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Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer
yes hello i have questions:

1) is it still not possible to save and quit during a run :negative:

2) the purple elite enemies, are you supposed to be bombarded with them from the start? i deleted my save and started fresh but even in the first room i had several elites

3) the game is good

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Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer

the runs are just long enough that i wish i could save during the middle..... ah well :negative:


on an unrelated note i thought "bet this would be great to play in bed on my steam deck" but then i realized i have no idea how anyone manages to play this with a controller. long range weapons like bows are fine with the auto-aim but everything else i struggle with using

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer
so many systems have changed since i played this last time......... how does intelligence, mana drain and mana crystals work now?

SKULL.GIF posted:

You should be able to crank up (or down) the autoaim in the settings, that should help a little.
it works fine for projectile weapons but especially the melee weapons that go in an elliptical path just feel impossible to use...

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer
i turned the aim assist up to 100% to test it out and only now realized that the targeting reticle on weapons like scrolls just.... does not have anything to do with where the weapon is aimed. because there's a separate auto-target reticle that moves around to where the attack is actually going to land

it's pretty confusing. the reticle also moves around when i try to menu which feels weird. i still feel like playing this with a controller feels Weird

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer
i just learned that "money" can be a build in this game


had piggy bank familiar and scroll of treasure with some 250-ish gold. on the last floor* i got greed gloves but i never got to see how powerful i would've been with the full set...
https://i.imgur.com/br9E1Zu.mp4

* i started a new file so i'm still just doing "kill death with 5 characters" runs

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer
i really wish the game wasn't so feast or famine - i feel like every single run i either get powerful enough to clear bosses in milliseconds or i'm so weak i struggle to get through normal rooms without taking multiple hits

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer

Shaman Tank Spec posted:

I guess I just need to get better.

uh oh i'm not gonna get far

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer
is the metal guitar broken? the chain lightning from it appears to go backwards instead of towards enemies

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer
what exactly are "repeated attacks"?

is it simply when you hold down the attack button (aka. almost all the time) or does it mean something else like attacks that are duplicated?

WarpedLichen posted:

I've noticed this too, it seems like it does hit when I get close but the screens were so hectic I wasn't sure if it was consistent.

yeah but you need to be basically touching the enemy for it to work, it feels very strange

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer
is there a way to get lawful points other than buying from the law shop?

i'm trying to get to whatever boss is behind that since it's my next objective but having to spend all of my souls on (often completely useless) trinkets and being unable to ever upgrade my hearts, stamina or stars sucks :negative:

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer

WarpedLichen posted:

30 souls per upgrade is really steep for an upgrade that usually doesn't make too much of a difference, I'm a man with no shame so I just pay 10 souls for 2 soul hearts instead.

where are you getting this option? :eyepop:


e: i mentioned it before but i feel like my runs are extremely feast or famine - either i deal so much damage i don't have to look at the screen or i deal so little damage that regular rooms start taking minutes

are there any bonfire upgrades that could help with this?

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer

the holy poopacy posted:

If you're using mana draining weapons, more mana is an easy DPS boost. Sometimes getting an extra heart or stamina means you can drop a defensive armor in favor of something with offense bonuses.
i don't feel like i've really had any points where i get to choose between defense and offense, i mostly just take what i can get and it feels like the terrible runs are just a result of terrible loot :sigh:

Shaman Tank Spec posted:

The damage ranges for some weapons are just wacky.
this also annoys me quite a bit... i know there are a couple of traits that lock your output to either only high or only low rolls but i still wish i had a more reliable damage output instead of a huge range going from single to triple digits


e:
oh hey speaking of companions, is there a way to get more of them without removing their benefits? it feels like i'm missing something really obvious but in ~30 runs i've never seen any way to increase the companion limit without also removing their buff effects (i think it's a dex trait?) which kinda defeats the entire purpose

Your Computer fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Jan 7, 2024

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer

Shaman Tank Spec posted:

The Soul Scarf. It gives you a Soul Heart every time you chug a potion, and you can pay 10 souls to refill your potions at a bonfire.

update on this: it's a starting gift and i had unlocked it without knowing :pram: this is going to be very nice

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer

Broken Cog posted:

The game is honestly pretty easy right now, outside of some of the late cinder modifiers. Mainly because a lot of the purple and orange weapons are absurdly overpowered.

man speak for yourself i'm struggling even on runs where i get a legendary :negative: in all this time i've beaten the final boss once

like i can usually beat death, but a lot of my runs end before i can even get to the boss after that. and then there's another boss after that too :shepface:

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer

SKULL.GIF posted:

IMO giving players the advice of "here's how to build better" is kinda missing the point if they find the game too hard. Yes, it'll help them kill bosses faster. That's not the hard part.

The hard part is surviving the attacks and being able to reliably dodge through the patterns. That's what kills players, not the part of not having enough damage. That part just means fights take longer (which can be cool sometimes: I didn't know Amon had a powerup form until recently).

i mean, the fights against the end bosses become considerably easier if you can skip the worst parts of them and similarly they become considerably harder to avoid damage in if you have to endure them for several minutes

the only time i ever managed to defeat primal death was to kill him before the screen-filling laser attack, and likewise the only time i've ever gotten to any of the end bosses is when i've had enough damage to not get chipped through the last levels with their absolutely ridiculous enemy patterns.

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer
is there some way to tell what attack pattern a weapon has without trying it out that i'm missing?

i absolutely loathe the melee weapons that go in a loop with a targeting reticle and it feels completely arbitrary which ones use that


e: also unrelated but is there a hidden mechanic to make ranged weapons more inaccurate when moving or is that just the autotarget on controller being bad? with some weapons using a controller it's just not possible to hit enemies without standing still :negative:

Your Computer fucked around with this message at 10:48 on Jan 8, 2024

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer

Pseudoscorpion posted:

Most weapons fall into a sort of archetype they adhere to. Flails and Bibles do the orbiting attack thing, scrolls and launchers are mouse-targeted, Axes are thrown projectiles, Staves fire laser beams, and so on, and so forth. Doesn't 100% work - swords sometimes shoot projectiles out and sometimes fire big boomerang swords out, for instance - but you can generally get a decent idea of what a weapon does by thinking about what archetype it belongs to.

swords are exactly what i'm having trouble with, yeah :v: most of the big two-handed swords do the aiming reticle but some work like a boomerang and other swords are usually like daggers except sometimes a weapon like the katana uses the aiming reticle thing anyway


today i finally found out why the soul scarf is so good

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer
it's a completely unrelated topic but i feel like melee weapons (or specifically any weapon with a very short range) are so much more difficult than long range weapons it feels like the only reason you'd wanna use them is for the extra challenge.

like almost all of the bosses and enemies have bullet patterns that originate from the monster, so the closer you are the harder (or even impossible) it becomes to dodge them as the bullets spread out the further away they get. i have no clue how you'd design around this without redesigning the entire game but it bums me out

Shaman Tank Spec posted:

:drat:

What did you do, raid Scrooge McDuck's soul storage?!

5 gold per full heal (flask refill), 3 flasks, drinking a flask grants a soul heart, just keep drinking and healing and drinking and healing :')


e:
there's something else i've been wondering about! the game isn't very clear on what counts as mana star (stat) vs. mana star (pickup) - i notice that you get buffs when you pick up the mana stars on the ground, but are those the only mana star buffs or do you also get passive buffs from just having a certain number of stars?

for example in this trait

it sounds like you get 20% more damage per mana star you have but does it actually just grant you buffs when you pick up?

also some of the text is messed up and i have no idea why. % and some other symbols just display as a box :iiam:

Your Computer fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Jan 8, 2024

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer
i wish the class unlocks used a different system because right now i've unlocked some of the new classes which all sound really weird and fun but i know that i can't unlock anything by playing them and i have to play the old classes (several of which i don't like) instead over and over to ascend to the throne(s) if i want to unlock more

Pain of Mind posted:

I feel like the weapon itemization is kind of off, where a single weapon outright wins runs without needing to build around it. I had an epic staff that was taking maybe 20-30 seconds to clear a normal room, then I found some bible that killed the final stage 12 boss in 5 seconds on its own with no synergy from gear or anything, and it had a negative damage enchantment. It kind of feels like there should be a smoother weapon damage curve, not finding a single item that improves your damage 2000% and winning, or not and losing.

I am still bad enough at dodging that I need to abuse the soul scarf though.

just had this experience today.... my best weapon up until floor 10 was some laser staff that i got literally on floor 1 and i just never got anything better and it was a slow and boring run (and i abused the heck out of the soul scarf so i could have a chance at the bosses with how little damage i was doing). then on floor 10 i got a treasure scroll and the rest of the game went like this

https://i.imgur.com/ymZ0vMf.mp4


e: on the topic of favorite weapons/builds i think my absolute favorite thing in the game has to be "cast on crit". there are so many possible combinations and synergies and it just feels so fun to cast rain of frogs or shoot chain lightning or whatever whenever you crit

Your Computer fucked around with this message at 08:52 on Jan 9, 2024

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer

ImpAtom posted:

Flasks are already the absolute bottom tier when it comes to ways to improve your overall health so sure let's toss in another reason they suck.

yeah that's super weird to me. i figured being able to chug one in combat is about the only benefit of flasks but i guess that's too much too :iiam:

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer
just beat amon in seconds using a blue quality single shot bow that i got on floor 1


the pig is powerful

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer
the weapons really need some more stats to show what they actually do

i just got the kraken bow which on paper looked strictly worse than the bow i already had - same attack speed but half the damage, with a periodic effect that sounded less good too. i still picked it up just because it was legendary and it was only when i equipped it that i found out it fires like 4 shots at once and they're all homing, which makes it way better than the bow i had despite looking much worse in the item description

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer

Jedit posted:

Instead of dropping cages on the weapons, lock the exit door if you're carrying more than one of them. Then players can try out the animations before making a final selection.

:eyepop: genius

e: also yes the game deserves more money it's really good. i only have two unlocks left now but i'm looking forward to playing with the new classes

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer

Veryslightlymad posted:

Instruments are almost universally good, so it's not really a drawback to be forced into one.

are they though? i don't think i've ever had a good run with an instrument, even the legendary ones. the slow projectile speed is such a killer when i could've instead been pelting the enemies with arrows or bombard them with spells


it bums me out tbh because i really want to like the instrument weapon type

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer

WarpedLichen posted:

I play controller with max auto aim and the latest update made tracking really good for the sword cyclones and scrolls which were almost unusable before. Scrolls are now my favorite weapon class.

i also play on a controller now which imo kinda makes the game much harder in a lot of cases due to how wonky the aiming is, but yeah for scrolls if you put auto-aim at 100% it will target even enemies that are off-screen. i typically play with ~20% auto-aim but whenever i pick up a nice scroll i go into the settings and up it to 100% for the easy life


the auto-aim does need some work though, the absolutely most frustrating thing is weapons with slow projectiles or lazy aim which sometimes literally cannot hit constantly moving enemies like the ones that go around the perimeter of the room. it will just always aim where they were and miss. some monsters also break the auto aim so that it aims at where they're going to end up (as in, their next "waypoint" so to speak) instead of where they are which again makes the weapons miss every time. some of the later dragon-type enemies do this and it's a real bummer when it happens

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer

Pain of Mind posted:

On the second floor I got a rare bow that shot pretty weak arrows with a secondary attack of exploding chickens (~2-3 per second?) that were doing 60,000 damage without crits in a good size AOE. It pretty much deleted each room instantly, it might be a bit strong to get 3 minutes into a run.

i'm pretty sure i remember this weapon (cluckshot bow?) from when the game first game out and it was just as overpowered back then

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer

Pollyanna posted:

Seconding this - runs are insanely long now. They should never be more than 20.

i was already having runs go 40+ minutes before the patch :( i'm hardly a speedrunner with these kinds of games, i like taking my time but the runs are so long now and coupled with the fact that you can't save and continue it's kind of a shame. it makes it a lot harder to just sit down for a quick run when you're know you will have to dedicate upwards of an hour and there is no way to save, only abandon the run if something comes up

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer

A Strange Aeon posted:

I just unlocked jester by playing the bard like a wizard. I wish Instruments had more incentive to use, because there's a bunch of them but I almost never pick them.

yea we've talked about it previously too and there just doesn't seem to be much incentive to use them (outside the literal incentives to use them, i.e. bard buffs on sound damage :v: )

i wish there was more variety in them - the fact that they're all relatively mediocre range slow projectiles just makes them kind of... Bad as a category. i think it would be cool if different instruments had different projectiles, like the current slow wavy notes fit great for something like a flute but for an electric guitar or something you really expect something with more punch

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Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer
the dice seem like a really good choice which is why i picked them, but then i keep forgetting to use them constantly :downs:

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