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Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer
On the flipside there's the massive uptick in quality from The Dominators to The Mind Robber.

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Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer
That was really funny and charming. And I love that they're running with Fourteen being utterly bewildered as to why the Hell he's Tennant again.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer
Honestly diverse casting for period pieces also seems to me like just a matter of equal opportunity employment. Even if you end up with some specific place and time where a large majority of the people were white it still sucks to tell all the nonwhite actors they shouldn’t bother auditioning. And while DW has been able to occasionally do something like Demons of the Punjab, it’s a British show, they’re more likely to be able to scrape together resources for historicals set in Europe or the UK. So you may as well risk casting a few more black people than you necessarily would have seen in 1600s Shropshire or whatever.

I also want to bring up a point about Rosa, I think it was important that the villainous white supremacist came from the far future because it’s kind of a fallacy to assume racism will inevitably die out. The last decade-and-change has been a reminder of how deeply entrenched these attitudes are and you can’t always assume progress will be forward. At the same time he was clearly taking extreme measures because he was on the losing side, so the idea that his origin makes Parks’ struggle seem futile is not something I can agree with.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer

Dabir posted:

On the other hand it's kind of bleak that it's apparently easier to imagine time travelling klansmen than it is to imagine racism being behind us

True, but there are likely weirdos today who are still salty over things like Prussia not being a free state anymore or someone who, given the opportunity, would travel back in time to prevent the fall of the Qing Dynasty. Doesn't mean those ideas have the kind of institutional and cultural framework supporting them that modern white supremacy does.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer
I do think it’s interesting that the first special is straight up an adaptation of a comics story. A drat good one, to be sure.

Then again RTD also adapted Human Nature so it’s not that huge a surprise.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer
Beep the Meep is trending on Twitter, thank you RTD

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer
It’s worth keeping an eye on but so far, I mean Star Beast felt very RTD Who and not something with the heavy creative hand of Disney in it.

And even the actual quote as to their interference was so vague it could be anything. We don’t know what was cut or what it was replaced with.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer
Also the episode clearly and forcefully went out of its way to say “Trans women are women, gently caress transphobes” and even if minor elements were a little clumsy it’s obviously not something RTD had to compromise to get by anyone.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer
Yeah this was a fun one, good old-fashioned spaceship runaround. Tennant and Tate are just amazing.

E: Actually now I'm wondering if the whole episode exists just because RTD realized he had the two back together and was like "I would like to have an entire episode of just them interacting. We've only got them for three specials, better make the most use of them we can."

Maxwell Lord fucked around with this message at 09:07 on Dec 3, 2023

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer
What makes Orphan 55 stand out is not even the messaging being a little clumsy, it’s just very sloppily put together. It has the air of one of those episodes TV shows sometimes have where they didn’t quite have the story cracked and a good sense of what they were doing but the deadlines are looming and they can’t all be bangers. Except that this season only had 10 episodes and so to still have a clunker like that is especially egregious.

Like it’s clearly a story that needed more time in the oven. And you seemed to see more of that in Chibnall’s time.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer
Kerblam was clearly trying to make the point that *technology* isn’t inherently good or bad, it’s just what it is, that’s what the Doctor is saying, but it confuses things by also having the story be someone rebelling against a bad system the wrong way and going too far and any actual attempt to make the system better is handled in like a couple of lines. Again it’s another story which needed some real rethinking and didn’t get it.

I legit feel Chibnall’s faults were more as showrunner than as writer. Even accepting that COVID wreaked unprecedented havoc on Flux and the specials, it really feels like he wasn’t able to pull things together as well as other producers. (See the Sea Devils where FX and filming issues result in a story that is… really not coherent.)

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer
I really cannot wait for Gatwa's first full episode, he's having so much fun up there.

Really solid ending to this trilogy, and a good start for the new one. I also loved Donna instantly negotiating better pay and vacation time, Tate is the best in those moments. Pure gently caress Yeah energy.

I also appreciate that not only was 15 just running around in his underwear, nobody noticed it or commented on it. Everyone was like "Let him cook."

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer
Also a good excuse for more BF stories

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer
My only real complaint is the direction could have been tighter for the game of catch. C’mon give us a few wide shots, break out the stunt doubles!

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer

Barry Foster posted:

Thirteen was a woefully underdeveloped character

I dunno once the Flux season made her into a disaster lesbian it all kinda "clicked" for me

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer
Really enjoyed this.

Gatwa has this great physical presence as the Doctor, like the way he instantly went scuttling through the goblin door when it opened. There's also a little sense that for all his outward joy there's still something tugging at him. Ruby I like as well, she looks a bit like Clara and it seems like she has a real reason to want to travel (she wants to know more about her past).

Bring on Spring!

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer

LividLiquid posted:

The festivities have wrapped up and even though I was done with Christmas specials, I wanted to keep going, so I'm watching Heaven Sent again and this could've won a loving Emmy in the states. Easily.

The Emmys have always been weird with genre TV, even more so than the Oscars with sci-fi/fantasy.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer
Yeah he seemed to just HAVE IT from The Giggle onward. Maybe it's because they didn't do the typical post-regenerative funk thing, but Gatwa seems to have a very strong idea how he's playing this.

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Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer
I think it's entirely possible that Disney are giving bad suggestions as well but RTD is probably enough of an old hand that he can deflect/run interference when he needs to.

There's a clip of Margot Robbie talking about her work on the Barbie movie, where she was also a producer, and one of the things she did was talk with the reps from Mattel if they had a problem with a line and explain how it would work in the film and the context and so on. That's something everyone in the industry gets used to.

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