|
quote:“So, the cat is inside the box, okay, and there’s a flask of poison in there, too, which can break open at any time. The cat might die and it might not. Now, we don’t know if it’s alive or dead in there until we open the box to check. Okay?”  Inspired by Jedit's original Quantum Mafia.  Final Probability Table code:Or, rather: the game starts in a quantum superposition of every possible random assignment of roles. I'm going to refer to each possibility as a universe, to keep things simple. In a normal mafia game, this superposition would collapse down to a single possibility when the roles were handed out. In this game, the superposition persists during play, and possible universes vanish as a result of your actions. Like regular mafia, the game ends when town catches all scum - or when scum wins, in every remaining universe. The game will be coordinated over my Discord server. Please join if you wish to sign up or observe. Basic Setup This is a game for 19 players. There are 3 scum, a detective who investigates players, an entangler who creates masonries through quantum entanglement, a follower (really more of a watcher) who can see who visited someone each night, and a guard that can protect players from nightkills - or detectives. Everybody else is ordinary. (More details on roles can be found in 'The Roles In Detail', below.) In normal mafia, players would get a private message at the start of the game that states their role. In Quantumafia, players instead get a message with their percentage chance of being town, scum, and the detective, entangler, follower, or guard. This message is updated every day and every night, as players' actions cause the chances to change. The Public Probability Table Every day and night, the status of all players is also posted publicly, in a probability table that shows their percentage chance of being different roles. In the public probability table, players are identified by codewords. Their name is not shown unless they are out of the game. Each player knows their own codeword, but no one else's. For players who are still in the game, the table displays, as a percentage of existing universes:
For players who are out of the game, the table displays their codeword, name, cause of death, and their confirmed role. Votes and Actions During the day, players vote for someone, who is then executed. This kills them in every universe. (see 'Death and Flips', below) At night, if a player has any chance of being a role, they submit a night action for that role. That means that at the start of the game, everybody will submit five night actions: one each for scum, the detective, the entangler, the follower, and the guard. Generally, night actions will only go off in the universes where the submitter has that role - so if player X nightkills you, you don't die in every universe - just the ones where X is scum and has the nightkill. (If a night action behaves differently than this, it'll be detailed in the description of the role.) There will be a Night 0 before the game begins, where everyone submits only an entangler action. This ensures (hopefully) players start the game with a masonry in hand. Death and Flips You are only out of the game when you are dead in every remaining universe. If you are voted out, this kills you in every universe immediately. However, nightkills won't kick you out of the game unless that nightkill killed you in all the universes where you're still alive. This means that you could die early on in some set of universes, but only stop existing later on, when other possible universes vanish and leave that set the only option. Once you are out of the game, you flip - your waveform collapses, and a single role is randomly assigned to you... based on your current probability to be each role, that is. Any possible universes that contradict your flip collapse as well, and no longer exist. Only the remaining universes are counted when resolving possibilities, for the rest of the game. (If you got voted out, any universes where you got nightkilled beforehand also collapse, as you can't be killed twice.) Because of this, as people are voted out and their role determined, the list of possible role assignments becomes smaller and smaller over the course of the game. By the end, only a few possibilities will remain. The Roles, In Detail A, B, C: Scum 3 players are scum, labeled Alpha (A), Beta (B), and Gamma (C). They win when there are more scum players than other players. Only alpha scum have the ability to nightkill. Beta and gamma scum serve as backups for alpha scum, and take over (as detailed below) if the alpha scum player is voted out. (Don't worry. If Alice is alpha scum in one universe and Bob is beta scum, there's another universe where Alice is beta scum and Bob is alpha scum. Everyone starts in every possible role.) If a universe exists where you are alpha scum, you submit a nightkill each night, choosing a single other player to kill. On submitting a nightkill, in universes where you are alive and are alpha scum:
In universes where the alpha scum dies, the beta scum [if there is one] promotes to being the new alpha scum, and the gamma scum [if there is one] promotes to being the new beta scum. If you and another living player both have 100% chance of being scum, you’ll get your own private chat channel. D: Detective 1 player is the detective. They win when all mafia players are confirmed dead. If a universe exists where you are the detective, you submit an investigation each night, choosing a single other player to investigate. On submitting an investigation, you receive a report on the target’s possible alignments - in all universes where you are the detective, and alive, that is. You can’t investigate the others! This report will be of the form: “As the detective, you investigated SoAndSo (and are alive) in 270 universes. They are vanilla town in 30, hold a town power role (the follower or guard) in 72, are the entangler in 36, are scum in 72, and are dead in 60." One warning: If your target is protected by the guard in some universe, your investigation attempt will make that universe collapse, instead (!). You won't be notified if this happens - investigation results only look at surviving universes. E: Entangler 1 player is the entangler. They win when all mafia players are confirmed dead. If a universe exists where you are the entangler, you submit a join request each night, where you name a single player you want to pull into a two-person masonry. (This can be yourself.) Up to two masonries will be created from the nightly pool of join requests, by pairing up the four players that seem to 'need' a masonry most (favoring people with the fewest current masonries, and then after that the people with the most requests. Full details on the masonry-making algorithm is in 'How Masonries Are Created', in the Supplementary Rules post). Note: During Night 0, as many masonries as possible will be made instead. When a player joins a masonry, they are notified of the names of possible entanglers that pulled them into it. Masonries continue until one member dies, or something else happens to disturb it:
The entangler has quantum immortality; they cannot die unless their death would end the game, or if no other possibility exists. Therefore, if a player dies, they cannot have been the entangler, and all universes where they would have died as the entangler will collapse instead. This can cause masonries to close, as described above. F: Follower 1 player is the follower. They win when all mafia players are confirmed dead. If a universe exists where you are the follower, you watch a player each night. (This can be yourself, but not two nights in a row.) The next day, you will receive a list of all players who visited your target in any remaining universe. It doesn’t matter whether you are alive or dead in those universes - or even if every universe where you were the follower collapsed! If you submitted a watch and you're not out of the game by the next day, you will receive a result. Example follower result: "CoolFish, HammerThonker, IsThisASeagull, and LLL23Guy all visited SoAndSo last night, each visiting in some surviving universe." A player visits someone if they are scum performing a nightkill, the detective performing an investigation, or the guard protecting that player. G: Guard 1 player is the guard. They know quantum kung-fu, and win when all mafia players are confirmed dead. If a universe exists where you are the guard, you protect another player each night. If scum attempts to nightkill your target in a universe where you are guarding them, the kill will fail. They will be notified that the guard fought them off, but not who you are. If a detective attempts to investigate your target, the universe in which you are the guard and they are the detective will collapse! Neither of you will be notified of the collapsed universe; they will only get results from universes where their investigation succeeded. T: Town Everybody else is Town. They win when all mafia players are confirmed dead. Collapsing Universes: A Summary In total, here are all possible ways a universe can collapse: • If player A is voted out, any universe where they were nightkilled beforehand will collapse. • Any universe where A is the entangler will also collapse unless A is the entangler in every universe. • If player A tries to nightkill player B, any universe where A is alpha scum and B is also scum will collapse. • Any universe where A is alpha scum and B is the entangler will also collapse unless B is the entangler in every universe. • If player A tries to investigate player B, and player C is guarding player B, any universe where A is the detective and C is the guard will collapse unless one of A or C gets nightkilled first. • If player A flips as a specific result (such as vanilla town), any universe where they were a different result (such as, scum, or the detective) will collapse. Days and Nights Days will be 48 hours long while 10 or more players remain alive, and 24 hours thereafter. The game uses supermajority voting: once 75% of living players vote for someone, the day ends immediately (hammer) and that person is executed. Otherwise, the player with the most votes at the end of the voting period is executed. In the event of a tie, one of the tied players will be randomly executed. No-lunches are not allowed: if no one votes, a player will be randomly executed. Nights will be, at most, 48 hours long. Once everyone has submitted all of their night actions, they will end immediately, so please submit quickly! You must use every night action you have - if the 48 hours are up and you haven't submitted a night action, targets will be chosen randomly. Generally, days and nights will begin around 11 PM Pacific time. This may vary depending on how quickly days and nights end. Quackles’ Basic Rules of Mafia Games 1. Do not quote, screencap, etc. any messages received privately, until the game is over. This includes private channels, DMs, etc. 2. Don't edit your posts in gameplay channels, or the thread. 3. If you are out of the game, don't talk in the thread, or any gameplay channel other than the observer channel. Health and Safety It's possible to become overwhelmed easily playing mafia. If you end up feeling upset, overloaded, or just plain weird, feel free to reach out to any of: • myself • the moderators of Traditional Games, Leperflesh and Antivehicular • Mafia regulars VoodooFly, Hal Insandenza, Bifauxnen, Monathin, Wologar, Maerlyn, Cloacamazing!, EccoRaven, CCKeane, Opopanax, Sandwolf or Shellception. Don't be afraid to take care of yourself first. Participants If you sign up, don't forget to join the Discord!
Cohost: Ignatius M. Meen Timeline Night 0 - Game Start Day 1 Night 1 - Pinterest Mom voted out Day 2 Night 2 - Johnny Keats voted out Day 3 Night 3 - death cob for cutie voted out Day 4 Night 4 - JosefStalinator voted out Day 5 Night 5 - CubicalSucrose voted out Day 6 Night 6 - Tired Moritz voted out, Bifauxnen dies Day 7 Night 7 - wins32767 voted out, PhantomMuzzles, shwinnebego, and wologar die Day 8 Finale - Cap Foo voted out, Hal and Maugrim die, TOWN VICTORY The game is won. Quackles fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Dec 11, 2023 |
#
?
Nov 13, 2023 06:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 19, 2024 03:18 |
|
|
Supplementary Information This post has additional information that might be useful. How Masonries Are Chosen Masonries are selected from the pool of join requests in a deterministic (non-random) way. Here is how it works: We start by taking the pool of join requests submitted during the night, and we list the requested players in the following sort order:
Once the list is in order, try to make a masonry with players #1 and #2 on that list. If this masonry already exists, try with players #1 and #3, then #1 and #4, and so on. When two players are pulled into a masonry, remove them from the list. If either of those players had two masonries already, their oldest masonry closes and we sort the list again (the person on the other side of the closed masonry will move towards the top of the list if they’re on it). Finally, we go to the top of the list and start again. We continue making masonries until we run out of list, or until every player left on the list has two masonries AND we’ve made at least two masonries tonight. Exception: During Night 0, we make as many masonries as possible. Full Night Order of Operations Night actions are evaluated in this order. For each universe in turn: 1. The guard and follower take up their positions, if they are alive. 2. Scum attempt to nightkill. If they would kill another scum, the universe collapses. Otherwise, if the guard blocks them, nothing happens. If neither condition happens, the target dies if possible. 3. If the detective is alive, they investigate their target. If the guard is alive and blocks them, the universe collapses. Across all universes: 4. We check to see if someone is now completely dead. If so, they flip, and all contradictory universes are removed. This can ‘cascade’ and cause more people to be retroactively dead, so we continue until the situation is stable. 5. If scum has won in every universe, the game now ends in a scum victory. If everyone is dead in every universe, the game now ends in a draw. Otherwise, we continue. 6. The entangler does their job (see ‘How Masonries Are Chosen’, above). For each surviving universe in turn: 7. If the detective investigated successfully, the target’s affiliation (including any power role) is added to their pool of results. 8. If the follower took up their position at the start of the night in any universe (whether or not it’s still here), visit results for this universe are added to their pool of results. Finally: 9. Everyone gets a DM saying what happened to them overnight in all surviving universes. Quackles fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Nov 15, 2023 |
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2023 06:02
|
|
|
Quantumafia - Tutorials Quantum mechanics can be counterintuitive sometimes. To illustrate how the game works, the following posts are four examples of what happens when five people - Alice, Bob, Carla, Dave, and Ellie - sit down to play Quantumafia. Tutorial 1: The Basics In this example, the game has one scum, and no other roles. At the start of the game, the list of universes (which, normally, the host keeps private) looks like this: code:code:During Day 1, Ellie is voted out. She now has an 80% chance of flipping as town and 20% chance of flipping as scum. After a quick die roll, the host determines that Ellie was Town. Because Ellie was town, universe #5 (where she was scum) collapses, and going into Night 1, the game state looks like this: code:code:Alice, Bob, and Carla all decide to nightkill Dave. Dave decides to nightkill Bob. The next morning, we see this: code:code:Suppose Dave is voted out: If Dave is voted out, all the universes where Dave was nightkilled collapse (because he needs to be alive to be voted out). So, Universes #1-3 vanish, and only Universe #4 remains. Because he was killed in all universes where he was town, Dave’s chance of scum goes to 100%! Dave immediately flips scum and the game ends. (This is why the probability table uses codewords to hide who’s who. Otherwise you could just read off who’s most likely to be scum and vote them out.) Suppose Bob is voted out: If Bob is voted out, Universe #4 collapses since he was nightkilled by Dave there instead. He has a 2 in 3 chance of rolling town, and a 1 in 3 chance of rolling scum. Regardless of what he flips, there is a side effect of this decision: Dave is now dead in all universes, so Dave dies immediately (!) and flips town. If Bob is not scum, the game continues with everybody having equal chances of being town and scum again. Suppose Alice is voted out: If Alice is voted out, things play out about the same. There is a 75% (3 in 4) chance Alice rolls town, and a 25% (1 in 4) chance Alice rolls scum. (Note: This scenario also applies to Carla.) If Alice rolls scum, Dave dies immediately, as above. However, if Alice rolls town, three possible universes will be left: code:code:code:code:Quackles fucked around with this message at 10:19 on Nov 13, 2023 |
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2023 06:02
|
|
|
Tutorial 2: Multiple Scum In this example, the game has two scum, and no other roles. This would normally be too crowded for a five-player game, but it’s a good way to illustrate how nightkills work when there’s more than one scum in play. At the start of the game, there are 20 possible universes - one for every possible pick of two scum players, where one is Alpha Scum (A) and one is Beta Scum (B). code:code:code:code:However, there are two catches. First off: the kill only goes through in universes where the player is the alpha scum. In universes where they are the beta scum, the kill does nothing, and the actual alpha scum gets the kill instead. Second off: scum can’t kill other scum. So, since Alice and Bob decide to nightkill Dave, the universes where those two are alpha scum and Dave is their beta scum (#3 and #7) collapse! So does the universe where Dave is alpha scum and Bob is beta scum (#14), and the universe where Carla is alpha scum and Alice is beta scum (#9). Once the dust settles, things look like this: code:code:For the sake of dramatic effect, let’s say that Carla is voted out next, in Day 2. She flips scum. We remove universes #1, #5, and #13, where she was Town. Now for the really important part. Carla was alpha scum in universes #10 and #11. In these universes, Bob and Dave (respectively) become the new alpha scum. code:code:(Alice has only one meaningful target - Bob - so she targets him.) In universes where scum tries to nightkill a dead person, nothing changes. Otherwise, the kill goes through normally. Once the dust settles, we’re left with: code:code:If Alice is voted out, she has an equal chance to flip town or scum. Either way, the game ends - in a scum victory if she’s town (Universe #15 - Dave is the scum), or a draw if she’s scum, as everyone’s dead (Universe #2). If Bob is voted out, he flips scum. That leaves us with Universes #6 and #10. Universe #6 is a draw, but in this case, since we found all scum and someone is alive in some remaining universe (#10), the game ends in a town victory for Dave. If Dave is voted out, he has a 1 in 3 chance to flip town and a 2 in 3 chance to flip scum. Whatever Dave flips, the game ends in a victory for the opposite side - if he’s town, Bob claims a scum victory. If Dave’s scum, universe #11 is a draw but universe #15 secures the town victory for Alice. At this point, the players complain to the host, saying there’s too many mafia in for the number of players. The host resolves to do better in future tutorials. Quackles fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Nov 14, 2023 |
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2023 06:02
|
|
|
Tutorial 3: The Entangler This time, there is one scum and one entangler. Because the entangler is present, the game starts with a ‘Night 0’ where only the entangler acts. At the start of Night 0, the game state looks like this: code:code:During Night 0, there are no nightkills. Players only submit join requests. Specifically: • Alice chooses Dave. Dave also picks himself. • Bob chooses Alice. • Carla chooses Ellie. • Ellie choses Carla. When the join requests are processed, this happens: As everyone has no masonries to their name, the primary factor that determines who gets chosen will be how many times each player was requested. Dave has 2 join requests, while Alice, Carla, and Ellie each have one. Bob did not get any requests, so he has no chance of being added to a masonry. As Dave is at the top of the list, the first masonry will be Dave and one other person - but who? All of Alice, Carla, and Ellie are alive in the same number of universes, so as a tiebreaker, we fall back on probability table order. Alice is closest to the top, so she gets picked. The first masonry is Dave and Alice. Now, only Carla and Ellie are left on the list, so the second masonry created is Carla and Ellie. Dave is notified, privately, that either Alice or himself pulled him into the masonry. Alice, meanwhile, is told that Bob pulled her into the masonry. Carla and Ellie are each told that the other pulled them into their masonry - they are mutuals. At the start of Day 1, the probability table remains the same. Entangler activity does not cause universes to collapse or alter player probabilities. After some discussion (in which Ellie very nearly ends up voted out), the group decides to vote out Bob. Before the vote is processed, all universes where Bob is the entangler collapse. This means he cannot have pulled Alice into the Alice-Dave masonry. As no one else could have pulled Alice into that masonry to create it, the masonry collapses as well. (For comparison, if Alice had been voted out, the masonry would be able to continue to exist since it could have been created by Dave and Bob... except for the annoying little fact that Alice would be dead, that is.) Bob then flips town. As of Night 1, here is how things stand: code:code:Meanwhile, Alice decides to nightkill Carla, and Dave goes after Ellie. Alice had heard Dave explain how he’d voted for himself as the entangler last night, so she decides to submit a join request for herself. Dave, meanwhile, decides to submit a join request for Carla (not Ellie, who he nightkilled). This is the result: code:code:In the list of join requests, the list order goes Dave [no masonries, 2 requests], Alice [no masonries, 1 request], Carla [1 masonry, 1 request]. Because of this, Dave and Alice are reconnected! Dave learns that Carla or Ellie could have pulled him into the new version of the masonry, and Alice learns that she pulled herself into it. It’s now Day 2. At this point, Dave and Alice compare notes and conclude that Carla and Ellie have been acting together (the 50% dead on Alice, taken together with Carla and Ellie both masonrying Dave, feels suspicious, and Alice and Dave already trusted each other a bit from their earlier conversation). Their conjecture is proved when Carla and Ellie both try to vote out Alice, hoping she’ll flip scum and they can claim a town victory. Alice and Dave countervote Carla, and the vote deadlocks at a tie. The host flips a coin and the vote goes against Carla. Since Carla is being voted out now, universes where she already died and where she was the entangler collapse. This means that the Carla/Ellie masonry closes (both on grounds of Carla being unable to have invited Ellie and on the grounds of Carla being dead), but the Dave/Alice masonry does not (because Ellie could have pulled Dave into the masonry, while Alice pulled herself, so the masonry remains valid). Before the flip, the universe table looks like this: code:This means that the Dave/Alice masonry now collapses as well, as no one could have invited Dave into it. code:code:
Alice has reached the same conclusion: if she’s the entangler, Dave is scum and Ellie is dead. If she’s dead, Ellie is scum and Dave is the entangler. Ellie, meanwhile, knew that MINOR must be Alice ever since she and Carla saw the 50% dead appear on him and no one else. By process of elimination, FLOOR is Dave, and she can come to the same conclusion as everyone else. Both scum are in the deeply unusual position where their only valid target is the entangler, so that’s who they go after (Dave to NK Alice, and Ellie to NK Dave). At this point, the host has a problem: collapsing the universes where the nightkill targets were the entangler would remove all universes. So, they go to plan B, and set the entangler players to just ‘dead’ in those universes. Then, they check to see the side effects of that, and notice that Alice is now 100% dead. How will she flip? In Universe #13, Alice was the entangler. In Universe #20, she was vanilla town. The last gasp of the entangler’s quantum immortality triggers here - since Alice can flip something other than the entangler, she does! Universe #13 collapses, and the only universe that is left is Universe #20: code:Quackles fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Nov 14, 2023 |
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2023 06:02
|
|
|
Tutorial 4: Power Roles In this example, there is one scum, one detective, and one guard. Everyone submits three night actions - one for each role, every night. To avoid having to list out the entire table of universes (there’s 60 possible universes at game start), we’re going to skip ahead to after Day 1, where Ellie gets voted out and flips Vanilla Town. Sorry, Ellie. At Night 1, the probability table looks like this: code:code:This means that if someone’s Town% falls to 0%, their Power% must also be 0% - and in general, Power% must be the same, or less, than Town%. Note that in the full game, Power% does not include the entangler. Anyway, let’s say that, during the night, Alice and Bob nightkill Dave again. Dave goes for Bob, and Carla once again goes for Alice. However... everybody also submits an investigation and a protection target. Alice decides to investigate Carla. Bob investigates Alice. Carla investigates Dave. And Dave decides to investigate Bob, just to see what’ll happen if he investigates the same person he nightkills. For guarding, Alice decides to protect Dave, out of abject curiosity to see what’ll happen if the NK target and protection target are the same. Bob decides to protect Alice, as does Carla (she also can’t resist trying it). Dave decides to protect Carla. In 17 out of the 24 universes, the Guard’s night is completely uneventful (or they’re the nightkill target). Where it gets interesting are the cases where something happens. In universes #16 and #43, Alice is guarding Dave when Carla tries to investigate him. These universes collapse, which is how the guard’s ability prevents investigation. As a bonus, in universe #16, Alice also fought off Bob (scum) beforehand - nightkills happen before investigations. Universe #1 plays out similarly, only with Carla as the guard, Alice as the target, and Bob as the snooping detective. This universe also collapses. Meanwhile, in universes #25 and #32, Bob is guarding Alice when Carla tries to kill her. The universe stays intact in this case, as the detective (Alice in #25, Dave in #32) is off investigating someone else. Critically, in universe #25, Bob saving Alice lets her successfully investigate Carla! Otherwise, Carla would have killed Alice before she could investigate. Universe #19 is similar to universe #25 - Alice guards Dave, Bob tries to nightkill him, Dave is the detective and (since he’s still in one piece) scans Bob. Finally, as a cautionary tale, let’s consider Dave’s turn as guard in Universe #26. Here, Carla tries to kill Alice, who is the detective. Dave is off guarding Carla (whoops) and does not prevent the nightkill. But, it turns out it’s for the best - Alice was planning to investigate Carla, and if she had gotten her scan to go off, she would have run into Dave and the universe would have collapsed. But, because she didn’t, it stays in one piece. The next morning, the situation looks like this: code:code:Alice: quote:You died in 4 universes last night. You were the detective in one, the guard in two, and vanilla town in the last one. At this point, Alice guesses (correctly) that the player with the codeword SPORT on the global table is Carla, since the percentages look the closest. She also concludes that someone other than her tried to nightkill Dave. Because she’s concluded Carla is less scummy, she reasons (correctly) that Bob also tried to kill Dave. From there, she concludes that either Carla or Dave tried to kill her last night, but she doesn’t know who... yet. Bob: quote:You died in 5 universes last night. You were the detective in two, the guard in one, and vanilla town in the last two. Bob now knows that someone guarded Dave last night, but he’s not sure who (it could be Alice or Carla). Extrapolating from his detective results, he guesses that since Alice is scum or dead in his results, Carla guarded Dave. (This is wrong.) Bob’s detective results are poor because, as the detective, he died in two universes and ran into the guard (Carla) in the third (which isn’t listed on his DM because the universe collapsed). Because of this, he doesn’t have an easy way to match his results to the probability table. He goes for it anyway, and guesses that FLOOR is Alice’s codeword, even though that row instead belongs to Dave! Carla: quote:You did not die in any universe last night. Carla knows that no one tried to NK her (probably). She also knows that no one else tried to NK Alice (probably). Instead, she notices Dave’s massive dead percentage in her results and concludes that Alice and Bob both targeted Dave. Matching this up with the probability table, she notices that FLOOR’s dead% jumped up to almost 50%, which is about what you’d expect if 2 players of 4 targeted him. So she concludes (correctly) that FLOOR is Dave. Dave: quote:You died in 9 universes last night. You were the detective in 3, the guard in 4, and vanilla town in the last two. Dave knows he’s in trouble. His living universe count vs dead count is surprisingly low. He didn’t get much useful information, aside from knowing that no one guarded Bob last night. He’s going to guess that Carla was scum the majority of the time, given no one tried to kill her. Day 2 begins. Alice votes Dave, on the grounds that since both she and Bob nightkilled Dave, he has a better chance of flipping scum than anyone else, since his Town% is so low. Carla is on the fence about who to vote for - until Dave accuses her of being scum and votes for her. She immediately votes him back. Bob, at this point, is on the fence about whether to vote for Dave or Alice (remember that he mixed up who was who on the global table), but eventually is convinced to vote for Dave. Dave is voted out, as everyone (except maybe Carla) hopes that he’ll flip scum and bring the game to a close with a town victory. That means that no one is expecting it when he flips as the detective. Most universes collapse, and as of Night 2, only 3 possibilities are left: code:code:Alice, who had SPORT marked down as Carla, now sees that Carla has the highest percentage chance of being scum. So, she guards Bob and hopes he’ll make it. Ironically, she’s the guard only in the one universe where Bob is scum! Bob realizes he’s made a calculation mistake as soon as Dave’s row flips on the probability table. He decides to logic things out from the start. He knows he didn’t kill Alice on night 1, and Dave is the detective so he can’t have killed her either. So Carla must have killed her. So Carla must be scum when he’s not scum. He decides to guard Alice. Then, Bob starts figuring out who he should nightkill. If he nightkills Carla, he’ll probably kill her in the universe where she’s town, so she’ll be guaranteed to be scum thereafter and he’s not sure how that’ll shake out. He decides to also nightkill Alice. Carla, meanwhile, already nightkilled Alice once. The simple choice would be to go after Bob, but she could still ask to nightkill Alice again, though, as Alice isn’t fully dead yet (the guard did fight Carla off in two universes, one of which is still around). If Carla had asked to re-nightkill someone she had already nightkilled, the host’s response would depend on whether that person was alive in a universe where Carla was scum. If at least such one universe existed, the host would accept the nightkill. Otherwise, the host would tell Carla to pick someone else. However, Carla decides not to get clever, and chooses just to kill Bob. code:code:Bob realizes that, since SPORT’s Dead% is still at 0%, he can’t have nightkilled her last night. So, SPORT must be Carla. MINOR is therefore Alice. Carla knows she’s scum in two universes out of three (66%). Since she killed Bob in two universes, he’s one of the two 66% Dead players - either MINOR or CHAIR. But MINOR is Town in their surviving universe, and CHAIR is scum. She reasons: In the universe where she isn’t scum, scum didn’t kill her last night, so one of two things happened instead: Either Alice killed Bob, or Bob killed Alice. Bob is still alive in that universe, so Alice didn’t kill him. So Bob must be scum in that universe. So Bob is CHAIR and Alice is MINOR. At this point, the lid is off the box and everybody knows who is who. Carla and Alice both vote out Bob for the guaranteed scum kill, over his protests. Since Bob is only scum in one universe, all universes but that one collapse, causing Alice to die (because if Bob was scum, then he’d previously nightkilled her). Only Carla remains alive, and she celebrates a town victory. At this point, all five players, thoroughly bewildered by the events of all four games, decide to go play Smash Bros. instead. Quackles fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Nov 16, 2023 |
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2023 06:02
|
|
|
In
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2023 06:06
|
|
|
I would like to play this game in 100% of universes 
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2023 06:34
|
|
|
yay
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2023 07:04
|
|
|
We don't know the starting number of universes?
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2023 07:28
|
|
|
Nevermind it's in the table.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2023 07:29
|
|
|
Johnny Keats posted:We don't know the starting number of universes? It varies based on the number of players and the number of roles. Based on 19 players and 7 non-vanilla roles (3 scum, 1 detective, 1 entangler, 1 follower, 1 guard), I estimate (19!/12!) = 253,955,520 starting universes.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2023 07:37
|
|
|
A new tutorial has been added! Tutorial 1: The Basics showcases the game at its most basic, with only town and scum players.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2023 07:57
|
|
|
 (This only counts as a signup in 50% of pregame universes)
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2023 09:21
|
|
|
Yep yep!
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2023 11:10
|
|
|
Well this is going to be a delightful mess. Does this count as millions of games for my "played games" count, or just one?
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2023 11:22
|
|
|
Quackles posted:It varies based on the number of players and the number of roles. Based on 19 players and 7 non-vanilla roles (3 scum, 1 detective, 1 entangler, 1 follower, 1 guard), I estimate (19!/12!) = 253,955,520 starting universes. I didn't realize the pool of universes would be the exhaustive pool of all possible combinations
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2023 13:56
|
|
|
So we already can calculate the starting percentage table
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2023 13:57
|
|
|
This game will be weird because it seems like in order for town to win, we need to strategically use the vote to collapse universes in town's favor, but also each of us will have like a 25% chance to... want scum to win...? I don't know how wincons work, I think this is just a collaborative game to have town end up winning then we all win
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2023 14:02
|
|
|
This is the coolest setup idea I’ve ever seen. In.Johnny Keats posted:This game will be weird because it seems like in order for town to win, we need to strategically use the vote to collapse universes in town's favor, but also each of us will have like a 25% chance to... want scum to win...? I don't know how wincons work, I think this is just a collaborative game to have town end up winning then we all win Someone will have to flip scum for the town to win and thus they’ll lose.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2023 16:00
|
|
|
Is there an n0? Seems like d1 would be pointless without one to adjust the probabilities.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2023 16:04
|
|
|
wins32767 posted:Is there an n0? Seems like d1 would be pointless without one to adjust the probabilities. NO is masonizer actions.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2023 16:09
|
|
|
didn't understand this when it was discussed in discord, don't understand it now. in! (hoping this doesn't start for at least a couple of days cuz i'll be home again then)
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2023 22:22
|
|
|
This is a vanilla game, right? I didn’t read OP
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2023 22:33
|
|
|
Johnny Keats posted:So we already can calculate the starting percentage table Yep! Johnny Keats posted:This game will be weird because it seems like in order for town to win, we need to strategically use the vote to collapse universes in town's favor, but also each of us will have like a 25% chance to... want scum to win...? I don't know how wincons work, I think this is just a collaborative game to have town end up winning then we all win Some of the tutorials will address this later, but, as a rule of thumb: getting nightkilled, ironically, drives up your chance of being scum (because you didn't die in universes where you're the scum instead). Other things will also cause probabilities to change. So as the game progresses, players' chance to be different roles will greatly differ, and it'll turn into a game of figuring out who on the probability table has that sweet 75% scum chance and going after them. wins32767 posted:Is there an n0? Seems like d1 would be pointless without one to adjust the probabilities. There is a N0, with entanglements (masonizing) only. While it doesn't affect the probabilities directly (and D1 is still jokephase, effectively), it does mean players will be in private contact with one another at the official start of the game. That might have an effect on things.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2023 22:44
|
|
|
Quackles posted:There is a N0, with entanglements (masonizing) only. While it doesn't affect the probabilities directly (and D1 is still jokephase, effectively), it does mean players will be in private contact with one another at the official start of the game. That might have an effect on things. Mathematically everyone will have the same alignment, no? So why hang anyone?
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2023 22:45
|
|
|
wins32767 posted:Mathematically everyone will have the same alignment, no? So why hang anyone? Everybody has the same chance of being different alignments. But there's still scum out there, and it's your job to catch them... or try not to get got. It is officially Uncertain.
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2023 22:47
|
|
|
wins32767 posted:Mathematically everyone will have the same alignment, no? So why hang anyone? Town need to collapse possible universes, which requires day murder. Since you are more likely to be town than scum, especially d1, town should execute Is what I would say if I read the OP
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2023 22:59
|
|
|
absent any actual preset alignments, the obvious d1 choice will be to execute the most boring lurker (unless they're your masonbud), so this game will probably have unintended(?) anti-lurker properties by default cuz in a normal game, the loudest most-posting-est player might post themselves into an early grave by convincing everyone they're scum, but in this game, executing that player is literally only executing content
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2023 23:26
|
|
|
I have no idea what this is going to turn out like but I’m very intrigued. (This is NOT a signup, in any universe.)
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2023 23:35
|
|
|
Zoya posted:absent any actual preset alignments, the obvious d1 choice will be to execute the most boring lurker (unless they're your masonbud), so this game will probably have unintended(?) anti-lurker properties by default It’s true Do NOT quote this and accuse me of being boring as you vote me
|
|
#
?
Nov 13, 2023 23:39
|
|
|
Your Personal Muse posted:It’s true Okay, I won't. I will, and you can't stop me. 〉Okay, I won't. (Lie)
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2023 00:09
|
|
|
A new tutorial has been added! Tutorial 2: Multiple Scum shows how only one scum player has the nightkill at a time, as well as what happens when they die.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2023 00:33
|
|
|
Will the 19-players starting percent for each player be code:
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2023 01:20
|
|
|
Johnny Keats posted:Will the 19-players starting percent for each player be Close. The entangler is not accounted in Power% - only the detective, follower, and guard are. So you can expect something like: code:EDIT: fixed math, Entangler is not counted in Town% either though they win with town Quackles fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Nov 14, 2023 |
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2023 02:06
|
|
|
The entangler is still included in Town%?
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2023 02:36
|
|
|
No, actually. Fixed my math. During the actual game I've got a computer program to do this.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2023 02:59
|
|
|
Zoya posted:Okay, I won't. [Success] Ok, great. At least Zoya is honorable.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2023 03:23
|
|
|
I worked like to play and not play
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2023 03:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 19, 2024 03:18 |
|
|
Your Personal Muse posted:Town need to collapse possible universes, which requires day murder. Since you are more likely to be town than scum, especially d1, town should execute Scum need to as well. The only way anyone wins is to collapse down to 1. My point is that there is that everyone will literally have the same probabilities on d1 so there won’t really be alignment driven hints to sus out. It’s just a popularity contest at that point.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2023 13:15
|
|