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Discendo Vox posted:What message are you telling users when they have to repeatedly argue against the claim that it doesn't matter whether they live or die? For days? For years? That's very much not what the post you quoted was saying or implying. I'm going to take this opportunity to point out that even in D&D, "more words" doesn't necessarily mean "better". More words can quite often be better, yes, because they give people more room to clearly describe exactly what they're talking about. But if someone's completely loving tilted and just posting an angry rant or annoyed lecture with zero regard for clarity of communication, that can actually be worse than a one-liner shitpost. If someone's just posting to vent their rage about something, they don't have to pick up a thesaurus to do so. The point of D&D is to have a debate and discussion, not to post a mountain of big words about how right you are and then sit back and wait for everyone to applaud. Again, clarity of communication is key. It's actually hard to respond to posts like this one, because they make everything three times as complicated as it needs to be while treating forcefully stated opinions as if they're facts, and it just gets even more incomprehensible if someone responds and turns it into a back-and-forth. Just look at how Xiahou Dun gave an anecdote about how a policy helped them personally, and DisVox twisted it into "[users] have to repeatedly argue against the claim that it doesn't matter whether they live or die". That's ridiculously hyperbolic. Stretching poo poo like that is far more poisonous than a whole page of electoralism debate during a slow week in USCE.
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Nov 5, 2023 06:13
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Is literally anybody in this thread talking about actual real issues that happen regularly in D&D in fall 2023? I'm seeing a lot of rehashings of ancient arguments and grudges, and a lot of discussion of hypothetical problems that could theoretically happen, but D&D has calmed down quite a bit in the Koos years so I'm fairly surprised to see people acting like D&D is overrun with problems. "SYQ" posting was clamped down on ages ago, accusing people of doing it is also against the D&D rules, and I haven't seen anything in USCE about there being a resurgence of either one. Is this an actual problem cropping up again, or did someone just bring it up as a hypothetical and drag up old grudges with it?
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Nov 5, 2023 20:57
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ban anyone who posts a vxtwitter or fxtwitter link it's bad enough that people just blindly copy-paste links from Twitter in the first place, but the vx or fx mean they copy-pasted a Twitter link from Discord and now that's just getting loving ridiculous
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Nov 6, 2023 16:53
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Honestly I think D&D is pretty much fine now. Not really because of anything the current mod team did, but because Koos is not a D&D poster and expresses zero political opinions and minimal political insightfulness. So most of the people who were convinced their constant probes were just political oppression from the biased mods have given up their guerilla resistance and just left D&D. All this time, I guess what we really needed was a neutral outsider. Annoying posting still happens occasionally in USCE, but the volume is way down and can easily be drowned out by actual news. I didn't even bother reporting the electoralism derail the other day because the government's shut down and nobody really had anything else to talk about in USCE anyway - the big problem has never been the electoralism discussion itself, but the way it generates tons of angry petty posts and drowns out everything else anyone's attempting to talk about. USCE has been quite a bit better about staying on the general topic and not getting caught up in days-long circular slapfights. I honestly think that USCE tends to be better than the other, more subject-specific US politics threads these days. The other ones still have more of a tendency toward contextless tweetposting, endless repetitive circular arguments, and so on. For example, basically every single judicial order that makes its way to the Trump Legal Advice thread is still immediately followed by a bunch of random posters posting furious one-liners about how the biased judges are giving Trump a slap on the wrist, followed a few hours later by the thread lawyers saying that what the judge did was actually normal and proper and not special treatment at all. But the thread's slow anyway, so whatever. One thing I will say is that if someone has a history of breaking the D&D rules, then that tends to not be taken into account at all in their probes unless the person typing the report adds "and this person has like thirty probes already for this exact same thing" to the end of a report. If they don't add that line, it's usually just a sixer, but adding that set of magic words seems to fairly consistently elevate the probe length to days or more. So the mods probably aren't looking at rapsheets enough when handling reports.
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Nov 6, 2023 18:37
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Discendo Vox posted:Because they're trolling the feedback thread. I don't know Discendo Vox posted:It is not. As I have already said, as I have already demonstrated, it has driven off many of the people who made it a place for education or discussion. if I've ever told you this, Discendo Vox posted:Not really because of anything the current mod team did, but because Koos is not a D&D poster and expresses zero political opinions and minimal political insightfulness. So most of the people who were convinced their constant probes were just political oppression from the biased mods have given up their guerilla resistance and just left D&D. All this time, I guess what we really needed was a neutral outsider. but Discendo Vox posted:A tremendous amount of things are happening in the United States. The fact that it is not covered in D&D's USCE thread during a trolling derail does not mean everything else stops- it just means moderation has failed. Again. it's really loving annoying quote:You have correctly identified how trolling works. The point of the electoralism claim is that, by presenting an unfalsifiable counterfactual burden that rejects all discussion of specifics, it demands that response. and hard to read Discendo Vox posted:USCE just has a lot fewer users, because it's gotten bad enough that people have left. when you break a post into individual sentences Discendo Vox posted:Koos has a policy of not reading rapsheets, like he doesn't read the forum he moderates. It's another way to justify not acting on bad users, even when their methodology is extremely predictable and longstanding. and type separate responses to each and every sentence. ------------------------ Anyway, let's hit rewind and address this with a little more clarity of communication. Discendo Vox posted:A tremendous amount of things are happening in the United States. The fact that it is not covered in D&D's USCE thread during a trolling derail does not mean everything else stops- it just means moderation has failed. Again. There's plenty of things happening in the United States, but D&D posters aren't really interested in talking at length about most of them. Which is fine. I also think it's fine if USCE has a lot fewer users. Not everyone wants D&D-style posting, and I think that's absolutely cool and normal. It's fine if GBS or C-SPAM becomes the main SA political forum, while D&D becomes a niche forum for people who want to have a more nuanced or academic conversation about things. We're in the Twitter era of politics, and if D&D is shrinking people people are taking their <140-character takes elsewhere, I think that's a good thing for D&D. I don't think anything's fundamentally wrong with electorialism chat either. It's just that since it's largely based on opinions and theories with no clear "right" answer, it's a discussion with no natural end point. And since it tends to be heavily colored by people's deeply-held frustrations about the political process and environment in the US, people tend to be slow to drop it. So it tends to go on indefinitely unless stopped. This doesn't make it trolling, it just makes it something that needs an occasional mod poke after a while so the thread can move on to something else.
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Nov 6, 2023 20:07
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Staluigi posted:in a politics forum people who level cap their Seriousness can end up the most insufferable and discussion-annihilating of all, and it's not the primary issue you have to deal with in that kind of environment anyway. the main thing you gotta balance is if a place like this can stay legitimately informative in some way, especially for individual subject or nation threads and when dealing with current events. the issue of how to balance the seriousness vs. funny/chill/casual lever (looking back at the audience, etc) is way below that in importance and the major reason why you gotta kick people out isn't because they aren't Serious Politics Posters but because they drown threads that you used to be able to go into and get something useful out of it rather than some weird interforum or posting as praxis drama that someone can't let alone I think that "serious" doesn't have to equal "completely loving insufferable to deal with". I think the big question isn't really how serious someone is, but rather how interested they are in having an actual conversation rather than just shouting one-sidedly into the void. Some base level of seriousness is needed to that, but big-and-wordy doesn't necessarily mean serious about having a conversation either. All the standard D&D stuff feeds into that. Using more words than a simple one-liner helps to ensure that you can clearly express and communicate your position. Citing sources for your statements helps to counter people's tendency to state their opinion as fact or uncritically repeat wild Twitter rumors as truth. Keeping the insults and personal attacks under control helps reinforce that we're just having a chat rather than getting into a petty internet slapfight. And so on. Clarity of communication is super loving important. The mods have some role to play in facilitating that, of course, but the posters themselves also have a crucial role to play. And that role can best be summed up as "stop acting like a boomer who's just discovered the ability to yell at people on the internet for the first time". I'm not singling out anyone in particular with this, it's just kind of a general observation for all of D&D: If a bad post goes unpunished for a couple of hours, loving deal with it. Pretend we're functional human beings who can exercise a bit of patience and let things slide a for a little while. It's annoying when someone posts a dumbass take or one we personally find morally abhorrent, but we don't have to immediately poo poo our pants over it and start flinging it everywhere while screaming for the zookeepers to come clean everything up for us.
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Nov 8, 2023 01:39
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on the subject of ramping, i think there's a currently ongoing example of someone who just keeps getting short probes over and over for doing the same poo poo constantly, despite the fact that the short probes and mild rapsheet scoldings clearly aren't working i'm going to redact their username, but this user has a very distinctive rapsheet so I don't think it'll be hard for anyone to figure out who they are  i'm not saying they should get ban+monthed or something, but this does not look like someone who is being dissuaded by dayprobes but this sort of thing happens a lot in D&D, where someone can reliably get 1-2 probes every week and it just never really escalates from there. i'm bringing this particular user up as a topical example, not to single them out specifically
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Nov 8, 2023 05:07
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Fuschia tude posted:You uh might want to reread those ban reasons if you think you redacted their username 
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Nov 8, 2023 05:47
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