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it's my favorite TCG-related topic other than stupid art - the cards that absolutely everyone in the playerbase seemed to hate, and the ones which borderline cause fights if you play them at real life events. or the ones you play because you're a sadist, and you love seeing your opponent fuming. i mostly play YGO online and sometimes in person, and "the one card that's ruining the entire format" is always one of the most popular topics of discussion, along with whether combo players or trap/stun players are more toxic for the game.  despite the simple effect, this might be the single strongest YGO card ever printed. if you play MTG, this card is like - imagine if Blood Moon was legal in Modern in Japan, but illegal in Modern in the US. it is legal in the online client, is run in about 90-95% of decks at the higher ladder ranks, and is the number one thing American players complain about, sometimes to the point of racism. it's a near mandatory three-of in YGO formats where the card is legal, and a lot of differences in format deckbuilding revolve around how much you need to run or counter this specific card.  this was originally ran in decks like Sky Striker which could function well with a very small board. this was annoying enough, but people realized that a pure stall/deck-out or stall/burn strategy was the best way to play this, and it caused an absolute ton of hatred. by some accounts, some Japanese card shops banned the card before Konami did, because of how often the card caused games to go past the time limit.  i think most card games realize this nowadays, but it's rarely a good thing when one of the best cards in a format is a tournament-exclusive prize card that peaked at well over $1000 on the secondary market. some european players recall it reaching about 2000 EUR. this was in a format dominated by Dark Armed Dragon which itself was something like a $300 card at the time. a lot of people recall falling out of YGO at that time due to being completely priced out of the game. there's a very good reason that prize cards nowadays are almost always intentionally bad, or at the very least, get reprinted quickly.
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Dec 3, 2023 17:17
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Dec 3, 2023 17:20
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Dec 3, 2023 17:38
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 I will say outright that I am the type of magic guy who only plays commander, so everything I say should be viewed through that lens. I despise this card. I think that from top to bottom it is one of the worst designed pieces of poo poo that Wizards has ever released. It has a back side but that doesn't even matter because nobody who picks up this card and decides to run it as a commander is going to use the back side of it. If you know Commander you already know what this card does, but effectively what it says is that you build the deck in such a way that everyone will have to sacrifice everything they commit to the board, or, if they don't commit it to the board, force them to discard it so that they won't be able to have a hand to play, and then you get to take everything onto your own board. So everyone ends up handing their entire deck over to you while you don't get to do anything. The result is that the Tergrid player will inevitably get hated out of the game early, or get Tergrid removed enough that they cannot replay her. But the rest of the deck is still built around making you sac or discard, so even if Tergrid is dealt with, the person playing the deck hasn't got much else to do but sit there and make everyone else miserable. This deck makes every single game unpleasant before it even starts. I think people have kind of figured her out now because I don't see her half as much as I used to, but I really hate commanders like this one that force the entire table to play around them by virtue of the play style that is baked into the card, where oftentimes the entire table has to either archenemy the person playing it or the game just grinds out because the person doing all the stealing can't manage to turn it into a definitive win, which happens frequently with Tergrid. There are similar commanders like Kaalia of the Vast who tend to draw similar ire, but in Kaalia's case she tends to either win or lose decisively and quickly.
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Dec 3, 2023 17:47
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this one came out in 2017 (as a prize card, though it was reprinted), but wasn't really relevant until 2023 when a deck called Kashtira (the best deck in the format for a few months) was able to use it consistently.  if you don't want to read the wall of text, the important effect is that this card can banish one card from your extra deck face-down (face-down banished cards are nearly impossible to get back in the game). this is annoying enough, but the biggest problem is that extra decks are frequently used as toolboxes where you run a lot of one-ofs for specific situations, such as easy-to-summon monsters which can pop spells, pop monsters, or stall out for a turn. anyway the problem with this is that the best way to deal with this effect is to run two or three copies of your most important extra-deck monsters. now imagine what happens to the price of extra-deck staples when the entire competitive playerbase realizes they need to purchase additional copies of extra-deck cards.  this is the price of AA-Zeus, which was an extra-deck staple. see if you can spot when Diablosis was finally banned. really Kashtira was an insane deck. it was like they shoved every single gameplay mechanic people hate into a single deck as an experiment, just to see if they'd somehow cancel each other out and make the deck fun.
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Dec 3, 2023 17:58
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This is my favorite toxic card, though honestly all the classic Ravnica art variants are good:
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Dec 3, 2023 18:40
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Nuns with Guns posted:This is my favorite toxic card, though honestly all the classic Ravnica art variants are good: this is also very toxic 
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Dec 3, 2023 19:26
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this one, btw, got complained about so much that when a pure mine stall deck won a major tournament, it ended up trending on Twitter and an MTG designer actually chimed in 
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Dec 3, 2023 19:30
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Thank you for this thread, I love mechanical deep dives in games I don't play. Wasn't Mystic Mine especially stupid in the mobile version of Yugioh (which uses a simplified adjusted version of the rules)? I remember someone I know trolling with that.
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Dec 3, 2023 19:37
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this is possibly an urban legend but it's good enough that nobody cares if it's true or not quote:Offer your opponent a handshake. If they accept your handshake, each player's Life Points become half the combined Life Points of both players. If you have "Unity" in your hand and show it to your opponent, they must accept the handshake. the legend was that people would attempt to get their opponent DQed for refusing the handshake by doing gross poo poo with their hands, and playing this card with the "they must accept the handshake" effect live, and that judges ended up ruling that you only had to verbally accept the handshake rather than shake someone's hands after they'd been scratching their balls. there's no real source for this and the official rulings don't include this "rule", but it's ended up being one of those bits of lore everyone knows it also resulted in this hilarious screenshot 
Feels Villeneuve has a new favorite as of 19:56 on Dec 3, 2023 |
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Dec 3, 2023 19:54
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How do you determine random enemies in whatever that is? Is it online I guess
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Dec 3, 2023 20:55
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Milo and POTUS posted:How do you determine random enemies in whatever that is? Is it online I guess it's a joke, that's a Slay the Spire card (roguelike deckbuilder)
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Dec 3, 2023 21:05
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Check out this sweet new Magic deck https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OkZHoNpJ1E&t=1471s turn 3 btw
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Dec 3, 2023 21:21
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 this unassuming fucker will end your whole career https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnTmXiokbzk Kild has a new favorite as of 21:27 on Dec 3, 2023 |
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Dec 3, 2023 21:25
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Back in the day there was a whole class of cards that you'd only build a deck around if you were a real arsehole: land destruction.     And that's just a small sample of what was available. You really could build an entire deck of "gently caress you, you don't get to play". You think counterspells are annoying? At least those are 1:1 and you can sneak stuff out when your opponent is tapped out or has already used their available counters. Land destruction says "you don't get to play anything now or ever". But here's a more recent irritation:  quote:Phyrexian Obliterator {B}{B}{B}{B}  Every colour has annoying cards and strategies, but when your opponent plays an island you just know they're going to take ten loving minutes for each of their turns. Win or lose, you're going to have a bad time because you're going to spend so long waiting for your opponent to draw cards, discard cards, rearrange their library, read all their own loving cards because they somehow don't remember what any of them do, draw more cards, shuffle, carefully examine the top cards of their library and put them back in the exact same order, draw a card, discard a card... then untap and start their loving turn. 
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Dec 4, 2023 06:38
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Dec 4, 2023 06:57
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I don't really understand Yu Gi Oh cards. The text is so tiny. They must be aggravating to use, right? Or is it kind of assumed you'll have everything memorised.
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Dec 4, 2023 08:29
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The Wicked ZOGA posted:Check out this sweet new Magic deck Kild posted:
It definitely looks like something is happening here, but as a guy who has never played these games and doesn't know what to look out for, I have absolutely no idea what is going on. Does anyone feel kind enough to break this down so an absolute idiot could understand?
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Dec 4, 2023 13:15
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Flint_Paper posted:It definitely looks like something is happening here, but as a guy who has never played these games and doesn't know what to look out for, I have absolutely no idea what is going on. I can explain the Magic one. They printed a creature in the most recent set called Geological Appraiser that costs 4 mana, and when it enters the battlefield you flip cards from the top of your deck until you hit something that costs 3 or less, then cast it for free. There are only two cards in the deck that cost 3 or less, Eldritch Evolution and Glasspool Mimic. All the rest are more expensive, but many of them have an alternative ability or mode they can be used for for cheaper to get around the restriction. Eldritch Evolution lets you sacrifice Appraiser to get a 6 mana creature out of your deck, and there's another bigger version of Appraiser that lets you keep going. Glasspool Mimic copies Appraiser and you do the same. Eventually once you have a big enough board to kill your opponent in one shot, you grab a creature that gives everything Haste instead and swing for the win.
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Dec 4, 2023 13:35
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I think that makes sense, thank you! I find this kind of stuff interesting in the way that people breaking systems is always interesting, but to me it's a bit like watching that perfect parry Street Fighter video - without someone telling me what I'm looking at, I just enjoy the bright colours. So thanks!
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Dec 4, 2023 14:27
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One of my favorite archetypes in MTG is suicide black. It's a deck that uses dark ritual and other fast mana sources to play creatures or make your opponent discard. Anyways the best games were the ones where you hit your opponent with a turn 1 Hymn to Tourach and got them to discard their only lands.    
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Dec 4, 2023 16:06
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AnimeIsTrash posted:One of my favorite archetypes in MTG is suicide black. It's a deck that uses dark ritual and other fast mana sources to play creatures or make your opponent discard. Hypnotic Specter was also a terror. I hated this drat thing.  Better have a bolt turn 1, otherwise you're hosed.
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Dec 4, 2023 16:54
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hand-rips FTL
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Dec 4, 2023 17:00
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Welp as everyone expected Geological Appraiser just got banned. gg
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Dec 4, 2023 17:27
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 Maaaan, when this guy dropped in Worldwake, the Friday Night Magic scene turned into blue white hell. Worldwake was an underwhelming set overall at the time, but people at my local scene would dump hundreds into trying to pull Mind Sculptor from boxes. He had interactions with other cards, sure, but his default effects were so, so annoying. You build him up by top decking for an opponent for 5 turns. You can take a break to either draw one, top deck 2 of your cards. You can take a -1 to send a creature back to your opponent’s hand. If you manage to stall to 5+ turns and hit 12 tokens, lol! Your opponent’s hand is now their entire library! He wasn’t really ban worthy, but he sure mind sculpted the scene for a while. There was a few months of decks either being UW Jace or counter UW Jace. It’s my understanding that Modern and beyond has plenty of things to deal with him. He stuck with me, because that was the only era that I was actively playing MTG in person.
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Dec 4, 2023 21:44
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   Use Hapless Researcher to toss the Eldrazi demigod from your hand into the graveyard then pull it onto the field with Exhume. Not the easiest thing to pull off reliably but generally game ending when it worked and could be done as early as turn 2. Added a few of these in the deck as well to deal with any attempts at removal.  Another variant:    Infect was strong in general, haven't kept up on Magic so I don't know if they kept with it. MtG has tons of ways to stay alive but instantly losing the game if you get 10 poison counters was a good way to get around most of them and the decks played more consistently than the "works or doesn't" combos above.   Put these guys out early depending on if you're going black or blue and then buff them up on attack for an instant win.
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Dec 5, 2023 05:35
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 The old classic from way back in Arabian Nights. Very quickly banned in every format, not because it was powerful, but just because it was annoying and wasted everyone's time. Supposedly, it's Richard Garfield's favorite card. And I can understand why - it's totally unique, it's a perfect mix of flavor and effect, it's just that its main effect is to make games twice as long. And look at that smug look on her face as she prepares to start another subgame...
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Dec 5, 2023 06:02
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Tiggum posted:But here's a more recent irritation: Oh yeah paired with a cheap green instant to make an opponent’s creature fight was ridiculous as it could easily wipe out their lands. And for 4 mana casting cost too, c’mon. Although haven’t seen much of it in historic brawl. AnimeIsTrash posted:One of my favorite archetypes in MTG is suicide black. It's a deck that uses dark ritual and other fast mana sources to play creatures or make your opponent discard. Heck yeah Fallen Empires. So many cards asking you to track the tides for minor benefits & also Goblin Grenades being ridiculous.
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Dec 5, 2023 16:16
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pyf graveyard hate this isn't exactly toxic, but the way this card is written does what's called a "lingering effect" where the response window is now-or-never. once it goes off without a response, there's no way to directly respond to it*- that effect is sticking around for two turns no matter what, and is an instant scoop for more than one competitive deck it isn't even a hate card for graveyard decks specifically, since a lot of decks have cards which have "send this card to the GY" as an activation cost, and you can't activate those cards under Shifter *you can respond later with a card effect that specifically prevents cards from being banished, but that's different than negating the card effect directly Feels Villeneuve has a new favorite as of 16:25 on Dec 5, 2023 |
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Dec 5, 2023 16:22
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Tegrid is so bad, I can't wait for the day my friends decide to never run her again. Even if the deck is Tegrid and 99 Swamps, the deck is still annoying to be around. There are so many sacrifice effects and costs that the Tegrid player is going to get cards they didn't even intend to. The saltiest card of all time. The only other competitor is Winter Orb, which does the same thing but only for lands and doesn't require an upkeep cost. In Magic, most cards get tapped when you use them. Your turn begins with an untap step, where you untap all your cards for use again. Stasis says you only get to use each card once. The flow of a game of Magic is built with the idea that players will play a new land almost every turn, being able to use more mana to play more/bigger things as the game progresses. Stasis stops that cold. Won't the Stasis player run out of blue mana to keep it around? Maybe, or they can bounce it to their hand at the end of your turn, untap, and play it again. Or let it die and play another one. They built their deck to play around their own Stasis. You're never getting a productive turn again this game.
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Dec 5, 2023 17:07
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Tree Bucket posted:I don't really understand Yu Gi Oh cards. The text is so tiny. They must be aggravating to use, right? Or is it kind of assumed you'll have everything memorised. I believe in the other PTF thread on Magic/CCG cards, someone explained it's because Japanese text can convey a lot more info in less space. But when it gets translated to English, what was one line now has to be a whole paragraph.
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Dec 5, 2023 17:25
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there's also very little keywording, and the cards are written in a specific, legalistic way for the purpose of unambiguity, which causes them to be wordier than normal like "you can only use the effect of 'card x' once per turn" is colloquially known as "hard once per turn", meaning other copies of the card can't be used in the same turn. you could probably shorten this as something like "Once (hard)" or even "HOPT" but they really hate keywords.
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Dec 5, 2023 17:39
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it was even worse before where - before they standardized the language used on card text you had poo poo like thisquote:As long as this card remains face-up on the field, all effects of Spell, Trap and/or Effect Monster Cards that involve Graveyards are negated [...] and you don't have to be a professional rules shark to realize the problem with the phrasing of "involves graveyards"
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Dec 5, 2023 17:44
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Yugioh correctly realizes that most of the fun of card games is Um Ackshully-ing everything anyone ever does
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Dec 5, 2023 17:52
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RBA Starblade posted:Yugioh correctly realizes that most of the fun of card games is Um Ackshully-ing everything anyone ever does if you like bad judge calls this is a fun one  quote:The face-up monster(s) with the highest ATK on the field is unaffected by the effects of Spell Cards. When "Pole Position" is removed from the field, destroy the face-up monster(s) with the highest ATK on the field. The old rules on infinite loops were that plays which caused inescapable infinite loops were illegal. This resulted in a janky but really funny and toxic strategy jokingly called "Judge FTK" where you'd set up a position where you'd summon a card which gains ATK based on the number of monsters on the field, and a card which gained attack based on an equipped spell card, and set up a situation where that card would become the highest attacking monster if your opponent summoned any card at all. This meant that summoning a card would cause an infinite loop, and would be illegal, locking your opponent out of the game unless they could destroy Pole Position by spell effect. There was also a theoretical strategy with this involving a monster which gained attack based on the number of cards in your hand, and using a card effect to give it to your opponent's field. This meant that theoretically you could set up a position where your opponent had to draw for turn, cause an infinite loop, and then you'd call a judge and ask for a DQ, since your opponent performed an action which caused an infinite loop. I don't think this ever escaped the theorycrafting stage, but they changed the rules where - if an inescapable infinite loop occurs due to a continuous effect, the "primary cause" of the loop is destroyed (which was more or less read as "destroy Pole Position")
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Dec 5, 2023 18:10
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I think I get it now. There's a deliberately badly-translated edition of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure being posted over the in the comics thread, and the fights always seem to end up being "aha, I stabbed you in the eye" "you fool, I anticipated this, I've learnt to navigate via sonar, you've merely wasted a knife" "you fool, I anticipated this, I've trained to gain energy from sonar" "you fool, I anticipated this, my sonar-energy is actually poisonous" "you fool, I anticipated this, my punch techniques are powered by toxic sonar" etc etc etc etc Yu gi oh seems to be a machine for creating these sorts of situations? Is that the gist of it?
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Dec 5, 2023 21:27
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Tree Bucket posted:I think I get it now. There's a deliberately badly-translated edition of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure being posted over the in the comics thread, and the fights always seem to end up being "aha, I stabbed you in the eye" "you fool, I anticipated this, I've learnt to navigate via sonar, you've merely wasted a knife" "you fool, I anticipated this, I've trained to gain energy from sonar" "you fool, I anticipated this, my sonar-energy is actually poisonous" "you fool, I anticipated this, my punch techniques are powered by toxic sonar" etc etc etc etc Pretty much, though there's also a shitload of "Turn 1: I draw a card and play it. I win." or "Hour three: please let me lose now"
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Dec 5, 2023 21:33
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Nobody loves to rag on MtG as much as MtG players but most don't really recognize how lucky they are that WotC actually understands robust rulesets and game design (most of the time)
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Dec 5, 2023 21:38
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I play Pot of Greed, which allows me to draw two additional cards from my deck.
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Dec 5, 2023 21:41
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The Wicked ZOGA posted:Nobody loves to rag on MtG as much as MtG players but most don't really recognize how lucky they are that WotC actually understands robust rulesets and game design (most of the time) And they're willing to change things, create new rules/keywords/etc...
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Dec 5, 2023 21:51
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