Ohtori Akio posted:

unwantedplatypus posted:

What should you do, as a communist in the west, to most effectively implement your political ideals?

AxGrap posted:

So what are some practical examples for someone to be involved in politics (welding actual political power) irl. I'd suppose active involvement in a union if you are blessed enough to have that option, and local politics are the most accessible. The levers of power are so far out of reach for the average person it's hard to know where to start besides being an observer and yelling online (praxis).

Chillgamesh posted:

Who took your shift key, OP?

Pentecoastal Elites posted:

this is something I've been thinking about pretty much constantly since bernie's defeat, which by no means was a vehicle of conscious class struggle towards communism or anything like that but what might have been, potentially, something that engendered class consciousness within the morose and decrepit american political landscape. considering bernie post-defeat, maybe it never could have been, but that's neither here nor there.

I think the answer depends a lot on where specifically you are and what capacity you have. there's no left political apparatus in america, full stop. if you're outside of america, maybe things are different. I think maybe there might be local political movements, campaigns, or organizations that you can join but not to further their ends, to find like-minded people and put your heads together and figure out how do so something useful on the micro level. on the larger national and global scales, I think we've seen that a) the left political moment is not here b) it is not here because we have zero institutional capacity and c) that capacity is not going to be built in the post-occupy class-agnostic progressive horizontalist movements and orgs. I think the only place anything resembling a class conscious leftism is going to arise is out of a revitalized militant labor movement, and so I think that in a very general sense the best thing for a communist or other self-identified leftist to do is to organize your workplace or help others to organize theirs. at least imo

Pentecoastal Elites posted:

this is something I've been thinking about pretty much constantly since bernie's defeat, which by no means was a vehicle of conscious class struggle towards communism or anything like that but what might have been, potentially, something that engendered class consciousness within the morose and decrepit american political landscape. considering bernie post-defeat, maybe it never could have been, but that's neither here nor there.

I think the answer depends a lot on where specifically you are and what capacity you have. there's no left political apparatus in america, full stop. if you're outside of america, maybe things are different. I think maybe there might be local political movements, campaigns, or organizations that you can join but not to further their ends, to find like-minded people and put your heads together and figure out how do so something useful on the micro level. on the larger national and global scales, I think we've seen that a) the left political moment is not here b) it is not here because we have zero institutional capacity and c) that capacity is not going to be built in the post-occupy class-agnostic progressive horizontalist movements and orgs. I think the only place anything resembling a class conscious leftism is going to arise is out of a revitalized militant labor movement, and so I think that in a very general sense the best thing for a communist or other self-identified leftist to do is to organize your workplace or help others to organize theirs. at least imo

Ohtori Akio posted:

didnt read

unwantedplatypus posted:

Isn’t this just vulgar unionism which demands greater access to super profits from the global south? How do you engender a principled anti-imperialism from this?

AxGrap posted:

So what are some practical examples for someone to be involved in politics (welding actual political power) irl. I'd suppose active involvement in a union if you are blessed enough to have that option, and local politics are the most accessible. The levers of power are so far out of reach for the average person it's hard to know where to start besides being an observer and yelling online (praxis).

Pentecoastal Elites posted:

I think the only place anything resembling a class conscious leftism is going to arise is out of a revitalized militant labor movement, and so I think that in a very general sense the best thing for a communist or other self-identified leftist to do is to organize your workplace or help others to organize theirs. at least imo

quote:

...
there are things you can control, and things you can't. letting the things you can't take over will only just take you down -- to no one's gain or benefit. I said this before but one of the worst things someone can do to themself is self-flagellation. there is no point to whipping yourself over the global, it's not a self-sacrifice that helps anyone

to the things you actually can control (like helping unionizing your work place, or being there for elderly neighbors, or homeless activism or tenants-rights advocacy, providing resources to palestinian or other marginalized groups, or even just picking up trash in your area), you should definitely pursue them to at least make a difference in your own life and ground yourself to the real. and that will at least help you compartmentalize things you can't control.

The internet is imo a very dangerous device. It gives people the overbearing bombarding frenzy and perception of a global-view and that's never how humans were intended to think or perceive themselves amongst a global hierarchy, like a bioware protagonist. it quite literally drives people to madness when confronted with the overbearing horrors of the global if you can't compartmentalize to your actual tiny minute place in the world.

stumblebum posted:

unionization, even within the context of the imperial core being driven by imperial superprofits, heightens and highlights the class contradictions of society, which is the necessary basis to even begin discussing real marxist communist ("leftist"/"leftism" doesnt really mean anything) organization and politics. when it comes to anti-imperialism, i genuinely believe that by the time a truly militant labor/anticapitalist movement gains power within and over western society there wont be any choice in the matter; the empire will have already been shrunken so far, and the subsequent post-capitalist society so dependent on normalized relations with the rest of the now no longer imperialized world, that "anti-imperialism" ceases to be meaningful as imperialism as a system becomes infeasible if not fully extinct

stumblebum posted:

unionization, even within the context of the imperial core being driven by imperial superprofits, heightens and highlights the class contradictions of society, which is the necessary basis to even begin discussing real marxist communist ("leftist"/"leftism" doesnt really mean anything) organization and politics.

stumblebum posted:

unionization, even within the context of the imperial core being driven by imperial superprofits, heightens and highlights the class contradictions of society, which is the necessary basis to even begin discussing real marxist communist ("leftist"/"leftism" doesnt really mean anything) organization and politics. when it comes to anti-imperialism, i genuinely believe that by the time a truly militant labor/anticapitalist movement gains power within and over western society there wont be any choice in the matter; the empire will have already been shrunken so far, and the subsequent post-capitalist society so dependent on normalized relations with the rest of the now no longer imperialized world, that "anti-imperialism" ceases to be meaningful as imperialism as a system becomes infeasible if not fully extinct

Xaris posted:

yeah. people who focus on phone-banking or whatever for the DNC or even DSA are basically wasting their time. however, there can be local improvements made to the superstructure through local politics and definitely if you can pursue work there, that helps the superstructure (i.e. more accessible transit, bike lanes, improved zoning laws for more poor people to exist). i hate to say it but if you do have a dsa chapter (or other advocacy) that focuses exclusively in the local, that could be worth at least investing time into but it's also not really meaningful in the broader sense.

but local politics still can't really do anything about material conditions and the transactional nature of the system regarding private property. the most meaningful action is to show that exploiting surplus labor value can't go unchecked and must be pushed against. the only way these contradictions will ever be highlighted and heightened is through taking back surplus labor value by force, and visibly and demonstrably so. it at least gets people not even in your union thinking about the idea of exploitation and their own labor. maybe one day collectively they can form a voltron and take down accumulation of capital in a broader sense. my guess is probably not, but who knows. at the very least you got you + workers some extra sick days and pay, that's something tangible to the people within your own sphere

fart simpson posted:

the most left thing you can do is read marx and then slip marxism into conversation at parties with the other project managers your friends with

fart simpson posted:

the most left thing you can do is read marx and then slip marxism into conversation at parties with the other project managers your friends with

AxGrap posted:

Shoplifting, got it.

But really what I'm reading here is trying to act in whatever sphere you have to convince people of an idea (like, many ideas sure) that hopefully becomes more powerful as more people are convinced of its power, and focus on organizing?

Xaris posted:

yeah. people who focus on phone-banking or whatever for the DNC or even DSA are basically wasting their time. however, there can be local improvements made to the superstructure through local politics and definitely if you can pursue work there, that helps the superstructure (i.e. more accessible transit, bike lanes, improved zoning laws for more poor people to exist). i hate to say it but if you do have a dsa chapter (or other advocacy) that focuses exclusively in the local, that could be worth at least investing time into but it's also not really meaningful in the broader sense.

but local politics still can't really do anything about material conditions and the transactional nature of the system regarding private property. the most meaningful action is to show that exploiting surplus labor value can't go unchecked and must be pushed against. the only way these contradictions will ever be highlighted and heightened is through taking back surplus labor value by force, and visibly and demonstrably so. it at least gets people not even in your union thinking about the idea of exploitation and their own labor. maybe one day collectively they can form a voltron and take down accumulation of capital in a broader sense. my guess is probably not, but who knows. at the very least you got you + workers some extra sick days and pay, that's something tangible to the people within your own sphere

Ohtori Akio posted:

especially did not read this one

ikanreed posted:

How to not read Capital and still call yourself a leftist.

Know the key phrases that show up on the Marxism end of year test:
1. Means of production- n. Nvidia GPUs
2. Class struggle - n. When someone with a PhD is wrong online
3. Proletariat - n. Hard working class of people, such as Elon musk, a small business owner, or a landlord
4. Yard of linen- n. A SI unit underlying all others such as the kilogram or second. 1 yard of linen is equal to two yards of linen
5. Socialism - n. a predecessor of the classless communist society characterized primarily by slight changes in the tax code

stumblebum posted:

unionization, even within the context of the imperial core being driven by imperial superprofits, heightens and highlights the class contradictions of society, which is the necessary basis to even begin discussing real marxist communist ("leftist"/"leftism" doesnt really mean anything) organization and politics. when it comes to anti-imperialism, i genuinely believe that by the time a truly militant labor/anticapitalist movement gains power within and over western society there wont be any choice in the matter; the empire will have already been shrunken so far, and the subsequent post-capitalist society so dependent on normalized relations with the rest of the now no longer imperialized world, that "anti-imperialism" ceases to be meaningful as imperialism as a system becomes infeasible if not fully extinct

Brain Candy posted:

basically you can't do anything meaningful except PrEP

stumblebum posted:

unionization, even within the context of the imperial core being driven by imperial superprofits, heightens and highlights the class contradictions of society, which is the necessary basis to even begin discussing real marxist communist ("leftist"/"leftism" doesnt really mean anything) organization and politics. when it comes to anti-imperialism, i genuinely believe that by the time a truly militant labor/anticapitalist movement gains power within and over western society there wont be any choice in the matter; the empire will have already been shrunken so far, and the subsequent post-capitalist society so dependent on normalized relations with the rest of the now no longer imperialized world, that "anti-imperialism" ceases to be meaningful as imperialism as a system becomes infeasible if not fully extinct

croup coughfield posted:

fundamentally, politics is the struggle to determine who gets what. its not about who's good or bad, or right or wrong. these questions dont even enter into the calculus of politics, they're noise. when it comes to deciding who gets what, we have a very helpful word that allows us to short-hand this concept: property. property and its disposition allows society to decide who gets what, who is entitled to the produce of productive land and tools and how that entitlement is enforced. in essence, who is allowed to cultivate land for productive use and what they're allowed to keep of that produce.

following this logic, we can condense things to say that politics is the ongoing, evolving battle over property and the exercise of its enforcement. in this context, the right-wing political position becomes clearer: property rights and enforcement should be the purview of individual owners who exercise total control over the land or tools in question. this necessitates a tight focus on hierarchy as the property holder has absolute authority but cant be everywhere and do everything all the time. this authority must be delegated to subordinates who ultimately still answer only to the owner. this can be seen at public and private companies, where the shareholders imbue the c-suite with their authority to produce surplus, which is seized from people further down the hierarchy and returned to the owners in the form of profit. you can also see this ideology at work in things like organized crime. the "conservative" and "liberal" divide are both right-wing positions. one side thinks property rights should be officially granted based on heredity and its fruits distributed based on entrenched systems of social obligations and contract law that maintain the status quo. the other thinks we should obfuscate the former and eliminate the latter by mediation through money. all of this is what is meant by the phrase "private property", which confers privilege (literally "private law") to the property owner.

opposition to this, which we call the "left wing", holds that property is collective. the land was made by god or natural forces, the development and production of tools for its cultivation (as well as cultivation of the land itself) is performed by society as a whole and therefore it is society as a whole that should own and control it and be entitled to the surplus it creates. there's a lot of different ways among left-wing thinkers of how this should be done, from strictly horizontalist organization based on local, voluntary participation to rigidly structured and enforced state stewardship that answers to the collective. any way you slice it, productive land is not allowed to be held by private authority. "leftism" is about the abolition of private property, full stop.

relative to the above, the correct interpretation of "centrism" would be some kind of social democracy with broad social benefits where some surplus from private property is peeled off for the enrichment of the people, but the rest remain as profits for private owners.

Chillgamesh posted:

Who took your shift key, OP?

evilmiera posted:

I Seized It.

Zodium posted:

we need croup back more than ever.

Zodium posted:

we need croup back more than ever.

DaysBefore posted:

Trying to make my tenants understand that their rent payments count as mutual aid because I give $50 to the NDP on Christmas (also an act of worker solidarity as the NDP are fellow landlords [workers]). Any good reading recs so I can make these people (likely chuds, one is a nurse) understand?

stumblebum posted:

the biggest problem i have with this is that "society" is already divided into mutually-conflicting classes, and that in our times there is no "collective" ownership over society, merely the choice between proletarian class rule or bourgeois class rule. the second is that it describes an intrinsic moral motivation and not the material basis by which society is controlled and manipulated, and anybody can score an INTJ myers-brigg regardless of political affiliation