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not a value-add
Jan 17, 2019

I do think there’s an interesting question related to Stringent’s post, which is if these kind of low intensity operations are legitimately effective as a stand alone measure, or if they just end up generating favorable PR for whoever is on the receiving end. They have been part of America’s recent response to the militia groups in Iraq, but my impression with that was most of the work was done through actual negotiations. If you don’t have a line of communication already built are these just a fool’s errand?

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not a value-add
Jan 17, 2019

I wouldn’t downplay last night too too much. Despite the rather choreographed nature of the whole thing and extended flight times Iran still put a LOT of stuff in the air for what looks like a decently coordinated ToT.

not a value-add
Jan 17, 2019

Count Roland posted:

The Iranian operation was purely for PR. In that, it wasn't intended to militarily degrade Israel.

Iran and Israel have been fighting a shadow war for many years now. This includes airstrikes, assassinations, bombings, sabotage and more. Iran decided (not unreasonably) that Israel openly blowing up it's diplomatic building was going to far. Thus, for both domestic and international audiences, they had to make a show of force to dissuade further attacks and not appear weak.

If Iran wanted to cause damage to Israel, or if it wanted to provoke further escalation, they wouldn't have telegraphed the attacks so much. I don't know how this was done, but I shouldn't be reading on twitter about the attack before it happens. Launching slow moving drones from thousands of km away also gives a lot of time to respond.

Really though, the goal is to make Israel think twice about attacking Iran so openly. Given all that's going on, its very hard to say if they succeeded.

I was thinking more of Yemen, but yeah you could probably fit the recent Iranian strike under this umbrella as well. It’s a crowd pleaser but won’t actually deter Israel, the only thing that will do that is some third party telling the Israelis to knock it off.

not a value-add
Jan 17, 2019

Lovely Joe Stalin posted:

Oh I think we'd be dumb enough to take part in trying to mitigate a more serious repetition of the Iranian retaliation. But it seems to have been made pretty emphatically clear that if Israel wants to attack Iran to provoke that further response, they can provoke it alone.

This isn’t enough to deter Israel. I’m almost positive they think the US would go “Aw shucks!” and proceed to fight Iran for them anyway down to the last American. Israel only really responds to threats (when it’s not having a violent meltdown instead).

not a value-add fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Apr 16, 2024

not a value-add
Jan 17, 2019

Israel flying through Iraq to bomb Iran seems like it would be politically unworkable within Iraq. You’d see an immediate escalation of the militia attacks on coalition forces that just stopped. You couldn’t make it 48 hours into that thing without the situation in the region rapidly deteriorating, and that’s assuming no other big players get involved. Russia got involved in Syria. I’d bet you they’d get involved here.

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not a value-add
Jan 17, 2019

Exactly. Israel might not care about the OIR collation, but Iran does, especially if those forces thwart Iranian counterattacks. And Russia wouldn’t get involved in Iraq, but they might try to defend Iran. What exactly that would look like I’m not sure, but I doubt they would just sit around and let all this happen.

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