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Which season of Doctor Who should get a Blu-ray set next? This poll is closed. |
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| One of the black-and-white seasons |
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16 | 29.63% |
| Season 7 |
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7 | 12.96% |
| Season 11 |
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1 | 1.85% |
| Season 13 |
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0 | 0% |
| Season 15 |
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2 | 3.70% |
| The Key to Time |
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21 | 38.89% |
| Season 21 |
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0 | 0% |
| Season 25 |
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7 | 12.96% |
| Total: | 54 votes | ||
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2house2fly posted:Imagine the universe as a tall building, with each floor being a different period of history. The Time War is one floor of that building and all the doors are locked so none of the participants can go to a different floor. Rassilon's plan is to pick the lock on a door to a stairwell and get himself to another floor, doing so much damage to the building itself in the process that the whole thing comes tumbling down. David Tennant shoves him back in and locks the stairwell door, and then later Matt Smith moves everyone he likes on that floor into a different building entirely. I approve of your choice of metaphor being pretty much exactly the caliber that the show itself would use.
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Dec 31, 2023 08:19
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Warthur posted:EDIT: Also, the visuals in End of Time seem fairly clearly set up to give the impression that the majority of Gallifrey is firmly behind Rassilon. He might have his elite war council but his plan is announced in a massive assembly hall (ripping off the Star Wars prequels because End of Time was really big on its Star Wars riffs, it even has a Millennium Falcon in it), with only two people out of the masses and masses of folk there dissenting.  The assembly hall is specifically called out as the Time Lord High Council. It looks to be maybe a couple of hundred people? And it's strongly implied that Rassilon has purged everyone who isn't his type. The High Council was trying to pull off the Ultimate Sanction while the Military Council and the rest of the Time Lords were still fighting trying to win the war. It seems like that shook the council's support and so when Twelve turned up on Gallifrey later on the wider population of Time Lords and the military were happy to kick Rassilon and his gang to the curb. Anyone else feel like at some point in the history of the show Rassilon should have been played by Brian Blessed? MikeJF fucked around with this message at 08:34 on Dec 31, 2023 |
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Dec 31, 2023 08:27
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Folks I am glad and grateful you can all explain to me how End of Time and Day of the Doctor fit together and I genuinely don't need another explanation at this stage, my point is more that I shouldn't need you all to explain it because Moffat should have made it clearer. Brief lines about "the High Council are doing something" don't cut it.
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Dec 31, 2023 08:50
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But explaining things at tedious length is my favourite thing!
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Dec 31, 2023 08:54
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MikeJF posted:
b) We know exactly how many people weren't Rassilon's type and what happened to them: there's two of them and they're the figures covering their eyes next to Rassilon. So we're talking 1% or less not going along with the plan.
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Dec 31, 2023 08:56
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Warthur posted:b) We know exactly how many people weren't Rassilon's type and what happened to them: there's two of them and they're the figures covering their eyes next to Rassilon. So we're talking 1% or less not going along with the plan. We saw another one earlier and he vapourised her. So he's textually been cleaning house of who he can and intimidating everyone with his murders. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 09:12 on Dec 31, 2023 |
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Dec 31, 2023 09:07
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MikeJF posted:We saw another one earlier and he vapourised her. So he's texturally been cleaning house of who he can and intimidating everyone with his murders. Yeesh, you're right, that detail slid off my brain, probably because of the emphasis given to the two mystery women which then came to absolutely nothing because neither Moffat nor Chibnall were interested in yes-anding that part.
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Dec 31, 2023 09:11
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(You can't really see on screen but one of them was a dude)
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Dec 31, 2023 09:15
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Rewatched the TV movie since it’s been awhile and today is New Year’s Eve, and now I’m giggling to myself thinking about 11’s “the first face this face saw” line before his regeneration and how for 8 that face is Will Sasso. I’m picturing 8 dying in the TARDIS as Will Sasso slowly descends a staircase before touching his face and saying “Frankenstein man… goodnight.”
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Dec 31, 2023 09:48
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Warthur posted:Folks I am glad and grateful you can all explain to me how End of Time and Day of the Doctor fit together and I genuinely don't need another explanation at this stage, my point is more that I shouldn't need you all to explain it because Moffat should have made it clearer. Brief lines about "the High Council are doing something" don't cut it. It had been long enough that Moffat had to consider the fact that there was a whole segment of the public who hadn't even watched The End of Time, so stopping the 50th special dead in its tracks to explain how they fit together in detail probably wasn't the best choice.
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Dec 31, 2023 09:58
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Rewatched the TV movie since it’s been awhile and today is New Year’s Eve, and now I’m giggling to myself thinking about 11’s “the first face this face saw” line before his regeneration and how for 8 that face is Will Sasso. That grizzled old poacher walking down the stairs, stroking the side of Jon Pertwee's face and saying,"Medallion man... if police come by tell them you ne'er saw me near them pheasants what were poached..."
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Dec 31, 2023 10:02
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Jerusalem posted:That grizzled old poacher walking down the stairs, stroking the side of Jon Pertwee's face and saying,"Medallion man... if police come by tell them you ne'er saw me near them pheasants what were poached..." This is all making me very sad that Harry Sullivan wasn't in the room when Pertwee regenerated because I can't think of anyone funnier to be there for Tom.
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Dec 31, 2023 10:14
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Fil5000 posted:This is all making me very sad that Harry Sullivan wasn't in the room when Pertwee regenerated because I can't think of anyone funnier to be there for Tom. A brick hits 6's head, Mel asks what the first thing he saw when he first regenerated was. He goes bright red and immediately regenerates to avoid the conversation.
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Dec 31, 2023 10:23
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Jerusalem posted:A brick hits 6's head, Mel asks what the first thing he saw when he first regenerated was. He goes bright red and immediately regenerates to avoid the conversation. 15 is just exasperated that 10/14 is there AGAIN.
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Dec 31, 2023 10:27
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It never even occurred to me that DotD and EoT were interlinked. And I’ve watched each of them a few times. 
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Dec 31, 2023 12:39
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They never raised it in the text, but always thought the Time Lords being trapped in a bubble when their Whole Thing is exploring/colonising/controlling the universe is a better “punishment” for their wrongdoing than just blinking them out of existence at the push of a button.
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Dec 31, 2023 14:06
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Creature posted:It never even occurred to me that DotD and EoT were interlinked. And I’ve watched each of them a few times. They aren't, really. From the Time Lords' perspective, DotD just takes place shortly after EoT, linked by a line early in the episode; quote:ANDROGAR: The High Council is in emergency session. They have plans of their own. I've had fun watching a "chronological order" series of episodes, following the Doctor and then the Master: Waters Of Mars Day Of The Doctor End Of Time World Enough And Time/The Doctor Falls Dark Water/Death In Heaven E: lol Steven Moffat posted a screenshot of IMDB's top rated episodes on instagram, of which episodes written by him make up the entire top four. I think he's experiencing some low self-esteem this Christmas season 2house2fly fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Dec 31, 2023 |
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Dec 31, 2023 15:00
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Dec 31, 2023 16:01
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:It had been long enough that Moffat had to consider the fact that there was a whole segment of the public who hadn't even watched The End of Time, so stopping the 50th special dead in its tracks to explain how they fit together in detail probably wasn't the best choice. Right, but he clearly thought there was space for a quick exchange of dialogue and I don't think that exchange worked for me in terms of clarifying what the cosmological difference between the plans are. My basic misunderstanding was thinking that Rassilon etc. had kind of put Gallifrey into pocket dimensional storage already, rather than shifting it in time from the last moments of the Time War to present day Earth orbit, so an exchsnge along the lines of "We've had reports of some sort of massive time-shift, a wobble in our galactic coordinates..." "It's something to do with the High Council's plan. Apparently they failed..." would have taken no more or less time but would have helped me immensely. EDIT: Also if you want something accessible to people who've not got a strong grasp on continuity, you... don't make an episode where the A-plot is absolutely drenched in continuity and the B-plot is a sequel to a nearly 40 year old story. I think the fundamental missions the episode has of "Celebrate 50 years of the show's past" and "provide a special that people who aren't regular watchers can enjoy" were always going to trip it up and the real failure is the failure to simply pick one lane and stick to it. Warthur fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Dec 31, 2023 |
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Dec 31, 2023 17:07
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Got to The Caretaker in my watchthrough. I appreciate the attempt to examine the tension between anti-militarism and not being a prejudiced rear end in a top hat towards people who may have been in the military in the past but aren't necessarily onboard with that now... but at the same time, I struggle to blame the Doctor for constantly reducing Danny to "ex-soldier" when he has exactly three personality traits, "ex-soldier", "dates Clara", and "teaches maths", and all the narrative weight is resting on the first two. (The fact that Danny uses military-based analogies to explain why he bristles at the Doctor particularly emphasises this; if you want to show that his mindset and outlook and ideology are not solely shaped by his stint in the military, maybe show that his mental horizons are broader than that, you know?)
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Dec 31, 2023 22:47
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Warthur posted:Got to The Caretaker in my watchthrough. I appreciate the attempt to examine the tension between anti-militarism and not being a prejudiced rear end in a top hat towards people who may have been in the military in the past but aren't necessarily onboard with that now... but at the same time, I struggle to blame the Doctor for constantly reducing Danny to "ex-soldier" when he has exactly three personality traits, "ex-soldier", "dates Clara", and "teaches maths", and all the narrative weight is resting on the first two. (The fact that Danny uses military-based analogies to explain why he bristles at the Doctor particularly emphasises this; if you want to show that his mindset and outlook and ideology are not solely shaped by his stint in the military, maybe show that his mental horizons are broader than that, you know?) Danny was awful, Clara was bad enough already by that season and then they just added Danny in to drag her down further. His ending is also rubbish.
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Dec 31, 2023 23:12
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PriorMarcus posted:Danny was awful, Clara was bad enough already by that season and then they just added Danny in to drag her down further. His ending is also rubbish. don't even get me started on CyberBrig
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Jan 1, 2024 00:35
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microscopic Daleks, Cyberman rain, the new specials have got me interested in Doctor Who again but now all the memories of why I stopped watching are coming back lol.
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Jan 1, 2024 01:01
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I watched that episode a few days ago and it made me cry lol
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Jan 1, 2024 01:16
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Just watched the Christmas special. Absolutely wonderful. My girlfriend pointed out that it’s entirely possible that the entire goblins stealing babies thing only happened because he sprinkled salt at the edge of the universe and made superstition real, and I hope that’s true. I’m going to believe it is at least.
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Jan 1, 2024 02:35
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Y'all have good reason to think that and I don't imagine you'll be disappointed on that hunch.
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Jan 1, 2024 02:37
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Someone pointed out that when UNIT takes possession of the Toymaker box they say to store it under salt, so yeah fantasy is reality!
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Jan 1, 2024 02:47
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Warthur posted:Got to The Caretaker in my watchthrough. I appreciate the attempt to examine the tension between anti-militarism and not being a prejudiced rear end in a top hat towards people who may have been in the military in the past but aren't necessarily onboard with that now... but at the same time, I struggle to blame the Doctor for constantly reducing Danny to "ex-soldier" when he has exactly three personality traits, "ex-soldier", "dates Clara", and "teaches maths", and all the narrative weight is resting on the first two. (The fact that Danny uses military-based analogies to explain why he bristles at the Doctor particularly emphasises this; if you want to show that his mindset and outlook and ideology are not solely shaped by his stint in the military, maybe show that his mental horizons are broader than that, you know?) The problem is that as a general construct militaries of some kind have literally always been necessary and useful for every single large organised civilisation in the entire history of the planet, without a single exception. The crimes of the military are not the crimes of soldiers, they're the crimes of the people ordering, training, brainwashing, and sometimes conscripting and even enslaving the soldiers. This gets made extremely awkward by Danny being a black working class man and The Doctor being very heavily coded as an upper class educated intellectual white British man. Horrible genocidal regimes like the Daleks (who are basically nazi stand ins) weren't in fact overthrown or defeated by clever words and plans and pacificism, they were overthrown by soldiers, soldiers of the working class and soldiers who weren't white, especially within the context of Britain, where black and brown soldiers helped win British wars while their populations were starved, enslaved and genocided by the British.
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Jan 1, 2024 03:17
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MarsPearl posted:The problem is that as a general construct militaries of some kind have literally always been necessary and useful for every single large organised civilisation in the entire history of the planet, without a single exception. The crimes of the military are not the crimes of soldiers, they're the crimes of the people ordering, training, brainwashing, and sometimes conscripting and even enslaving the soldiers. This gets made extremely awkward by Danny being a black working class man and The Doctor being very heavily coded as an upper class educated intellectual white British man. Horrible genocidal regimes like the Daleks (who are basically nazi stand ins) weren't in fact overthrown or defeated by clever words and plans and pacificism, they were overthrown by soldiers, soldiers of the working class and soldiers who weren't white, especially within the context of Britain, where black and brown soldiers helped win British wars while their populations were starved, enslaved and genocided by the British. Alternate perspective: The military is used by the state as a form of extraction of value from the global south. In order to convince otherwise sane and non-homicidal human beings to take part in that murderous, ecocidal process of resource extraction, military service offers multiple social and financial benefits within the imperial core. Doctor Who is frankly too soft on the military and far too soft on cops, who regardless of their demographic replicate the military model of resource extraction at home. Becoming a police officer is an extremely effective method of upward economic and social mobility as long as you are willing to brutalize people.
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Jan 1, 2024 07:52
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Rewatched the TV movie since it’s been awhile and today is New Year’s Eve, and now I’m giggling to myself thinking about 11’s “the first face this face saw” line before his regeneration and how for 8 that face is Will Sasso. Oh, you rewatched it too? I showed it at movie night. It's so 90s. I had seen it for the first time last week. So I saw it twice for New Years.
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Jan 1, 2024 08:36
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DoctorWhat posted:Alternate perspective: The military is used by the state as a form of extraction of value from the global south. In order to convince otherwise sane and non-homicidal human beings to take part in that murderous, ecocidal process of resource extraction, military service offers multiple social and financial benefits within the imperial core. 
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Jan 1, 2024 13:47
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DoctorWhat posted:Becoming a police officer is an extremely effective method of upward economic and social mobility as long as you are willing to brutalize people. In the UK at least, being a police officer is not a well paying job that enables an extremely effective method of upward economic and social mobility. It barely falls into the bracket of being an average paying job. I have no idea where you're getting this idea from, but it's not founded in any sort of actual reality. Like any institution, it attracts a wide range of people, many of whom generally want to do good, some who start wanting to good but end up with the sort of deep rooted cynicism that constant contact with the general public will give you, and some who are arseholes who get off on being in one of the few institutions sanctioned to use violence. Again, UK, can't speak to other countries. But since Who is the UK show, I'm assuming that's what your meaning, and the idea that a primary motivation for becoming a police officer here is financial of all things is batshit.
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Jan 1, 2024 14:22
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On the other hand, when it's set on Earth, Doctor Who is usually in London, and the main difference between the Met and American cops is that the Met aren't armed to the teeth yet. Like I'm finding it hard to square these boy scout esque defenders of public safety with the force that tolerated Wayne "four previous counts of indecent exposure and literally nicknamed 'the Rapist' by his fellow officers" Couzens
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Jan 1, 2024 14:38
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DavidCameronsPig posted:In the UK at least, being a police officer is not a well paying job that enables an extremely effective method of upward economic and social mobility. It barely falls into the bracket of being an average paying job. I have no idea where you're getting this idea from, but it's not founded in any sort of actual reality. Here in New York City, police officers live outside the five boroughs and accumulate triple their salary to sit around playing Candy crush on overtime and perform frivolous arrests at the ends of their shifts to further rob our pockets while our schools and libraries are defunded. Meanwhile because they all commute in by car and hold pedestrians and cyclists in contempt, they make our communities unsafe through illegal parking and dangerous driving. Being anywhere near a police precinct is one of the most alienating antisocial depressing experiences you can have in New York City. And New York City cops aren't special.
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Jan 1, 2024 14:43
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Dabir posted:On the other hand, when it's set on Earth, Doctor Who is usually in London, and the main difference between the Met and American cops is that the Met aren't armed to the teeth yet. The met are garbage but whenever they're asked if they want guns they say no, consistently and near unanimously.
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Jan 1, 2024 14:50
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I don't think it's important to the point whether London cops have reached the level of Janissary that American ones have, but the point where a well-meaning teenager can honestly aspire to be a police officer because they want to help people has passed. I don't think we were quite at that point in 2014 when the Danny stuff was on TV, but even then, it wasn't handled particularly well.
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Jan 1, 2024 14:52
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I feel like it's weird to go ACAB against Danny, when there's a more recent companion that literally was a cop. And if what DavidCameronsPig says is at least broadly right, it actually makes some relative level of sense that she was one; Yaz clearly wanted to do right, wanted to be respected for that, and was good at the parts of being a cop that even cop abolitionists recognize that we want, with the social and crisis worker stuff. Not written well, granted, but she's directly there, while Danny's not. Speaking as an Australian, I think our cops are somewhere between the US and UK situations; they're armed (in a country where that's broadly not a given among the populace), they use really lovely shows of force, and in some cities they've got known lovely connections, but they're generally well-disciplined on your average day, don't get much in the way of the basically-military equipment, and I don't think get paid very well or are considered especially high-status. I overall get the vibe that it's still at least loosely plausible to be seen as an aspirational job for a kid that wants to help people if they're not in a marginalized part of society that's probably had poor relationships with the cops, but those days are numbered, and they don't exactly have the 'cool kid' appeal that US cops have. Something's probably gonna change, but it isn't likely to be loud or fast. And it's kinda hard to tell what an anti-police movement looks like when they don't have huge, undeniable flashpoints to rally around. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Jan 1, 2024 |
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Jan 1, 2024 15:09
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DoctorWhat posted:Alternate perspective: The military is used by the state as a form of extraction of value from the global south. In order to convince otherwise sane and non-homicidal human beings to take part in that murderous, ecocidal process of resource extraction, military service offers multiple social and financial benefits within the imperial core.
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Jan 1, 2024 15:14
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Plucky Brit posted:None of this would apply when fighting the Daleks. The Doctor explicitly rejected a soldier who was fighting in a war against a genocidal enemy that wanted to exterminate everything that wasn't them. He was never called out for this bizarre stance. Nah, he pretty much straight up admits to Journey Blue that it's a personal issue.
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Jan 1, 2024 15:18
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Plucky Brit posted:None of this would apply when fighting the Daleks. The Doctor explicitly rejected a soldier who was fighting in a war against a genocidal enemy that wanted to exterminate everything that wasn't them. He was never called out for this bizarre stance. The doctor doesn't want to travel with soldiers because the doctor wants companions who are creative, self-directed, and will challenge him. The entire purpose of military training is to take thinking feeling human beings and turn them into reliable executors of amoral orders.
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Jan 1, 2024 15:20
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