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Any tips for a Thief build? Tried stacking attack speed + crit chance, going all in on dex and Alacrity/Agility/whatever it's called, etc. but I still can't beat Burning Hells.
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Jan 26, 2024 01:26
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Pollyanna posted:Any tips for a Thief build? Tried stacking attack speed + crit chance, going all in on dex and Alacrity/Agility/whatever it's called, etc. but I still can't beat Burning Hells. The honest answer is don't try to shoehorn yourself into a melee build. Most dex ranged weapons are going to just be a ton easier to win with even if you're building crit.
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Jan 26, 2024 01:51
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Fish for Swagger, it's a solid trait and a gamechanger for Thief. If you have a bit of strength you can try to stack Testudo on top of Swagger, if you have a 1H+shield build you can get 100% crits all the time.
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Jan 26, 2024 02:01
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Yeah, Swagger is generally great for anything that triggers off crits.
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Jan 26, 2024 02:11
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Thief is so good though? I don't think there's any special trick that applies to him that doesn't apply to other classes. Just get a decent weapon with at least far range and it should be a free win?
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Jan 26, 2024 02:20
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Thief isn't especially great, that's just you getting the hang of the game in general. The starting gear is nice but the class ability suffers from diminishing returns: it doesn't actually help much until you get more reliable crits, but the more reliably you crit the less benefit you get from guaranteeing crits. That's why Swagger + tally reduction is specifically so good on thief, it's a reliable source of crit that actually gets proportionately more benefit from thief's ability the more you juice it (if you get Swagger down to every other attack then thief's ability is now doubling your entire damage output at a minimum.) Most of the time thief's ability amounts to +30% or so DPS, which is in range of most classes; it takes a little more effort to get there, but it does have more synergy than most.
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Jan 26, 2024 04:06
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Thief has a decent amount of hidden strength in that being able to ignore keys for most of the game means you're pathing towards stuff that gives you way more resources or directly makes you more powerful. Once you start wanting to move on from the lockpicking set you'll likely have enough gold anyway that you can pick up enough keys to last you through the rest of the game via buying Santa boxes and such. After flasks, Keys are probably the weakest room reward. You're giving up one full room worth of rewards for *maybe* being able to open a chest that *might* give you something you can actually use. Gold, bombs, souls, consumables all have much more reliable payoffs (or varied uses outside being spent), and then obviously stat food and armory rooms and event rooms directly make you more powerful.
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Jan 26, 2024 04:15
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I think weapon balancing would be nice to bring bad weapons up and maybe tone down some weapons that let you win high cinder runs easily. Scrolls for fire and poison/frog are a guaranteed clear on any spec for me at this point. Ive yet to get a good summoner build going, every time I get close the runs over. Trying to do it without necro first.
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Jan 27, 2024 00:58
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Having a lot of fun with the game but man is it frustrating having a run I know will easily clear floor 12 on a path and not being able to do as it's my first time through. Happened my first time into both hell and heaven.
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Jan 27, 2024 05:17
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SKULL.GIF posted:Thief has a decent amount of hidden strength in that being able to ignore keys for most of the game means you're pathing towards stuff that gives you way more resources or directly makes you more powerful. Once you start wanting to move on from the lockpicking set you'll likely have enough gold anyway that you can pick up enough keys to last you through the rest of the game via buying Santa boxes and such. Keys are insurance but they're important insurance. You don't take them over anything better if you have a choice but there are plenty of choices where it's just better to take a key (non-mimic chest rooms, bomb rooms when you already have an overabundance, etc) especially because on some classes (Alchemist) having a key is the difference between massively overpowered or not.
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Jan 27, 2024 05:27
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Groovelord Neato posted:Having a lot of fun with the game but man is it frustrating having a run I know will easily clear floor 12 on a path and not being able to do as it's my first time through. Happened my first time into both hell and heaven. Yeah, it's a little salve that it counts killing Death as a "win", but I am annoyed when my broken runs end on floor 11 I always sit on the throne, even though I think the ichor is there to save you the time. PostNouveau fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Jan 27, 2024 |
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Jan 27, 2024 05:33
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PostNouveau posted:Yeah, it's a little salve that it counts killing Death as a "win", but I am annoyed when my broken runs end on floor 11 try drinking the ichor next time. i promise this is not a trap
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Jan 27, 2024 06:36
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Any news on saving during a run at the bonfire or something?
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Jan 27, 2024 12:37
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I really want to like unarmed Monk, but this attack range is loving pitiful.
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Jan 29, 2024 00:37
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There's a hat and a charm that can increase it, but yeah the range of unarmed attacks should just be naturally higher. It's not exactly a powerful build in the first place so there's no reason to lock its viability behind specific pieces of equipment 
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Jan 29, 2024 01:10
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Bard is also complete garbage, I have no idea what the point of its gimmick is. It doesn't provide any real advantage in power or survivability, and it doesn't change the game in an interesting way.
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Jan 29, 2024 15:46
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Pollyanna posted:I really want to like unarmed Monk, but this attack range is loving pitiful. Does anyone have any builds that make Monk's passive really work? I've gotten wins with Monk but it always feels in spite of its passive. Pollyanna posted:Bard is also complete garbage, I have no idea what the point of its gimmick is. It doesn't provide any real advantage in power or survivability, and it doesn't change the game in an interesting way. Bard's gimmick is basically that it gives you a 'free' trait/attribute in exchange for an inventory slot and having to have some form of sound damage. You need to find something that compliments the rest of your build but a lot of the bardsongs are actually extremely good at giving you effectively a free buff/debuff without having to blow an equip slot on it. The limit to sound weapons sucks but you can slot Radio or use the Mastery that makes weapon drops more likely to be the same as your starting weapon type to get around that, and some of the sound weapons are very good. It's something that requires more babying than other passives but it can be pretty effective. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Jan 29, 2024 |
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Jan 29, 2024 17:13
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Most bard songs are pretty much equivalent to a mediocre class passive (there is one that literally does the same thing as Soldier, and it's generally comparable to most other songs.) The songs that grant +100% effect to other buffs/debuffs can lead to fun interesting builds but they're not at all dependable since you need to actually find multiple other sources of the right buffs/debuffs (because doubling a single status effect has roughly the same impact as the status effect had in the first place, which is what most of the songs do in the first place.) And of course there's an aura buff which is quite effective but auras sleepwalk through the game anyhow.
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Jan 29, 2024 17:52
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Bard's got a nice set of homing weapons that allow you to focus entirely on dodging, which I think it a pretty big buff in the later areas. As bullet hell as it gets, I think you're still able to dodge most anything if you can focus on it.
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Jan 29, 2024 17:57
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the holy poopacy posted:Most bard songs are pretty much equivalent to a mediocre class passive (there is one that literally does the same thing as Soldier, and it's generally comparable to most other songs.) The songs that grant +100% effect to other buffs/debuffs can lead to fun interesting builds but they're not at all dependable since you need to actually find multiple other sources of the right buffs/debuffs (because doubling a single status effect has roughly the same impact as the status effect had in the first place, which is what most of the songs do in the first place.) And of course there's an aura buff which is quite effective but auras sleepwalk through the game anyhow. Oh yeah, I'm not arguing it is Demon Hunter tier or anything, just that it can be useful with some babying, compared to Monk where you basically have to cripple yourself to use it.
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Jan 29, 2024 18:02
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I think companions could really use a buff. I just did a run where I took every possible companion buffer, wound up with 5 of them in the end but I wouldn't say they were super helpful. My weapon still wound up being the main damage dealer. Maybe I just didn't hit the magic pickup/trait that makes the come together. Also I have zero clue how you can possibly get the "beat death with 10 companions" achievement. I had 5 with room for a 6th. kaleedity posted:try drinking the ichor next time. i promise this is not a trap did it and lol
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Jan 29, 2024 19:08
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PostNouveau posted:I think companions could really use a buff. I just did a run where I took every possible companion buffer, wound up with 5 of them in the end but I wouldn't say they were super helpful. My weapon still wound up being the main damage dealer. Maybe I just didn't hit the magic pickup/trait that makes the come together. Something that is easy to miss is that companions have weight and you can summon as many companions as you have companion weight available. Some companions only have a .5 or .25 weight which means you can have 2/4 of them out for 1 weight. (Also in case it wasn't obvious you can summon multiple companions from 1 item.) There's also classes that have a 'free' companion or can get companions as a trait (such as Esper's double machine guns) which give you free bonus companions without needing the spend weight.
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Jan 29, 2024 19:12
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PostNouveau posted:I think companions could really use a buff. I just did a run where I took every possible companion buffer, wound up with 5 of them in the end but I wouldn't say they were super helpful. My weapon still wound up being the main damage dealer. Maybe I just didn't hit the magic pickup/trait that makes the come together. I got that achievement with Ninja, who's definitely the easiest way to ger it.
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Jan 29, 2024 19:22
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ImpAtom posted:Something that is easy to miss is that companions have weight and you can summon as many companions as you have companion weight available. Some companions only have a .5 or .25 weight which means you can have 2/4 of them out for 1 weight. (Also in case it wasn't obvious you can summon multiple companions from 1 item.) Ah, I did not know you can summon multiple from 1 item. I assume every companion that's offered in an item pickup is 1, but I haven't checked. I had 5 with the 3 that come with necromancer and then 2 granted as bonuses on items, but with an extra companion weight available, I could have spawned 3 more skeletons to get up to 8 total. I guess it's in striking distance of that 10 achievement. No Wave posted:I've never bothered with all-companion builds the math just doesnt work out, there arent enough scaling factors to get them close to your own damage. Yeah, I wanted to try it out, but it's been pretty clear to me most of the time with the game that the companion buffs are nowhere near as good as the normal weapon/equipment/perk synergies. I just realized though I didn't try to spec mastery for it. There might be something in the tree that helps. Respec-ing the masteries is just such a huge pain the rear end though.
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Jan 29, 2024 19:25
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Also, regarding companions, from what I see you only get the companion benefit once even if you can summon more than one of a companion due to weight.
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Jan 29, 2024 19:29
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Auras turbocharge companions, but auras are also pretty powerful just all on their own anyway so oh well.Kuros posted:Also, regarding companions, from what I see you only get the companion benefit once even if you can summon more than one of a companion due to weight. You definitely get a boost per each companion out. Fetish Dolls are +5% per fetish, for a +20% total when you have four out.
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Jan 29, 2024 19:30
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Beat death with 10 companions is easy to get as the necromancer since you start with a bunch of 1/3 weight companions. Necro companion spam is actually an insanely overpowered build... Until floor 11. Once you get some +companions and summon 6+ skeleton archers they instagib every room and boss as soon as you enter. But then you hit level 6 and their damage stops scaling, and when you get to floor 11 they don't do enough damage to kill anything even if you have 12 of them. E: yeah I did have auras in the run I did this on
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Jan 29, 2024 19:38
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SKULL.GIF posted:Auras turbocharge companions, but auras are also pretty powerful just all on their own anyway so oh well. I'd have to double check, I've seen with the Piggy Bank that I didn't get the double boost when I had the charm that allows for +1 companion and I had two out.
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Jan 29, 2024 19:44
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deep dish peat moss posted:Beat death with 10 companions is easy to get as the necromancer since you start with a bunch of 1/3 weight companions. Necro companion spam is actually an insanely overpowered build... Until floor 11. Once you get some +companions and summon 6+ skeleton archers they instagib every room and boss as soon as you enter. But then you hit level 6 and their damage stops scaling, and when you get to floor 11 they don't do enough damage to kill anything even if you have 12 of them. The last mainline patch added a bunch of love for companions and companion builds are fairly viable with some luck, although still not great. I did a necro run after the patch dropped and was rolling through the postgame with 7 thunderbirds, was a pretty decent run but nothing amazing.
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Jan 29, 2024 19:49
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deep dish peat moss posted:Beat death with 10 companions is easy to get as the necromancer since you start with a bunch of 1/3 weight companions. Necro companion spam is actually an insanely overpowered build... Until floor 11. Once you get some +companions and summon 6+ skeleton archers they instagib every room and boss as soon as you enter. But then you hit level 6 and their damage stops scaling, and when you get to floor 11 they don't do enough damage to kill anything even if you have 12 of them. Don't use companions for damage, use them to turbo-charge yourself. Necromancers can start with 45% crushing hit chance, which is every bit as gibbing as Archers if they get a Lightning weapon and does not fall off as the game progresses.
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Jan 29, 2024 19:53
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Jedit posted:Don't use companions for damage, use them to turbo-charge yourself. Necromancers can start with 45% crushing hit chance, which is every bit as gibbing as Archers if they get a Lightning weapon and does not fall off as the game progresses. People who want to do pet builds generally want their pets to be doing the damage, not themselves. Think like the necromancer in Diablo 2, where your focus is on applying curses to help your pets do damage, not on personally clicking on the enemies. Unfortunately, that generally means that pet builds play completely differently from everyone else and are correspondingly hard to balance.
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Jan 29, 2024 21:29
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:People who want to do pet builds generally want their pets to be doing the damage, not themselves. Think like the necromancer in Diablo 2, where your focus is on applying curses to help your pets do damage, not on personally clicking on the enemies. This is particularly tricky since one of the main ways that you can support pets is with auras, which are so strong they render the pets redundant. I guess you can restrict yourself to thunder aura...
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Jan 29, 2024 21:34
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What exactly is that playstyle? Doing nothing and running in circles? I ask because I've played a dozen+ games at this point where people express disappointment that its not like D2 necromancer.
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Jan 29, 2024 21:35
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D2 Necromancer specifically is casting debuffs/curses on the enemies while your horde of skeletons beats on them. The casting debuffs part is a big part of it because it gives you something active to do, in most games pet classes are "just stand there while your pets attack"
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Jan 29, 2024 21:40
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No Wave posted:What exactly is that playstyle? Doing nothing and running in circles? I ask because I've played a dozen+ games at this point where people express disappointment that its not like D2 necromancer. To be honest, I don't really get it either. People wanted me to add aircraft carriers to my warship game and I couldn't figure out how to make that fun, so I didn't. But I do gather that, yes, you mostly just kick back and let your pets do the work. In a game like Tiny Rogues, presumably you still would have to dodge attacks, but that's about it.
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Jan 29, 2024 21:40
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Kuros posted:I'd have to double check, I've seen with the Piggy Bank that I didn't get the double boost when I had the charm that allows for +1 companion and I had two out. The boost from the pig has a cap, maybe that's the problem.
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Jan 29, 2024 21:41
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people like d2 necromancer specifically because you can make a huge skeleton army and its satisfying to watch 30 skeletons swarm some rear end in a top hat mob
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Jan 29, 2024 22:37
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Nvm I'm just dumb
Bald Stalin fucked around with this message at 11:52 on Jan 30, 2024 |
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Jan 30, 2024 10:34
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A couple significant changes being tested in the new beta patch for 0.2.3:quote:
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Jan 30, 2024 16:26
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Suppression being moved up is a really good change.
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Jan 30, 2024 17:05
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