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LividLiquid posted:Every story needs to have a baseline of consistency or nothing matters. It can break its own rules, but it can't just not set them up. That's not true. There are countless storytelling modes where rigid conceptions of plot are not particularly important.
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Nov 19, 2023 19:05
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| # ¿ May 21, 2024 07:53 |
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A thing that I only learned recently is that the original impetus for the Cybermen wasn't about ordinary medical heart transplants. It was about a paper the author read about the prospect of using organ replacements to facilitate space travel. Observe how many cyberpunk stories or, say, Repo! a Genetic Opera look at Oregon replacement and transplants under capitalism or under ecological collapse. Life-saving medical techniques are a boon for humanity, but the conditions of access can reproduce the deep-seated evils that define our society. Persons who no longer can serve as productive members of a workforce or an army unaltered are forcibly altered by state power to serve those interests. Persons who have bodies that are inconvenient to the state or regime have those bodies altered - look at institutional sterilization of disabled people, the impoverished, and racial minorities. I think World Enough and Time is interesting on this front. Partially because it's a continuation of Moffat's interest in "monstering" companions and sympathetic characters, but also because it treats Bill's cyber-conversion as a very specific and individual violation - but not one that can actually strip her of humanity, and later, she ascends past human biology entirely without becoming a "monster".
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Nov 20, 2023 04:53
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It's airing on BBC 4 right now.
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Nov 23, 2023 20:44
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RUSSEL THE DAVIES YOU MAD BASTARD YOU DID IT WE ARE SO loving BACK
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Nov 25, 2023 20:40
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Dhawan's Master has some kind of TARDIS in Power of the Doctor.
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Nov 26, 2023 23:36
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I watched it for the first time yesterday and feel the same way.
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Nov 26, 2023 23:42
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CommonShore posted:the general direction of the thread rn has me really thinking about the things that I like in this show. I tend to think of it like a SF variety magazine, where it's mostly distinct content that's pulled together under a given editorial eye, and with a few recurring characters. Viewing it this way I have no qualms about tone and style shifts from story to story. Christopher H. Bidmead's run as writer near the end of Tom Baker's era does a lot with pocket dimensions and entropy and suchlike.
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Nov 27, 2023 17:56
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Open Source Idiom posted:(though BF have been fairly... lax about attending to creator rights in recent years). Oh word?
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Nov 28, 2023 15:24
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The jingling keys criticism has never made any sense to me. Maybe a stage magician distracting you with confetti while he sneaks a prop into your pocket would be more apt. If anything Moffat's problem is that he sublimates so much of the actual narrative beneath insinuation and character interiority that if you don't buy into the character arcs his seasons become incoherent. Starting from S6-7 onwards, up until Bill showed up, tons of people absolutely could not be convinced to care about Clara or Twelve, and so the show lost their interest. If you didn't buy the toxic co-dependence between 12 and Clara as a compelling seed for television, half the episodes each year were built on a foundation of sand. I think most of s6 and s7 suffer terribly from the underpinning character dynamics being undercooked. But Capaldi and Coleman's dynamic big time worked for me.
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Dec 2, 2023 02:49
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We know that 7B was a production disaster. Nightmare in silver was written assuming Victorian Clara, Moffat was in the middle of dealing with his dying mother which sort of hung over his entire era, the news that Smith was leaving blindsided a lot of the production which is why Time Of is an entire season of plot points shoved together, rearranged, and cut down...
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Dec 2, 2023 03:31
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howe_sam posted:RTD will never have the companion be anything other than a contemporary character because he views the companion as the audience surrogate, and it seems doesn't think the audience will relate to anything else. I think it's really important to consider that Russell is interested in maintaining a contemporary working class connection in Doctor Who. That's why Donna gives away her money.
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Dec 2, 2023 06:39
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The doctor being mostly in control of the TARDIS and the material realities of television production where actors want to move on create a circumstance where companions only leave in times of crisis or under tragic circumstances because otherwise the doctor could just take them home but also why would they want to go home? I think one strategy to address this might be to have a companion who has an agenda and motivation beyond adventure - someone who has their own mystery to solve, so that they are an enthusiastic participant but still have a life plan beyond the adventure.
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Dec 4, 2023 13:02
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I really hated zygon inversion at the time for feeling centrist and wishy-washy but right now "the only way conflict ends is when people talk to each other" feels more radical than the status quo, where the entire global political establishment thinks it can be solved by bombing people into glass
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Dec 5, 2023 01:32
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Open Source Idiom posted:I mean, like, it's been a while but Maehb's not actually sick in Forests Of The Night, she's being provided with useless medication to compensate for the trauma resulting around her sister's disappearance. So she's definitely, textually, being misdiagnosed like. The moral isn't to drop medication, it's that we need to listen to distressed kids instead of just doping them and thinking that's the solution when it blatantly isn't working. The problem is that spiritual, woo-woo, and pseudoscientific rhetoric is constantly deployed to undermine the utility, necessity, and availability of antipsychotics and ADHD medication in the real world. It's not just science fictional characters in a science fictional universe who diagnose children with neurodivergence and mental health issues as being psychic or magical or indigo children. It fails to function as a metaphor because it depicts very literally a real delusion as true - and I'm not talking about Maehb's hallucinations.
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Dec 5, 2023 02:54
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There's also ...and the Pirates!
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Dec 7, 2023 23:28
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Open Source Idiom posted:If we're talking BF, there's an excellent song about Beep The Meep in The Ratings War, and the songs from those Scorchies plays. I was just looking into this Six arc two minutes ago. Apart from the musical fakeout, how is the Purity stuff? Worth my listening time?
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Dec 7, 2023 23:44
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usenet celeb 1992 posted:Christ, don't tell me, Ben Elton wrote it, right? It appears to be Matthew Sweet's work.
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Dec 8, 2023 00:27
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They clearly offer a laundry list of sources for trauma for Doctor Who dating back as far as Sarah Kingdom's death at the hands of Mavic Chen. This is definitely to make sure that every doctor from Hartnell through tennant the second are equally going to therapy, not that 11 through 13 are unique in their positions as worn out. And also, it's not as if RTD is introducing the drat idea that the Doctor is exhaustes. Large parts of Capaldi's run were about this - he nearly refused to regenerate at all! Anyway, the Doctor tells the Old Doctor that they are "doing rehab out of order". While this doesn't lock any specific sequence of events down beyond the ability of Big Finish and Bad Wolf productions to play around in the future, I think you have to be engaging in a paranoid reading to not interpret that as some form of twisted linear experience.
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Dec 11, 2023 01:30
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Detective No. 27 posted:How do you factor in the second TARDIS? The second Tardis was created by hitting it with a cartoon hammer in the shadow of a reality-restructuring extra-universal anomaly. There have been plenty of Doctor Who stories in expanded media where the Tardis splits, buds, and re-fuses with itself. Just like the Doctor, the tardis is a complicated space-time event.
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Dec 11, 2023 01:39
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LividLiquid posted:I'm with you on just going with it because Gatwa is already perfect, but I have to say, it really doesn't matter whether somebody intended to do damage if they did that damage. The only people for whom Gatwa has been actually undermined by this were already bad faith bigots looking for excuses not to accepting him. Anyway on the subject of Magpie what I was really surprised by was that there was no homage to the original opening sequence. Since there was so much fixation on television cameras and image reproduction, the feedback television loop that created the original Doctor Who opening could have fit in pretty seamlessly.
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Dec 11, 2023 02:50
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Barry Foster posted:Thanks no I'm not a loving bigot and I say nothing in bad faith I'm not accusing anyone in this thread of bad faith bigotry. What I'm saying is that a lot of people in this thread are anxious and paranoid that the bi-generation constitutes some sort of "gotcha" or justification that bigots can use to delegitimize Gatwa. What I'm saying is, that audience was never going to be anything but hostile anyway. Bi-generation doesn't actually change how legitimate Gatwa is as the 15th Doctor. He's the star of the show, he's got a season in the can and another one in production, he's on all the promotions and merchandise, he's on the cover of DWM every month for the next two-four years minimum. So we, here, can relax. We don't need to worry about how creeps and reactionaries will twist the events of The Giggle. "The ones who mind don't matter, and the ones who matter don't mind."
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Dec 11, 2023 03:31
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Superdickery.
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Dec 11, 2023 03:57
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twistedmentat posted:Ugh that Other Doctor stuff makes no sense. If she predated Hartnel, why is her Tardis also a police box? When 15 says "I'm not wearing any trousers", that's when the excitement starts
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Dec 11, 2023 17:46
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Mr Beens posted:Well that's just loving dumb. Why can't these writers be content with what they actually write and put on screen instead of adding embellishments in random places to prove cool they are. As long as Davies is just making suggestions on commentary tracks but not putting it in episode scripts fans and future writers can play with the ideas decide what they like and some future version of the show can choose to incorporate or disregard it. Davies gets to share the creative process which he's always loved doing (see the writer's tale) without imposing restrictive or overriding lore in absence of corresponding stories. It's the same reason that Davies mentions a nightmare child but doesn't define it.
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Dec 11, 2023 22:18
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Astroman posted:I also love the fact that he is so hardcore against the TV show but loves Big Finish (and the fans). He could have said "gently caress it all" and never revisited the character or franchise and reasonable people would absolutely not blame him. Instead he's found a part of it he can embrace. Big Finish is famous for its extremely healthy work environment. There's criticism of their writing and some of their staffing and hiring practices with regards new writers but I've never heard a bad word said about recording or post-production conditions at Big Finish Productions. So between that, flexible scheduling that doesn't require the production to be insured against Eccleston's history of hospitalization, and the steady pay I'm not surprised at all that Eccleston is having a very positive time there.
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Dec 14, 2023 02:06
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And lunches.
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Dec 14, 2023 02:14
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That's so hosed up.
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Dec 14, 2023 13:27
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Eccleston was essentially blacklisted from working in UK TV after leaving the show.
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Dec 14, 2023 14:10
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Mooseontheloose posted:I kinda want to learn more about the adipose and also can the Slitheen be redeemed? Also, how are our Ood friends doing? Well the Slitheen are just one crime family. The Raxacoricofallapatorians are fine on the whole.
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Dec 18, 2023 05:08
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Mathieson's scripts were heavily rewritten to fit into season arcs and for improvements in general; Moffat's scripts were some of the only ones Rusty didn't doctor to hell and back. It could be that Mathieson fell out of love with the process, or it could be that Chibnall's clean slate approach alienated him.
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Dec 18, 2023 12:52
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Amy Pond, in that first series especially is mentally ill in a way that pushes against the bounds of sympathy. If you don't take it seriously you can skim over it, which is sort of the original intent. If you know someone like her in real life (*raises hand*), you can either appreciate it or be turned off hard. You know how you can tell that some people's deviantart fetishes happened because they saw the wrong shrinking episode or something from a cheap cartoon at absolutely the wrong time in their lives? Amy had that with the Doctor. Combine that with the time crack-induced abandonment and she's deeply hosed up. But there's no time given to really dealing with it. In many ways, Clara is another stab at a similar idea. Adventuring with the Doctor gives Clara a sense of power and importance and responsibility and protagonist syndrome that drives her to extremes.
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Dec 18, 2023 14:18
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PriorMarcus posted:I can absolutely see that in the writing for Amy, and it's something I wish had been explored more with her. I think it, and Clara, fall apart a bit when you realize it's kind of the only way Moffat knows how to write women, and ironically is probably an ailment he's suffering from himself when writing those women. I'd say that Bill breaks out of this format pretty cleanly. You get the feeling that the year break gave the Moff a real opportunity to relax and refresh, especially after the tumultuous personal and professional stuff going on for his first five-ish years.
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Dec 18, 2023 14:28
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PriorMarcus posted:Bill is easily the best companion of Moffat's run. He also had Missy to fill that role that season, so all of that nonsense got put onto her instead, it's just it works with Missy because of her being the Master and because Gomez is so loving great. Bill is great but I'm a late-period Clara stan because it feels like Moffat finally dialing in how to depict that kind of dysfunctional, maladaptive behavior explicitly and precisely. The trouble is that doing so pretty firmly pushed the driving subject matter of Doctor Who out of the target zone of "kids and family television" and into "serious adult drama with Daleks in it", which was never gonna work for everyone and had a very real risk of working for nearly no one.
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Dec 18, 2023 14:41
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I wanna make it clear that I have no animus or ill regard for forever delitization or rouge the bat vore or anything like that. The trouble with Amy comes from her adolescent psychosexual paraphilia showing up in real life and sweeping her away. Also, like, sure Amy's parents came back. But that doesn't mean she has any real experiences of growing up with them. And all the way through Series 5, she's clearly dealing with severe abandonment issues that she can't even rationalize because the cause of the abandonment is science fantasy nightmare poo poo.
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Dec 18, 2023 14:46
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The better answer for why you can't rescue Angel victims should be "once you've been fed on, your original future is annihilated as anti-time by the feeding process."
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Dec 18, 2023 17:49
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HD DAD posted:
The reason this doesn't happen is because there's no good reason why the Doctor deserves to cheat death and save planets but Clara doesn't. If you set up an episode like Face the Raven as a regeneration story, the Doctor would sacrifice themselves like 10 did for Wilf, and then probably regenerate and go back to travelling. But because of an accident of birth (or lack thereof), Clara doesn't get to have that privilege. Why not? Because she's the wrong literal race? Not the vibe I think.
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Dec 18, 2023 17:53
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Harlock posted:That's sort of the point, I think. Clara had been acting as a Doctor-lite and her hubris got her into a bad situation. She doesn't get to live/escape because she's not the genuine article and it serves as a tragic story that the recklessness of the Doctor shouldn't be emulated. Why not? Why does the (historically, male upper-class) hero get to be reckless and have fun but the women and hangers-on get punished for the same decisions? There's a reason Clara's face is in the opening for Dark Water. She's legitimate. The whole premise of her character is that she's so much like the Doctor, so legitimate in her claim to the position and legacy, that they can't be around each other because she can no longer check him the way his more human companions would. 
DoctorWhat fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Dec 18, 2023 |
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Dec 18, 2023 18:07
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Matinee posted:The title card order thing never read to me as "Clara is legit on the same level as The Doctor", but more an expansion of a stinger gag that probably flew over the head of 90%+ of the folks watching at home. It's not a bad idea though, and it might have worked better if it had some proper build-up and wasn't just thrown aside five minutes in to the episode. It isn't thrown aside! All of Series 9 is about it!
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Dec 18, 2023 19:24
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Jerusalem posted:Donna and 6 I was going to make some indignant remark about how elevating Donna to this level does it disservice to Evelyn but god. Can you imagine those two in a room? When Donna hears about the coat she'd have a meta crisis all over again with the power to razz the Doctor.
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Dec 19, 2023 12:47
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| # ¿ May 21, 2024 07:53 |
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There's a tweet that goes "getting queerbaited by the MCU is like losing at chess to a dog". That's kind of how I feel about Thasmin stuff. The Chibnall era was so vacuous, so anemic, that the empty space was very easy for motivated but maybe not entirely honest fans to project their desires into.
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Dec 19, 2023 14:29
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