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Origin of Symmetry and Absolution are :discourse Black Holes and Revelations isn’t perfect but has some songs that would make some greatest hits albums even besides those two. Revolutions was… half of it was tolerable. Everything after that has been, to put it charitably, poop from a butt. It’s so weird, everything their entire sound vanished between 2007-2009.
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Dec 22, 2023 22:43
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Uprising was the beginning of the end.
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Dec 23, 2023 07:22
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The Resistance still had elements, but it was a steady descent between then and 2017. Simulation Theory and Will Of The People has zero of the old Muse left. None. Vanished. Pure synthwave and Imagine Dragons aping at this point. Nightmare Cinema fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Dec 24, 2023 |
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Dec 23, 2023 18:57
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The Resistance was where I stick the finger firmly at when they stopped being good. Everything after was objectively worse but that was the start. It was too self-indulgent, which for Muse is saying something, while simultaneously had nothing to say which is very loving bad when youre releasing a concept album rock opera. And they never learned from that and just slipped further and further into below mediocrity.
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Dec 24, 2023 01:38
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I thought they were always crap. Sorry.
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Dec 24, 2023 02:50
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I lost interest in the band when they released 'The Resistance' and didn't pay attention to them for a long time. A while back I went and listened to everything they've put out since (not long before their last album released iirc) and while they haven't put out good albums, there are some excellent tracks scattered throughout that are on-par with their earlier material imo. Can make a very good double album by cherry picking the best tracks off the last four that they put out which is what I did and I enjoy listening to it as much as their early stuff. Did the same with their earlier albums as well, replacing tracks I didn't like with non-album tracks that I preferred and they're just one of those bands, I think, where you have to pick and choose from their catalog to compile what you like. Also helps if you can tune out the lyrics because sometimes they're unbearably bad.
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Dec 24, 2023 05:18
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Even though I agree everything after BHaR has been pretty poo poo, I still have liked 3-4 songs per album and love how they sound live still (though the last Will of the People one was my least favorite. Really loved the Simulation Theory tour tho)
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Dec 24, 2023 07:53
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I recall early muse (Showbiz to Absolution) critics used to make fun of their lyrics for being kinda meaningless. Like standard art school students diary stuff, lots of abstract imagery and a sense of angst but not much you can really definitively say they're about. But then around Resistance they started trying to write songs about the world and holy poo poo it was way better when their lyrics were about nothing. Glenn Beck at one point declared them his favourite band which is the danger when you try and write politically but have no target except being anti general dystopian conspiracy paranoia and pro vague populism. Also, late in their career they've been doing this thing where they take a genre/band and do a really tacky pastiche of it for one song and it never comes off as sincere tribute of the genre. massive spider fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Dec 24, 2023 |
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Dec 24, 2023 14:34
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I'm not the biggest Muse fan but I do hear them often at work and I find a lot of their songs just sorta indistinguishable. I recognize the big hits, but when other songs come on they all just kinda sound derivative of their other stuff. I don't want to say every song sounds the same but they definitely have a Thing That They Do
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Dec 25, 2023 17:01
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Starlight was the real beginning of the end.
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Dec 25, 2023 17:18
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If anyone wants to hear where Muse would be if they didn't currently suck, listen to Maraton.
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Dec 25, 2023 17:38
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Heath posted:I'm not the biggest Muse fan but I do hear them often at work and I find a lot of their songs just sorta indistinguishable. I recognize the big hits, but when other songs come on they all just kinda sound derivative of their other stuff. I don't want to say every song sounds the same but they definitely have a Thing That They Do
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Dec 26, 2023 06:38
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Paperback Writer posted:well the hits you hear at work aren’t their Good Songs They used to have hits that were also good songs
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Dec 26, 2023 17:28
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The REAL Goobusters posted:Starlight was the real beginning of the end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHss7j-khkc
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Dec 27, 2023 00:20
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I really liked Black Holes and Revelations. I think Resistance sucked and I could only listen to the first two songs. Everything after that was just awful, period.
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Dec 31, 2023 04:40
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'Reapers' off of Drones bangs pretty hard though.
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Dec 31, 2023 05:13
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IMO one of their weaker points of their late stage stuff is the drumming. It's basically just kind of functional grooves and boom baps following the riff without a lot of surprises. I was listening to The Handler off Drones because I remember liking that at the time but it feels kind of plodding to me now. As a contrast City of Delusion is one of the high points off black holes and revelations. I've seen them live three times from Origin of Symmetry tour, to at a festival, to just getting a free ticket. The more their music depends on playing to a click and backing track the less exciting it is. massive spider fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Jan 1, 2024 |
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Jan 1, 2024 21:21
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they had a UK top 10 single in 2003, which is fine, Time Is Running Out was a good tune, so they went poppier with BH&R in 2006, and they got two top 10 singles out of it then I guess Bellamy just wanted to get a number 1 single after that b/c Muse's music just became far more commercially safe and far less interesting, so that sucked I guess he thought, oh well, it worked for Jon Anderson in the 80s, so it'll probably work for our prog band too (they have not had a UK top 40 single in 11 years)
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Jan 4, 2024 14:23
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massive spider posted:I recall early muse (Showbiz to Absolution) critics used to make fun of their lyrics for being kinda meaningless. Like standard art school students diary stuff, lots of abstract imagery and a sense of angst but not much you can really definitively say they're about. But then around Resistance they started trying to write songs about the world and holy poo poo it was way better when their lyrics were about nothing. I think that's part of it, but a lot of their success around OoS can be attributed to the kind of neo-classical riffs they had against the backdrop of like nu-metal, toilet circuit post-hardcore and the first bubbles of landfill indie. I think that tag as "the thinking man's rock band" plus the general, tone-deaf "uh... something about drones or surveillance, IDK?" lyrics together makes them seem very... Redditor coded, I guess?
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Jan 8, 2024 14:49
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massive spider posted:I recall early muse (Showbiz to Absolution) critics used to make fun of their lyrics for being kinda meaningless. Like standard art school students diary stuff, lots of abstract imagery and a sense of angst but not much you can really definitively say they're about. But then around Resistance they started trying to write songs about the world and holy poo poo it was way better when their lyrics were about nothing. that's such a bizarre rear end critique because *most* of those lyrics have discernable meaning. It fits a little bit for Showbiz, I guess, but Origin Of Symmetry is almost wall to wall bangers and all of the songs clearly have purpose. Micro cuts is pretty vague i guess? I used to think Futurism was nonsense, but given that it has a bunch of astronomical/astrological references and is about fate, i'm pretty sure that's the space it's playing in? And every album after that is more or less direct, lyrically? I think Muse has stayed good enough. I still end up listening to their albums a lot. Once we get to resistance, we are in "custom playlist" territory rather than "i can just put the album on track 1 and let it play through", the 2nd Law is pretty loving dire, with four good songs and a whole lot of trash. Drones is a solid 6/10, with some pretty bad tracks but also some really killer ones, imo. Simulation Theory is more good than bad to me, like 8/10 at least, and Will Of The People is a genuinely bad, dogshit album with a couple of killer tracks and a couple of "alright" ones. I think fame and art don't mix well together, which is why a lot of artists struggle to keep output good as time goes on. You get set in your ways, or you're just kinda only still doing this thing because it pays the bills, so your heart isn't in it, but you still want to make money making art and being a guy people know, so you keep going when you should maybe pause and find your spark again? But that doesn't pay the bills, and maybe the project that got you famous has such a narrow focus it just can't inspire you anymore, so you turn into a lazy fucker turning in poo albums to get paid and little else Riot Bimbo fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Jan 10, 2024 |
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Jan 10, 2024 03:24
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Simulation Theory was an album I didn’t really like but it had like one or two songs that clicked for me and made me hope they’d turn it around and at least make something good again at some point even if it wasn’t like, BHaR and earlier good. I no longer am under the illusion they can make an album I would listen to start to finish ever again.
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Jan 10, 2024 03:31
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I like them, but I can see why people are over it. Everything since The Resistance feels like they're just not sure how to make a cohesive record. Even their "cut-down, barebones" Drones record had a chorus of Matt saying "killed by drones" as the conclusion. The best thing I think they could do is give themslves a $20k budget and three weeks to record something off-the-cuff. Minimal staff, no string sections and Matt has to pay a million dollars for every time he references authoritarianism. "We Are loving hosed" is a live recording and it's the best they've sounded in ages.
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Jan 10, 2024 07:11
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Disco Pope posted:I think that tag as "the thinking man's rock band" plus the general, tone-deaf "uh... something about drones or surveillance, IDK?" lyrics together makes them seem very... Redditor coded, I guess? essentially, they're Tool for people who don't like metal
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Jan 11, 2024 17:45
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Nah, they're Radiohead for the people that got lost with Kid A.
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Jan 12, 2024 06:41
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massive spider posted:IMO one of their weaker points of their late stage stuff is the drumming. It's basically just kind of functional grooves and boom baps following the riff without a lot of surprises. I was listening to The Handler off Drones because I remember liking that at the time but it feels kind of plodding to me now. As a contrast City of Delusion is one of the high points off black holes and revelations. Yeah, as a longtime fan I don't mind the direction they've gone in, as there are still some good tracks on recent albums, but a lot of bad ones too. But, the drumming has become really uninspired. There's no real creativity and the dude is there to keep time, but seems to have checked out a long time ago.
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Jan 12, 2024 13:57
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Ratios and Tendency posted:Nah, they're Radiohead for the people that got lost with Kid A. I remember hearing that a lot, but I don't heat it, at least outside of the debut. Radiohead for STEM students instead of Politics & IR students, maybe.
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Jan 12, 2024 19:22
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Disco Pope posted:I remember hearing that a lot, but I don't heat it, at least outside of the debut. Radiohead for kids obsessed with accretion disks.
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Jan 13, 2024 18:14
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Disco Pope posted:I remember hearing that a lot, but I don't heat it, at least outside of the debut. He does have a point actually, a lot of Radiohead fans loved their rockers like Just, Paranoid Android, Electioneering, My Iron Lung, Creep, You etc. and they pretty much abandoned that type of music right as Muse appeared on the scene who were basically, "Hey, you enjoyed The Bends? You thought OK Computer was good? Here's more of that" and they provided. Coldplay also got lumped into that same category, albeit for catering to fans of the mellower tracks like Fake Plastic Trees etc. and at the time, I remember the press and fans in general lumping both Muse & Coldplay into the 'Radiohead ripoffs' category. Both bands evolved in different ways but they hit the scene at just the right time and filled the void that Radiohead left as they moved on, and they saw tremendous success because of it. Muse built off Radiohead's rock tracks and took them further, while Coldplay heavily leaned into the more mellow side of Radiohead and took that sound further too. I'd be surprised if fans of early Radiohead didn't also really enjoy the first couple of albums by Muse & Coldplay. henpod posted:Yeah, as a longtime fan I don't mind the direction they've gone in, as there are still some good tracks on recent albums, but a lot of bad ones too. But, the drumming has become really uninspired. There's no real creativity and the dude is there to keep time, but seems to have checked out a long time ago. Dom had to learn double bass drumming for the latest album which he apparently wasn't happy about but Matt insisted. I think it's a pretty wholesome story though tbh. Basically Matt's son likes metal and will go to Muse shows to see his dad on stage but prefers heavier stuff and mentioned Slipknot, so Matt listened to them and decided to do some tracks in that style for the latest album. His son loves them (before album release there was a cute video Matt shared of his son headbanging to one of the new songs in the car  ) and in an interview he said he wanted to try some heavier things just for him and he was happy when he saw he succeeded. It's not a long album either so focusing a couple tracks on the idea of, "I hope my kid likes these" is wholesome as heck imo and turns out they're absolute bangers live  Complete opposite of chasing widespread appeal and success, guy just wanted his son to think he's cool.The album was mostly recorded during Covid lockdowns as well so I think the drums on the album were just programmed by Matt and not actually Dom playing? Considering the "You need to learn double bass now" comment I think that's likely and a lot of DAWs have great sounding drums these days. I saw another interview where Matt gave a tour of his Twin Peaks themed home studio and played one of the tracks on his computer and isolated some backing vocals before sharing that whereas usually the band would get backup singers for what was heard, instead he had everyone's family sing it over Skype etc. and recorded it to get the effect since it was done in lockdown, and that was his parents and Dom & Chris' families all chanting together that he mixed together himself.
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Jan 16, 2024 21:17
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can somebody itt justify the Radiohead comparisons that have dogged Muse forever? I never got into Radiohead, i've heard a few of their radio singles and that's it, but none of them sound anything like Muse to me? People who know both bands, what are some songs I can side-by-side that prove this loving thing? because to me it comes of as tiresome as it is inaccurate.
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Jan 17, 2024 20:02
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One uniting factor is the Jeff Buckley influence. Fake Plastic Trees recording was part inspired by a Buckley performance, Matt Bellamy owns one of Buckleys guitars. Although Radiohead and Buckleys careers overlap so its not a direct lift, but all three singers have a high wailing but clean tenor with a wide vibrato and falsetto that isn't a super common singing style in rock. Also the thing Johnny Greenwood does in Just where he plays aggressively fast octave lines is also a favourite Matt Bellamy guitar thing. If you made a rock track with a male singer going "WhhoOOoooOOOoooOaaaaHH" in a high voice while the guitar did that hysterical octave strum thing the immediate mental comparison would be Muse - But thats also the crescendo of Creep. That not to say that the accusation they're 'ripping off' Radiohead is accurate any more so than every other contemporary band shares musical of tropes from related acts. You only need to have like one visible trope in common with another band to draw comparison if that trope is distinctive enough. You can always tell when a band is doing a RATM inspired bit for example because even a little bit of RATM is really obvious. massive spider fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Jan 17, 2024 |
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Jan 17, 2024 22:51
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Riot Bimbo posted:can somebody itt justify the Radiohead comparisons that have dogged Muse forever? Radiohead were the biggest band in the UK in the mid to late 90s, playing radio friendly arena rock. In 2000 they released Kid A, which was an experimental electronic album with no singles or music videos. It was a massive critical success but didn't have the general audience pop of their older stuff, intentionally (it was Thom Yorke rejecting rock stardom). Coldplay and Muse came in at almost exactly this point to fill the niche of post-Radiohead straight up radio and music video rock bands. They weren't ripping off Radiohead, Muse had their classical influence that stood out, but they were clearly massively influenced by Radiohead, virtually every English white guy band was. Muse and Coldplay both functioned as a "what if Kid A never happened" offramp for the people that liked the massively popular 90s rock version of Radiohead.
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Jan 18, 2024 00:24
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Ratios and Tendency posted:Radiohead were the biggest band in the UK in the mid to late 90s, playing radio friendly arena rock. caveat to this: OK Computer wasn't exactly radio friendly arena rock, it just came out in the right place at the right time that it blew up like The Bends before it + they had three UK top ten singles from the album anyway also, it's not like Kid A was a massive commercial failure, it was still a number one album in five different countries, just that they didn't have any singles and wasn't mainstream in the slightest, and like you said that was all by design
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Jan 18, 2024 01:20
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I think the Muse/Radiohead comparisons are ridiculous unless the only Radiohead song you’ve ever heard is Just and I think Muse started sucking because Matt Bellamy is a lunatic who thinks Bush did 9/11
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Jan 18, 2024 01:23
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massive spider posted:One uniting factor is the Jeff Buckley influence. Fake Plastic Trees recording was part inspired by a Buckley performance, Matt Bellamy owns one of Buckleys guitars. I think we've seen the same interview. It's where Matt said in the early days they didn't know what to do about vocals because Matt was so nervous about his style of singing until he saw a Buckley performance on TV and that gave him the confidence to do vocals? Could swear I read somewhere the US release of Origin of Symmetry was initially turned down by the record company because of all the falsetto as well. Ratios and Tendency posted:Radiohead were the biggest band in the UK in the mid to late 90s, playing radio friendly arena rock. In 2000 they released Kid A, which was an experimental electronic album with no singles or music videos. I remember a music video for Idioteque (live performance in a room with security cameras) which NIN did their own take on with the lead single for With Teeth in '05. Radiohead made all these bizarre "blips" that acted as adverts for Kid A as well, odd little cartoons with the bear or other Donwood/Thom visuals onscreen while a snippet of a Kid A track played. It was charmingly quirky. Escobarbarian posted:I think the Muse/Radiohead comparisons are ridiculous unless the only Radiohead song you’ve ever heard is Just A lot of the comparisons were pushed by the UK music press. Bands like Stereophonics, Oasis & Blur etc. were spared the comparisons but the way in which Muse & Coldplay were compared weren't ridiculous, imo. I personally found it odd that Blur weren't considered a contemporary however and 'Music Is My Radar' was released a couple weeks after Kid A and honestly wouldn't have been out of place actually being on the record despite being a different band. Damon was really forward thinking but chose to pursue Gorillaz shortly after which became a phenomenon. As for politics, last interview with Matt I saw had him describe himself as a socialist libertarian. Actually said it with a completely straight face.
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Jan 18, 2024 14:16
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SUNKOS posted:
my guess: he took the political compass test and his result was in the green area i dont think it goes further than that
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Jan 18, 2024 16:22
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Escobarbarian posted:I think the Muse/Radiohead comparisons are ridiculous unless the only Radiohead song you’ve ever heard is Just What a psycho. All the sane people know it was Donald Rumsfeld.
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Jan 18, 2024 17:48
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I just assumed he was super on coke when someone asked about 9/11, and really, whomst amongst us
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Jan 19, 2024 10:19
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Can we formally make this the new Muse thread? Here's my personal ranking: 1. Absolution 2. Black Holes and Revelations 3. Origin of Symmetry (BH&R is just more fun, sorry) 4. Showbiz (TBH I don't really listen to this one much, I just acknowledge that it's higher quality) 5. The Resistance 6. The 2nd Law 7. Simulation Theory 8. Will of the People 9. Drones On Resistance they still sound like themselves, but there's clearly trouble on the horizon. I still really like the last 3 tracks, I liked them going all-in on the pretentious classical operatic stuff, not for a whole album but just a mini-suite. That worked for me. "Uprising" was so lame and obvious though, even at the time, and they keep trying to re-make it on every album now for some reason. 2nd Law is a pretty good album if you totally rearrange the tracklist, but production-wise they definitely no longer sounded like themselves. Among other things, I feel like a telltale sign is you can't hear Matt's trademark intakes of breath. Obviously the bigger issue is the same issue as pretty much every aging rock band, where it sounds like at no point were they ever in the same room playing together, everything's to a click, the drums are pretty obviously overdubbed, etc. All of the above is even worse on Drones because most of the songs are supposed to be pretty heavy, but they sound totally digital. Some of them are fun despite the production, but most of them are pretty lifeless. Some of the songwriting is pretty bad too; Mercy, Defector, Revolt, and Aftermath are all pretty disposable and pale imitations of what they used to do. At least 2nd Law was different. And then "The Globalist" (yikes at that title nowadays) is trying so hard to be epic but just doesn't really stick the landing. And of course, the lyrics make all this a hundred times worse. And then the last 2, they're still in that same zone, treading water. I think they were a little better because they weren't really even trying to sound like they used to. "Pressure" is an extremely solid song, and I also unapolagetically -- well okay, maybe apologetically -- love the Halloween song. But then you also have songs like "Will of the People" which is borderline unlistenable.
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Jan 19, 2024 20:58
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knights of cydonia is a cool song (thanks guitar hero 3) but i don't like muse and i'd rather listen to the killers. thanks for listening i'll take my reply off the air
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Jan 19, 2024 21:00
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Escobarbarian posted:I think the Muse/Radiohead comparisons are ridiculous unless the only Radiohead song you’ve ever heard is Just This could be a time/place thing, but I liked Origin of Symmetry when it came out. I even had the poster my record shop was going to throw out. It seemed to unite all the alternative kids a bit - a hand across the aisles between the metal kids and the indie kids. Now, of course, the album came out 2001 and was still being spun a lot when 9/11 happened by DJs and on MTV2/Kerrang! It was a huge album! There was a gap in the market for indie fans and heavier music fans who wanted something a bit more progressive, since nu-metal was in full swing and Britpop had poo poo the bed. I don't know if this is Muse's fault, exactly, but there's a vagueness to their lyrics that seemed to really suit the kind of guy you'd meet around that period who seemed cool because he was anti-war on terror or whatever, but turned out just to be a "durrrrr, government bad!!" guy.
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Jan 20, 2024 10:12
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