|
Oh boy. Good luck with this LP! That's a pretty big project here. Persona 3.
|
#
¿
Nov 2, 2023 21:08
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 14, 2024 10:54 |
|
|
Fun fact, row has absolutely no effect on damage in the Persona Qs. All it does is restrict the range of melee attacks (If you're in the back row, you can't smack the enemy's back row with melee). Probably done since the Persona games don't really have a row mechanic. All it does is reduce enemy aggro, as they're less inclined to smack the back row. Magic also affects infliction rates as well, though luck is twice as powerful as magic for doing so. However unlike in Etrian Odyssey 3 and 4 (Which these games' code are based on) the effect is rather minimal unless you're like a hundred of magic and luck points above the enemy's. Araxxor fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Nov 9, 2023 |
|
#
¿
Nov 9, 2023 23:48
|
|
|
Zen and Rei, Yukari, Mitsuru. Incidentally don't camp a sub-persona for too long. If the party member who equipped it has their level outpace the sub-persona's level, their damage actually takes a hefty penalty! If they're 6 levels above it starts off at a 10% penalty, maxing out at a whopping 50% at 10 levels or above. Navigators don't have to worry about this and can use whatever sub-persona they want since this penalty only affects the party member's damage output. Omobono posted:For those that never played Persona 3, 4 or 5, the MC there is the only one who can use the power of the wild card. It allows them insane versatility and power; I never played 3 but in 4 and 5 it's intended for the endgame to be the Yu Narukami/Joker shows, guest starring the other party members. Risky with the Persona 3 MC is also something you have to watch out for, as he's weak to Dark attacks which are instant kill. Fortunately it's not like a major increase, as the dude has a 120% multiplier against them, but something to watch out for compared to the Persona 4 MC. Weaknesses on the playable characters are always 20% extra damage (or an extra chance of being slapped by an instant kill) while resists are always 50% damage reduction/halving the chance of instant kills. Incidentally due to being on the EO4 engine, weaknesses and resistances don't operate the same way as they do in the SMT series. EO only uses damage multipliers in its enemy data, while SMT has those but also additional flags for each damage type saying if the enemy should be "weak" (grants a press turn or One More or something), "resist", "null", "reflect", or "absorb". Which can create situations like enemies taking 1 damage from an attack despite the game telling you it's weak to it. Or enemies secretly taking like half damage despite the game not telling you they're actually resistant to it (and also making them immune to break skills if you're trying to use that to get rid of resists since they don't have the resist flag). In the Persona Qs, resists MEAN resists and weaknesses mean weaknesses. Though which is which actually depends on what the damage multipliers are set to. 0% is null, 1-80% is resist, 81% to 119% is neutral, 120%+ is a weakness. For example, the Laughing Table actually takes 10% more damage from Bash attacks, but since it's not in the 20%+ range, it doesn't officially count as a weakness (Where in the EO series 101%+ is a weakness). vilkacis posted:e: also i believe Orgia mode outright doubles Aigis' damage output so you can do some silly things with it. Yes. It's double damage for all damage types and immunity from disables for 3 turns (including the casting turn so you only have 2 turns to deal double damage), but puts her out of commission for 3 turns after it wears off. Pretty much tailored for mega burst strats. Though being based on EO4's engine means it's not actually truly double damage and there's diminishing returns for damage amplifier effects the more you stack (it's pretty negligible and not worth worrying about unless you love stacking a lot of buffs.)
|
|
#
¿
Nov 10, 2023 20:27
|
|
|
ApplesandOranges posted:Unfortunately for Yukari, all the things that made her amazing in P3 haven't quite translated well into Persona Q. For the most part, magic as a means of primary offense is just worse compared to physicals in Q. The drain on SP is more noticeable compared to physicals draining HP, and HP is easier to recover than SP (especially with Fuuka around). There are physical elemental moves now, which means you're less reliant on magic to hit weaknesses. Magic does have some advantage (being able to ignore row placement, for instance), but for long dungeon crawls/fights, Yukari probably will be draining herself too quickly in a lot of cases. Yeah the damage to SP ratio is not great in Q1 for magic. The damage is a bit weak as well in general. I can actually explain why this is the case. The damage formula for the Persona Qs is incredibly simple unlike the ones for the mainline games which tend to be more complex iirc, as it's directly modified from EO3/4's damage formula, which was a very simple damage formula for the most part. Skill Power * Stat Score * Modifiers * Difficulty And then a random number from 1 to 10 is added on at some point in the formula to randomize damage a bit. Unlike in Etrian Odyssey where the highest difficulty is the baseline, Normal is actually the baseline in the Persona Qs, as both the easier and harder mode apply additional modifiers to damage. 20% in your favor (less damage taken and more damage dealt) if you pick an easier one, 20% in the enemies' favor if you pick a harder one. Modifiers are just any buffs and passives and if the target is weak or resistant to that damage type, which varies across all enemies and party members. It's not a universal 50% boost/cut or anything. Stat score's the closest thing to a complex part in the formula. If a physical attack is being used: sqrt(Attacker Strength/Target Endurance) If a magical attack is being used: sqrt(Attacker Magic/(((Target Magic * 2) + Target Endurance) / 3)) Basically means offensive stats have a proportional effect on damage, but the square root induces a diminishing returns effect, so stacking a bunch of strength won't skyrocket your damage. Like having double the amount of strength compared to the enemy's endurance just amounts to a 41% damage boost instead of a 100% boost if the square root wasn't there. Skill power is very simple. Unlike in Etrian Odyssey, it's not a multiplier. It's the amount of damage the skill deals if everything's on an even playing field. For example, Garu has a power of 42, so it deals 42 (plus the random factor) if the attacker and target have the same offensive vs. defense stats, and the target is neutral to the damage. This is the most important part of the damage formula, so it's important for this number to be high if you want to deal big damage. This is why magic isn't looked too highly on amongst the playerbase. The numbers for magic damage are just set pretty low, and they guzzle up SP. In fact all the elemental spells deal 42 damage for their tier 1, 85 for their tier 2, and 152 for their tier 3. AOEs deal the same amount of damage too. (Enemies are different, as they use different versions of these spells, so this doesn't apply to them.) Zen also starts off at a massive disadvantage. His elementals only deal 30 damage (Cyclone deals 15 damage per hit, so it can hit higher since it can get 3 hits), so he's starting off at essentially a 29% damage reduction compared to them! Fortunately his card passives boost his damage, but even then he's going to fall behind the others throughout the game unfortunately. You might have noticed that weapons and armor don't seem to factor in. That's because they don't if skills are ever used. They only matter if you're using a basic attack or the enemy is using a basic attack, or you're using an All Out Attack. Yeah. Weapons do get used in AOAs so don't neglect those. Replace Skill Power with these if a basic attack is being used. Player: Weapon ATK - Target Endurance Enemy: (Attacker Strength * 3) - Target Armor And since I mentioned AOAs, I might as well end off with this. All out attacks are kinda weird. Replace Skill Power and Stat Score with this. Each party member chips in with their own attack, so this applies to each one: (Weapon ATK - Target MA) * sqrt(Attacker ST/Target MA) * 0.93 This is then added up, so you're kinda getting quintuple damage here. Enemy endurance doesn't factor into AOAs oddly enough. This doesn't really matter in PQ1 all too much really.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 17, 2023 22:27
|
|
|
The character writing in Persona Q has issues, to say the least.Blueberry Pancakes posted:Makes sense. That would explain some changes in Q2. Yeah magic overall is buffed in that game. Damage formula hasn't changed, so these are just straight buffs. Magic went from 42/85/152 damage to 50/135/235 for tier 1/2/3 magic! And SP costs got lowered across the board in that game.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 20, 2023 01:52
|
|
|
Yeah for whatever reason Teardrop has the best defense debuff, set to a 140% multiplier, while the ones after it drop down to 120%. Ouch. At least the damage increases from 58 to 158 to 202? But yeah I would rather have the initial version, and it's a shame you're forced to "upgrade" it. And yeah that's an example of a physical that easily outclasses magic in terms of damage.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 21, 2023 05:55
|
|
|
LiefKatano posted:Out of curiosity, is the ailment infliction formula for these games known? I thought that it was similar to EO3 and 4's. It's based on EO3 and 4's, but there are some big differences. For reference, here's the formula used in EO3 (HD) and EO4. quote:Ailment Score = (2 * Attacker's LUC + Attacker's TEC) - (2 * Target's LUC + Target's TEC) Basically if you have enough LUC and TEC, your infliction rate is doubled. If you don't have a lot, rates could end up being reduced by around 65%. But there's a bug. If you have too little of those stats in comparison to the enemy's, it's set to the base rate. However in the Persona Qs... quote:Ailment Score = (2 * Attacker's Luck + Attacker's Magic) - (2 * Target's Luck + Target's Magic) The skeleton of the formula is the same, but the constants are changed, leading to a much longer curve, and severely dampening the effectiveness of stats. Oh and the 90% infliction cap was thankfully removed. The bug is still not fixed, as having too low infliction stats again sets the rates back to base. The range in EO3/4 is 0.3535 to 2x In PQs it's 0.65x to 1.63x. If you somehow have 184 more ailment score it goes back up to 2x but that's uh, not happening. If your ailment score is the same as your target's, you have 1x infliction rate in EO3/4. In the Persona Qs it's 0.73x Yes being on even ground worsens your infliction by 27%. You need 50 more ailment score than the target to reach a neutral rate. Unlike in EO3 HD, difficulty has no effect on infliction rates in the Persona Qs, as that piece of design wasn't implemented until Etrian Odyssey Untold, and the Persona Qs are based off of EO4. The EOs also have a mechanic known as Accumulative Resistance where everyone becomes more resistant to a specific disable the more they get inflicted with it to prevent spamming the same disable for the entire fight. This mechanic is not in the PQs. There's one thing I left out, but I'll talk about it when the LP gets to that.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 6, 2023 04:29
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 14, 2024 10:54 |
|
|
ApplesandOranges posted:So it's been a bit since the last update. Are you using a text dump? If not I think I can send one over to you if you'd like.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2024 02:06
|
|