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Which PFL champion are you most looking forward to seeing this month?
This poll is closed.
Olivier Aubin-Mercier 1 3.85%
Larissa Pacheco 4 15.38%
Sadibou Sy 1 3.85%
Lance Palmer 0 0%
Nicco Montano 1 3.85%
Alexander Shlemenko 2 7.69%
Bobby Southworth 3 11.54%
Hardcore Holly 14 53.85%
Total: 26 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

 
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Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010
Daley loving himself out of a UFC career in the dumbest loving way is always funny, but him losing to Diaz was somehow funnier.

I can never decide if Thompson or Cerrone is the better case of Diaz hypnosis. You can see it dawn on both guys roughly halfway through the figh. They realise that Nate's insistence that the fight only counts if they stand two feet apart and play rock em sock em robots was not an honest prediction of the fight. They slowly realise "man...i'm getting hit a lot...I'm not hitting him that much...drat i'm tired"

This post is way too good to leave in last month's thread.

DO YALL WANT A BOXC posted:

definitely a humble opinion because leg kicks only prove that the fighter doing them is a complete bitch rear end loser in the Unified Rules of Stockton.


i posted a long attempted tribute to the Diazes before their last fight, but to slightly restate, the true answer to "are the Diazes great strikers or poor strikers?" is "Yes". They are phenomenal strikers under Stockton rules. They are also pretty phenomenal strikers under normal rules, since they are able to psychologically goad people into fighting Stockton style. Which you can call a skill or an attribute or a facet of their insane existence. But they should certainly get credit for it given that they managed to convince pretty much everyone except for like GSP, Ben Henderson, and Conor in the second fight to fight as if it was Stockton rules. I think I would call it a skill. I think they realize on some level that in order to choose to be a fighter, you have to have something wrong with you. And the thing that's wrong with you is generally a psycho desire to make sure you prove that you're not a bitch rear end loser. So they can set the true scoring criteria, which generally seem to be predicated around perceiving the fight as a fight to the death:

1) who is more damaged at the end of the fight
2) who came closer to actually ending the fight, i.e. KO/subbing the opponent and theoretically being able to defenselessly kill them
3) who would win if the fight kept going
4) who looks less like a bitch rear end

...not necessarily in that order.

Based on that, you can see why something like Edwards-Diaz was actually a win for Diaz in Stockton. Yes, Nate lost on damage, but he came closer than Leon to ending the fight, and if the fight kept going, most people would have picked Nate to eventually win. Nick Diaz-Condit, neither were really damaged, but Condit can't run forever, and running is for bitches. So Carlos loses in a hypothetical fight to the death. Even something like Islam-Volk 1, it shows why it's a casually upsetting result. Islam was as damaged if not moreso, Volk came closer at the end to ending it, and Volk kills Islam if that goes to the death based on how Round 5 was going. Islam also had a bitch rear end look on his face as he was getting beat on.

Now that I think about it, Condit was very much a "This Is A Sport" guy. Not a fight to the death guy. So he gets docked a lot in this scoring. It makes sense why despite the Robbie fight probably being a slight robbery everyone was okay with Robbie winning. Robbie did more damage, came closer to ending the fight, would have won if it kept going. Condit-GSP, equally damaged, Condit DID come closer to winning the fight, but GSP still takes it if it goes endlessly.

Now, unfortunately for the Diazes they don't have much sway with athletic commissions or understanding of how the Unified Rules of MMA actually work, but it's hard to find a fight where they lost according to Stockton rules. The Josh Thomson fight, maybe the Rory/Dong fights where Nate was giving up tons of weight. I can't think of one Nick lost except maybe GSP. Nick seemed to have a weird (for him) respect for GSP's cardio and grind.

e: forgot to add the original point of all this. Which is: the best way to win fights that are held under MMA rules and regulation but actually under Stockton scoring is to try and stand and bang and knock the Diazes out. So they convince guys that's the only way they can truly actually win the fight. And then guys try to do this instead of just easily legkicking them for 15/25 minutes. Which plays right into their strengths as fighters. And makes them phenomenal, because they've convinced like 50 different guys to all fight the same exact way despite it being completely tactically insane to do.

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Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010

Shumagorath posted:

can we rename the subforum this or can I get it on a gi patch

seconding this

Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010

Gumball Gumption posted:

I watched it this morning and the first thing I texted my buddy was that it was crazy he won under Stockton Rules and he responded about pride rules.

Incredible to watch and I think it really, sadly, hammered home how badly it's gotten in the UFC. You can't say you're the best fight league in your sport, nevermind all combat sports, if the best heavyweight in the world is getting pushed out and then changing sport and doing that. Even with all the caveats of Fury not taking it seriously or "amateur boxers can be tough because they're awkward" or whatever it was impressive and a worsening black eye for the UFC.

Somebody here pointed out the absurdity of the UFC's position. Intially, when there was no sign of a Fury fight being signed, and you could only imagine Ngannous fighting dregs or up and comers, Dana said something like 'he wants to leave and fight easier competition for less money' which is kind of a good line. Until you think about. Your heavyweight champion can gently caress off, fight scrubs and somehow he'll make more money than he will at the top of your sport? In the most marketable division? This is somehow an argument for Francis staying instead of a damning indictment of your entire business strategy?

Snowman_McK fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Nov 5, 2023

Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010

Eat This Glob posted:

that sounds like you want the ufc and dana to promote...fights? that ain't their job, man

It is amazing how often you see the refrain of 'Man, Ngannou just couldn't market himself so the UFC was right to let him go' and you have to wonder what these people think the UFC is actually for.

Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010

Gumball Gumption posted:

It's not even that, Dana has fully hit the point of petty business tyrant where the business just exists as personal entertainment. If they were trying to extract as much cash as possible they would be putting on way better fights

The two aren't necessarily separate. Dana likes rockem sockem type fights. The UFC has made a lot of money while he's worked there. Ergo, Dana's taste has been a part of making the UFC successful. Ergo, a specific sport that was just two dudes hitting each other with nothing else to get in the way is also likely to be succssful. It's both what he wants and also something he's genuinely sure will succeed because, like a lot of people in power at successful companies, he doesn't fully understand why the company has been successful. I mean look at how many companies that have been previously successful have kneecapped themselves in multiple industries.

blue footed boobie posted:

because who else is fighting in that division

lots of people. Welterweight has been a really good division, combining depth and fun guys to watch, for a really loving long time. He could have fought Luque, or Ponz, or any of the other guys on good win streaks at the time.

Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010
For satisfying beatdowns, a lot of the good ones already got mentioned, so I'll put in an obscure one: Mike Brown Leonard Garcia.

Not that Garcia was scummy or anything. He's always seemed like a pretty nice guy. But his wild, flailing style could result in as many frustrating fights as great ones, sometimes beating guys that absolutely should have known better. Then, against Brown, Garcia throws one of his trademark looping punches and Brown just counters straight over the top and loving flattens him. I thought Garcia might have been dead. It was just amazing to see someone pull off, so effortlessly, a counter than had seemingly always been there but no one had ever managed to pull off. One of those 'why don't they just do X' and then someone went and did X.

LobsterMobster posted:

Both fights ended up mentally tormenting the loser as well.

Bisping said he was sent the redcoat photoshop daily for months if not years.

Koscheck couldn't get on a plane for I think a few weeks because his orbital was so shattered

It was more like months for Kos. I remember that he was talking how it still hurt a full year later, around the time of the Woodley or Lawler fight.

Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010

Shumagorath posted:

Jesus that fight goes on a whole two minutes after that shot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-ZNAGObkLE

oh yeah Garcia was and is insanely tough. He's a guy who had an obvious gameplan to beating him but who also made it clear why it was so very hard to execute it.

Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010
Fedor/Bigfoot was also super satisfying. People who are newish here may not remember how insanely annoying Fedor fans were, so imagine Conor fans but somehow worse. Fedor had gotten subbed shortly beforehand but that was explained away as him getting 'caught.' But then Bigfoot, slow even by heavyweight standards but with decent striking fundamentals, straight up outboxed him, exploiting all the shortcomings in Fedor's boxing that had been there for years. No one had been able to exploit them because heavyweight is a toilet fire in a dumpster, but they'd been there. And a glacially slow heavyweight was able to exploit them. His fans tried to explain it as Bigfoot simply being too big, but then Cormier, who was smaller, knocked out Bigfoot in about three minutes.

Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010

MassRafTer posted:

Fedor's camp claiming Bigfoot's camp had used some kind of curse made it even better

Ah, gently caress. Forgot about that part. "Forbidden psychic technologies" is the phrase I remembered. The most Brazilian of excuses coming from a Russian.

TheKingslayer posted:

Rogan yelling, "NOOOOOOO" like Darth Vader while Cung Le was getting his face flattened was another crowd pleaser of a beat down.

I feel like it's been a while since Rogan complained excessively about an early stoppage that wasn't early in any way.

Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010

Fozzy The Bear posted:

BJ Penn getting kissed by a dude right before the GSP fight

Also quitting on the stool after going 'to the death' was pretty drat funny. Penn had some of the most annoying fans as well who viewed him as a shroedinger figure. He was a massive badass for going up in weight to fight Diaz or Rory, but also those losses didn' count because the other guy is too big.

Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010

John Romero posted:

remember penn edgar 3

hope everyone had a good weekend

*kramers in awkwardly on my tiptoes*
I'm trying something new for this fight.

Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010

DeimosRising posted:

Who do you think was better in 03 04? Hell, it's really not until he started losing fights in 2010 that the UFC had a heavyweight champ he wouldn't have been heavily favored against (Cain). Don't get me wrong I agree that he certainly wasn't anywhere as good as some people would have you believe but it's not like there were any other, better heavyweights at the time. He beat Big Nog repeatedly, he beat Cro Cop, he beat Tim Sylvia and Arlovski (lol), he almost certainly would have beaten eg Couture or Lesnar.

Frank Mir. Genuinely. Mir is simultaneously a ridiculous person with many extremely funny losses and also the guy with one of the most insanely impressive resumes in the sport. 03-04 he's pre motorcycle accident and Fedor is getting outboxed by Fujita.

Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010

DeimosRising posted:

I guess it’s pretty hard to quantify the effect of the crash, but he had just been knocked out by Ian freeman, a hard hitting but mediocre journeyman, and when he came back got knocked out by Cruz, another journeyman and not even a knockout artist, and Brandon Vera, who was looking like hot poo poo but got beat up by Tim Sylvia and Werdum right after and never had another good win in his entire career. Could he have beaten Emelianenko? Absolutely, he wasn’t an invincible cyborg KGB assassin Bond villain, he was a flawed light heavyweight competing up a weight (honestly in the modern game he might be best off at middleweight) who mainly just hit hard and was better at integrating grappling and striking than his opponents because sambo already did that. Mir was a better pure grappler and bigger and stronger, but he was very vulnerable to being knocked out by any decent hitter (unless they were a kickboxer who couldn’t stop his grappling at all).

Thinking about this has just made me realize exactly how mediocre the heavyweights were at the time (and all times) even though that generation of light and heavyweights was what got me into the sport initially

Well yeah, heavyweight is loving terrible all the way down and always has been. And so Fedor was absolutely capable of losing to Mir. Or Barnett. Or Rizzo. Or Rodriguez. Or Couture. Stipe, who is as good a heavyweight as we've had, also managed to get knocked out by loving Struve and spent a round getting knocked around by Del Rosario. Crocop, who's often held up as one of the two best wins Fedor ever got, got flattened by Kevin Randleman. They're all bad and anyone moderately competent at the time had a shot at beating him. loving Fugita nearly finished him. Fujta's other best win is Ken Shamrock beating him so hard he gave himself a heart attack

Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010
Marquardt is probably the worst fighter with the best highlight reel alongside James Irvin. Though Marquardt never gave us a loss quite as perfect as "nice leg kick...and he's out'"

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Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010

kimbo305 posted:

Gotta be Cody McKenzie.

I was unaware that Cody had a highlight reel beyond destroying Koscheck's pet human and needing the tag on his shorts removed.

The Edwards fight was good, though.

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