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Handsome Ralph
Sep 3, 2004

Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!


Nick Soapdish posted:

https://twitter.com/AuroraIntel/status/1711839404723953963

Why would CENTCOM announce the arrival of the Ford Strike Group when Israel is in EUCOM's AOR?

Israel was moved into CENTCOM's AOR 2 years ago.

https://www.defensenews.com/global/mideast-africa/2021/09/07/us-central-command-absorbs-israel-into-its-area-of-responsibility/

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Handsome Ralph
Sep 3, 2004

Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!


https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1711913141934645757?s=20

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-urges-israeli-leader-minimize-civilian-casualties-war-hamas-rcna119826

Handsome Ralph
Sep 3, 2004

Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!


McNally posted:

Ok, I'm convinced.

gently caress off and don't come back to this thread. No last word on the matter, no goodbye. Just gently caress all the way off.

I'm glad I bought you that beer in Edinburgh.

Anyways, thanks for making this subfourm a bearable place to keep up with this stuff. It honestly means a lot.

bulletsponge13 posted:

The problem is, Fivemarks has a valid points.

Isreal has spent decades doing the EXACT same poo poo as Hamas, and it gets a public pass because they have better PR. The view must be applied across both sides. Otherwise, this turns into a Fox News version of the Iraq War. THEY set the rules of engagement over the years. Hamas should conduct themselves better, but they won't as long as they feel justified by their enemy.

I don't think anyone here is giving the IDF or Israel a pass or pretending they are the "good" guys here. I don't disagree that the public narrative leans heavily in favor of giving Israel a pass or pretending that they're the reasonable party in all of this, but I don't see anyone here cheering them on.

Handsome Ralph
Sep 3, 2004

Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!


pantslesswithwolves posted:

I can understand, empathize and agree with taking up arms against an occupier. Resistance is a natural right. Where you lose me is the wholesale slaughter of non-combatants and deliberate targeting of civilians. That's not resistance, it's terrorism and a war crime. That isn't meant to handwave away what Israel is doing with its airstrikes and cutting off food, water and fuel to Gaza. Both sides have plenty of blood on their hands and I feel for the innocent Palestinians and Israeli citizens who will bear the punishment for their leaders' crimes.

This is 100% where I am with it.

Handsome Ralph
Sep 3, 2004

Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!


Kesper North posted:

Israel has ordered 1.1 million people to evacuate northern Gaza within 24 hours, a totally realistic and not at all insane proposal

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-hamas-war-c8b4fc20e4fd2ef381d5edb7e9e8308c

JFC.

Handsome Ralph
Sep 3, 2004

Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!


NBC took their time with I'm presuming verifying this as this has been floating around Israeli news and social media since at least Wednesday.

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1712943385424642281?t=kH85CSo0ZSdcwkD3fj4rHA&s=19

Handsome Ralph
Sep 3, 2004

Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!


Discussion Quorum posted:

Not to be outdone by Hamas's child abduction and murder brigade, Israeli officials are turning a big knob labeled "genocide" and not even bothering to look back at the audience

https://twitter.com/therapisthammam/status/1712877548420345989?s=19

:smith:

This loving sucks poo poo and it's never gonna end.

Handsome Ralph
Sep 3, 2004

Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!


Lovely Joe Stalin posted:

The thing that really gets me about the theory of it being a Palestinian weapon is that if Hamas or IJ had anything vaguely that powerful, they would have used it in the initial attack when they knew they were going to saturate Iron Dome. It would have been the perfect time to put it into an actually valuable target. Not now, when rocket fire has become relatively desultory and the Israeli defences are functioning again.

The theory I saw floated was rocket misfire into an ammo dump. Which, yeah sure, that'd be enough to do it.

I still think it's 95% likely that it was the IDF.

Handsome Ralph
Sep 3, 2004

Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!


Kchama posted:

The theory of someone making poo poo up.

Yeah, hence my "I'm still 95% convinced the IDF is behind it". I was just repeating the "explanation" I had seen explaining how one rocket caused an entire hospital to go up. Probably should have been more clear when I posted that. My bad.

Handsome Ralph
Sep 3, 2004

Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!


Don't worry everyone, help is on the way
https://twitter.com/GavinNewsom/status/1715056811936739778

:jerkbag:

Yes, I know worlds fifth largest economy, likely the front runner for 2028, etc etc. Still seems pretty dumb though.

Handsome Ralph
Sep 3, 2004

Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!


Suicide Watch posted:

NYPD used their riot control weapons to headshot protestors leaving some with permanent damage, and Boston PD used a pepper ball gun to kill a bystander back in '04. Plenty harmful despite not being .22s. General rule should be that authorities will always defy doctrine to inflict maximum harm if given the resources.

Oh hey, I remember that night (Boston). It was fuckin' wild because it was basically a bunch of college/high school kids celebrating the Red Sox beating the Yankees in game 7 of the ALCS, and then that happened. I just remember the vibe in the crowd got pretty dark once word spread and my friend and I just went back to her dorm because no one really knew what the gently caress happened beyond "They shot some girl!"

Anyways, they later tried to blame the crowds for her death, not the fact they were firing less than lethal projectiles at people's heads.

Handsome Ralph
Sep 3, 2004

Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!


bulletsponge13 posted:

Al Jeezera is reporting that they were approached by US and Israeli Officials to suppress reporting.

Shortly after, the AJ Gaza Reporter (he had an official big title I can't recall) had his family killed in a targeted strike.

Do you have a source for that? Because while I'm seeing AJ reporting his family was killed (which is loving awful in itself), none of their articles seem to be insinuating that his family was targeted specifically because of his reporting or that they were directly approached to tone down the reporting.

Handsome Ralph fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Oct 28, 2023

Handsome Ralph
Sep 3, 2004

Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!


Discussion Quorum posted:

A good thread.

https://twitter.com/Ruwa4Georgia/status/1719432988113428685?s=19

We are pleased to regret to inform you that you can now receive real-time alerts of your family's deaths. Third-party messaging fees may apply. Reply STOP to unsubscribe.

Sorry to be that guy but because Elon sucks and I don't have a Twitter account anymore, I can't read this. The unroller app only works if you have a premium account now. Could someone do the needful? Thanks!

Handsome Ralph
Sep 3, 2004

Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!


mrmcd posted:

https://nitter.net/Ruwa4Georgia/status/1719432988113428685

It's a bit awkward on mobile but generally replacing twitter.com with nitter.net works.

Awesome, thanks so much!

Handsome Ralph
Sep 3, 2004

Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!


"Five men is a juicy opportunity, one man is a waste of ammo."

I only went as far as Y3 ROTC but even that was hammered into us early on, and we had cadre who had gone to Iraq that told us about units that relearned that lesson the hard way. So yeah, complacency/under estimating Hamas which, you'd think they would stop doing that due to last month's events and yet.

Handsome Ralph
Sep 3, 2004

Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!


Tiny Timbs posted:

Some drivel about the White House expecting Netanyahu's political career to end over the attack on Israel

In fairness, from what friends with family in Israel have said, this isn't too far fetched. The way it was explained to me is people have a "When the immediate crisis is over, he's gotta go"

Also his son being in the US right now is pissing a lot of people off over there apparently.

Handsome Ralph
Sep 3, 2004

Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!


Google Jeb Bush posted:

just wanna say the boatposts were rad

Handsome Ralph
Sep 3, 2004

Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!


BUUNNI posted:

Why did the October attacks catch them completely by surprise then?

It did and it didn't. Numerous analysts were telling the higher ups that something was brewing, and Hamas was up to something involving the border area that they ended up crossing. The higher ups neglected to act on that info for whatever reason.


You can have all the intelligence in the world telling you that something is coming, but it doesn't mean poo poo unless someone in the chain of command decides to act upon it. History is filled with examples of various intelligence agencies seeing warning signs or troop movements and sounding the alarm, only to be ignored till poo poo starts getting real.

Handsome Ralph
Sep 3, 2004

Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!


BUUNNI posted:

This sounds exactly like the genesis of the 9/11 conspiracy theories, which is to say complete BS. Why would any Israeli intel officer worth his salt disregard veritable reports that Hamas was going to mount a devastating attack? These guys receive the very best SIGINT and HUMINT training from the west's military apparatus. We ARE living in a post-9/11 world, after all.

The logical conclusion of the claim that "Israel knew the attacks would happen but the higher ups just refused to do anything" would be that the entirety of the intel officer corps needs to be purged or Israel will suffer more attacks in the future.

Sorry, but I just don't buy that narrative.

You're not getting it. Intelligence analysis and reporting doesn't work that way. Analysts pass up intelligence and analysis to those that decide what to act on. They aren't decision makers. History is filled with examples of intelligence agencies and analysts telling decision makers something fucky is coming their way, only for the decision makers to do little or nothing for a variety of reasons. And I highly doubt the Israelis or anyone in the western intelligence community had a full picture of what was going to occur on 10/7 to begin with. You had a handful of analysts pointing out that Hamas seemed to be prepping for something and they seemed awfully interested in that part of the border. It's very rare that they get a full picture of whatever is coming, and even when something like that happens, the first question usually raised is "Are we only seeing this because our adversary wants us to, because they're trying to get us to make the wrong move?"

It's not a failure of those analysts, it's a failure of the IDF higher ups and Netenyau et al for not acting on any of the information they were provided with.

Handsome Ralph
Sep 3, 2004

Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!


BUUNNI posted:

Alright, I can definitely see your POV better and largely agree with it. It's just frustrating that after all the equipment, intel and training we provide for Israel's Defense Forces they still hosed everything up and now Palestinians are the ones paying most of the price. Thank you for the good discussion.

I'm with you, believe me. It's indefensible that they ignored so many red flags, including the border monitoring stations going dark as cugel pointed out. And you nailed it, the wrong people are paying the price for it. It loving sucks.

Handsome Ralph
Sep 3, 2004

Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!


bulletsponge13 posted:

Haaretz has confirmed only 1 baby was killed on 7 Oct attacks.

Can you post the article saying so? Not directing this at you in particular but I think the "game of telephone" stuff can be easily avoided if people just posted the article where they see particular claims or whatever.

Handsome Ralph
Sep 3, 2004

Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!



Appreciate it, thanks!

Handsome Ralph
Sep 3, 2004

Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!


FWIW, if you as a mod ask for an alt-check, you're just given a yes or no answer by the Admins with little to no elaboration beyond that.

There were a few times when I was a mod that we had asked for alt checks that came back negative, only to to find out some time later that they were indeed an alt because they slipped up somehow. Also being an alt in itself isn't an issue, only when you're doing it to evade a ban or probe.

Handsome Ralph
Sep 3, 2004

Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!





Midjack posted:

I read it every time.

Handsome Ralph
Sep 3, 2004

Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!


She's already stepped aside over a year ago to let Hakeem Jefferies take over the leadership of the Congressional Dems, who the Dems have voted for as speaker in subsequent speaker elections.

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Handsome Ralph
Sep 3, 2004

Oh boy, posting!
That's where I'm a Viking!


Discussion Quorum posted:

God poo poo dammit Joe

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