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Which season of Doctor Who should get a Blu-ray set next? This poll is closed. |
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| One of the black-and-white seasons |
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16 | 29.63% |
| Season 7 |
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7 | 12.96% |
| Season 11 |
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1 | 1.85% |
| Season 13 |
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0 | 0% |
| Season 15 |
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2 | 3.70% |
| The Key to Time |
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21 | 38.89% |
| Season 21 |
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0 | 0% |
| Season 25 |
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7 | 12.96% |
| Total: | 54 votes | ||
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Welcome to the stopgap Doctor Who thread, where we re-litigate the (season) 30s and speculate misinformation on how to watch the show outside of the UK. ANYWAY, Russel T Davies and his independent production company Bad Wolf have clearly won over the Goon audience, what with the last thread (for four episodes) getting almost as many pages as the thread for Whittaker's first season and New Year's special (eleven episodes). Will the honeymoon last? We won't know until May, when Doctor Who returns! Or debuts, if you believe the Walt Disney Company. The previous thread can be found here Now, the formalities. NO SPOILERS We have a designated spoiler thread that is thankfully relevant once again. If you think it's a spoiler, don't post it in this thread! WHERE DO I START? The Church on Ruby Road is the easiest place to start, given that it features a new Doctor and new companion giving first impressions. Hey, you finished! If you want to watch the original series, there are plenty of places to start. You COULD start with An Unearthly Child and watch everything in chronological order. You could also watch individual serials of all the Doctors and determine which you like the best. Keep in mind, don't shotgun a whole Hartnell or Troughton in one go, or else you'll get complacent. Those 60's episodes are meant to be seen one at a time, and if you only just rented the DVD, wait a few hours between episodes. The most popular serials for the original series you can jump into are: First Doctor: An Unearthly Child, The Aztecs Second Doctor: The Tomb of the Cybermen, The Enemy of the World Third Doctor: Spearhead from Space, Carnival of Monsters Fourth Doctor: Pyramids of Mars, The Robots of Death Fifth Doctor: Kinda, Frontios Sixth Doctor: Vengeance on Varos, Revelation of the Daleks Seventh Doctor: Dragonfire, Remembrance of the Daleks HOW DO I WATCH DOCTOR WHO? If you're in the UK, it's easy - turn on BBC One to watch new episodes, or fire up your iPlayer and watch almost every episode of Doctor Who in existence! For everyone else, it's complicated. Here's where you can stream: 1963-1989: BritBox 2005-2022: Max in the United States, Prime Video in Canada, and Foxtel Now in Australia (if you live somewhere else, I'm sorry, but I can't put every nation here) 2023-20??: Disney+ And no, it's not getting any simpler. Also, don't ask about how to stream the TV movie, because I can't find out. Leave me alone! SHOULD I BUY THE DVDs AND BLU-RAYs? Just for the bonus features alone. They can't take those away from you! THE ALL-NEW GUIDE TO BIG FINISH There are literally THOUSANDS of Doctor Who and Doctor Who-related audio dramas released by Big Finish Productions. In previous threads, I would pour over all the individual lines and describe them. With the great restructure of Big Finish lines, though, I have to adapt. So, here are some bullet points: -Doctors 1-12 have their own individual lines now, although obviously the first three Doctors are not played by Hartnell, Troughton, and Pertwee. Here's a handy guide: if it's current series Doctor Who, "Adventures" means it's the actual actors, while "Chronicles" means it's not. -The Companion Chronicles & the Early Adventures generally do not feature the Doctor, and some of them are essentially audiobooks with sound effects. Check the cast list if you want to know which is which. -If you have ever asked "what about <random character x>?", boy are you in luck! There are so many spin-offs featuring characters both familiar and unfamiliar that you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a series that makes you say "THEY got a series?" Some are good, some are bad, most are unremarkable. -Everyone has a taste, so don't rely on other people's opinions. For example, I don't care for or about Charlotte Pollard and her spin-off, but some people do! Some crazy people enjoy the story Nekromanteia - you do you! THE DISCORD Here it is. The future is now! FINALLY, let's take a look back....all the way to ten years ago! Plavski posted:I hate that cold feeling of horror that shivers up my spine whenever I remember Bonnie Langford was a companion. 
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Dec 30, 2023 06:19
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| # ? Apr 28, 2024 19:05 |
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New thread! No new jukebox 
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Dec 30, 2023 06:31
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Jerusalem posted:New thread! True, but it is wheelchair-accessible.
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Dec 30, 2023 06:53
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Dec 30, 2023 06:58
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Oh the round things, I love the round things!
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Dec 30, 2023 08:01
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Oh the round things, I love the round things! Me, too! ... What do they do?
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Dec 30, 2023 08:43
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W.T. Fits posted:Me, too! ... What do they do? …no idea
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Dec 30, 2023 09:12
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voted Key to Time, results did not disappoint
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Dec 30, 2023 11:47
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One of my girlfriends got me back into Who earlier this year after I fell off during Eleven, and I ended up listening to a bunch of the Ninth Doctor Adventures at my lovely night job. Do you like that season? Do you wish there was more of it? Good news! You, too, can hear the Ninth Doctor be a trans ally and also listen to an episode that’s just about how cool the early polar expeditions were, and it’s all great.
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Dec 30, 2023 14:46
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New thread? Oooo, new thread, that's weird. Now, where was I? Oh, right - you made me think there was some weird new news about the 96 movie with that thread title. 😂
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Dec 30, 2023 15:55
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I know this thread…what? WHAT?!
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Dec 30, 2023 16:59
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Ooh, should've waited a little longer to post. But then I ran the risk of not getting my joke in... Looks like we've got a big 7th Doctor release: https://www.bigfinish.com/releases/v/doctor-who-the-seventh-doctor-adventures-the-last-day-1-2626 quote:There is always injustice to fight. There is always a new danger for the universe. But what if the Doctor found a way to put things right, once and for all? Would it really be so terrible to take a stand? Would the end justify the means? And would his friends agree? The Seventh Doctor’s last day is coming… 12 parts of Sly scheming and plotting? I am onboard. If I wasn't already sold by that, including Beevers' Master was the cherry on top that pushed it over. Diving into this today, will report back!
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Dec 30, 2023 17:28
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McGann posted:Looks like we've got a big 7th Doctor release: I'm an episode in, and I'm mostly being annoyed with how mediocre Joe Kraemer's score and sound design is. I'm used to him self-plagiarizing, I'm used to him ripping off John Williams, but the bit where the newscast jingle comes on made me do a double take. It's the opening to the DS9 theme.
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Dec 30, 2023 17:54
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Open Source Idiom posted:I'm an episode in, and I'm mostly being annoyed with how mediocre Joe Kraemer's score and sound design is. I'm used to him self-plagiarizing, I'm used to him ripping off John Williams, but the bit where the newscast jingle comes on made me do a double take. It's the opening to the DS9 theme. Well, I'm having phone issues that are preventing me from listening at the moment. So this is now on hold while I perform tech support. Hopefully the rest of it covers for the mediocre scoring.
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Dec 30, 2023 17:57
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McGann posted:Well, I'm having phone issues that are preventing me from listening at the moment. So this is now on hold while I perform tech support. Yeah like I'm one episode in it's okay so far. They're basically doing Infinity War, as far as I can tell, which is fair enough. But they're also trying to stitch together the work of a bunch of different recording sessions and unfortunately BF have sent their worst director and sound guy to solve the problem. There's cool stuff, like some of the structural cleverness in the first episode -- I'm a fan of how the first episode basically explains exactly what's going on without anyone actually being told anything -- but, on the other hand, I'm also pretty sure Bonnie Langford has no idea what's going on either. It's the kind of story where you actually need a director who's got a strong handle on the material because the plot relies on a bunch of references to other stories, it's being relayed to us via implication, it's jumping around all over the place, it's being recorded without actors being anywhere near each other (seven recording sessions for something that would normally take three)... and Samuel Clemens is just not up to that IMO. So, you end up with a reliable actor like Langford actively struggling to track her character's emotional state from scene to scene. Feels like a bit of a mixed bag.
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Dec 30, 2023 18:15
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A Pond becomes a River....but.....a River....can become....a Flood... Do it RTD you coward, do it
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Dec 30, 2023 20:33
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Damming of The Flood
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Dec 30, 2023 22:36
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DavidCameronsPig posted:A Pond becomes a River....but.....a River....can become....a Flood... The Toymaker: Und then he vas meeting River Song again! Und River Song...... Toymaker spends several minutes rapidly blinking, the Doctor and Donna quietly leave.
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Dec 31, 2023 00:38
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Jerusalem posted:Response to my "maybe the Tardis is the Timeless Child" post. I just want a retcon that un-fucks everything that you talked about. They're not special by birth, dammit!
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Dec 31, 2023 00:51
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I’m on The End of Time. I forgot how batshit insane it was. The Master doing a super frog jump and eating homeless people. The Doctor knowing that The Master is out there somewhere, instinctively checks a rock quarry. Obama fixing the economy. Obama becoming The Master.
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Dec 31, 2023 00:56
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Detective No. 27 posted:I’m on The End of Time. I forgot how batshit insane it was. The Master doing a super frog jump and eating homeless people. The Doctor knowing that The Master is out there somewhere, instinctively checks a rock quarry. Obama fixing the economy. Obama becoming The Master. It's peak bad RTD. There's a few great character moments, but the story and part 1 in particular is rough.
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Dec 31, 2023 02:15
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Obama’s head rapidly shaking as he becomes The Master is an image I’ve never been able to get out of my head.
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Dec 31, 2023 02:45
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There's a reason the End of Time is a punching bag on Radio Free Skaro, particularly the potions bit.
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Dec 31, 2023 03:03
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I just got to The Day of the Doctor on my rewatch and my main thought was "Wow, this really doesn't fit with The End of Time at all", but equally I can sort of understand Grand Moff Steven's impulse to overlook it. (Hell, he already retconned Stolen Earth/Journey's End out of existence with some throwaway lines in Victory of the Daleks).
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Dec 31, 2023 03:30
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Warthur posted:I just got to The Day of the Doctor on my rewatch and my main thought was "Wow, this really doesn't fit with The End of Time at all", but equally I can sort of understand Grand Moff Steven's impulse to overlook it. (Hell, he already retconned Stolen Earth/Journey's End out of existence with some throwaway lines in Victory of the Daleks). Isn't End of Time happening simultaneously? I swear they reference Rassilon hanging out with his forces doing a hail mary.
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Dec 31, 2023 03:42
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Yep, they comment that Rassilon is off doing his own thing and they can't rely on him to save them/fight for them. We can presume that Rassilon's plan to "ascend" was to do so with a chosen political elite and he was willing to leave everybody else on the planet to die. Luckily the Doctor stopped Rassilon's plan in his 10th incarnation, while 11 saved all those people, including Rassilon's elite, by freezing Gallifrey and shunting it into a pocket universe. Everybody lived, especially all those children whose deaths haunted him. Then the Master just brutally murdered all of them, kids included, a little later and the Doctor just kind of shrugged and didn't give a poo poo.
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Dec 31, 2023 03:48
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Open Source Idiom posted:Isn't End of Time happening simultaneously? I swear they reference Rassilon hanging out with his forces doing a hail mary. They do mention it in passing. What isn't clear is how Gallifrey being locked a little spacetime pocket per Rassilon's plan in that materially differs from Gallifrey being locked in a little spacetime pocket per the gambit the Doctors pull off in Day of the Doctor. I mean, unless I badly misinterpreted the end of The End of Time, Gallifrey isn't destroyed at the end of that, it just goes back into the weird timelocked state the rest of the Time War is in - and so could presumably be extracted again, albeit not via the Master-based means Rassilon had planned. And even if that's not the case, you still have a setup where "actually, the time colonialists were bad, we should probably keep them in the cupboard" has this tension with "but think of the time colonialists' children, maybe we should let them out of the cupboard" and I am not sure I wholly trust Moffat to handle that (I've only just started on 12th Doctor stuff, which I had seen none of before bar Twice Upon a Time). I don't know, I just think Moffat wanted to pivot back from "oh no, actually Gallifrey is a bad place" to "I miss Gallifrey  " but didn't really do the legwork prior to Day of the Doctor to sell me on that. Which, given that he had three chuffing seasons to do it in, is pretty negligent.
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Dec 31, 2023 03:51
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Jerusalem posted:Yep, they comment that Rassilon is off doing his own thing and they can't rely on him to save them/fight for them. We can presume that Rassilon's plan to "ascend" was to do so with a chosen political elite and he was willing to leave everybody else on the planet to die. EDIT: Also, the visuals in End of Time seem fairly clearly set up to give the impression that the majority of Gallifrey is firmly behind Rassilon. He might have his elite war council but his plan is announced in a massive assembly hall (ripping off the Star Wars prequels because End of Time was really big on its Star Wars riffs, it even has a Millennium Falcon in it), with only two people out of the masses and masses of folk there dissenting. In terms of what the show presents us with, there's no basis to think that there's sad Gallifreyan children getting exterminated or brave little soldiers on the front lines - especially considering the way RTD made the Time War seem weird and mythic and distinctly unconventional in his allusions to it - and "But what about the kids?" is basically something Moffat adds in. It's a legitimate alternate take, but it's an alternate take which to my mind goes beyond responding to what RTD did in End of Time and creeps into disrespecting it. Warthur fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Dec 31, 2023 |
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Dec 31, 2023 03:55
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Warthur posted:They do mention it in passing. What isn't clear is how Gallifrey being locked a little spacetime pocket per Rassilon's plan in that materially differs from Gallifrey being locked in a little spacetime pocket per the gambit the Doctors pull off in Day of the Doctor. I was sure he said they planned to "ascend" to something akin to the Eternals and essentially cease to exist as material/physical beings, wiping out the rest of the universe to "win" the war while protecting those Rassilon deemed worthy of joining him? I'll need to rewatch it though. As you note in your other post, I remembered a much smaller assembly of Time Lords then you say there was, so I thought it was a few hundred people at most with just a couple of the "elites" dissenting (with the suggestion they may have been Romana and Susan, or at least maybe I just made that assumption?) as opposed to tens of thousands if not more. Edit: here it is from the transcript: Rassilon: We will initiate the Final Sanction. The end of time will come at my hand. The rupture will continue until it rips the Time Vortex apart. Master: That's suicide. Rassilon: We will ascend to become creatures of consciousness alone. Free of these bodies, free of time, and cause and effect, while creation itself ceases to be. So basically Rassilon's plan was essentially very close to Davros' "Reality Bomb", except Davros intended to just sit outside of reality with the Daleks while the rest of reality was wiped out, then return to exist in a state where the ONLY thing was existed physically was the Daleks (who would promptly set about having a civil war over what counted as a Dalek, I'm sure). Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 04:13 on Dec 31, 2023 |
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Dec 31, 2023 04:10
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Warthur posted:They do mention it in passing. What isn't clear is how Gallifrey being locked a little spacetime pocket per Rassilon's plan in that materially differs from Gallifrey being locked in a little spacetime pocket per the gambit the Doctors pull off in Day of the Doctor. I think it's different. Rassilon's plan in The End of Time is that he jump Gallifrey forwards past the end of the war, where as the Doctor's plan in Day Of The Doctor is that Gallifrey get banned to an alternate universe. Warthur posted:And even if that's not the case, you still have a setup where "actually, the time colonialists were bad, we should probably keep them in the cupboard" has this tension with "but think of the time colonialists' children, maybe we should let them out of the cupboard" and I am not sure I wholly trust Moffat to handle that (I've only just started on 12th Doctor stuff, which I had seen none of before bar Twice Upon a Time). I've always thought this was dumb. The Doctor wouldn't ever kill kids but apparently absolutely would exile them to an empty universe populated by fascist death cult with no one around to target except the weakest of their own herd. Ahuh. I think there's a FP short story collection that suggests the Doctor's "will nobody think of the children" moment was actually a Gallifreyian psyop lmao.
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Dec 31, 2023 04:16
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Finally got around to watching the Christmas special. It was decent enough for that kind of thing and I certainly like Ncuti but I think I'm over the sugar rush high of Rusty and show being back and am really looking forward to more of a variation in tone
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Dec 31, 2023 04:30
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Jerusalem posted:I was sure he said they planned to "ascend" to something akin to the Eternals and essentially cease to exist as material/physical beings, wiping out the rest of the universe to "win" the war while protecting those Rassilon deemed worthy of joining him? Honestly with the context of the recent episodes it kinda sounds like Rassilon was trying to become the Not-Things from Wild Blue Yonder.
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Dec 31, 2023 04:48
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Captain Fargle posted:Honestly with the context of the recent episodes it kinda sounds like Rassilon was trying to become the Not-Things from Wild Blue Yonder. I figured a force akin to the Eternals or maybe even the Toymaker, but Rassilon being Rassilon he would definitely turn into some monstrous Lovecraftian incomprehensible horror like the Not-Things. He was already sorta kinda half-way there in The Five Doctors anyway.
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Dec 31, 2023 04:57
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I think the main difference between Davies and Moffat and their visions of the climax of the Time War is their respective levels of cynicism. Davies says that evil not only exists but lurks in the hearts of normal people, and can be released without much prompting- see Midnight. The Daleks are actively, consciously evil, like Mind Flayers in D&D or something. Of course the Time Lords turned evil. A whole species became unrepentantly, unfixably evil, and had to be extinguished for the good of the universe. Moffat refuses to believe in evil in the same way. His first two Doctor Who stories were about malfunctioning machinery. The whole Silence arc was ultimately about people with relatable motives loving up. Even the Daleks are portrayed as victims, their evil maintained by constant technological control over what they're allowed to see, even what they're allowed to express, reinforced from the top down. Through that lens, of course the entire Time Lord species didn't turn evil. Maybe the elites did, Rassilon and his inner circle and the Time Lord Congress or whoever that he made his "Gallifrey Rises" speech to. But not the salt of the earth common folk. Not the janitors, the shopkeepers, the Shabogans. Not the children. Clara says in Day Of The Doctor, "you said you wiped out your own people, I just never pictured you doing it". Moffat can't imagine the Doctor actually destroying Gallifrey, Davies could
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Dec 31, 2023 05:23
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2house2fly posted:But not the salt of the earth common folk. Not the janitors, the shopkeepers, the Shabogans. I just don't think these people exist on Time War Gallifrey. Gallifrey doesn't have janitors, shopkeepers, etc. and the Shabogans would be rounded up into reeducation camps, and either conscripted or slaughtered. So I think it's a problem of Moffat's imagination, rather than Clara's, in that he has to assume such people would exist for any place to function. It's like the Daleks. They've got slaves because slaves serve a purpose for Dalek recreation, but they don't actually need them for anything else. Open Source Idiom fucked around with this message at 05:52 on Dec 31, 2023 |
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Dec 31, 2023 05:50
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Jerusalem posted:I was sure he said they planned to "ascend" to something akin to the Eternals and essentially cease to exist as material/physical beings, wiping out the rest of the universe to "win" the war while protecting those Rassilon deemed worthy of joining him? People in this thread are probably right, I misunderstood and misremembered. But the mere fact I did get confused when I got to The End of Time in my watchthrough really not that long ago suggests that Moffat didn't do enough heavy lifting in this episode to avoid the question. A bit where Clara drags the Eleventh Doctor aside and said "I thought you said Gallifrey hopped out of the Time War thanks to Rassilon's plan?" and he said "Yes, but I sort of had to make it hop back again" would have been enough for me, and would have also been a chance for Eleven to say "FFS don't tell Ten or War about anything I've told you, they probably won't remember it and if they did you could seriously gently caress up my timeline." Maybe it's RTD's fault for making the situation in The End of Time rather confusing? It perhaps isn't helpful that RTD (and to an extent Moffat) has a tendency to treat time and space as basically the same thing, so "locked in a bubble of time towards the end of the Time War, which has been partitioned off from the rest of the time stream" ends up feeling functionally identical to "locked in a pocket universe separate from the rest of space", even if in principle those should be different things. Maybe it's my fault for thinking too hard about the continuity stuff, rather than the story at hand. But actually, gently caress you, it's not my fault: when the story at hand is specifically obsessed with continuity, I am going to pay attention to continuity, and when you have two stories explaining their concepts in as hurried and technobabble-filled manner as those two confusion is inevitable. Warthur fucked around with this message at 07:12 on Dec 31, 2023 |
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Dec 31, 2023 07:04
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Warthur posted:But actually, gently caress you, it's not my fault: when the story at hand is specifically obsessed with continuity, I am going to pay attention to continuity, and when you have two stories explaining their concepts in as hurried and technobabble-filled manner as those two confusion is inevitable. Yeah no, Moffat does a lot of big continuity stories and they're usually a huge mess with a lot of off-screen heavy lifting. But that mostly turns up again in the Ninth Series.
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Dec 31, 2023 07:14
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Imagine the universe as a tall building, with each floor being a different period of history. The Time War is one floor of that building and all the doors are locked so none of the participants can go to a different floor. Rassilon's plan is to pick the lock on a door to a stairwell and get himself to another floor, doing so much damage to the building itself in the process that the whole thing comes tumbling down. David Tennant shoves him back in and locks the stairwell door, and then later Matt Smith moves everyone he likes on that floor into a different building entirely.
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Dec 31, 2023 07:51
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| # ? Apr 28, 2024 19:05 |
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Warthur posted:They do mention it in passing. What isn't clear is how Gallifrey being locked a little spacetime pocket per Rassilon's plan in that materially differs from Gallifrey being locked in a little spacetime pocket per the gambit the Doctors pull off in Day of the Doctor. The time lock isn't a separate bubble, it's a period of space/time with blocks so you can't travel in or out of it or change it with time travel. Gallifrey's existence ended a few minutes after Rassilon tried to pull off his plan and failed, when at the Doctor's command the moment vapourised both the planet and the Dalek fleet. The time lock just ensures that nothing can ever change that. (At least that's what it seemed, but the Moment, the creator of the lock, allowed them an alternative where with the help of other versions of the doctor, they would just make it seem like Gallifrey was vapourised, but instead continued to exist hidden away.) Rassilon, under the belief that Gallifrey was about to end, engineered a pathway out of the lock (via the Master) and tried to forcefully drag Gallifrey out of the lock back into the wider universe, with all the worst poo poo of the time war coming with it along for the ride. Doing that would have so much space time fuckery it would split the vortex apart and destroy them universe, but Rassilon was going to ride that and ascend the Time Lord council into beings of consciousness beyond space-time at the cost of the universe. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 08:19 on Dec 31, 2023 |
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Dec 31, 2023 08:14
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