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Zoeb posted:Yeah that is what I am thinking too. I want our approach to crime to be proactive but car theft is unthinkable. Like you said, it ruins people's lives. I saw a story where some teenage girls tried to steal an uber driver's car, murdered him, and the camera footage showed one of the girls, before fleeing the scene where they murdered this grandpa say "oh no, my phone!" Their initial defense was that it was the uber driver's fault that they murdered him because he didn't just let them go with his car, the only thing he had to make a living with. It's heartless, soulless, behavior and that man's family deserves more justice than being locked up until they are 21. Murder and carjacking are not kid stuff. Graffiti is kid stuff. Shoplifting is kid stuff. Fistfights are kid stuff. (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/teens-get-maximum-sentence-death-uber-eats-driver-n1273276) im going to go out on a limb and say that 'car theft' and 'carjacking + murder' are different categories any given fistfight has a (substantially) higher chance of long-term injury or death than stealing an unattended, parked kia
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Nov 26, 2023 23:39
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well you see i think you start with a humane and not psychotic perspective which eliminates two of your options, and then to avoid paying literally millions of dollars to keep someone in jail forever, you maybe try to get them to be a functioning member of society again
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Nov 28, 2023 07:23
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A Buttery Pastry posted:It's not a given at all that you start from what you define as a humane and non-psychotic perspective. Someone might argue that rehabilitative justice is inhumane towards the victims, robbing them of dignity by treating the offender with far more kindness than they ever showed their victims. The thread is supposed to be about balancing rights, and people's perception of those rights are going to differ, often quite a lot. oh. i dont care about what those people argue. i would discount those people and disengage with the conversation, because they do not share my values and are not worth my time. i'd probably go so far as to insult these hypothetical people for being bad people
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Nov 29, 2023 03:44
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this is tangentially related, but is there good evidence out there pointing one way or another to the median age where people establish their understanding of right and wrong? i am sympathetic to the idea that if we could convincingly say that someone knows their actions are wrong and understands the consequences that we could morally punish a 17 year old similarly to an 18 year old, but i'm also sympathetic to the idea that the age is higher than 18. obviously there needs to be a convenient bar that is not dynamic (it wouldnt really be fair to hold an unusually emotionally mature 13 year old to the same standard as most 18 year olds), but is 18 actually the correct number or is it just the convenient one
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Nov 29, 2023 23:12
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