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Koos Group posted:Please refrain from condescension toward other posters, such as name you changed when quoting. However I won't be punishing you for it as the rest of this post is very good. Thank you. Can you please clarify this idea - how much racism is allowed in a good post without punishment? How much white noise cheerleading? Perhaps you can update the rules to asterisk the rules which you’ll waive because the post is “good”. Of course you won’t actually do this, because this was off-the-cuff bullshit on your part, but let me explain why this is terrible policy. First, if you’re trying to encourage a substantive discussion, this is the worst way to do it. Some people will simply ignore posts with good points if they contain personal attacks against them, as I did. Some will instead just counter-attack in response, but either way you’re not getting a good debate out if it, because you’re tilting the playing field. Second, it’s impossible to extricate the concept of a “good” post from “a post I personally agree with”. Even if you want to argue that the post was objectively well-cited, you’ve personally bent over backwards to punish a cited post of mine that didn’t contain a personal attack, but did stir up the anthill. It’s almost like the term “good post” is inherently subjective and biased by our own beliefs, so enforcing the rules as-written is the best way to operate? And it this doesn’t just involve me - anyone sufficiently outside the accepted center-left spectrum has to deal with this inconsistent and piss-poor moderation. Let’s look at a different example. Whatever you think about the OPs post, they felt strongly about it, and took the time to write up their thoughts, only to face low-effort snark in return. Absolutely the opposite of what you claim to stand for. This post was reported, why wasn’t it punished? Because the target’s positions don’t fall in line with the general thread’s. But if I responded in-kind to one of the many leftist effortpost/meltdowns here, I’d be punished faster than it takes to type ‘snowflake’. Not even the ‘zero tolerance’ I/P thread is immune from bullshit snark going unpunished. I was really hopeful when you took over, but this is way worse than before. You routinely subject out-of-band political posts to the highest level of scrutiny, while people in line with your beliefs get away with whatever they want. At least FoS and crew wore their biases in their sleeves, you collectively just hide behind the “WE DONT MODERATE POSITIONS THOUGH” lie. Whether you’re lying to yourselves, doing it intentionally, or just not wanting to deal with the blowback, I can’t say. But you need to decide if you want to be in charge of a real venue for discussion where the rules are equally applied, or just run a cool kids lunch table.
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Nov 5, 2023 06:07
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Jaxyon posted:Anyhow, if you want to talk about bad faith and lacking substantive discussion, your entire MO as long as I've seen your posts is to post a controversial position, and then never ever participate in discussion of it. There are a number of headwinds here against letting a real discussion develop. As I said, I won’t respond to posts containing invective or personal attacks, as a matter of both principle and self-preservation. So if you find it annoying that I’m not responding to you, start by looking inward. VitalSigns posted:Tbf the way moderation operates if you post an opinion too far from the median political alignment in here you pretty much have to drop an argument pretty quickly, because if you're getting dogpiled you're making people angry and it's typically assumed that any opinion that makes too many people angry must be a troll. Actual disagreement and debate on a controversial topic is considered a fail state by the moderation team. And by most of the posters left. Yep, one of our most venerable mods operates entirely in an intuitive fog of “any position I don’t agree with can’t possibly be anything but a troll”, it’s incredible. Plus, you know, human nature dictates that it’s easier to hand out one undeserved probe to calm things down than five justified ones.
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Nov 5, 2023 19:42
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Koos Group posted:No amount of rulebreaking is allowed in a good post. But a high quality post does lead to enforcement being more lenient, starting with a warning. If someone is posting well but absolutely insists on breaking some rule, they will have to be punished after a warning. I didn't make that clear in the example you provided, which is my fault. That all sounds very reasonable. What makes it bullshit is that post was actually the third in a series of other posts by the same poster that were reported for personal attacks and backseat modding. So it’s not a case of giving someone a one-time break, they’re already a repeat offender and you’re cherry picking one post and finger wagging with a “don’t do it again” and a wink. You can’t sit there and tell me you regularly give out warnings like that, either. quote:Your first example does appear to have been a mistake. I assume it was not me who handled it, as I would have probed the poster, but it is old enough that it would be difficult to find the mod who handled it or their reasoning at this point (we have a poorly implemented report system). The second one also probably should have been probed, though the mod handling it might have found it clever and amusing enough not to do so. I actually don’t care about the reasons these individual posts weren’t punished, they’re just two examples of a much larger pattern that stuck out to me. I’m asking you to address the root cause, which isn’t just a hand-wavy “we missed that one”. You missed it because a mod agreed with one person and disagreed with the other, and let their biases get in the way. Throw a stone here and you’ll hit two other similar posts. I had a great conversation with Inferior Third Season awhile back where they explained from their point of view, some posts are 51% probe-worthy, and others are 49%. It’s essentially a coin flip. I appreciate their explanation, and I’m not saying they’re being intentionally disingenuous, but after the eighth or ninth consecutive lost coin flip, you have to consider that perhaps being the only nominal conservative here is the deciding factor. It’s exhausting, and I’m not playing that game anymore when you won’t even admit there’s an issue. I’m not the only one saying that ITT, and you know you’ve already lost some thoughtful left-wing posters for the same reason.
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Nov 5, 2023 23:01
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That forumban was just a one-off, we really do want your honest feedback here. *Cocks pistol*
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Nov 7, 2023 14:29
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