e: basically everyone in this area has been instructed to take shelter immediately:  e2: still nothing concrete, but it's starting to look like a combined rockets / UAVs / paragliders attack. VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV e3: This is the official emergency alert portal for the homeland defense (is that the right translation??), the alerts are differentiated between aircraft intrusion, rocket attack, manned intrusion, etc. The northern region has separate alerts for all three types that I listed. Don't Ask fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Oct 11, 2023 |
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Oct 11, 2023 16:33
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Don't Ask posted:ANYWAY, the entire northern region and basically down the the Haifa line is lit up with alerts about aircraft intrusions and there are already rumors of paragliders or similar. Nothing confirmed yet but it seems like it may be a big deal. I assume that Israeli RADAR/sensors are capable of seeing the difference between rockets, paragliders, and/or drones. Do we know if they issued a general "take shelter, stuff is in the air" alert or a specific alert about "guys on paragliders" or whatever? Can we expect confirmation later on from the Israeli military (like what us Americans often do) or will we have to rely on normal reporting from news agencies?
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Oct 11, 2023 16:46
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Periodic reminder to keep it civil and if you feel yourself getting heated - understandable considering the subject - put the phone down and go take a breath outside. The poster you were about to call an rear end in a top hat will still be there in ten minutes. Nobody in this thread has any control over the ongoing events. Nobody in this thread is trolling or arguing in bad faith, and if they are, they’re getting bounced as soon as a mod or IK becomes aware. As usual, post about current events, not current posters.
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Oct 11, 2023 16:52
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ASAPI posted:I assume that Israeli RADAR/sensors are capable of seeing the difference between rockets, paragliders, and/or drones. Do we know if they issued a general "take shelter, stuff is in the air" alert or a specific alert about "guys on paragliders" or whatever? How the hell did they collect up enough paragliders to use them for an ongoing assault?
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Oct 11, 2023 17:12
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Well the one thing, if nothing else, we can all take away from this conflict is that powered paragliders are mad dope.
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Oct 11, 2023 17:16
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Crab Dad posted:How the hell did they collect up enough paragliders to use them for an ongoing assault? Disregarding state sponsors, Wish, Ali Baba, Temu, or General commercial market. You can find videos reviewing them on YT.
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Oct 11, 2023 17:16
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Crab Dad posted:How the hell did they collect up enough paragliders to use them for an ongoing assault? I'm finding myself more and more interested in things like this. I'm really looking forward to the writeups to come explaining how Hamas set up a makeshift air force via wish.
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Oct 11, 2023 17:24
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I can't really demonstrate just how hosed up the information environment is right now: https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1712142609043316809?t=7ikQ9af4EV9V41sHx1bMKw&s=19 https://twitter.com/Harbpeace/status/1712141574426026312?t=Dm1Bo1ChLXedsHr5yA_9XQ&s=19
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Oct 11, 2023 17:29
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Yeah, I try to make sure to separate between known facts (ie - the official alert system has issued such and such alerts) and unknowns (ie mutant terrorists from Mars attacking using paragliders). A lot of word-of-mouth about hearing gunfire, unusual aircraft activity and so on, but nothing official yet. That said, there is an official standing notice from the homeland or w/e office to get indoors and dim the lights for everyone in the region marked in my previous post, so something is happening.
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Oct 11, 2023 17:37
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facialimpediment posted:I can't really demonstrate just how hosed up the information environment is right now: Well as long as we've got X.com posts that still say twitter.com because Apartheid Clyde is both a stupid rear end in a top hat and that far in the tank of other right wing assholes I doubt it's going to be improving any time soon. There are more than a few actors, state level and non, that flourish in this exact kind of information environment and will fellate his ego all day every day for making it happen as well as keeping it going.
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Oct 11, 2023 18:17
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...uh so apparently nearly all the alerts regarding the northern region were false alarms caused by an "error". Official notice put out by the IDF spokesperson: lol sorry click for source I wonder just how many people in Israel, Syria, Lebanon, Iran, and the US fleet nearby were thinking this is it, now poo poo will really start going down Don't Ask fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Oct 11, 2023 |
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Oct 11, 2023 18:25
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CNN reporting that US intelligence officials claim Iran was surprised to learn of Hamas's attack. https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/11/politics/us-intelligence-iran-hamas-doubt/index.html
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Oct 11, 2023 18:27
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not caring here posted:Well the one thing, if nothing else, we can all take away from this conflict is that powered paragliders are mad dope. I'd better see the C&C Generals mod for this soon
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Oct 11, 2023 18:30
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Soylent Pudding posted:CNN reporting that US intelligence officials claim Iran was surprised to learn of Hamas's attack. It’s not impossible that part of the Iranian government helped, but it’s also not impossible that they didn’t. I’m leaning towards they didn’t, because they’re such a popular bogeyman, but I’d put it as “unconfirmed” until we get anything solid either way.
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Oct 11, 2023 19:14
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Soylent Pudding posted:CNN reporting that US intelligence officials claim Iran was surprised to learn of Hamas's attack. Some of this is reminding me of the early hours of 9/11 where random terrorist groups would claim responsibility, then realize the extent of the attack and go "lol nm" a little while later as it would've been clear that American retaliation was coming. That whole region and the relevant terrorist/insurgent groups are kinda figuring out in real time just how froggy they want to get. Also why Biden/Brits/et al are very vocally going NOT NOW HEZBOLLAH
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Oct 11, 2023 19:17
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Mr. Nice! posted:I’m friends with a guy whose parents are Palestinian refugees, and he’s really struggling as close friends are calling for his people’s genocide. My cousin's wife is Palestinian-American. I can't imagine she or her family, wonderful folks all, are enjoying things right now.
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Oct 11, 2023 19:26
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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:You're suggesting that we should believe in the goodwill of loving hamas of all people not to commit atrocities? Yeah. There's been confirmation of many atrocities. Including beheadings. Including beheadings of kids. Who knows if it was post mortem or not. A few pictures of cribs spattered with blood, pictures of burned bodies burnt to skeletons, dead pets, what looks like entire dead families. There's also videos out there of Hamas supporters showing and laughing at pictures of dead Israelis. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-babies-killed-hamas-terror-attack-kibbutz-kfar-aza-first-responders-say/
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Oct 11, 2023 20:19
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We're really on the "Beheadings of babies" thing again, after that was proven false?
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Oct 11, 2023 20:28
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Move on from the dead babies unless a major news source confirms or disproves it, thank you.
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Oct 11, 2023 20:40
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Just saw your post. Edited to conform to the ruling.
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Oct 11, 2023 20:43
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Hey, I don't know what's behind those twitter warnings, but I think it's a real bad idea to post that poo poo in line. You're likely to catch a probation or a ban for it. e: you edited it out - but seriously, please don't post any gore from twitter in here to prove any point. You can post a link with a warning of what is behind it, but please do not inline that.
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Oct 11, 2023 20:44
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Mr. Nice! posted:Hey, I don't know what's behind those twitter warnings, but I think it's a real bad idea to post that poo poo in line. You're likely to catch a probation or a ban for it. It was text only, and French, at that. I would never post photos or anything of the sort. Also here's probably the last word on the beheading of kids. If it happened or not, we'll never know for sure, but I trust the reporters who have said they verified it. And even if it's bullshit, there's still plenty of evidence of dead babies and little kids. https://www.businessinsider.com/idf-says-wont-back-up-beheaded-babies-disrespectful-2023-10
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Oct 11, 2023 20:51
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IDF is denying it. https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.s...israel-12982329 Stuart Ramsay interviewed two IDF majors - one of whom was a spokesman. Ramsay said: "At no point did either he, or the other major I spoke to, ever mention that Hamas had beheaded or killed 40 babies or children. I believe that if it were the case, they would have told me and others there. "There is no doubt that a horrific attack took place at Kfar Aza, and it needed to be reported, and we did see the bodies of the dead from the community in their houses, in the back of a truck, and on the basketball court. "But it's important to separate the facts from speculation in a situation like this. "To reiterate - the IDF had every opportunity to inform the world's media of any story that had become apparent as the military continue to clear up the kibbutz. The murder and beheading of 40 children was never mentioned to me or my team."
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Oct 11, 2023 20:51
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Bored As gently caress posted:It was text only, and French, at that. I would never post photos or anything of the sort. I appreciate that. All I saw were twitter embeds with sensitive content behind them, and I did not click. I just don't want to see a poster get themselves whacked because of an argument about something.
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Oct 11, 2023 21:00
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Definitely understandable. I'll explain what it is next time I link a twitter post.
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Oct 11, 2023 21:02
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Yeah reading a bunch of different mainstream reports it seems like the Hamas dudes rolled through a bunch of towns and villages close to the border and killed people indiscriminately but, like with guns not beheadings. Nobody is really printing the beheading thing except as secondhand statements. Although to a dead kid I suppose the manner of execution doesn't really matter much.
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Oct 11, 2023 21:02
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To those that find the dead, it doesn't matter, either. It still fucks them up.
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Oct 11, 2023 21:04
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I think fundamentally we can agree that people, and by extension ethnicity and also by extension religion, were a huge loving mistake. I’m half Native American and Half Jewish, and I just want us ALL to live happily and prosperously in a safe world of dignity and respect, and most of all kindness. No bomb, bullet, knife, or tank is going to cure this ailment, we’re going to have to change all those variables. I don’t know that we are evolved enough psychologically/mentally/biologically to do so, however. So, Gaza Strip בוגאלו חשמלי 2
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Oct 11, 2023 21:58
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On second thoughts, burn it all down.
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Oct 11, 2023 22:09
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Are paragliders technicals?
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Oct 11, 2023 22:41
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Radical 90s Wizard posted:Are paragliders technicals? Eventually this thread will tackle hard questions like this. It's still warming up, ask again in about 10 pages.
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Oct 11, 2023 23:00
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Radical 90s Wizard posted:Are paragliders technicals? I would argue that the ultra-light aircraft Hamas used, carrying a gunner in the front, counts as much as the Biafra Babies did. A powered paraglider used for military purposes is still just a dude wearing a parachute and rifle. A trooperpara, if you like.
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Oct 11, 2023 23:05
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Radical 90s Wizard posted:Are paragliders technicals? Technically
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Oct 11, 2023 23:19
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Radical 90s Wizard posted:Are paragliders technicals? Air cav
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Oct 11, 2023 23:25
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Radical 90s Wizard posted:Are paragliders technicals? imo only if there is a second non-pilot person on the gun and the gun is mounted to the glider in some way
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Oct 11, 2023 23:26
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What if the paraglider dropped grenades? What if he did it by opening a box that was taped to something structural
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Oct 12, 2023 00:45
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