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Cornwind Evil posted:I really recommend the Last Podcast On the Left series on Aum. Or...any of their series on cults, really. better yet, read Underground and/or Destroying the World to Save It. The first is first-hand accounts of the sarin gas attack, the latter is a deep dive on aum
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Nov 26, 2023 02:26
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It baffles me how Scientology is still kicking. They have a building not terribly far from my house, there is a TV in the window that plays propaganda 24/7, speakers mounted outside. Never seen anyone go in or out, its bizarre.
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Nov 26, 2023 02:29
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How about Rod of Iron, the spinoff of Moonies/the Unification Church started by Moon's son in Pennsylvania. They worship the AR-15 as religious iconography and an instrument of God's will, and the leader, Hyung Jin Moon, wears a crown of bullets. They're encouraged to bring their AR-15s to church services so the guns can be blessed. Also they participated in Jan 6th lol
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Nov 26, 2023 02:47
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deep dish peat moss posted:How about Rod of Iron, the spinoff of Moonies/the Unification Church started by Moon's son in Pennsylvania. thosew guys are a real doozy
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Nov 26, 2023 02:48
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My friend in the Jehovah's Witnesses wasn't allowed to celebrate his birthdays and that made me sad.
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Nov 26, 2023 02:56
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Animal-Mother posted:My friend in the Jehovah's Witnesses wasn't allowed to celebrate his birthdays and that made me sad. I remember running into a JW kid at a summer camp as a child, he said it was his birthday and I wished him happy birthday/asked what he asked for - he just got annoyed with me. He also played Pokemon on his Gameboy the entire lunch period, and knowing what I know now about JWs, it seems like they would take issue with Pokemon.
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Nov 26, 2023 03:25
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Would you count Fraternities as cults? I infiltrated several and learned their secret handshake and other stuff.
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Nov 26, 2023 04:25
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redshirt posted:Would you count Fraternities as cults? I infiltrated several and learned their secret handshake and other stuff. What kind of behavior did they consider off-limits?
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Nov 26, 2023 06:29
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Helpimscared posted:I remember running into a JW kid at a summer camp as a child, he said it was his birthday and I wished him happy birthday/asked what he asked for - he just got annoyed with me. He also played Pokemon on his Gameboy the entire lunch period, and knowing what I know now about JWs, it seems like they would take issue with Pokemon. Pokémon would be what they call a ‘conscious matter.’ I’m actually more surprised they sent the kid to a summer camp.
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Nov 26, 2023 06:37
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There was a JW girl in my fourth grade class who stole lunch money from several kids, myself included. She was mean to everyone but I still felt bad since she had to leave whenever we had celebrations in class. I remember my mind being blown when someone explained the situation to me, that someone believes a God that won’t let you celebrate birthdays or holidays. When I moved schools, there was another JW girl, she was pretty nice. I remember overhearing that she tried to stay for some sort of class party and the teacher knew she wasn’t supposed to, as her parents sent a note informing them. The teacher was upset she had to do the dirty work of enforcing a needlessly cruel belief that was not her own onto a kid who wanted to have fun with her friends, like every other kid.
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Nov 26, 2023 12:35
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Cornwind Evil posted:I really recommend the Last Podcast On the Left series on Aum. Or...any of their series on cults, really. Yeah just not a good listen if you're not cool with sexual assault and people who cover it up. gently caress those guys and the guys wife who fired someone for...not being okay with it.
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Nov 26, 2023 13:59
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iwentdoodie posted:Yeah just not a good listen if you're not cool with sexual assault and people who cover it up. gently caress those guys and the guys wife who fired someone for...not being okay with it. Just read up on this because I'm not up on TC podcasts or the like, and loving yikes. Are true crime podcasters cult leaders?
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Nov 26, 2023 14:47
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Xlorp posted:What kind of behavior did they consider off-limits? I'd guess the only thing would be revealing Frat secrets. Like the secret skeleton.
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Nov 26, 2023 14:51
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iwentdoodie posted:Yeah just not a good listen if you're not cool with sexual assault and people who cover it up. gently caress those guys and the guys wife who fired someone for...not being okay with it. Also that, yeah. Sorry, one forgets that others can be triggered.
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Nov 26, 2023 14:54
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I think Jehovah's Witnesses count as a cult. On the surface they just seem like one of the weirder christian sects out there, but once you get into stuff like "you're forbidden to hang around with non-JWs, and if a family member isn't a JW and isn't willing to convert, you should shun them. And also shun everyone who used to be one of us but isn't anymore" poo poo, we're in cult territory, IMO. I spent my youth as a JW after my mum got way into them when we were kids. I think I believed at some point, and was baptized when I was in my teens. I kinda drifted away over time but I still remember that the straw that broke the camel's back for me was that among the many other things JWs are forbidden to do, even looking at other religions' teachings is one of them. I was always an inquisitive little poo poo (and wasn't surprised to hear I was probably on the spectrum much later), and brought up the subject of looking at what other, false, religions had to say about things. The elders in my congregation absolutely forbid it. I tried to argue that if we were really the one true faith, then looking at others' versions should just prove that, right? Nope. And then I started wondering what they were covering up, and turns out that was "a lot of the poo poo JWs say is unique to them really isn't, because a lot of other religions do most of it". I guess I wasn't the only one wondering about that, because later it was revised to "oh many of the fake religions have SOME of the traits of the true faith, because Satan wants to confuse us, but only we have ALL of the traits". Speaking of revisions, they do that a lot. They claim that they get their teachings directly from Jehovah through the elders at the world headquarters, who are the only ones who can interpret the bible and translate its cryptic messages to us mortals, but they seem to get it loving wrong as poo poo surprisingly often! Throughout the 1900s, they proclaimed that the end of the world (well, not the end of the world, but Armageddon, which might as well be) was right around the corner. They gave specific dates. Predictably, the good brothers and sisters decided that since they weren't going to be around to pay it back, they might as well take big loans and live it up before the current system crashes, and when that didn't happen, a lot of people were financially ruined. And then it kept happening, and happening, and happening. And then towards the end of the 1990s, they said that the elders had received new insight and now understood that only Jehovah knows the actual date but it's coming soon! And then they memory holed all the times they had predicted a date and bringing it up is forbidden. But even that is just peanuts compared to the years of sexual abuse and paedophilia that have gone on behind the scenes. JWs say that anyone who has "grievances" with others, like loving getting raped, shouldn't go to the cops. They should bring it up with their elders -- many of whom were often the abusers -- and let the organization handle it. Anyone going to the cops was booted out and shunned, which meant that people who had lived all their lives as JWs and only had social contacts with other JWs suddenly lost all their social support nets and contacts, if they wanted to try to get justice for the horrible things that were done to them. loving hell, they really should be outlawed alongside Scientologists. But anyway, I was one of them for ~15 years. Ask me anything if you want. E: Animal-Mother posted:My friend in the Jehovah's Witnesses wasn't allowed to celebrate his birthdays and that made me sad. Yeah, among many other things that are forbidden to JWs, they don't celebrate birthdays. I don't remember why anymore. No christmas either. The only celebration they recognize is their version of passover, where you gather at the kingdom hall to hear speeches and if there are people who are among the 144 000 who will go to heaven with god and jesus when armageddon hits (you had to be alive to see World War I, because apparently that was when the "end times" began. They have since corrected that teaching as well, since armageddon was supposed to come before those who witnesses WWI had died, and well...) they got to have a drink of wine and eat a pretzel while everyone else watches. I gotta say it didn't make up for no christmases or birthdays. Shaman Tank Spec fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Nov 26, 2023 |
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Nov 26, 2023 15:00
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If you’re having trouble determining whether a specific organisation is a cult, this criteria is a decent place to start https://freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model/
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Nov 26, 2023 15:08
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Oh, they also believe that the bible is 100% literal. I remember getting into Trouble as a kid when I once asked how Noah managed to get animals that only live in arctic regions into his ark that was built somewhere in the Middle-East, and how he managed to fit the millions of species that exist around the world into a wooden ship. They didn't even try to answer and instead I was given a very stern lecture and had to do extra bible study with one of the elders. E: Minotaurus Rex posted:If you’re having trouble determining whether a specific organisation is a cult, this criteria is a decent place to start https://freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model/ Yeah, JWs definitely fit the bill then. 6/23 for B, 5/6 (maybe even 6/6) for I, 6/11 for T, 7/8 for E. Shaman Tank Spec fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Nov 26, 2023 |
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Nov 26, 2023 15:09
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https://freedomofmind.com/resource-links/podcast/ Good podcast about cults too on the same website, they have stuff about the Jehovah’s Witnesses on there. The associated book Combating Cult Mind Control is a really useful resource for unfucking your mind from cult manipulation as well.. It’s a bigger social problem than most people think Minotaurus Rex fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Nov 26, 2023 |
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Nov 26, 2023 15:15
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You're definition of cult is too broad to go by. By your definition all 12 step programs are cults and so are the Shriners.
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Nov 26, 2023 15:30
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I grew up in that Christian homeschooling cult that the Duggars popularized, ATI. It's pretty dumb and bad imo.
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Nov 26, 2023 15:36
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All religion is a cult. Some are just nice. Abandon faith and embrace existence.
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Nov 26, 2023 15:37
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Hollismason posted:You're definition of cult is too broad to go by. By your definition all 12 step programs are cults and so are the Shriners. I would definitely call AA a cult adjacent organization.
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Nov 26, 2023 15:38
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iwentdoodie posted:I would definitely call AA a cult adjacent organization.
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Nov 26, 2023 15:39
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iwentdoodie posted:I would definitely call AA a cult adjacent organization. Eh
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Nov 26, 2023 15:40
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iwentdoodie posted:I would definitely call AA a cult adjacent organization. People should quit drinking the old fashioned way: go on ozempic so alcohol will make them puke and then start sucking on a hamilton starship vape every 20 minutes.
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Nov 26, 2023 15:58
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Helpimscared posted:It baffles me how Scientology is still kicking. They have a building not terribly far from my house, there is a TV in the window that plays propaganda 24/7, speakers mounted outside. Never seen anyone go in or out, its bizarre. I grew up in scientology. My Mom, a former actress, is out now; she got out when I was a teenager. My Dad was never in but was tolerant in the 80s and early 90s because i You'd be shocked at how effective the brainwashing was, and still is, because they are effective at cloistering everyone away from each other. Both inside and out. I don't enjoy talking about it much. I have nothing but PTSD and an eating disorder to show for it. Sick fuckers still send letters, people, etc., after my mom too. My parents live off grid in the middle of nowhere and still have poo poo show up. And yeah. Step programs are cult-adjacent with a very low success ratio. Most "treatment programs" that are in any way faith-based could go under the umbrella. Personal beliefs are fine. I don't have any truck with organized religion though.
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Nov 26, 2023 16:04
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Randy Travesty posted:Most "treatment programs" that are in any way faith-based could go under the umbrella. This has somehow dredged up a bunch of memories that I was forced into christian "counseling"/"therapy" all it did was make me try to harm myself more. Amazingly, once I got away from my "family" and religion, almost all my problems magically went away. Almost.
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Nov 26, 2023 16:13
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AA is kind of a step above other cults because there's no specific deity you need to worship, you have to find "your god" but that can be yourself, or movies, or art or whatever. It's just about finding one thing in your life and putting a lot of importance on it, and using it as a reason not to relapse. There might be some hella culty AA groups that make you worship a specific god though.
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Nov 26, 2023 16:17
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deep dish peat moss posted:AA is kind of a step above other cults because there's no specific deity you need to worship, you have to find "your god" but that can be yourself, or movies, or art or whatever. It's just about finding one thing in your life and putting a lot of importance on it, and using it as a reason not to relapse. One could argue that using some cult like techniques might be helpful in dealing with addiction or other issues. Within reason of course.
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Nov 26, 2023 16:18
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Grey Cat posted:This has somehow dredged up a bunch of memories that I was forced into christian "counseling"/"therapy" all it did was make me try to harm myself more. Hell yeah brother. Glad to hear it.
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Nov 26, 2023 16:19
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deep dish peat moss posted:AA is kind of a step above other cults because there's no specific deity you need to worship, you have to find "your god" but that can be yourself, or movies, or art or whatever. It's just about finding one thing in your life and putting a lot of importance on it, and using it as a reason not to relapse. I've went to a few meetings and the overwhelming push of God and religion and church was present in all of them. The 12 steps themselves are Christian based, and the group itself is an offshoot of a Christian revivalist movement. It teaches that you're powerless and only thru something outside can you possibly change, and what do you know they have the cure.
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Nov 26, 2023 16:47
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Sounds like the amount of culty really depends on the particular Alcoholics Anonymous group. Especially the people who run it, if they're hella fundy or not? Hoping to hear more experiences.
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Nov 26, 2023 17:15
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Grew up in the highly-evangelical-end-of-worlder-types pipeline, eventually shifted to my dad running a nondenominational church out of our house. Which is super loving common, and there are some denominations forming within that/some widely accepted guidelines and the like. I think Mars church? does one 'curriculum' that's fairly widely accepted, for example. This was, like, 20-30+ years ago. poo poo was weird as gently caress, but even within the context of the congregation my parents were fairly rational and level-headed for being town level cult leaders. Wasn't allowed to basically watch any movies in class growing up because, y'know, everything was sinful or an affront to god; also had to burn my harry potter (lol) and pokemon collections before a move on our nomad-for-jesus adventure once, because they were demonic you see. Other folks though, jesus, they moved out to the boonies and poo poo, started homesteads by going into crippling debt with weirdo christian ponzi scheme land deals and health insurance communal funds and the like, homeschooled (read: ignored) their kids, changed all their names to weirdo 'biblical' (like... a weirdo Hebrew-derived Kayleighfication or something, hard to explain but you're probably familiar) names. I really can't stress just how common this poo poo is and how loving far the crazy ideas of some unhinged lunatic going through andropause can spread these days thanks to social media and the continuing erosion of our entire culture's mental health as capitalism and religion run an eiffel tower on our collective consciousness but, y'know. Sentence structure. If I had to sum up the common beliefs of most of the 'churches' I ever interfaced with it'd be: - The end times are coming/here, we are preparing the way for god's return and that means saving as many people as possible - or at least being as loud as possible to prove to god we at least Tried to Save Them All - The church - be it the catholic church, the greater denominational power structures, or whatever have you - is well meaning but corrupted by humans and have fallen away from the ideals presented in the new testament churches. That's really it. The rest of the beliefs can be whatever the gently caress the leader or congregation want. There's some weird teaching somewhere in... Revelations? I believe that talks about how the old time churches will come back in the end times and that's basically how the seed gets planted in these dorks' heads. Grey Cat posted:[...] Fuckin' word. Transitioning at the start of 2016 definitely served as the final sack tap I needed to finish my deconstruction in whole and my life's never been better 
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Nov 26, 2023 17:25
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Nyan Bread posted:Sounds like the amount of culty really depends on the particular Alcoholics Anonymous group. Especially the people who run it, if they're hella fundy or not? Hoping to hear more experiences. Every AA group like individual meetings makes their own rules based on group conscious usually however sometimes there are AA meetings where just like one guy runs the meeting and doesn't listen to anyone. There's no like AA structure beyond like service offices that basically organize a listing of meetings in the area and do outreach programs. Its why you can have groups that are like "We're doing the Lords Prayer at the end of our meeting" and groups that are like "We do the Serenity Prayer at a our meeting". Its basically a direct democracy organization. There's no AA leader and there's no one to say "meetings have to be run like this". Meetings generally are run by the members who vote on how the meeting is going to be run. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Nov 26, 2023 |
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Nov 26, 2023 17:26
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https://orangepapers.eth.limo/ Great website about AA’s cult credentials. Minotaurus Rex fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Nov 26, 2023 |
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Nov 26, 2023 17:42
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Minotaurus Rex posted:https://orangepapers.eth.limo/ LMAO at that website goddamn.
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Nov 26, 2023 17:45
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Mudlark posted:Fuckin' word. Transitioning at the start of 2016 definitely served as the final sack tap I needed to finish my deconstruction in whole and my life's never been better 
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Nov 26, 2023 17:45
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It’s got some helpful info for people trying to leave.. it’s obviously not for people who like it. AA can really gently caress you up if you’re vulnerable to it
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Nov 26, 2023 17:47
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Minotaurus Rex posted:It’s got some helpful info for people trying to leave.. it’s obviously not for people who like it. AA can really gently caress you up if you’re vulnerable to it Worse than alcoholism?
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Nov 26, 2023 17:48
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redshirt posted:Worse than alcoholism? Yeah.. it makes a lot of people’s drinking much worse
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Nov 26, 2023 17:50
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