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Main Paineframe posted:"Only" got 7 years in jail? For a 14-year-old, that's half their lives up to that point. Moreover, it's a particularly important 7 years in their education and socialization. They're spending their entire teenage years in prison, and getting out at age 21 with no money, no skills, no way to make a living, and no social connections aside from their families, their middle school classmates, and their fellow inmates. They'll be thoroughly unprepared for living on their own, and while most of their age group was learning how to live independently and make independent life decisions, they spent those years in the highly regimented prison life. Educationally, they'll have a prison GED and probably not much more. Well, maybe they should have thought of that before they beat someone half to death. After all, 14 year olds are well known for their abilities to think things through, which is why there's no point in having a separate juvenile system of justice... Now, there's a difference between stupid teenage poo poo and psychopathy that these attempted murderers displayed. The former can presumably be handled through a separate juvenile system, but for the latter, I can't see a solution beyond locking them up sooner rather than later. The real controversy, I think, is a situation such as those five kids in Michigan who were throwing cinder blocks off an overpass and got someone killed. That is stupid teenage poo poo that managed to get someone killed, and they did get tried as adults, incorrectly in my opinion, but felony murder is a different matter to joyriding in Kias. Let the punishment fit the criminal as well as the crime.
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Nov 27, 2023 04:07
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Main Paineframe posted:I'm honestly not sure whether you're being sarcastic here. The first part seems sarcastic, but the second part seems serious. Correct on the sarcasm thing, but the concern about rehabilitation goes beyond juvenile prisons. I don't know if you were around for the excellent prison threads in Laissez Faire, https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3233450 (definitely worth getting archives for), but the OP is a prison reform advocate. But even he admitted that quote:I know plenty of men who are over age 45 who have been behind bars for more than 20 years. They are not the same person- but almost to a man, that which made them the person that committed the offense has not changed. The point of a proper juvenile justice system and a rehabilitative adult justice system is to separate out the ones who can be rehabilitated from the ones who can't (and to stop torturing the ones who can't as well). But I submit that some people cannot be fixed, even if we reform the system so as not to deliberately break the ones who can be.
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Nov 28, 2023 23:56
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PT6A posted:Victims have the right to be made whole in cases where it's possible, and the Kia thieves or whatever can do that. Get a job and 50% of your paycheque goes to restitution. That'll teach a better lesson than prison will. What good will prison do? It's a charming idea, and fortunately not forbidden by the 13th amendment, but who's going to hire a 15 year old car thief? And if the state is going to make up work for them to do, why not just have the state pay restitution directly?
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Nov 29, 2023 06:07
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:How do you feel about the 17 year olds who stole our car and got taken home to their parents, out of curiousity? Obviously they should be locked in a Kia factory until they've built you a new car. BougieBitch posted:I don't see any reason why the symbolic "working to pay it off" of community service doesn't serve the same function, with insurance or the state making the victim whole. The state doesn't need to "make up work", a soup kitchen or animal rescue or whatever can find something for a 15-year-old to do. A direct "wage garnishment" sort of situation could also work theoretically, but in practice I think it just would take too long for the full amount to be paid off to be practical for the victim - you'd still need the state to pay the amount initially or else you could easily be waiting a year or longer to get your car back as a victim But if the restitution comes from the state, and the state only gets round to collecting the money from the criminal years later, if at all, there would be the same level of taxpayer resentment as there presently is over giving criminals cable TV, educational programs, and food and water. Community service, although it's better than jail, doesn't throw off any revenue so it can't make up any restitution (if it was economically valuable it would either be done by the private sector or by the government), and I think part of the reason for its popularity is the assurance it offers the victims that the criminal is doing something unpleasant either way. Same with those weird "boot camps" for troubled teens that used to be popular and maybe still are, but philosophically we want to develop genuine morality in our teenagers, which goes beyond the principle of reward and punishment.
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Nov 30, 2023 01:42
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