4th Quarter 2023 D&D Feedback.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > 4th Quarter 2023 D&D Feedback.

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

I think the whole "we don't moderate positions" is pointless, because even if that is/was true (maybe) the people who complained endlessly about it in the first place that ended us with Koos still complain about it so it really isn't working.

One of the core issues is we have a group of people that really aren't here to post with anyone, they are here to post at people to tell them off because they think D&D is full of evil libs or fascist or whatever, then everyone else is meant to pretend that this person that has been farming you for SYQ for 10 years is posting earnestly.

Koos was brought in to reduce reports/noise from D&D and they've stated himself they don't care about quantity of posts so I think the overall goal is just drive most of the regulars out with bullshit rules from a person that doesn't actually engage with the forum itself which has seemed successful.

At the very least the electorialism poo poo needs it's containment zone or it is going to endlessly dominate every single thread even remotely tied to US politics.

# ¿ Nov 5, 2023 08:57

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 03:06

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

Jakabite posted:

See I had no idea and generally don�t vibe with CSPAM�s whole edgy terminally online thing, but I thought it was pretty drat apt. Also what the gently caress

Yeah you'd think it would be enough for a new mod, but this is what admins want a D&D where everyone thinks the rules are dumb as poo poo.

# ¿ Nov 5, 2023 18:16

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

WarpedLichen posted:

I think that is wishful thinking, posting dead bodies in a topic has not really changed anybody's mind on anything in the past. People can always justify it away and it just makes the thread worse off. It usually just serves to start a 2 minutes hate, which can be cathartic, but not really in a healthy way.

We all wish we can make people change their minds based on atrocity, but real reckoning doesn't happen this way.

Yeah there were people denying Bucha ever happened. Linking to the photos/videos of the evidence would not change their mind as they are already steadfast in their "side"

# ¿ Nov 5, 2023 19:10

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

the_steve posted:

The CSPAM quote farming gets a lot of heat simply because you can actually see it on here.

I mean, it's a well-known fact that there are off-site discords for d&d regulars to complain about their posting enemies and how unfair it is that they're allowed to disagree with the thread regulars without catching a ban for hurting their feelings or to coordinate report dogpiles to at least try to make it happen.

But, that's off-site, so there's nothing to be realistically done about that.

But a syq in the succ zone? Even if you scrub the names, you can still see people making fun of your dumb poo poo genocide apologia takes or whatever opinions you have that can't stand any form of disagreement or ridicule.

Well-known or a well repeated lie? I here lots of conspiracy theories about secret discords and but it always is just nonsense. You are trying to compare something we can all see with some imaginary enemy you've invented. Hell a semi-official USPOL Discord exists that was created during the initial Lowtax troubles, they actually ban talking about the forums 99% of the time.

Discendo Vox posted:

I've told you, at length, in detail, why I can't. You know that it's because of the harassment and spreadsheet poo poo that you and previous mods and admins have encouraged. Why the hell would you think this is an okay thing to say?

I really want you to loving stop "making fun of" what you're doing. It's completely indistinguishable from your policy, and I don't think you can tell the difference when you're "not meant to be taken seriously" either.

Yeah, not that you wouldn't be a bad mod, but most of the people recommending you become mod are the same people who creepily post about how much they hate you all the time which means the motivations behind such things are quite clear and gross.

# ¿ Nov 5, 2023 20:26

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

the_steve posted:

The off-site DnD discords have been repeatedly confirmed, usually in relation to someone in CSPAM getting doxxed or otherwise targeted for harassment.

Confirmed by who? Where? I'm going to need more than your random word there's a secret cabal of D&D users out there doxxing people.

# ¿ Nov 5, 2023 20:42

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

World Famous W posted:

to solve syq bring back blow thread

or a thinderdome. or all come to uspol and we'll hash it out

Increasing the amount of petty sniping and cross forum harassment and otherizing will just continue to drive people out of here.

# ¿ Nov 5, 2023 21:47

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

Mid-Life Crisis posted:

D&D today is like reading about �settled science� during peak COVID. Not sure if I ever saw a bit of �settled science� that didn�t get blown apart under scrutiny later, at least in scope of how it was discussed in the press, by the feds, or online (and not by the actual scientists themselves who would have been careful not to talk about the work in such ways). Swaths of posters don�t want certain topics discussed at all and it�s rooted in bad faith.

Would be helpful if you had an example here.

# ¿ Nov 5, 2023 22:00

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

VitalSigns posted:

Objectively it is bizarre that if you show someone a picture of the aftermath of airstriking an ambulance full of kids you get banned but advocating airstriking the ambulance in the first place is perfectly acceptable. Clearly, actually bombing kids is more harmful than simply showing people the real human cost of what they support, especially if the latter is done to try to convince people to stop supporting mass murder.

But it's not mysterious when you look at the policy as just flowing downstream from how war is packaged and sold by the ruling class and their media, as this antiseptic thing where you push some buttons and some red lights on a map wink out on an electronic map, and reasonable people can disagree about whether any kids/medics/journalists/etc in the area were in league with the terrorists.

Absent a massive propaganda machine to manufacture consent for infinite war, a sensible policy would be to ban images of horrible violence and ban advocating for that horrible violence to be done to those people in the first place, but that's not how we're primed to view the conversation.

If you feel you should be able to link people dying there is an active SAD thread about the topic that will probably supersede any decision Koos makes about the topic.

# ¿ Nov 5, 2023 22:57

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

Panzeh posted:

I will say this- i think it would cut down on a lot of the talking past each other if people only attributed positions to specific posters or people, and actually had to quote the post in question rather than vague swipes.

Hell yeah, a single bad poster, even if dozens of people shout them down becomes "the thread all believes what this bad poster did" it's exhausting to deal with endlessly.

# ¿ Nov 5, 2023 23:44

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

Staluigi posted:

I don't know if it matters to the argument at this point but i was actually exposed to research and practice about this specific issue and it turns out exposing people to gory context regarding a multitude of issues is actually one of the best ways to change people's minds about oppressive systems. I might wish this wasn't the case but it was shockingly effective throughout

The best way we ever saw to shock people out of complacency for police brutality was expressly trying to share and boost visibility of video of police killings, especially the infamous hotel Simon Says video and all those reels of police popping beloved family pets like it some kind of trophy shoot. The best way we had to slap people right off the fence about mass shootings and permissive gun laws was showing the bodies. Same poo poo happening in israel right now, and it's been pretty consistent with warcrimes footage in ukraine, I'm almost certain

it's actually one of the reasons why certain groups clutch pearls hard enough to turn them into diamonds over "displaying heartless gore" when it's definitely going to change people's minds over time if the way the events are reported isn't heavily sanitized and cordoned off. I don't know how much i like this as reality but gets you thinking about the deliberacy of groups that tried to stop us showing police killings to complacent fairweather "allies" while the police just kept killing and killing and killing and killing and i have a tendency to remember it when looking at poo poo like all this and trying to figure oh no i gotta go looking for the Bad Faith Bogeyman again cause gonna bet

I started with an interest in wanting to make the letters-from-birmingham rear end White Liberal compelled to actually see police violence and murder in action, to keep them from keeping that as an abstract concept in their minds rather than constant and state sanctioned terror. And i definitely want the realities of communal punishment and violent ethnic cleansing in palestine absolutely jammed in the faces of people day in and day out

so i guess i got 2 dogs in the fight till the cops plug them at least

SIDE NOTE: also found out that the absolute best way to increase sympathy and support for cops was if people saw videos of them dealing with belligerent sovereign citizens like this 100% catapulted them in the opposite direction of acab

Who are these certain groups? Are they posters? Could you quote them?

# ¿ Nov 6, 2023 00:26

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

It was better for a while but the I/P stuff has inflamed things, the elections gonna be a shitshow too.

# ¿ Nov 6, 2023 17:28

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

WarpedLichen posted:

I don't think those are two separate things though? I think you can troll with earnestly held beliefs - where you post something you know the majority would disagree with and then fail to engage with the conversation afterwards. That's why I always though the fixation on "good faith" is kinda silly, because it's not about posters not being earnest, its posters not having basic pattern recognition and posting poo poo that stirs up a poo poo storm every time with the same people and presenting no new evidence or data.

Yeah the problem isn't disagreeing, it's intentionally poo poo stirring at people you perceive as your enemies because you post 100x a day in a thread dedicated to making them out to be the worst evils of the world.

I used to really like D&D, I have no idea how far post history goes back but I had my mind changed about all sorts of dumb/evil poo poo I believed in like the death penalty and white privilege and a large part of that was people being able and willing to call me on my bullshit and engage with me earnestly instead of trying to farm me for SYQ nonsense.

I don't even remember what the username was but there was a CSPAM Poster who regged an alt back in the 2020 election and would make endless obvious troll posts and anyone who called it out got probed but not them. Then during a feedback thread like this they proclaimed they were a troll all along and bragged about how they owned us all. The thing is everyone knew they were a troll and most people stopped saying anything because you aren't allowed to. This bullshit these days were we have to pretend someone who has trolled us a 100x times or is posting for 50th time the exact same argument but no one is allowed to call them out is just killing D&D and ruining a place that used to be at least decent at getting informed and getting different perspectives.

# ¿ Nov 6, 2023 18:13

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

selec posted:

�Harvested and targeted� this is just Qanon about the forums. I am entertained by reading good posts, and sometimes making posts and responding to posts. That you have theorycrafted a whole metanarrative around people posting, by and large for fun, is wild poo poo.

Would you say you�re having fun posting? Is it a good time? Because if not, why are you here, instead of someplace that fits your idea of seriousness that this of all places obviously doesn�t, and causes this constant struggle posting from you to make it something that it�s not? I do think there�s a good purpose served by having DND and CSPAM, but I think that deciding we�re going to lock DND down the way you want to doesn�t serve a meaningful audience.

Like, if I ever get as worked up about the forums as you seem to be rn, that�s a sign I need to take a break, rather than post harder. I don�t mean to get personal but if you�re not having fun, it�s not a requirement to be here. You can take a break and come back when it�s fun again. Lord knows I�ve had times when I was posting too hard and getting too mad�my rap sheet is testament. Since I made the conscious decision that if I�m getting so angry I end up probed behind it, that�s me using the site wrong, and that I need to check in with myself and ask �am I having fun?� it�s been a much more fun and rewarding experience.

Why this weird constant pretending that succ doesn't exist? You post in it, you know what it does, why pretend otherwise?

# ¿ Nov 6, 2023 18:44

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

Foxrunsecurity posted:

I don't think that a level of paranoia that would lead someone to believe posts they made in public being blind quoted for a chuckle in another part of the same forums means scary authoritarians are coming to get them or are is a sign of creeping fascism is at all healthy and an environment leading to that mindset should be discouraged.

Who believes this?

# ¿ Nov 6, 2023 19:06

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

Bwee posted:

A "rival subforum" that's allowed to make fun of D&D posters without those posters being allowed to do the same or (realistically) defend themselves is kinda messed up imo

FYAD does the same but they typically don't touch the poop which works out fine, it's the combination of the mock threads and then posting with them to rile them up intentionally that ruins any attempts at taking a person at face value.

# ¿ Nov 6, 2023 19:28

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

Nothing is improved by more forum war nonsense.

# ¿ Nov 6, 2023 20:50

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

Gumball Gumption posted:

What do you think would happen there that would be worse than what happens here when you post? You can actually tell the genocidal weirdos to gently caress off there.

I don't read CSPAM but I've seen probes in the lepers colony on people for calling out Russia for the horrible poo poo it's doing in Ukraine so I'm not sure how true all that is. Also the idea of posting with a bunch of posters who've been reading and reposting my boring posts for years obsessively, who have sent me many many harassment PMs and who name drop me directly in SAD as some sort of evil D&D mastermind despite my maybe 20ish posts there a month is not appealing in the slightest.

I just want to post about politics with people who also want to post about politics and not someone who's being a poo poo so he can run back to his buddies and tell everyone how much he owned the libs.

# ¿ Nov 7, 2023 00:15

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

Thorn Wishes Talon posted:

The following might be considered as grudge-posting but I think it's topical for this thread, especially given the current topic and your post above in particular: I'm genuinely confused why you have been posting in D&D for years and continue to, considering you hold this subforum and its regulars (and mods) in such deep contempt:

The ironic thing about the above bit is that you were actually an IK of USPOL at some point (as laughable as that is) and you used to do the exact type of poo poo that you're now "braying about", in your own words. You weren't quite as blatant and shameless about your abuse of your position as your fellow then-IK Majorian was (who was actually dumb enough to get caught openly taking orders/direction from the freaks over in succzone about which D&D poster to probate next), but it was very obvious to anyone who was actually watching that you would constantly give sixers to whoever dared disagree with him even slightly, and he did the same for you. So it is quite rich that you are now flinging these accusations and criticisms at the current cohort of mods and posters.

This does seem like a valid question, there's a whole group of posters that seem to hate D&D with a burning passion but cannot stop posting in and about it for years endlessly. I don't read feedback threads in other forums does Pet Island have a whole barrage of people coming in saying how much they hate it and constantly posting how it needs to be destroyed. Does the CSPAM feedback thread have a bunch of D&D regulars posting it about how much they don't like CSPAM? The whole deal just seems way too online.

# ¿ Nov 7, 2023 15:14

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

gurragadon posted:

You should leave this feedback thread open permanently and maybe close it every once in a while if it goes off topic. Private messaging a moderator is not a substitute. Many people want to give their feedback in a public forum so others can add on to their feedback and so they know that their feedback is at least being seen by someone. Leaving the thread open through the week is an improvement because many people don't even use the forums on the weekend though. Private messaging is also a premium feature and feedback should not be reserved for only premium users.

Having a thread quarterly (was 3rd quarter skipped this year or am I missing it?) has everyone try to get all their opinions out at once which leads to more fighting as less results. Many problems would be solved better if they were dealt with sooner and with the events more recent in everyone's mind.

Yeah the problem with PMs is others cannot see the reasoning/ruling behind various things which seems like how lurkers/posters find out about things.

# ¿ Nov 7, 2023 15:34

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

the_steve posted:

You really need to provide some evidence or stop trying to spread this blatant lie.

And I'm really not sure what point you think you were making by posting me saying the same thing in two different forums other than your desperate attempt to stir up some cross-forum drama.

the_steve posted:

The off-site DnD discords have been repeatedly confirmed, usually in relation to someone in CSPAM getting doxxed or otherwise targeted for harassment.

I feel this is a two way street on evidence. To bring this more to the D&D feedback level I think more enforcement on baseless claims in general would help, making points without any sort of evidence or backing leads to pointless circular arguments.

# ¿ Nov 7, 2023 18:54

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

WarpedLichen posted:

This take is kind of over the top, but it's kinda scary how deeply rooted this is. I don't hold an identity as a DnD poster, and it seems kinda weird that there even would or should be one. I think part of the problem is that there exists the idea of the "DnD poster" who tacitly likes every post in this forum and thinks it is above mockery, which is false. It really feels like there are posters who are really into the us vs them mentality (see the new thread spun from the discussion) and it's just super dumb to even buy into it.

Yeah D&D is not a subforum that people live their entire life in, we don't have/need threads for games or assorted other poo poo really and I think that is for the best. It's like identifying as a capital G Gamer it just feels very offputting. Especially as many of our threads are islands to themselves like the various region/country threads that don't have much crossover with anything else.

# ¿ Nov 7, 2023 19:23

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

Eason the Fifth posted:

Give all D&D posters the ability to probe each other for 6 hours. If you really don't like someone you can probe them and they can probe you back! This will improve the discourse.

Sure, but you can't probe someone if you've been probed, wild west dueling style.

# ¿ Nov 7, 2023 20:32

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 03:06

socialsecurity: Aug 30, 2003

Yeah I've gotten more for "posting about posters" that's just stupid.

# ¿ Nov 8, 2023 15:39

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